[harry]

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

[The Natural Philosopher[_2_]]

On 16/12/16 10:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

ROFLMFAO.

So why do they need subsidies again harry?

[Jeff Layman[_2_]]

On 16/12/16 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

Why give an inaccurate subject line? The actual title of the article in
The Independent is:
"Solar power becoming world's cheapest form of electricity production,
analysts say". That word "becoming" is there for a reason.

A couple of quotes from the article:
"Renewable energy is cheap in developing countries that are looking to
add more electricity to their national grids."

"However, in rich nations where new renewable energy generators must
compete with existing fossil fuel power stations the cost of carbon-free
electricity can be higher."

Zealots! Sheesh...

--

Jeff

[alan_m]

On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html


Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[The Natural Philosopher[_2_]]

On 16/12/16 11:32, alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html



Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?


Course not.

And the actual costs will be less the massive subsidy they got to
install them, and the 'green bank' zero rate loans...

[Rod Speed]

Pigs arse it is.

harry wrote

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 16/12/16 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

Why give an inaccurate subject line? The actual title of the article in
The Independent is:
"Solar power becoming world's cheapest form of electricity production,
analysts say". That word "becoming" is there for a reason.

A couple of quotes from the article:
"Renewable energy is cheap in developing countries that are looking to
add more electricity to their national grids."

"However, in rich nations where new renewable energy generators must
compete with existing fossil fuel power stations the cost of carbon-free
electricity can be higher."

Zealots! Sheesh...

The one thing you can be sure of is fossil fuel energy will go up as the
years go on. If the cost of the energy from the sun does too we're in real
trouble.

--
*All generalizations are false.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[tim...]

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html


Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's dark
factored in?

I realise that this doesn't allow the claim to be scaled up in the way harry
did

but I think the point of the article was talking about areas where there was
no other means of supply

leccy for 12 hours a day has got to be better than leccy for zero hours of
the day

tim




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
So why are solar power companies not meeting expectations, Harry?
http://tinyurl.com/pmuqxtm I believe some of the big solar
installations in North Africa are also in financial difficulties
because they're not producing as much electricity as they claimed they
would.

Might it also be that world oil and gas prices are very much lower than
when the project was envisaged?

But I'd guess we all know these low prices won't last.

--
*Broken pencils are pointless.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[The Natural Philosopher[_2_]]

On 16/12/16 15:26, tim... wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html



Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?

I realise that this doesn't allow the claim to be scaled up in the way
harry did

but I think the point of the article was talking about areas where there
was no other means of supply

leccy for 12 hours a day has got to be better than leccy for zero hours
of the day

Not if te main use for it is lighting after dark.
tim




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[newshound]

On 12/16/2016 9:16 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 16/12/16 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html


Why give an inaccurate subject line? The actual title of the article in
The Independent is:
"Solar power becoming world's cheapest form of electricity production,
analysts say". That word "becoming" is there for a reason.


+1

[harry]

On Friday, 16 December 2016 14:43:07 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
So why are solar power companies not meeting expectations, Harry?
http://tinyurl.com/pmuqxtm I believe some of the big solar

Solar thermal, not PV.

From the same website:-
http://breakingenergy.com/2014/09/10...ibuted-likely/

[harry]

On Friday, 16 December 2016 09:04:15 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/12/16 10:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

ROFLMFAO.

So why do they need subsidies again harry?

The same reason nuclear needs subsidies I 'spect.
But solar PV subsidies are reducing.
Nuclear costs ever more.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...nuclear-bunker

[harry]

On Friday, 16 December 2016 09:32:08 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html


Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?

The technology is with us.


https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...ne-and-Commiss

[The Natural Philosopher[_2_]]

On 16/12/16 20:29, harry wrote:
On Friday, 16 December 2016 09:32:08 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html


Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?

The technology is with us.


https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...ne-and-Commiss

Harry is a card, really.

He either Believes, or he is paid to lie.

[Tim Lamb[_2_]]

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 16/12/16 20:29, harry wrote:
On Friday, 16 December 2016 09:32:08 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...rlds-cheapest-
electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html


Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?

The technology is with us.



https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...city-Flow-Batt
ery-in-North-America-and-EU-is-Online-and-Commiss

Harry is a card, really.

He either Believes, or he is paid to lie.

Did you listen to the R4 bit on crystallised graphite? Potential use for
irradiated power station graphite ... everlasting batteries.

--
Tim Lamb

[tony sayer]

In article ,
harry scribeth thus
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...rlds-cheapest-
electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html



FFS! So why do they when wittering on about how good Solar is mention or
take counties that are around the ****ing equator rather then the UK on
a very overcast cold winders day when we need the bloody power the
most!?


--
Tony Sayer

[Rod Speed]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 16/12/16 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

Why give an inaccurate subject line? The actual title of the article in
The Independent is:
"Solar power becoming world's cheapest form of electricity production,
analysts say". That word "becoming" is there for a reason.

A couple of quotes from the article:
"Renewable energy is cheap in developing countries that are looking to
add more electricity to their national grids."

"However, in rich nations where new renewable energy generators must
compete with existing fossil fuel power stations the cost of carbon-free
electricity can be higher."

Zealots! Sheesh...

The one thing you can be sure of is fossil
fuel energy will go up as the years go on.

Sure, but that might well be in hundreds of years with coal.

If the cost of the energy from the sun does too we're in real trouble.

Nope, we'll just use nukes.

[harry]

On Friday, 16 December 2016 22:16:31 UTC, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...rlds-cheapest-
electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html



FFS! So why do they when wittering on about how good Solar is mention or
take counties that are around the ****ing equator rather then the UK on
a very overcast cold winders day when we need the bloody power the
most!?

Solar PV fits in very well with daytime electricity consumption peaks.
It's about saving fuel costs.
It's about fuel security.
It's inflation proof.
Are you too thick to understand this?

[Brian Gaff]

I think the problem with solar is pretty obvious to anyone.
It only works when its sunny and daytime. A slight inconvenience that.


Anyone know how that project to drill into a volcano is doing to use geo
thermalenergy?
However I'm not living near a volcano just coss the leccy is cheaper and I
don't think there are many volcanoes in Surrey.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 16/12/16 10:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

ROFLMFAO.

So why do they need subsidies again harry?

[tony sayer]

In article , harry
scribeth thus
On Friday, 16 December 2016 22:16:31 UTC, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...rlds-cheapest-
electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html



FFS! So why do they when wittering on about how good Solar is mention or
take counties that are around the ****ing equator rather then the UK on
a very overcast cold winders day when we need the bloody power the
most!?

Solar PV fits in very well with daytime electricity consumption peaks.
It's about saving fuel costs.
It's about fuel security.
It's inflation proof.
Are you too thick to understand this?


I'm not that thick Harry unlike yourself where you keep promoting Impractical
solutions to the power problems we have here in the UK not on some Sunny isle
elsewhere.

Here in the cold damp dark overcast hi pressure afflicted United Kingdom.

Got that?..
--
Tony Sayer

[Andrew[_22_]]

On 16/12/2016 13:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 16/12/16 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

Why give an inaccurate subject line? The actual title of the article in
The Independent is:
"Solar power becoming world's cheapest form of electricity production,
analysts say". That word "becoming" is there for a reason.

A couple of quotes from the article:
"Renewable energy is cheap in developing countries that are looking to
add more electricity to their national grids."

"However, in rich nations where new renewable energy generators must
compete with existing fossil fuel power stations the cost of carbon-free
electricity can be higher."

Zealots! Sheesh...

The one thing you can be sure of is fossil fuel energy will go up as the
years go on. If the cost of the energy from the sun does too we're in real
trouble.

In about five billion years we'll get lots more energy from the sun :-)

In the meanwhile, all those fancy 'renewables' will be priced to
follow the increase in fossil fuel prices (when they go up), but
then demand more subsidies (when the latter go down).

[Andrew[_22_]]

On 16/12/2016 09:32, alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html



Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?



Store electricity ??. Really ?.

[Andrew[_22_]]

On 16/12/2016 13:26, tim... wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html



Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?

I realise that this doesn't allow the claim to be scaled up in the way
harry did

but I think the point of the article was talking about areas where there
was no other means of supply

leccy for 12 hours a day has got to be better than leccy for zero hours
of the day

tim




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

How much power does an MRI scanner with its supercooled magnets need
24/7/365 ?.

More to the point how much power does the entire NHS use every year ?.
Does anyone actually know ?.

[tim...]

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 16/12/16 15:26, tim... wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html



Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?

I realise that this doesn't allow the claim to be scaled up in the way
harry did

but I think the point of the article was talking about areas where there
was no other means of supply

leccy for 12 hours a day has got to be better than leccy for zero hours
of the day

Not if te main use for it is lighting after dark.

why would its main use to be to provide something that it can't provide that
you *didn't* have before

It's like saying that there's no point someone who doesn't own a car buying
one because it can't fly you to France

tim




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[harry]

On Saturday, 17 December 2016 09:57:59 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
I think the problem with solar is pretty obvious to anyone.
It only works when its sunny and daytime. A slight inconvenience that.


Anyone know how that project to drill into a volcano is doing to use geo
thermalenergy?
However I'm not living near a volcano just coss the leccy is cheaper and I
don't think there are many volcanoes in Surrey.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 16/12/16 10:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

ROFLMFAO.

So why do they need subsidies again harry?

[Rod Speed]

harry wrote
tony sayer wrote
harry wrote

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html

FFS! So why do they when wittering on about how good Solar is mention
or take counties that are around the ****ing equator rather then the UK
on
a very overcast cold winders day when we need the bloody power the most!?

Solar PV fits in very well with daytime electricity consumption peaks.

Pigs arse it does in a soggy place like Britain.

It's about saving fuel costs.

Much better done by using nukes which have **** all fuel cost.

It's about fuel security.

Much better done with nukes.

It's inflation proof.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Are you too thick to understand this?

You shouldnt be so hard on yourself.

[Rod Speed]

"tim..." wrote in message
news


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 16/12/16 15:26, tim... wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html



Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?

I realise that this doesn't allow the claim to be scaled up in the way
harry did

but I think the point of the article was talking about areas where there
was no other means of supply

leccy for 12 hours a day has got to be better than leccy for zero hours
of the day

Not if te main use for it is lighting after dark.

why would its main use to be to provide something that it can't provide
that you *didn't* have before

Because that happens to be what you need most, lighting after dark.

It's like saying that there's no point someone who doesn't own a car
buying one because it can't fly you to France

Nothing like in fact.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, 17 December 2016 09:55:44 UTC, harry wrote:
On Friday, 16 December 2016 22:16:31 UTC, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...rlds-cheapest-
electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html



FFS! So why do they when wittering on about how good Solar is mention or
take counties that are around the ****ing equator rather then the UK on
a very overcast cold winders day when we need the bloody power the
most!?

Solar PV fits in very well with daytime electricity consumption peaks.
It's about saving fuel costs.
It's about fuel security.
It's inflation proof.
Are you too thick to understand this?

If you believe that I have a bridge for sale. And I know where there are some rubber rooms available.


NT

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 11:13:21 PM UTC+8, Andrew wrote:

How much power does an MRI scanner with its supercooled magnets need
24/7/365 ?.

Better still how much does the super duper hadron collider with its
superchill magnets use?
It is the most inefficient machine on Earth, all that power to move
teeny weeny particles...

[harry]

On Saturday, 17 December 2016 20:29:34 UTC, wrote:
On Saturday, 17 December 2016 09:55:44 UTC, harry wrote:
On Friday, 16 December 2016 22:16:31 UTC, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...rlds-cheapest-
electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html



FFS! So why do they when wittering on about how good Solar is mention or
take counties that are around the ****ing equator rather then the UK on
a very overcast cold winders day when we need the bloody power the
most!?

Solar PV fits in very well with daytime electricity consumption peaks.
It's about saving fuel costs.
It's about fuel security.
It's inflation proof.
Are you too thick to understand this?

If you believe that I have a bridge for sale. And I know where there are some rubber rooms available.


NT

You're not clever are you?

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

Store electricity ??. Really ?.

Yes. Battery farms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batter..._power_station

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

[RJH[_2_]]

On 16/12/2016 10:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/12/16 11:32, alan_m wrote:
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html




Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?


Course not.


Yes, they are. They use Powerpacks. And I'd expect they'll still keep a
few of the diesel generators they used before, for emergencies.

And the actual costs will be less the massive subsidy they got to
install them, and the 'green bank' zero rate loans...

Where did you read that? Somehow I think you'll be playing your cards
fairly close to your chest ;-)

To my knowledge this was an open auction for a market supplier. And the
subsidies of the past were for diesel - not counting the externalities.

If anything it's likely more expensive than a state operation, cartels
and all of that.



--
Cheers, Rob

[RJH[_2_]]

On 16/12/2016 22:08, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...rlds-cheapest-
electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html



FFS! So why do they when wittering on about how good Solar is mention or
take counties that are around the ****ing equator rather then the UK on
a very overcast cold winders day when we need the bloody power the
most!?


It's poorly written. Applying to say the UK would be very difficult -
and the journalist would have done well to explain that.

But IMHO it's a very impressive model for island communities like Ta'u.

--
Cheers, Rob

[RJH[_2_]]

On 18/12/2016 09:11, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

Store electricity ??. Really ?.

Yes. Battery farms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batter..._power_station


Yes, and far more off-the-shelf in Ta'u:

http://www.envirotech-online.com/new...r_power/41158/

--
Cheers, Rob

[tim...]

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
news


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 16/12/16 15:26, tim... wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html



Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when it's
dark factored in?

I realise that this doesn't allow the claim to be scaled up in the way
harry did

but I think the point of the article was talking about areas where
there
was no other means of supply

leccy for 12 hours a day has got to be better than leccy for zero hours
of the day

Not if te main use for it is lighting after dark.

why would its main use to be to provide something that it can't provide
that you *didn't* have before

Because that happens to be what you need most, lighting after dark.

but they are currently sourcing that some other way

so they can go on doing so

and I would content that it is what you need most

Surely things like refrigeration to keep food longer is much more important
"new" thing to have

It's like saying that there's no point someone who doesn't own a car
buying one because it can't fly you to France

Nothing like in fact.

Nope, it's an exact analogy


tim




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[charles]

In article , tim...
wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
news


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news On 16/12/16 15:26, tim... wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 16/12/2016 08:50, harry wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7477096.html



Are the costs for storage or an for alternative source for when
it's dark factored in?

I realise that this doesn't allow the claim to be scaled up in the
way harry did

but I think the point of the article was talking about areas where
there was no other means of supply

leccy for 12 hours a day has got to be better than leccy for zero
hours of the day

Not if te main use for it is lighting after dark.

why would its main use to be to provide something that it can't
provide that you *didn't* have before

Because that happens to be what you need most, lighting after dark.

but they are currently sourcing that some other way

so they can go on doing so

and I would content that it is what you need most

Surely things like refrigeration to keep food longer is much more
important "new" thing to have

and heating. Yes, I know you should use gas or oil, but not everybody can.
Even if you use those two other fuels you need electricity to keep the
appliances working.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

[tony sayer]

In article , RJH
scribeth thus
On 16/12/2016 22:08, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...rlds-cheapest-
electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html



FFS! So why do they when wittering on about how good Solar is mention or
take counties that are around the ****ing equator rather then the UK on
a very overcast cold winders day when we need the bloody power the
most!?


It's poorly written. Applying to say the UK would be very difficult -
and the journalist would have done well to explain that.

Journalist explain anything tecchy?, your 'havin a giraffe mate;!



But IMHO it's a very impressive model for island communities like Ta'u.


--
Tony Sayer

[Peter Parry]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 01:55:41 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:


Solar PV fits in very well with daytime electricity consumption peaks.

You mean the two daily peaks in the winter at 06:00 to 08:00 and 17:00
to 19:00? How much PV is being generated at those times?

Currently wind power is providing 3% of our immediate need and solar
slightly less. Where are you going to get the remaining 94% from?

[Robin]

On 18/12/2016 10:05, RJH wrote:


But IMHO it's a very impressive model for island communities like Ta'u.

Indeed - but that's (a) a tropical island with steady sunshine through
the year, (b) relatively modest demands (less than 1 MW[1]) and (c)
relatively high prices from previous sources. And even then the solar
PV was only practicable because of funding by the World Bank, EU, and
Pacific Rims states.

[1] I knew someone who worked there who like to give people
idiosyncratic angles on what it was like, such as less than 200 street
lights in the whole country

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid