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making new copper look aged green



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 26th 10, 02:04 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 4,938
Default making new copper look aged green

How do you get new copper to look naturaly aged green and stable,
Verdigris. I have used acids Hydrochloric, Hydroflouric, and find the
Verdigris is a top layer and sometimes bluer or darker green than
naturaly aged copper.

I have found Toilet bowl cleaner that has Hydrochloric acid is great
on old black copper gutters that wont fully turn green, as its already
buffered and gelled so it stays wet and doesnt drip on you as you
brush it on, and safer to use.

I have fumed copper in a heated tub but the results are darker and
more green than natural aging and the finish flakes off. I have heard
to sand and or heat the copper with a propane torch and that even Pee
is great, this I willl try next. There is a process to make copper
green and stable but I dont know it. Revere copper does it. Im on the
other side of the pond so excuse my terminology, this week will be
back to 0f degree, a bit cold.
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  #2  
Old January 26th 10, 02:39 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 5,162
Default making new copper look aged green

On 26 Jan, 01:04, ransley wrote:
* How do you get new copper to look naturaly aged green and stable,


You find a copy of "The Colouring, Bronzing, and Patination of Metals"
and then spend ages studying it.

Copper goes either brown(ish) or green(ish) with most reagents (so buy
some nitrate-based stuff). Much depends on the copper alloy, the
reagent (obviously) and the process (time / temperature / agitation)
you use to apply it. Getting nice colours is one thing, getting
consistent results, stable results or predictable results is quite
another. Japanese work uses the same reagent repeatedly and varies the
alloy instead. This is allegedly an easier route to reliable
consistency (although some of their alloys are arsenical and quite
toxic).

Avoid chlorides. That's not patina, it's corrosion - and it's very far
from stable or robust.

For simple results, buy a commercial bottle of Green Goop or Brown
Goop. You'll get better results than anything short of serious
investment in materials and techniques.
  #3  
Old January 26th 10, 02:47 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 4,938
Default making new copper look aged green

On Jan 25, 7:39*pm, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 26 Jan, 01:04, ransley wrote:

* How do you get new copper to look naturaly aged green and stable,


You find a copy of "The Colouring, Bronzing, and Patination of Metals"
and then spend ages studying it.

Copper goes either brown(ish) or green(ish) with most reagents (so buy
some nitrate-based stuff). Much depends on the copper alloy, the
reagent (obviously) and the process (time / temperature / agitation)
you use to apply it. Getting nice colours is one thing, getting
consistent results, stable *results or predictable results is quite
another. Japanese work uses the same reagent repeatedly and varies the
alloy instead. This is allegedly an easier route to reliable
consistency (although some of their alloys are arsenical and quite
toxic).

Avoid chlorides. That's not patina, it's corrosion - and it's very far
from stable or robust.

For simple results, buy a commercial bottle of Green Goop or Brown
Goop. You'll get better results than anything short of serious
investment in materials and techniques.


Nitrate base, do you mean plant fertilizer. Green Goop, Brown Goop,
what is in the products, I never heard of them in the US, I will try
google on the goop.
  #4  
Old January 26th 10, 06:30 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 28
Default making new copper look aged green

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:04:01 -0800 (PST), ransley
wrote:

How do you get new copper to look naturaly aged green and stable,
Verdigris. I have used acids Hydrochloric, Hydroflouric, and find the
Verdigris is a top layer and sometimes bluer or darker green than
naturaly aged copper.


You might somthing of interest he

http://asuwlink.uwyo.edu/~metal/patinas.html

I've also tried fuming the copper in amonnia.
--
Nige Danton
email: swop the obvious for g_m_a_i_l

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
  #5  
Old January 26th 10, 06:33 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 28
Default making new copper look aged green

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:30:50 +0700, Nige Danton
wrote:

Also maybe search rec.crafts.metalworking for more ideas and tips.
--
Nige Danton
email: swop the obvious for g_m_a_i_l

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
  #6  
Old January 26th 10, 11:38 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 5,162
Default making new copper look aged green

On 26 Jan, 05:30, Nige Danton wrote:

I've also tried fuming the copper in amonnia.


Ammonia fuming is great, but it tends to give a mild "antique" patina,
rather than a deliberate verdigris. Works very well on brass. Didn't
we discuss that recently? The trick is to keep the metal out of the
liquid ammonia, otherwise it develops splotches. The usual method is a
big Tupperware box, with ammonia in the bottom, then a layer of wood
shavings, with the metal above.
  #7  
Old January 26th 10, 11:46 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 5,162
Default making new copper look aged green

On 26 Jan, 01:47, ransley wrote:

Nitrate base, do you mean plant fertilizer.


No, I generally mean ferric nitrate, the base for a great many
patination recipes. Also nitric acid.

You're unlikely to get far "trying out brews with plant fertiliser".
In particular you'll find yourself with a weak mixture that acts very
slowly. This is a bad thing. In particular, you might think it looks
good but the stuff is so slow acting you don't realise it's still
working - a week later it has turned to ugly crud. This is
particularly a problem with chlorides. Washing and cleaning
afterwards, maybe even deliberate neutralising, can be as important as
the patination itself.

This looks like a decent online starting point
http://www.sciencecompany.com/patina...naformulas.htm

Then of course there's Ganoksin for serious metalsmithing.
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nena...a-formulas.htm



Green Goop, Brown Goop what is in the products,


No idea. Many chemicals used in metal finishing (especially plating)
are obscure and difficult to find, then only used in small doses. It's
too awkward to buy your own, so you're better buying a ready-mixed
patination fluid. This still applies, even if you're an industrial
chemist (unless you can sneak through a 40 gallon drum of something
that you only need a teaspoon of).

Find your local finishing supplies people (Rustin or Liberon in the
UK) and check their catalogues. It does work better if you buy the
ready-mixed potions, then follow the recipes carefully.

  #8  
Old January 26th 10, 12:20 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 25
Default making new copper look aged green


"ransley" wrote in message
...
How do you get new copper to look naturaly aged green and stable,
Verdigris. I have used acids Hydrochloric, Hydroflouric, and find the
Verdigris is a top layer and sometimes bluer or darker green than
naturaly aged copper.

I have found Toilet bowl cleaner that has Hydrochloric acid is great
on old black copper gutters that wont fully turn green, as its already
buffered and gelled so it stays wet and doesnt drip on you as you
brush it on, and safer to use.

I have fumed copper in a heated tub but the results are darker and
more green than natural aging and the finish flakes off. I have heard
to sand and or heat the copper with a propane torch and that even Pee
is great, this I willl try next. There is a process to make copper
green and stable but I dont know it. Revere copper does it. Im on the
other side of the pond so excuse my terminology, this week will be
back to 0f degree, a bit cold.


I have experience of this although unintentionally. I once kept a bottle of
concentrated hydrochloric acid under the kitchen sink. Over time, the cap
of the bottle degraded allowing hydrogen chloride gas to escape from the
bottle (the acid is basically this gas dissolved in water). All the copper
piping went green (copper chloride).

I suggest you get some concentrated hycrochloric acid (available from Robert
Dyas - sold as drain cleaner) and leave the copper item in a small chamber
with an open container of hydrochloric acid for a few days.

Warning: The gas is very harmful to your lungs and other moist membranes so
make sure you do this somewhere safe.


  #9  
Old January 26th 10, 01:12 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 268
Default making new copper look aged green

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:04:01 -0800 (PST), ransley wrote:
How do you get new copper to look naturaly aged green and stable,
Verdigris. I have used acids Hydrochloric, Hydroflouric, and find the
Verdigris is a top layer and sometimes bluer or darker green than
naturaly aged copper.

I have found Toilet bowl cleaner that has Hydrochloric acid is great
on old black copper gutters that wont fully turn green, as its already
buffered and gelled so it stays wet and doesnt drip on you as you
brush it on, and safer to use.

I have fumed copper in a heated tub but the results are darker and
more green than natural aging and the finish flakes off. I have heard
to sand and or heat the copper with a propane torch and that even Pee
is great, this I willl try next. There is a process to make copper
green and stable but I dont know it. Revere copper does it. Im on the
other side of the pond so excuse my terminology, this week will be
back to 0f degree, a bit cold.


Got any cow-pats nearby?
  #10  
Old January 26th 10, 10:33 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 503
Default making new copper look aged green

The message
from ransley contains these words:

How do you get new copper to look naturaly aged green and stable,


Horse urine was the traditional material used in Eastern Canada where
there were and are a lot of copper roofs in the Montréal - Ottawa area.
 




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