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Default [Borderline OT] Scrap Copper prices

I have had a pile of scrap pipes and fittings accumulating behind my garage
for a few years. Maybe 15-20 kilos.

Took it to the non ferrous metal merchant yesterday and he gave me 55 quid!
Staggering. I shall be having an unscheduled curry this weekend as a direct
result.

I must have the same amount of copper again if I dig around. There's good
value in those old pipes.

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On 22 Jan, 15:40, "Vortex4" wrote:
I have had a pile of scrap pipes and fittings accumulating behind my garage
for a few years. *Maybe 15-20 kilos.

Took it to the non ferrous metal merchant yesterday and he gave me 55 quid!
Staggering. *I shall be having an unscheduled curry this weekend as a direct
result.

I must have the same amount of copper again if I dig around. *There's good
value in those old pipes.


China is hoovering resources back up to pre-crash levels:

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/co...ge.html#5years
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"Bolted" wrote in message
...
On 22 Jan, 15:40, "Vortex4" wrote:
I have had a pile of scrap pipes and fittings accumulating behind my
garage
for a few years. Maybe 15-20 kilos.

Took it to the non ferrous metal merchant yesterday and he gave me 55
quid!
Staggering. I shall be having an unscheduled curry this weekend as a
direct
result.

I must have the same amount of copper again if I dig around. There's good
value in those old pipes.


China is hoovering resources back up to pre-crash levels:

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/co...ge.html#5years

crikey,

3.3 USD per pound = ~7.25 USD per kg = ~ 4.50 quid per kg

You know I was looking in Homebase the other day and was surprised at the
(low) price of copper pipe compared to B&Q. IIRC about 10% cheaper.

Must be that Homebase stock is slow moving.

It's clear that copper prices are 10% up in the last month:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/f...hree_month.stm

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On 22/01/2010 15:40, Vortex4 wrote:
I have had a pile of scrap pipes and fittings accumulating behind my
garage for a few years. Maybe 15-20 kilos.

Took it to the non ferrous metal merchant yesterday and he gave me 55
quid! Staggering. I shall be having an unscheduled curry this weekend as
a direct result.

I must have the same amount of copper again if I dig around. There's
good value in those old pipes.


http://www.letsrecycle.com/prices/metals/

Be advised that if you fancy weighing in your copper cables and you
notice that copper wire is £3800/tonne whereas 45% insulated cable is
"only" £1200/tonne don't be tempted to put your cable on the bonfire to
burn the insulation off. It's illegal[1][2] to do so and the recycler
will not be happy either, as he could get into trouble for receiving and
will give you a lower price than you might expect, if anything at all.
Insulated copper wire is recycled *not* by burning, but by grinding the
cables up and floating the plastic off.


[1]Belfast Telegraph. "The remains of a fire at the site [...] suggested
it had been used to extract copper from the wire in an illegal process
that can release noxious chemicals into the environment. The DoE
confirmed that it is illegal to burn waste in this way as it is likely
to be harmful to the environment under the Clean Air Act."


[2] RSC Chemistry World. "Incineration of e-waste also produces
potentially hazardous by-products, mainly dioxins, furans and polycyclic
aromatic hydrocarbons, caused by burning PVC plastic and wire
insulation. Materials containing PVC are precursors to polychlorinated
dibenzo-p-dioxins and dibenzofurans (PCDD/Fs). These are classified as
persistent organic pollutants (POPs) under the Stockholm Convention, a
global treaty drawn up to protect human health and the environment. To
make matters worse, according to researchers from Tohoku University in
Japan, copper acts as a catalyst for the formation of PCDD/Fs during the
combustion of PVC. So burning all that PVC-insulated copper wiring, may
lead to even higher emissions of PCDD/Fs."

Cheers,
DaveyOz
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Default [Borderline OT] Scrap Copper prices

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:10:18 +0000, Dave Osborne
wrote:

Be advised that if you fancy weighing in your copper cables and you
notice that copper wire is £3800/tonne whereas 45% insulated cable is
"only" £1200/tonne don't be tempted to put your cable on the bonfire to
burn the insulation off. It's illegal[1][2] to do so and the recycler
will not be happy either, as he could get into trouble for receiving and
will give you a lower price than you might expect, if anything at all.
Insulated copper wire is recycled *not* by burning, but by grinding the
cables up and floating the plastic off.


So is it illegal to strip it out manually ..albeit possibly
impractical for anyhting less than small amounts .


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In article , Vortex4
scribeth thus

"Bolted" wrote in message
...
On 22 Jan, 15:40, "Vortex4" wrote:
I have had a pile of scrap pipes and fittings accumulating behind my
garage
for a few years. Maybe 15-20 kilos.

Took it to the non ferrous metal merchant yesterday and he gave me 55
quid!
Staggering. I shall be having an unscheduled curry this weekend as a
direct
result.

I must have the same amount of copper again if I dig around. There's good
value in those old pipes.


China is hoovering resources back up to pre-crash levels:

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/co...ge.html#5years

crikey,

3.3 USD per pound = ~7.25 USD per kg = ~ 4.50 quid per kg

You know I was looking in Homebase the other day and was surprised at the
(low) price of copper pipe compared to B&Q. IIRC about 10% cheaper.

Must be that Homebase stock is slow moving.

It's clear that copper prices are 10% up in the last month:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/f...modities/11638
/three_month.stm


You'll know when prices are on the up .. your lights will go out, phone
will cut off and the trains will stop running as Mr P Pikey and his
mates are on the nick again;(...
--
Tony Sayer




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On 22 Jan, 18:15, Usenet Nutter
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:10:18 +0000, Dave Osborne

wrote:
Be advised that if you fancy weighing in your copper cables and you
notice that copper wire is £3800/tonne whereas 45% insulated cable is
"only" £1200/tonne don't be tempted to put your cable on the bonfire to
burn the insulation off. It's illegal[1][2] to do so and the recycler
will not be happy either, as he could get into trouble for receiving and
will give you a lower price than you might expect, if anything at all.
Insulated copper wire is recycled *not* by burning, but by grinding the
cables up and floating the plastic off.


So is it illegal to strip it out manually ..albeit possibly
impractical for anyhting less than small amounts .


It used to be a major strand of Remploy's business, I don't know
whether it still is.
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On 22 Jan, 18:10, Dave Osborne wrote:

Be advised that if you fancy weighing in your copper cables and you
notice that copper wire is £3800/tonne whereas 45% insulated cable is
"only" £1200/tonne don't be tempted to put your cable on the bonfire to
burn the insulation off. It's illegal[1][2] to do so


Mr.Pikey and his many inbred relatives break into building sites and
burn the cable reels on site. They return later and collect the metal;
less weight for him to move in his unregistered Transit. I don't think
the release of hazardous toxins is high up on his list of priorities.
I don't think the council jobsworths bother them much, too busy
inspecting builders' vans for illicitly transported waste or handing
out littering tickets to schoolkids. Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?

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"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On 22 Jan, 18:10, Dave Osborne wrote:

Be advised that if you fancy weighing in your copper cables and you
notice that copper wire is £3800/tonne whereas 45% insulated cable is
"only" £1200/tonne don't be tempted to put your cable on the bonfire to
burn the insulation off. It's illegal[1][2] to do so


Mr.Pikey and his many inbred relatives break into building sites and
burn the cable reels on site. They return later and collect the metal;
less weight for him to move in his unregistered Transit. I don't think
the release of hazardous toxins is high up on his list of priorities.
I don't think the council jobsworths bother them much, too busy
inspecting builders' vans for illicitly transported waste or handing
out littering tickets to schoolkids. Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


They should burn LSF (or is it now LSHF) cables instead.

Adam

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Onetap wrote:
On 22 Jan, 18:10, Dave Osborne wrote:

Be advised that if you fancy weighing in your copper cables and you
notice that copper wire is £3800/tonne whereas 45% insulated cable is
"only" £1200/tonne don't be tempted to put your cable on the bonfire
to burn the insulation off. It's illegal[1][2] to do so


Mr.Pikey and his many inbred relatives break into building sites and
burn the cable reels on site. They return later and collect the metal;
less weight for him to move in his unregistered Transit. I don't think
the release of hazardous toxins is high up on his list of priorities.
I don't think the council jobsworths bother them much, too busy
inspecting builders' vans for illicitly transported waste or handing
out littering tickets to schoolkids. Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Too true. I'm aware of a(n) utility co. fully compliant with licensing that
was receiving weekly compliance visits from the Environment Agency at a
particular site for many years where there had never been any infringement
and any would have posed minimal risk to the environment. Within yards of
that Depot, Mr Pikey would camp dumping all sorts of crap all of which
constituted more than one offence and definite damage to the environment -
never visited. Too risky!




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On 22/01/2010 20:39, Bolted wrote:
On 22 Jan, 18:15, Usenet Nutter
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:10:18 +0000, Dave Osborne

wrote:
Be advised that if you fancy weighing in your copper cables and you
notice that copper wire is £3800/tonne whereas 45% insulated cable is
"only" £1200/tonne don't be tempted to put your cable on the bonfire to
burn the insulation off. It's illegal[1][2] to do so and the recycler
will not be happy either, as he could get into trouble for receiving and
will give you a lower price than you might expect, if anything at all.
Insulated copper wire is recycled *not* by burning, but by grinding the
cables up and floating the plastic off.


So is it illegal to strip it out manually ..albeit possibly
impractical for anyhting less than small amounts .



It's not illegal to strip out manually; just don't set fire to the
insulation or dissolve it off with solvent.

The insulation can go to landfill.
The bright copper wire you strip out will nett you top dollar at the
scrappie.

It just depends what cable you have. If you have a lot of computer cable
(which has very little copper in) be sure to cut the plugs off, but
don't bother to strip it.

If you have offcuts of SWA then strip it manually to separate the steel,
copper and plastics.

You can theoretically weigh the steel in for £120/tonne, but unless
you've got a lot of it (at least 100kg) you'll get practically nowt for it.

Brass is good also. If you're doing any plumbing, keep any taps or
compression fittings as well as copper. You can weigh it all in.
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On Jan 22, 10:13 pm, Dave Osborne wrote:
On 22/01/2010 20:39, Bolted wrote:



On 22 Jan, 18:15, Usenet Nutter
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:10:18 +0000, Dave Osborne


wrote:
Be advised that if you fancy weighing in your copper cables and you
notice that copper wire is £3800/tonne whereas 45% insulated cable is
"only" £1200/tonne don't be tempted to put your cable on the bonfire to
burn the insulation off. It's illegal[1][2] to do so and the recycler
will not be happy either, as he could get into trouble for receiving and
will give you a lower price than you might expect, if anything at all..
Insulated copper wire is recycled *not* by burning, but by grinding the
cables up and floating the plastic off.


So is it illegal to strip it out manually ..albeit possibly
impractical for anyhting less than small amounts .


It's not illegal to strip out manually; just don't set fire to the
insulation or dissolve it off with solvent.

The insulation can go to landfill.
The bright copper wire you strip out will nett you top dollar at the
scrappie.

It just depends what cable you have. If you have a lot of computer cable
(which has very little copper in) be sure to cut the plugs off, but
don't bother to strip it.

If you have offcuts of SWA then strip it manually to separate the steel,
copper and plastics.

You can theoretically weigh the steel in for £120/tonne, but unless
you've got a lot of it (at least 100kg) you'll get practically nowt for it.

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On 22/01/2010 22:18, JimK wrote:
On Jan 22, 10:13 pm, Dave wrote:
On 22/01/2010 20:39, Bolted wrote:



On 22 Jan, 18:15, Usenet Nutter
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:10:18 +0000, Dave Osborne


wrote:
Be advised that if you fancy weighing in your copper cables and you
notice that copper wire is £3800/tonne whereas 45% insulated cable is
"only" £1200/tonne don't be tempted to put your cable on the bonfire to
burn the insulation off. It's illegal[1][2] to do so and the recycler
will not be happy either, as he could get into trouble for receiving and
will give you a lower price than you might expect, if anything at all.
Insulated copper wire is recycled *not* by burning, but by grinding the
cables up and floating the plastic off.


So is it illegal to strip it out manually ..albeit possibly
impractical for anyhting less than small amounts .


It's not illegal to strip out manually; just don't set fire to the
insulation or dissolve it off with solvent.

The insulation can go to landfill.
The bright copper wire you strip out will nett you top dollar at the
scrappie.

It just depends what cable you have. If you have a lot of computer cable
(which has very little copper in) be sure to cut the plugs off, but
don't bother to strip it.

If you have offcuts of SWA then strip it manually to separate the steel,
copper and plastics.

You can theoretically weigh the steel in for £120/tonne, but unless
you've got a lot of it (at least 100kg) you'll get practically nowt for it.

Brass is good also. If you're doing any plumbing, keep any taps or
compression fittings as well as copper. You can weigh it all in.


what's brass going in for these days?

JimK


http://www.letsrecycle.com/prices/metals/

Notionally two grand a tonne.
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In message , Vortex4
writes
I have had a pile of scrap pipes and fittings accumulating behind my
garage for a few years. Maybe 15-20 kilos.

Took it to the non ferrous metal merchant yesterday and he gave me 55
quid! Staggering. I shall be having an unscheduled curry this weekend
as a direct result.

I must have the same amount of copper again if I dig around. There's
good value in those old pipes.


No semi-formed baths knocking around then ?

--
geoff
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"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con have
one.



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In article ,
tony sayer writes:

You'll know when prices are on the up .. your lights will go out, phone
will cut off and the trains will stop running as Mr P Pikey and his
mates are on the nick again;(...


not forgetting all that nice new gas pipework installed all around
the outside of your house...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tony sayer writes:

You'll know when prices are on the up .. your lights will go out, phone
will cut off and the trains will stop running as Mr P Pikey and his
mates are on the nick again;(...


not forgetting all that nice new gas pipework installed all around
the outside of your house...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]



And they do take it.

3m of 22mm pipe was removed from the external wall of a house I was working
at just before Christmas. At least they turned the gas off before pinching
the pipe.

Adam

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"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"ARWadsworth" writes:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tony sayer writes:

You'll know when prices are on the up .. your lights will go out, phone
will cut off and the trains will stop running as Mr P Pikey and his
mates are on the nick again;(...

not forgetting all that nice new gas pipework installed all around
the outside of your house...


And they do take it.

3m of 22mm pipe was removed from the external wall of a house I was
working
at just before Christmas.


It had become a big problem just before the copper price crashed
at the beginning of the recession, and will surely return again.
Actually, I don't think such an installation should be permitted
in copper.



Options?

At least they turned the gas off before pinching
the pipe.


That's unusual.


Probably smoking a cig!

Adam

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In article ,
"ARWadsworth" writes:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"ARWadsworth" writes:

3m of 22mm pipe was removed from the external wall of a house I was
working
at just before Christmas.


It had become a big problem just before the copper price crashed
at the beginning of the recession, and will surely return again.
Actually, I don't think such an installation should be permitted
in copper.


Options?


Route the pipework inside, or
use pipework which is strong enough to resist vandalism and not worth
nicking, such as iorn, attached strongly enough to prevent yanking off, or
route copper outside only where it's well out of reach or the location
physically secured against public access.

Maybe use of auto-shutoff valves where pipework is located outside.
(They're commonly used in France, but I think they require increasing
the gas pressure by 1-2 mBar.)


--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 11:24:43 GMT, ARWadsworth wrote:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tony sayer writes:

You'll know when prices are on the up .. your lights will go out, phone
will cut off and the trains will stop running as Mr P Pikey and his
mates are on the nick again;(...


not forgetting all that nice new gas pipework installed all around
the outside of your house...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]



And they do take it.

3m of 22mm pipe was removed from the external wall of a house I was working
at just before Christmas. At least they turned the gas off before pinching
the pipe.

Adam


A guy I worked with 18 months ago had his unoccupied and part renovated
house stripped. They took all the copper pipework, the bathroom suite and
the still packed kitchen units. They did it very neatly, turning both water
and gas off and with no other damage or mess, even carefully removing the
back window without damage, to get everything out to their van. Neighbours
thought they were legit workmen!

SteveW


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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home"
saying something like:



"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con have
one.


Bloke should have been given a medal, not a sentence.
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On 23 Jan, 20:55, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

Bloke should have been given a medal, not a sentence.


Yawn. Tell that to the jury who had a way better picture of what
happened than you do.
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Bolted
saying something like:

On 23 Jan, 20:55, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

Bloke should have been given a medal, not a sentence.


Yawn. Tell that to the jury who had a way better picture of what
happened than you do.


Oh yes, bunch of ****s.
And **** you.
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On 23 Jan, 23:38, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Bolted
saying something like:

On 23 Jan, 20:55, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:


And **** you.


You may wish and long, but that's all it will ever be.
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"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con
have one.


ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun without a
licence.

Adam



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On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 23:38:22 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Bolted
saying something like:

On 23 Jan, 20:55, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

Bloke should have been given a medal, not a sentence.


Yawn. Tell that to the jury who had a way better picture of what
happened than you do.


Oh yes, bunch of ****s.
And **** you.


He was quite rightly convicted, as the law says that you can defend
yourself, property and others, but not chase after someone and beat them
up. On the other hand, it may be that the law is wrong and should be
changed - I certainly would feel that anyone who had endured such threats
and violence to themselves and their family members, particularly in their
own home, would be in such a state that whatever action they took would be
a perfectly natural reaction, without the intervention of conscious thought
and no-one should be considered guilty for carrying out instinctive,
natural reactions to such provocation. After such an attack/threat
scenario, the brain activity and chemical changes due to threat could take
some time to subside. It would also be perfectly legitimate to chase the
intruders to apprehend them and considering their previous threats, it is
surely justifiable to attack them to be sure that they are rendered
completely incapable of fighting back and harming you.

SteveW
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On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 11:18:02 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

not forgetting all that nice new gas pipework installed all around
the outside of your house...


The current issue of PHPI (the free rag in plumbers' merchants) has an
article on DENSO tape pointing out that it's a deterrent to the pikey
brigade: makes the pipe look like it could just be wrapped steel, and if
they do try to have a go it's so godawful gungey ....



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

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"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home"
saying something like:



"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con
have
one.


Bloke should have been given a medal, not a sentence.


He should have been given five years just like anyone else with an illegal
firearm should be.
That's before he shot someone.

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"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con
have one.


ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun without
a licence.


It was worse than that.. he used a weapon that you can't get a license for.
And he obtained it with the intention to kill.

Adam


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"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con
have one.


ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun
without a licence.


It was worse than that.. he used a weapon that you can't get a license
for.
And he obtained it with the intention to kill.


It was only a pikey that he killed.

Adam



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dennis@home wrote:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Onetap" wrote in message
...


Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a
con have one.


ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun
without a licence.


It was worse than that.. he used a weapon that you can't get a license for.
And he obtained it with the intention to kill.


That is a libellous statement Dennis.

You cannot know his intentions.

The legal facts are that he was in possession of a pump action shotgun,
for which he had no license, and which is not in fact licensable in this
country as far as I know.and he used it to kill and wound two trespassers.

Whether or not he was morally justified, is an open question.

Martin was jailed for life for the murder of Fred Barras, with 10 years
to run concurrently for the wounding offence and a further 12 months for
*possession* of an illegal firearm.

He was NOT convicted of the charge of 'possessing a Winchester
pump-action shotgun with intent to endanger life'

he was NEVER charged with 'intent to kill'

I hope you have good lawyers.


Adam


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ARWadsworth wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Onetap" wrote in message
...


Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a
con have one.

ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun
without a licence.


It was worse than that.. he used a weapon that you can't get a license
for.
And he obtained it with the intention to kill.


It was only a pikey that he killed.


And that also is a statement that could land you in trouble.

Adam

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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

It was only a pikey that he killed.


And that also is a statement that could land you in trouble.


****ing thieving pikey *******s. Didn't kill enough of them, if you ask
me.
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The legal facts are that he was in possession of a pump action shotgun,
for which he had no license, and which is not in fact licensable in this
country as far as I know.and he used it to kill and wound two trespassers.


To be clear, pump action shotguns are quite legal in GB, so long as you
have a Shotgun Certificate, or a Firearms Certificate.
There are not many around as they are crap - they were superceded many
years ago by the semi-auto shotgun, which does the same thing but
automatically.

Martin was jailed for life for the murder of Fred Barras, with 10 years
to run concurrently for the wounding offence and a further 12 months for
*possession* of an illegal firearm.


The firearm was only 'illegal' as he didnt have a certificate for it, it
wasnt illegal in itself, anyone else with the relevant cert. could keep
it lawfully.

Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
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In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus


"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
.. .
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home"
saying something like:



"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con
have
one.


Bloke should have been given a medal, not a sentence.


He should have been given five years just like anyone else with an illegal
firearm should be.
That's before he shot someone.


Don't live out that way I presume then Dennis?..
--
Tony Sayer






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In message , "dennis@home"
writes
Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a
con have one.


ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun
without a licence.


It was worse than that.. he used a weapon that you can't get a license for.
And he obtained it with the intention to kill.


Without wishing to condone shooting an escaping burglar....

Unless the police firearms dept. had reason to withhold a licence, no
farmer owning or controlling land would have problems obtaining a
conventional shotgun and ammunition.

AFAIR no publicity was given to when the weapon was obtained or for what
purpose. The original act controlling the possession of shotguns dates
from 1968 so I suppose Martin could have owned a weapon prior to that
date which was *not licensable*. A multi-shot pump action version
perhaps. ISTR some limit on the number of rounds stored in the magazine?

For obvious reasons these are excluded but, in the circumstances, not
hugely more dangerous than a double barrel 12 bore. I would be more
concerned if the ammunition used was SSG or buckshot as used in American
thrillers.

regards




--
Tim Lamb
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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con
have one.

ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun
without a licence.


It was worse than that.. he used a weapon that you can't get a license
for.
And he obtained it with the intention to kill.


That is a libellous statement Dennis.

You cannot know his intentions.


Oh, you think he obtained a pump action shotgun to hunt rabbits, illegally.


The legal facts are that he was in possession of a pump action shotgun,
for which he had no license, and which is not in fact licensable in this
country as far as I know.and he used it to kill and wound two trespassers.

Whether or not he was morally justified, is an open question.


The hell it is.
Murder is never morally justified, it wouldn't be murder if it were
justified.


Martin was jailed for life for the murder of Fred Barras, with 10 years to
run concurrently for the wounding offence and a further 12 months for
*possession* of an illegal firearm.

He was NOT convicted of the charge of 'possessing a Winchester pump-action
shotgun with intent to endanger life'

he was NEVER charged with 'intent to kill'

I hope you have good lawyers.


You are stupid.



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dennis@home wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Onetap" wrote in message
...


Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a
con have one.

ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun
without a licence.

It was worse than that.. he used a weapon that you can't get a
license for.
And he obtained it with the intention to kill.


That is a libellous statement Dennis.

You cannot know his intentions.


Oh, you think he obtained a pump action shotgun to hunt rabbits, illegally.

unlikely. poor weapon for rabbits.

Geese or wildfowl, is another matter entirely. having several in the
magazine can really make a difference when a skein of geese come over.


The legal facts are that he was in possession of a pump action
shotgun, for which he had no license, and which is not in fact
licensable in this country as far as I know.and he used it to kill and
wound two trespassers.

Whether or not he was morally justified, is an open question.


The hell it is.
Murder is never morally justified, it wouldn't be murder if it were
justified.


In which case T Bliar is a crim. Since he most definitely ordered the
killings of many many people by going to war..

The state has legalised deliberate premeditated killing in many areas an
times.

Warfare.
Execution

to name but two.


Martin was jailed for life for the murder of Fred Barras, with 10
years to run concurrently for the wounding offence and a further 12
months for *possession* of an illegal firearm.

He was NOT convicted of the charge of 'possessing a Winchester
pump-action shotgun with intent to endanger life'

he was NEVER charged with 'intent to kill'

I hope you have good lawyers.


You are stupid.


No, precise. Which is what your lawyers will need to be to advise you.



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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Where's Tony Martin when you need
him?


Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con
have one.

ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun
without a licence.

It was worse than that.. he used a weapon that you can't get a license
for.
And he obtained it with the intention to kill.


It was only a pikey that he killed.


And that also is a statement that could land you in trouble.


Trouble with who?

Adam

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"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes
Hopefully somewhere he can't get an illegal firearm.
There are enough criminals with illegal firearms without letting a con
have one.

ISTR one of the resons he was convicted was that he used a shotgun
without a licence.


It was worse than that.. he used a weapon that you can't get a license
for.
And he obtained it with the intention to kill.


Without wishing to condone shooting an escaping burglar....

Unless the police firearms dept. had reason to withhold a licence, no
farmer owning or controlling land would have problems obtaining a
conventional shotgun and ammunition.


See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Ma...inal_incidents


Adam

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