[whiskeyomega]

Sorry its me again. I did ask about these three or four years ago.

In the end we got a Robinson Willey 2.4 kw heater which works ok and is on
in my hallway because he wont allow us to have the bedroom ones on. The
trouble is they no longer make them it seems not in the size I need now.

Anyway, scrooge husband is threatening to turn off a storage heater ( the
only big one I have on in fact) because he says its broken ( which it
probably is ) and running away with the electric.

This is the eco warrior who thinks we have to run the house ( all electric
and no options!) in these freezing conditions for £50 a month. We are
already down to 10 - 14 degrees around the house including the living rooms.
I cant stand it any colder.

So anyway I have asked for a new storage heater for Christmas . I was having
a dehumidifier for the kitchen which is still sopping wet but the heater
has to come first.

My problem , what sort would be best value for money? Should I just get the
cheapest? Are they all essentially the same? It has to be a 3.4KW to
replace the one we have ( he will fit it if I get it - he fitted the last
one). It will be an online purchase because I found it was cheaper than any
local outlets .

Thanks for any advice on this.

[whiskeyomega]

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 21 Dec, 09:19, "whiskeyomega" wrote:


It may be worth checking, if your heaters are controlled by a
timeclock, that the timeclock is set at the correct time, otherwise it
will be charging your storage heaters up at the expensive daytime
rate.

No there is nothing wrong with the clocks. Its just broken. We had the same
problem with the other one we replaced. It probably isnt *costing* as much
as he maintains but there you go.



Condensation is caused by lack of insulation / heat / ventilation and
excess moisture. An extractor fan for the kitchen would probably help
a lot.

He wont fit one so I have to get a dehumidifier.

My problem , what sort would be best value for money? Should I just get
the
cheapest? Are they all essentially the same? It has to be a 3.4KW to
replace the one we have ( he will fit it if I get it - he fitted the last
one). It will be an online purchase because I found it was cheaper than
any
local outlets .

Pretty all much of a muchness.

Do you know anything about a make called " Elnur" then? That seems to be the
cheapest. or a Sunhouse ( know they used to make electric fires many years
ago).

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:38:09 -0800 (PST), Owain wrote:

It may be worth checking, if your heaters are controlled by a
timeclock, that the timeclock is set at the correct time, otherwise it
will be charging your storage heaters up at the expensive daytime
rate.

Not unless there is a fault with the meter. When the time switch
operates to turn on the heaters it also switches the meter to count
units at the cheap rate. It doesn't matter what actual time of day
that the heaters are on, when they are all power used will be counted
at the cheap rate.

Condensation is caused by lack of insulation / heat / ventilation and
excess moisture. An extractor fan for the kitchen would probably help
a lot.

In this case lack of heat seems to be the most likely 'cause, though
if the gutters are leaking down the walls that won't help.

Eco warrior husband needs a good "talking to" not having the place at
a decent temperature is stuoid both form the damage to building
(damp) and damage to your health. Both are young and own the current
property, I can't see that moving to somewhere with a £500/month
service charge plus bills makes any sense what so ever. £500.month
would pay for a lot of maintenace upgrading of the current place. But
it is a complicated picture, income level now a future when both are
retired, any children (think inhertitance tax, maybe transfer the
property to them now to remove it from your combined estate).

--
Cheers
Dave.

[John]

"whiskeyomega" wrote in message
...

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 21 Dec, 09:19, "whiskeyomega" wrote:


It may be worth checking, if your heaters are controlled by a
timeclock, that the timeclock is set at the correct time, otherwise it
will be charging your storage heaters up at the expensive daytime
rate.

No there is nothing wrong with the clocks. Its just broken. We had the
same problem with the other one we replaced. It probably isnt *costing*
as much as he maintains but there you go.



Condensation is caused by lack of insulation / heat / ventilation and
excess moisture. An extractor fan for the kitchen would probably help
a lot.

He wont fit one so I have to get a dehumidifier.

My problem , what sort would be best value for money? Should I just get
the
cheapest? Are they all essentially the same? It has to be a 3.4KW to
replace the one we have ( he will fit it if I get it - he fitted the last
one). It will be an online purchase because I found it was cheaper than
any
local outlets .

Pretty all much of a muchness.

Do you know anything about a make called " Elnur" then? That seems to be
the cheapest. or a Sunhouse ( know they used to make electric fires many
years ago).




Useful site - for parts: http://www.storageheater.co.uk/default.htm

[js.b1]

E7 varies around the UK from about 4.5p to 6p inc VAT.

Size - storage charge / units - cost @ 6p/unit
- 0.9kW -- 6.3kWhr (units) charge -- 38p
- 1.7kW -- 11.9kWhr (units) charge -- 71p
- 2.55kW -- 17.85kWhr (units) charge -- 107p
- 3.40kW -- 23.8kWhr (units) charge -- 142p

Perspective - that assumes a 100% charge.
- Automatic set to max will only charge to 75% at +4oC overnight and
only charge to 92% at -2oC overnight
- So the above figures are worst case scenario.

Reality - consider winter as 100 days.
- 100 days of winter means a 3.40kW costs £142
- No maintenance contract, no parts every few years

I can understand 14oC in bedrooms that are used.
However your living room NEEDS to be 18oC+.


Dehumidifiers can cost nearly as much to run as a mid sized storage
heater.

#1 - Draught excluder

#2 - Live under a proper duvet if possible, YOUR BODY needs 18oC
environment even if that is just a micro-environment created by a
duvet

#3 - Make CERTAIN that you are on ECONOMY 7 (or similar), you probably
are for £50/month electric

#4 - Fix the storage heater immediately or buy one on Ebay or
Freecycle, they work, they are reliable, they are cost-effective for
background heating (halls, feeding into bedrooms)

#5 - Consider a second storage heater if possible, a cold 3-bed house
needs 2x 3.40kW (called "24kWhr") in the hallway without CWI and only
loft insulation

#6 - Get the loft insulated because you have no chance of heating the
place without insulation up there AND you will suffer horrendous
descending cold air draughts

#7 - Dehumidifier is not a good solution as they blow cold air BUT
will remove moisture, realise though they will struggle at below 14oC

#8 - Seriously consider a thro-the-wall cooker hood run only for pots
steaming, reduce the moisture input into the house anyway you can.
Window & wall fans do sod all compared to a suitable £20-80 freecycle/
ebay/new cooker hood ducted thro the wall. Amazon do 107mm blue-spot
bits for £20 (you can resell on Ebay for £12) and most drills will do
107mm unless you have engineering brick in which case just take bricks
out and use oblong ducting with a round adapter as it makes life
simpler/sane.

#9 - Woman? Wear thick rugby or thermal socks, seriously because it
makes a big difference AND to circulation

Females suffer cold more than Males, whilst it may not be attractive,
find a fleece top to wear which is long - it will make a substantial
difference.

If you ever redecorate the living room, insulate substantially.

[js.b1]

Seen the other posts, one thought if you do stay...
- If he will not spend more on heat input
- Will he spend on insulation?

- Do you have loft insulation?
- Do you have cavity walls that can be insulated?
- Would he spend money insulating the living room?

B&Q do four extruded polystrene 1200x600mm 50mm slab for £19, various
builders merchants do Celotex 25mm for £14 and 50mm for £20 2400x1200
(celotex is about 50% better). It does not cost much to insulate the
outside walls of a living room such that you can reduce heat loss from
1000W to 100W. That means you pay no more for heating but are
monumentally warmer re 1) higher internal temperature 2) eliminating
plunging cold draughts 3) reducing damp.

Some people can be SO OBSTRUCTIVE, hilarious you are having the
problem with a man when I have it with my mother! Insulation is
winning her over, and she has a lot more problems with her house than
yours (lived in it 60yrs, nothing done really so down to me when time
to progressively and "keyhole surgery" improvements).

For a good wallpaper that is cheap, textured, not offensive, easy to
paint try Graham & Brown "bobble". It is a small random raised-dot
pattern which actually works very well. Easy to get perfect on the
wall, about £6/roll (dozen rolls for £42 delivered as I recall).

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "whiskeyomega"
saying something like:

This is the eco warrior who thinks we have to run the house ( all electric
and no options!) in these freezing conditions for £50 a month. We are
already down to 10 - 14 degrees around the house including the living rooms.
I cant stand it any colder.

www.divorce-lawyers'R'us.com

[Theo Markettos]

whiskeyomega wrote:
No there is nothing wrong with the clocks. Its just broken. We had the same
problem with the other one we replaced. It probably isnt *costing* as much
as he maintains but there you go.

That's puzzling. Apart from the clocks, the way electric heaters break is
they stop producing heat. If they don't produce heat they don't consume
electricity, and so get /cheaper/. If they are consuming electricity, you
really would notice if it came out as kilowatts of light or sound (think
concerts in Wembley Stadium). So it must be as heat. That heat has to go
somewhere. So unless it's going up the chimney/out the window, if the
clocks are correct the only conceivable way they could be costing you more
is if they were hotter than intended. Laws of physics.

If he's being paranoid about electricity costs, it might be worth getting a
digital electricity meter (either the plugin kind or the type you wrap
around the meter tails). Cost about 20 pounds and will show you what you're
using at the moment and the difference it makes switching appliances on and
off. You might be surprised how little a contribution some things make.

Theo

[whiskeyomega]

"js.b1" wrote in message
...
E7 varies around the UK from about 4.5p to 6p inc VAT.

Size - storage charge / units - cost @ 6p/unit
- 0.9kW -- 6.3kWhr (units) charge -- 38p
- 1.7kW -- 11.9kWhr (units) charge -- 71p
- 2.55kW -- 17.85kWhr (units) charge -- 107p
- 3.40kW -- 23.8kWhr (units) charge -- 142p

Perspective - that assumes a 100% charge.
- Automatic set to max will only charge to 75% at +4oC overnight and
only charge to 92% at -2oC overnight
- So the above figures are worst case scenario.

Reality - consider winter as 100 days.
- 100 days of winter means a 3.40kW costs £142
- No maintenance contract, no parts every few years

I can understand 14oC in bedrooms that are used.
However your living room NEEDS to be 18oC+.


Dehumidifiers can cost nearly as much to run as a mid sized storage
heater.

#1 - Draught excluder

#2 - Live under a proper duvet if possible, YOUR BODY needs 18oC
environment even if that is just a micro-environment created by a
duvet

#3 - Make CERTAIN that you are on ECONOMY 7 (or similar), you probably
are for £50/month electric

#4 - Fix the storage heater immediately or buy one on Ebay or
Freecycle, they work, they are reliable, they are cost-effective for
background heating (halls, feeding into bedrooms)

#5 - Consider a second storage heater if possible, a cold 3-bed house
needs 2x 3.40kW (called "24kWhr") in the hallway without CWI and only
loft insulation

#6 - Get the loft insulated because you have no chance of heating the
place without insulation up there AND you will suffer horrendous
descending cold air draughts

#7 - Dehumidifier is not a good solution as they blow cold air BUT
will remove moisture, realise though they will struggle at below 14oC

#8 - Seriously consider a thro-the-wall cooker hood run only for pots
steaming, reduce the moisture input into the house anyway you can.
Window & wall fans do sod all compared to a suitable £20-80 freecycle/
ebay/new cooker hood ducted thro the wall. Amazon do 107mm blue-spot
bits for £20 (you can resell on Ebay for £12) and most drills will do
107mm unless you have engineering brick in which case just take bricks
out and use oblong ducting with a round adapter as it makes life
simpler/sane.

#9 - Woman? Wear thick rugby or thermal socks, seriously because it
makes a big difference AND to circulation

Females suffer cold more than Males, whilst it may not be attractive,
find a fleece top to wear which is long - it will make a substantial
difference.

If you ever redecorate the living room, insulate substantially.

Thank you. Many of the things you suggest ( draught excluders ) we already
have. The place was well insulated by the last owners and they did many of
those things.

The other things I cant do myself. I simply do not know how.
Is it still possible to get the insulation stuff that they used to sell for
walls ( like a polystyrene roll which was like wall paper but you put
underneath before you papered a wall?
I recall having that in my bedroom when I was a child ( in a cold house
then)

But then I would have to learn to put the paper on the walls - and he would
probably have an argument over it.

As for my clothing. I am currently wearing two pairs of trousers ( as well
as underwear of course) three tops - a short sleeve tee shirt. a long sleeve
tee shirt and a thick chunky cardigan , two pairs of socks ( his!) and a
coat. I have got my gloves out but you cant type with gloves on. Its still
cold. You can feel the cold in the air.

As for him, he hasn't got out of bed for the last three days. Its warmer
there I suppose.

[whiskeyomega]

"Theo Markettos" wrote in message
...
whiskeyomega wrote:
No there is nothing wrong with the clocks. Its just broken. We had the
same
problem with the other one we replaced. It probably isnt *costing* as
much
as he maintains but there you go.

That's puzzling. Apart from the clocks, the way electric heaters break is
they stop producing heat. If they don't produce heat they don't consume
electricity, and so get /cheaper/. If they are consuming electricity, you
really would notice if it came out as kilowatts of light or sound (think
concerts in Wembley Stadium). So it must be as heat. That heat has to go
somewhere. So unless it's going up the chimney/out the window, if the
clocks are correct the only conceivable way they could be costing you more
is if they were hotter than intended. Laws of physics.

If he's being paranoid about electricity costs, it might be worth getting
a
digital electricity meter (either the plugin kind or the type you wrap
around the meter tails). Cost about 20 pounds and will show you what
you're
using at the moment and the difference it makes switching appliances on
and
off. You might be surprised how little a contribution some things make.

The heater he says is broken is the one in the hallway. It seems to be over
heating as in it doesnt respond to the settings he has it on ( low!) and
just gets hot. That currently means the hallway is the warmest room in the
place - but it soon goes when the kitchen door is opened - thats the
coldest room and the wetest ( condensation). he told me I could put bubble
wrap over the door ( old wooden one ) to insulate it and keep the room
warmer. He gave me some old bubble wrap paper and I have drawing pinned it
to the door. It hasnt done a fat lot to be honest. The door is still
dripping with moisture as are the windows. He has now given me some
polystyrene sheeting ( he got around the last heater we bought as packing)
and has told me to cut it to size and put it on the door, but I dont know
how to make it stick.

I managed to get the window shut last night but its still wet in there.
Thats where I want the dehumidifier. There is no heat in the kitchen. No
heater, nothing and its a room with two outside walls. .

[Bob Minchin[_3_]]

whiskeyomega wrote:

"js.b1" wrote in message
...
E7 varies around the UK from about 4.5p to 6p inc VAT.

Size - storage charge / units - cost @ 6p/unit
- 0.9kW -- 6.3kWhr (units) charge -- 38p
- 1.7kW -- 11.9kWhr (units) charge -- 71p
- 2.55kW -- 17.85kWhr (units) charge -- 107p
- 3.40kW -- 23.8kWhr (units) charge -- 142p

Perspective - that assumes a 100% charge.
- Automatic set to max will only charge to 75% at +4oC overnight and
only charge to 92% at -2oC overnight
- So the above figures are worst case scenario.

Reality - consider winter as 100 days.
- 100 days of winter means a 3.40kW costs £142
- No maintenance contract, no parts every few years

I can understand 14oC in bedrooms that are used.
However your living room NEEDS to be 18oC+.


Dehumidifiers can cost nearly as much to run as a mid sized storage
heater.

#1 - Draught excluder

#2 - Live under a proper duvet if possible, YOUR BODY needs 18oC
environment even if that is just a micro-environment created by a
duvet

#3 - Make CERTAIN that you are on ECONOMY 7 (or similar), you probably
are for £50/month electric

#4 - Fix the storage heater immediately or buy one on Ebay or
Freecycle, they work, they are reliable, they are cost-effective for
background heating (halls, feeding into bedrooms)

#5 - Consider a second storage heater if possible, a cold 3-bed house
needs 2x 3.40kW (called "24kWhr") in the hallway without CWI and only
loft insulation

#6 - Get the loft insulated because you have no chance of heating the
place without insulation up there AND you will suffer horrendous
descending cold air draughts

#7 - Dehumidifier is not a good solution as they blow cold air BUT
will remove moisture, realise though they will struggle at below 14oC

#8 - Seriously consider a thro-the-wall cooker hood run only for pots
steaming, reduce the moisture input into the house anyway you can.
Window & wall fans do sod all compared to a suitable £20-80 freecycle/
ebay/new cooker hood ducted thro the wall. Amazon do 107mm blue-spot
bits for £20 (you can resell on Ebay for £12) and most drills will do
107mm unless you have engineering brick in which case just take bricks
out and use oblong ducting with a round adapter as it makes life
simpler/sane.

#9 - Woman? Wear thick rugby or thermal socks, seriously because it
makes a big difference AND to circulation

Females suffer cold more than Males, whilst it may not be attractive,
find a fleece top to wear which is long - it will make a substantial
difference.

If you ever redecorate the living room, insulate substantially.

Thank you. Many of the things you suggest ( draught excluders ) we
already have. The place was well insulated by the last owners and they
did many of those things.

The other things I cant do myself. I simply do not know how.
Is it still possible to get the insulation stuff that they used to sell
for walls ( like a polystyrene roll which was like wall paper but you
put underneath before you papered a wall?
I recall having that in my bedroom when I was a child ( in a cold house
then)

But then I would have to learn to put the paper on the walls - and he
would probably have an argument over it.

As for my clothing. I am currently wearing two pairs of trousers ( as
well as underwear of course) three tops - a short sleeve tee shirt. a
long sleeve tee shirt and a thick chunky cardigan , two pairs of socks (
his!) and a coat. I have got my gloves out but you cant type with gloves
on. Its still cold. You can feel the cold in the air.

As for him, he hasn't got out of bed for the last three days. Its warmer
there I suppose.
The way you describe things it does seem that he is the biggest block on
improving your lot.
I feel you have to attack the problem in layers and without an attitude
change from your partner you are going to continue to struggle
Have you a son/daughter/close friends/work colleagues/church who could
lend moral support and make him see that certain things just have to be
done?
Does he have friends who he would listen to and who you could also talk
to. Invite them round for an evening so they can see how you are living.
Sorry if this seems to be interfering in your personal circumstances but ...
I wish you the very best of luck.
Bob

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On 22 Dec 2009 09:08:17 +0000 (GMT), Theo Markettos wrote:

If he's being paranoid about electricity costs, it might be worth
getting a digital electricity meter (either the plugin kind or the type
you wrap around the meter tails). Cost about 20 pounds and will show
you what you're using at the moment and the difference it makes
switching appliances on and off. You might be surprised how little a
contribution some things make.

Provided that what the display is telling you is interpreted
correctly. They show instantaneous consumption as the headline
figure.

Which costs more?
Which looks more?

3kW for 3 min or 300W for an hour.

The 3kW uses *half* the energy of the 300W.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[The Medway Handyman]

Owain wrote:
On 22 Dec, 09:47, "whiskeyomega" wrote:
The other things I cant do myself. I simply do not know how.
Is it still possible to get the insulation stuff that they used to
sell for walls ( like a polystyrene roll which was like wall paper
but you put underneath before you papered a wall?
I recall having that in my bedroom when I was a child ( in a cold
house then)

Yes, they sell it in B&Q.

But then I would have to learn to put the paper on the walls - and
he would probably have an argument over it.
As for my clothing. I am currently wearing two pairs of trousers (
as well as underwear of course) three tops - a short sleeve tee
shirt. a long sleeve tee shirt and a thick chunky cardigan , two
pairs of socks ( his!) and a coat. I have got my gloves out but you
cant type with gloves on. Its still cold. You can feel the cold in
the air.

Your house is not warm enough.

As for him, he hasn't got out of bed for the last three days. Its
warmer there I suppose.

Staying in bed for 3 days is not normal. This would seem to strengthen
other people's suggestions of some form of depression.

Not wishing to be rude, but sorting the heating out isn't going to solve
your problems. You need to sort your life out.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[ARWadsworth]

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 22 Dec, 09:47, "whiskeyomega" wrote:
The other things I cant do myself. I simply do not know how.
Is it still possible to get the insulation stuff that they used to sell
for
walls ( like a polystyrene roll which was like wall paper but you put
underneath before you papered a wall?
I recall having that in my bedroom when I was a child ( in a cold house
then)

Yes, they sell it in B&Q.

But then I would have to learn to put the paper on the walls - and he
would
probably have an argument over it.
As for my clothing. I am currently wearing two pairs of trousers ( as well
as underwear of course) three tops - a short sleeve tee shirt. a long
sleeve
tee shirt and a thick chunky cardigan , two pairs of socks ( his!) and a
coat. I have got my gloves out but you cant type with gloves on. Its still
cold. You can feel the cold in the air.

Your house is not warm enough.

As for him, he hasn't got out of bed for the last three days. Its warmer
there I suppose.

Staying in bed for 3 days is not normal. This would seem to strengthen
other people's suggestions of some form of depression.

Owain

From what I see on the TV at customers houses I suggest the Jeremy Kyle
Show.

Adam