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#1
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
Will a clear polyeurethane varnish like Ronseal Diamond Hard bring
down the colour of newly sanded old pine floorboards? In my last house I used a polyeurethane varnish (I wish I could remember what, but I left the near-empty tin behind when we moved) on sanded pine floorboards dating from 1908 (ie, they were nice and old and seasoned). Obviously, when sanded, the boards had the colour of new wood, but the varnish took this down to a pleasant golden colour. I'm now in the latter stages of sanding the pine floorboards in the hall of my new house, which were laid in 1963. They've come up well with a belt sander. I want to varnish them with a hardwearing satin or matt varnish, but would like to achieve the same golden colour as on the previous occasion. I don't want to use a coloured varnish, or to stain the wood if I can help it. Has anyone used one of the modern water-based polyeurethane varnishes, like Ronseal Diamond Hard, and if so, can you tell me if they affect the colour of sanded pine floorboards? If not, what kind of varnish would? Regards Richard |
#2
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
You need the Diamond Hard with the colour tint in it, or you need to
stain prior to varnishing. Clear diamond hard will not change the colour significantly, nor will any other clear varnish. |
#3
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
On Aug 28, 3:31*pm, geraldthehamster wrote:
Will a clear polyeurethane varnish like Ronseal Diamond Hard bring down the colour of newly sanded old pine floorboards? In my last house I used a polyeurethane varnish (I wish I could remember what, but I left the near-empty tin behind when we moved) on sanded pine floorboards dating from 1908 (ie, they were nice and old and seasoned). Obviously, when sanded, the boards had the colour of new wood, but the varnish took this down to a pleasant golden colour. I'm now in the latter stages of sanding the pine floorboards in the hall of my new house, which were laid in 1963. They've come up well with a belt sander. I want to varnish them with a hardwearing satin or matt varnish, but would like to achieve the same golden colour as on the previous occasion. I don't want to use a coloured varnish, or to stain the wood if I can help it. Has anyone used one of the modern water-based polyeurethane varnishes, like Ronseal Diamond Hard, and if so, can you tell me if they affect the colour of sanded pine floorboards? If not, what kind of varnish would? Regards Richard Stay away from tinted varnishes, as the floor wears normally the varnish chips, and light marks on dark wood look awful. Stain might get you what you want, but I prefer to leave them pale initially and let them darken naturally. It doesnt take long to start looking good, and the result is much better imho NT |
#4
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
In article
, geraldthehamster wrote: Has anyone used one of the modern water-based polyeurethane varnishes, like Ronseal Diamond Hard, and if so, can you tell me if they affect the colour of sanded pine floorboards? If not, what kind of varnish would? I've found the water based ones don't produce that lovely mellow glow on pine you got with traditional varnish. But are better for woods you don't want to change the colour of. -- *No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#5
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
On Aug 28, 4:36*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , * *geraldthehamster wrote: Has anyone used one of the modern water-based polyeurethane varnishes, like Ronseal Diamond Hard, and if so, can you tell me if they affect the colour of sanded pine floorboards? If not, what kind of varnish would? I've found the water based ones don't produce that lovely mellow glow on pine you got with traditional varnish. But are better for woods you don't want to change the colour of. OK, thanks. So what still available now, that you would class as "traditional" varnish? Cheers Richard |
#6
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
On Aug 28, 3:52*pm, John Rumm wrote:
RubberBiker wrote: You need the Diamond Hard with the colour tint in it, or you need to stain prior to varnishing. Clear diamond hard will not change the colour significantly, nor will any other clear varnish. IME most clear varnishes will darken the wood slightly. They may or may not be enough for the effect you seek. Thanks. I just wish I could remember what I used last time. I'm pretty sure it was Ronseal, come to think of it. I guess I'll just sad a bit of gash floorboard from the works upstairs, and experiment. Cheers Richard |
#7
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
In article
, geraldthehamster wrote: I've found the water based ones don't produce that lovely mellow glow on pine you got with traditional varnish. But are better for woods you don't want to change the colour of. OK, thanks. So what still available now, that you would class as "traditional" varnish? Dunno - look on the tin for brush cleaning instructions. If it needs white spirit it will be oil based. -- *I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#8
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
In article
, RubberBiker wrote: You need the Diamond Hard with the colour tint in it, or you need to stain prior to varnishing. Clear diamond hard will not change the colour significantly, nor will any other clear varnish. Varnished pine certainly darkens considerably with oil based varnish. Could be a combination of the varnish and the wood itself changing colour. Doesn't seem anything like as dramatic with a water based varnish - perhaps this blocks out light etc in a different way? -- *Ham and Eggs: Just a day's work for a chicken, but a lifetime commitment Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#9
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
On Aug 28, 7:03*pm, John Rumm wrote:
OK, thanks. So what still available now, that you would class as "traditional" varnish? Any of the high VoC content jobbies, and not the quick drying type. (the latter are not as hard wearing) What's puzzling is that none of the high VOC varnishes I've seen in the sheds are billed as floor varnishes - for example: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Professional...sh/invt/170505 I also have a tin in the cupboard of Ronseal Ultra Tough Satincoat, also high VOC, which I used on a worktop. The tin suggests uses on all sorts of furniture, but omits to mention floors. I'm puzzled that while the sheds continue to sell high VOC solvent based varnishes, the only ones they have that are explicitly floor varnishes are medium or low VOC water based varnishes. Makes no sense to me. Regards Richard |
#10
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
On Aug 28, 7:19*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: Varnished pine certainly darkens considerably with oil based varnish. Could be a combination of the varnish and the wood itself changing colour.. Doesn't seem anything like as dramatic with a water based varnish - perhaps this blocks out light etc in a different way? I suppose that makes sense, when you think what happens when you apply oils to wood - not that I suppose the solvents used in varnishes bear much relation to linseed oil, teak oil, etc. ;-) and I suppose in theory the solvent is just a carrier, that evaporates. Regards Richard |
#11
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
NT wrote:
On Aug 28, 3:31 pm, geraldthehamster wrote: Will a clear polyeurethane varnish like Ronseal Diamond Hard bring down the colour of newly sanded old pine floorboards? In my last house I used a polyeurethane varnish (I wish I could remember what, but I left the near-empty tin behind when we moved) on sanded pine floorboards dating from 1908 (ie, they were nice and old and seasoned). Obviously, when sanded, the boards had the colour of new wood, but the varnish took this down to a pleasant golden colour. I'm now in the latter stages of sanding the pine floorboards in the hall of my new house, which were laid in 1963. They've come up well with a belt sander. I want to varnish them with a hardwearing satin or matt varnish, but would like to achieve the same golden colour as on the previous occasion. I don't want to use a coloured varnish, or to stain the wood if I can help it. Has anyone used one of the modern water-based polyeurethane varnishes, like Ronseal Diamond Hard, and if so, can you tell me if they affect the colour of sanded pine floorboards? If not, what kind of varnish would? Regards Richard Stay away from tinted varnishes, as the floor wears normally the varnish chips, and light marks on dark wood look awful. Stain might get you what you want, but I prefer to leave them pale initially and let them darken naturally. It doesnt take long to start looking good, and the result is much better imho You could try the old ploy of spraying a mild alkali over the boards, this brings out that nice mellow colour in minutes. Half a teaspoon of caustic soda to a litre of water in a plant sprayer, mist it over, allow to dry. Works a treat. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#12
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
On Aug 28, 10:26*pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: You could try the old ploy of spraying a mild alkali over the boards, this brings out that nice mellow colour in minutes. *Half a teaspoon of caustic soda to a litre of water in a plant sprayer, mist it over, allow to dry. Works a treat. I did that on some new timber shelves once - scrubbed them with caustic. It certainly took the hard edges off, and yellowed the wood. Looked OK once I'd gone over it with Fiddes, but nowhere near as nice as the pine frame of a mirror left on a sunny wall for a year... Anyway, I have a plan now - I don't see why the Wickes matt high VOC polyeurethane varnish shouldn't be good enough for a floor, so I'm going to try that. I've spent the past 20 mins reading the archive, and discovered admonitions to use gloss for the under-coats, if using matt for the top, to avoid a milky finish - I'm speculating that this applies to water-based varnish, though. Suck it and see, I think. Cheers Richard |
#13
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
In article
, geraldthehamster wrote: You could try the old ploy of spraying a mild alkali over the boards, this brings out that nice mellow colour in minutes. Half a teaspoon of caustic soda to a litre of water in a plant sprayer, mist it over, allow to dry. Works a treat. I did that on some new timber shelves once - scrubbed them with caustic. It certainly took the hard edges off, and yellowed the wood. Looked OK once I'd gone over it with Fiddes, but nowhere near as nice as the pine frame of a mirror left on a sunny wall for a year... Absolutely. Natural ageing beats staining etc every time. But I reckon the varnish does add to the colour - in the same way as oil based white paint doesn't stay white for long. -- *It's lonely at the top, but you eat better. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#14
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article Natural ageing beats staining etc every time. I have both. Bill |
#15
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
geraldthehamster wrote:
On Aug 28, 7:03 pm, John Rumm wrote: OK, thanks. So what still available now, that you would class as "traditional" varnish? Any of the high VoC content jobbies, and not the quick drying type. (the latter are not as hard wearing) What's puzzling is that none of the high VOC varnishes I've seen in the sheds are billed as floor varnishes - for example: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Professional...sh/invt/170505 I also have a tin in the cupboard of Ronseal Ultra Tough Satincoat, also high VOC, which I used on a worktop. The tin suggests uses on all sorts of furniture, but omits to mention floors. I'm puzzled that while the sheds continue to sell high VOC solvent based varnishes, the only ones they have that are explicitly floor varnishes are medium or low VOC water based varnishes. Makes no sense to me. Regards Richard Maybe one reason is that use on a floor can be overwhelming due to the high VOC. On more modest things the absolute amount will be lower. -- Rod |
#16
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
Rod wrote:
geraldthehamster wrote: On Aug 28, 7:03 pm, John Rumm wrote: OK, thanks. So what still available now, that you would class as "traditional" varnish? Any of the high VoC content jobbies, and not the quick drying type. (the latter are not as hard wearing) What's puzzling is that none of the high VOC varnishes I've seen in the sheds are billed as floor varnishes - for example: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Professional...sh/invt/170505 I also have a tin in the cupboard of Ronseal Ultra Tough Satincoat, also high VOC, which I used on a worktop. The tin suggests uses on all sorts of furniture, but omits to mention floors. I'm puzzled that while the sheds continue to sell high VOC solvent based varnishes, the only ones they have that are explicitly floor varnishes are medium or low VOC water based varnishes. Makes no sense to me. Regards Richard Maybe one reason is that use on a floor can be overwhelming due to the high VOC. On more modest things the absolute amount will be lower. Which is why the two pack acid cat floor varnishes don't seem to be generally available now. They have the advantage of being extremely tough and totally clear. For a mellow yellow look, I'd use a standard polyurethane, even if it's not specifically for floors. Water based varnishes are certainly clear in the sense that they don't change the colour, but they still have that cling film look, which I think is the nature of the acrylic beast. The harder the resin, the higher ambient temperature it requires to cure and remain clear, so d-i-y stuff is never going to have the toughness you can achieve in a controlled environment |
#17
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
Right, I'm back, with some test results and another question.
I've done two test pieces on spare board (that was taken up during renovations upstairs), one with Ronseal Diamond Hard Floor Varnish (water-borne polyeurethane, medium VOC), and the other with Wickes Professional Interior Varnish (solvent-borne polyeurethane, high VOC). As predicted, the Ronseal lowered the colour ever so slightly without really changing it, but left a plasticky-looking finish that I don't like at all. The Wickes produced the lovely golden colour that I was after. However... The management has decreed that the more natural colour obtained from the Ronseal is to be preferred. In fact, she's right, as it matches the natural wood colour of our stripped and waxed doors (the mellow golden colour worked in the previous house, because the doors themselves were a mellow golden colour, through the application of linseed oil, which is not the case here). So I'm tempted to use the Ronseal as the first couple of coats, to seal the wood with a lighter colour, then to finish with a couple of coats of solvent-borne matt (or more likely satin), to avoid the plasticky finish. Does anyone know if there could be any problem with applying a solvent-borne varnish over a waterborne one, once the latter has dried? I can't immediately see that problems are likely - I know you have to be careful if doing it the other way round, to make sure the solvent has evaporated, but the water evaporates quite quickly. Could there be issues over the one bonding with the other? Regards Richard |
#18
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
geraldthehamster wrote:
Right, I'm back, with some test results and another question. I've done two test pieces on spare board (that was taken up during renovations upstairs), one with Ronseal Diamond Hard Floor Varnish (water-borne polyeurethane, medium VOC), and the other with Wickes Professional Interior Varnish (solvent-borne polyeurethane, high VOC). As predicted, the Ronseal lowered the colour ever so slightly without really changing it, but left a plasticky-looking finish that I don't like at all. The Wickes produced the lovely golden colour that I was after. However... The management has decreed that the more natural colour obtained from the Ronseal is to be preferred. In fact, she's right, as it matches the natural wood colour of our stripped and waxed doors (the mellow golden colour worked in the previous house, because the doors themselves were a mellow golden colour, through the application of linseed oil, which is not the case here). So I'm tempted to use the Ronseal as the first couple of coats, to seal the wood with a lighter colour, then to finish with a couple of coats of solvent-borne matt (or more likely satin), to avoid the plasticky finish. Does anyone know if there could be any problem with applying a solvent-borne varnish over a waterborne one, once the latter has dried? I can't immediately see that problems are likely - I know you have to be careful if doing it the other way round, to make sure the solvent has evaporated, but the water evaporates quite quickly. Could there be issues over the one bonding with the other? Regards Richard Probably won't be any immediate compatibility problems, but a hard varnish on top of a softer one isn't usually a good idea, especially on a floor. You may find that applying the Ronseal differently will change the look. Try brushing it on, then wiping with a rag after a few minutes as if you're trying to remove it. Repeat if necessary (when the first coat is dry), using a circular motion, until the rag starts to "drag". The plastic look is really to do with the thickness of film sitting on the surface, which I prefer to keep to a minimum. |
#19
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
On Aug 30, 9:49*am, Stuart Noble wrote:
geraldthehamster wrote: Right, I'm back, with some test results and another question. I've done two test pieces on spare board (that was taken up during renovations upstairs), one with Ronseal Diamond Hard Floor Varnish (water-borne polyeurethane, medium VOC), and the other with Wickes Professional Interior Varnish (solvent-borne polyeurethane, high VOC). As predicted, the Ronseal lowered the colour ever so slightly without really changing it, but left a plasticky-looking finish that I don't like at all. The Wickes produced the lovely golden colour that I was after. However... The management has decreed that the more natural colour obtained from the Ronseal is to be preferred. In fact, she's right, as it matches the natural wood colour of our stripped and waxed doors (the mellow golden colour worked in the previous house, because the doors themselves were a mellow golden colour, through the application of linseed oil, which is not the case here). So I'm tempted to use the Ronseal as the first couple of coats, to seal the wood with a lighter colour, then to finish with a couple of coats of solvent-borne matt (or more likely satin), to avoid the plasticky finish. Does anyone know if there could be any problem with applying a solvent-borne varnish over a waterborne one, once the latter has dried? I can't immediately see that problems are likely - I know you have to be careful if doing it the other way round, to make sure the solvent has evaporated, but the water evaporates quite quickly. Could there be issues over the one bonding with the other? Regards Richard Probably won't be any immediate compatibility problems, but a hard varnish on top of a softer one isn't usually a good idea, especially on a floor. You may find that applying the Ronseal differently will change the look. Try brushing it on, then wiping with a rag after a few minutes as if you're trying to remove it. Repeat if necessary (when the first coat is dry), using a circular motion, until the rag starts to "drag". The plastic look is really to do with the thickness of film sitting on the surface, which I prefer to keep to a minimum.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that could work over a small area. I can see accessibility problems in "wiping it off with a rag after a few minutes", when I'll have just varnished an entire hall; though I suppose your method avoids the need to maintain a wet edge, and therefore to do the whole floor at once. Point taken on the thickness of the film. Possibly one coat of the water-borne would be enough to seal the wood for colour; before completing with high VOC. I'm probably trying to be too scientific about this. I've now hoovered the floor and tack-ragged it with white spirit. Once that's dried I'll apply the first coat of watery Ronseal then take it from there. My gut feeling is two coats of Ronseal, de-nib, then two or three coats of the matt solvent stuff. Regards Richard |
#20
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
I think that could work over a small area. I can see accessibility problems in "wiping it off with a rag after a few minutes", when I'll have just varnished an entire hall; though I suppose your method avoids the need to maintain a wet edge, and therefore to do the whole floor at once. The "few minutes" can be less, it's just that it's easier to apply with a brush than a rag. Point taken on the thickness of the film. Possibly one coat of the water-borne would be enough to seal the wood for colour; before completing with high VOC. The overall "colour" is partly determined by the final coat, so you might create a kind of yellow glaze effect. I'd be a bit worried that the high VOC wouldn't wear well on top of the softer water based film. I'm probably trying to be too scientific about this. I've now hoovered the floor and tack-ragged it with white spirit. Once that's dried I'll apply the first coat of watery Ronseal then take it from there. My gut feeling is two coats of Ronseal, de-nib, then two or three coats of the matt solvent stuff. The rag method doesn't really need de-nibbing, that's one of the benefits. FWIW I've never been able to get the same result with brushing, however thin or diluted the coat. |
#21
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
geraldthehamster wrote: On Aug 28, 7:03*pm, John Rumm wrote: OK, thanks. So what still available now, that you would class as "traditional" varnish? Any of the high VoC content jobbies, and not the quick drying type. (the latter are not as hard wearing) What's puzzling is that none of the high VOC varnishes I've seen in the sheds are billed as floor varnishes - for example: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Professional...sh/invt/170505 I also have a tin in the cupboard of Ronseal Ultra Tough Satincoat, also high VOC, which I used on a worktop. The tin suggests uses on all sorts of furniture, but omits to mention floors. I'm puzzled that while the sheds continue to sell high VOC solvent based varnishes, the only ones they have that are explicitly floor varnishes are medium or low VOC water based varnishes. Makes no sense to me. Regards Richard Personally,I don't give water based varnishes house room. The stuff's reasonable on non-trafficed surfaces, (just need lashings of it). http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-168130701.html |
#22
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
OK, here is what I did, in case it helps anyone.
I was persuaded by the "management", that I didn't want the varnish to change the colour of my sanded pine floorboards. However, I did want a matt finish, and didn't want the plasticky finish that my experiments gave with water-based satin, so this is what I did: Hoover, wipe down with white spirit, allow to dry. Two coats of Ronseal Diamond Hard satin (water-based polyeurethane). Before final coat - Light sanding, Hoover, wipe down with white spirit, allow to dry. Three coats of Wickes Professional matt varnish (solvent-based polyeurethane). Between coats - Hoover, wipe down with white spirit, allow to dry. Before final coat - Light sanding, Hoover, wipe down with white spirit, allow to dry. (The constant hoovering and cleaning is down to the fact that the hall had to be in light use between coats (the Wickes tin advises 16-20 hours before re-coating). The result is a pleasing clear matt. I did the whole job with a brush, so there are some brush marks in the final coat, which I may remove with wire wool when it's fully hard. I'm pleased with the result, which has given what I hope is a decent, hard finish, without significantly changing the colour of the wood, as I would have done had I applied solvent-based varnish to it directly. I say "significantly" - I think the solvent-based varnish has deepened the colour ever so slightly, which suggests that some of the effect of this varnish on wood is due to the way it reflects the light, though the effect mostly occurs when solvent-based varnish is absorbed by the wood, which I have avoided. A poster in another thread suggested that multiple coats of matt varnish would give an opaque finish, which I didn't find to be the case (though perhaps the reference was to water-based matt; not that I've seen any). Obviously I can't comment on how hard-wearing it will be, or whether there will be issues with one kind of varnish on top of another. With five coats in all, I'm not anticipating issues. Regards Richard |
#23
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
Sorry, I omitted a sanding:
Hoover, wipe down with white spirit, allow to dry. Two coats of Ronseal Diamond Hard satin (water-based polyeurethane). Before final coat - Light sanding, Hoover, wipe down with white spirit, allow to dry. ** Light sanding, Hoover, wipe down with white spirit, allow to dry.** Three coats of Wickes Professional mattvarnish(solvent-based polyeurethane). Between coats - Hoover, wipe down with white spirit, allow to dry. Before final coat - Light sanding, Hoover, wipe down with white spirit, allow to dry. Regards Richard |
#24
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Floor varnish changing colour of floorboards
The result is a pleasing clear matt. I did the whole job with a brush, so there are some brush marks in the final coat, which I may remove with wire wool when it's fully hard. Polyurethane normally sands easily i.e. doesn't gum up the abrasive. Might be easier than steel wool. |
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