Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

TIA

In message , Fred
writes
Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

12' gate and 3' gate with a pillar between them


How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size?

From the questions you are asking - probably quite difficult

Here - take this piece of string and tell me how long it is

What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

TIA

--
bumsnase

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:36:23 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , Fred
writes
Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

12' gate and 3' gate with a pillar between them


How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size?

From the questions you are asking - probably quite difficult

Here - take this piece of string and tell me how long it is

What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

TIA

Or simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it or as I have
done (with smaller gates that I wanted to fold) hinged one off the other,
so no middle post is needed, just a lifting bolt into the ground at the
intermediate hinge. It's maybe pushing it a bit, but I don't think adding
3' to a 12' gate will overload it too much (unless the kids all line up
along it to swing!)

SteveW

Fred wrote:
Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

TIA

I've made smaller wooden gates and repaired larger farm gates. Before
constructing it you need to consider the function of the gate. Is is to
be livestock proof? Cattle / horses can do a lot of damage if for
whatever reason they apply weight to a gate. (grass being greener on
other side for example). Does it need to keep in small livestock? Does
the gate need to be aesthetically pleasing - i.e. will it be in a posh
drive entrance position or in a farm yard?

Generally, the heavier you make a gate the more it will cost but also
the more strain it puts on the gate post. It is common for gate posts to
sag after a few years unless they are suitably strong and have adequate
foundations. A gate 15 feet wide will produce a lot of leverage on the
gate post. I'd be tempted to make two smaller gates. In fact I do have a
pair to make some time in the near future for my own drive.

Perhaps this is obvious, but the diagonals you refer to are most
important; they stop the gate itself from sagging, so need to be sturdy.

Horses for courses. Build the gate to meet the particular requirements.
I'm sure there are lots of gate designs on the internet if you do a
google search, from the traditional five bar gate onwards. They are not
difficult to make.


--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

Agree with above. If not put off by the appearance, you might consider "farm
gate" hinges, the type where the "moving" bit is a ring on the end of a
length of studding; the rings fit over pins cantilevered off the fixed post,
the studding lets you easily adjust the clearance at the open side, and
adjust for sag on the gate and movement of the hinge post.

Fred wrote:
Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

TIA

You don't say where you/your neighbour live but
http://www.howickforge.co.uk/ may be a possibility

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:50:12 +0200, David in Normandy wrote:

Generally, the heavier you make a gate the more it will cost but also
the more strain it puts on the gate post. It is common for gate posts to
sag after a few years unless they are suitably strong and have adequate
foundations. A gate 15 feet wide will produce a lot of leverage on the
gate post.

Only if the turning moment from the gate is applied all the time. In
the normal position(s) of the gate the weight should be supported at
both ends, this is good for both the gate and the hinge post.

Build the gate to meet the particular requirements.

Or have made, the biggest snag in making yourself is the size and
making the joints tight enough such that the gate doesn't move due to
loose joints. We had three gates made for here, one is a large field
gate, certainly more than the "standard" 12'. It only cost a couple
of hundred quid softwood but treated and is still as good now as was
new after several years.

See what local timber yards or saw mills can offer.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:36:23 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , Fred
writes
Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

12' gate and 3' gate with a pillar between them


How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size?

From the questions you are asking - probably quite difficult

Here - take this piece of string and tell me how long it is

What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

TIA

Or simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it or as I have
done (with smaller gates that I wanted to fold) hinged one off the other,
so no middle post is needed, just a lifting bolt into the ground at the
intermediate hinge. It's maybe pushing it a bit, but I don't think adding
3' to a 12' gate will overload it too much (unless the kids all line up
along it to swing!)

Given the OPs post stated wooden gates I'd enjoy watching you weld a bit on
to one ;-)

"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

Personally I'd fit 2 gates if existing posts permit. Otherwise at that
length a weight releasing roller at the opposite end to the hinges would
reduce sag and weight drop.

R wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:36:23 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , Fred
writes
Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace.
It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

12' gate and 3' gate with a pillar between them


How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size?

From the questions you are asking - probably quite difficult

Here - take this piece of string and tell me how long it is

What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

TIA

Or simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it or as I
have done (with smaller gates that I wanted to fold) hinged one off
the other, so no middle post is needed, just a lifting bolt into the
ground at the intermediate hinge. It's maybe pushing it a bit, but I
don't think adding 3' to a 12' gate will overload it too much
(unless the kids all line up along it to swing!)

Given the OPs post stated wooden gates I'd enjoy watching you weld a
bit on to one ;-)

Ah, but, the implication was that he would replace his rusty metal gate with
a new metal gate if he could, just that the places he's been to only do 12'
and not the 15' that he needs.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:26:46 +0100, Fred wrote:

Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is
fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements
up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber
would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and
either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top?

TIA

=========================================

It might make sense in the circumstances to have the old gate sand blasted
and possibly strengthened, depending on condition. There are plenty of mobile sand
blasters around. At least he would know that the gate post will take the strain.

It will be quite difficult to make a wooden gate of the required length
without making it unduly heavy - perhaps too heavy for the existing gate
post.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:44:34 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it

I think he now wants wood rather than metal, though I suppose you
could bolt a 3' wooden gate to a 12' one.

I'm surprised that the consensus seems to be to buy ready made gates;
normally you get told off for doing that in uk.diy

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:50:12 +0200, David in Normandy
wrote:

I've made smaller wooden gates and repaired larger farm gates. Before
constructing it you need to consider the function of the gate. Is is to
be livestock proof? Cattle / horses can do a lot of damage if for
whatever reason they apply weight to a gate. (grass being greener on
other side for example). Does it need to keep in small livestock? Does
the gate need to be aesthetically pleasing - i.e. will it be in a posh
drive entrance position or in a farm yard?

It is not a farm nor is it a posh house, it's something halfway
between the two!

A five bar gate is all he wants really. He is quite happy with the
style of a five bar gate. It doesn't need to be any fancier than that.

He doesn't have any livestock to contain, though there was a story
about a cow escaping from a farmer's field into his garden once many
years ago, so animal resistance would be desirable but not essential.

Generally, the heavier you make a gate the more it will cost but also
the more strain it puts on the gate post. It is common for gate posts to
sag after a few years unless they are suitably strong and have adequate
foundations. A gate 15 feet wide will produce a lot of leverage on the
gate post. I'd be tempted to make two smaller gates. In fact I do have a
pair to make some time in the near future for my own drive.

I think his wife has vetoed two smaller gates!

I would think the metal five bar gate he has now is pretty heavy. I
guess I will be asked to angle grind it into smaller pieces when it is
replaced! It has very big gate posts already, so I would hope they
would withstand the weight of a new gate. OTOH I suppose the metal is
hollow. Is a wooden gate much heavier than a steel gate of the same
size?

Perhaps this is obvious, but the diagonals you refer to are most
important; they stop the gate itself from sagging, so need to be sturdy.

Horses for courses. Build the gate to meet the particular requirements.
I'm sure there are lots of gate designs on the internet if you do a
google search, from the traditional five bar gate onwards. They are not
difficult to make.

Part of the problem with google is knowing what term to use. Now that
I know what they are called, that will help me. So far I can find
people wanting to sell me their gates, not help me make my own. I can
see pictures on their sites showing the arrangement of the timbers but
they do not share the trade secrets of what size the timber has to be!

Thank you for your replies.

I know what they are called, that will help me. So far I can find
people wanting to sell me their gates, not help me make my own. I can
see pictures on their sites showing the arrangement of the timbers but
they do not share the trade secrets of what size the timber has to be!

I'm bored waiting on a phone call so....

you might look at http://www.nc-web.net/sandpjoinery/products.html
(advertising wooden field gates up to 5.6m; level crossing gates up to
13m) or http://www.jamessmithfencing.co.uk/c...ub.asp?page=12
(metal gates to 16ft).

(that you contemplate DIY-ing such a gate makes me feel more than a
little inadequate)
--
R

....but
they do not share the trade secrets of what size the timber has to be!


PS

these plans from Canada include details of timber and appear to be for
gates up to 16'
--
R

Buggrit! Millennium Hand & Shrimp!

http://www.cps.gov.on.ca/english/pla...8364/8364L.pdf

--
R

On Jun 22, 4:26 am, Fred wrote:
Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square
wood.
I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so
it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead.
It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy
to make, although it took me a long time.

On Jun 22, 10:33 am, Matty F wrote:
On Jun 22, 4:26 am, Fred wrote:

Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square
wood.
I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so
it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead.
It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy
to make, although it took me a long time.

Here's a pic:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2r478dg.jpg

Small swinging gate on the left, sliding 15 foot gate on the right. It
slides behind the rest of the fence on the right. I made the gates to
match the existing fence.
I imagine the 15 foot gate would swing OK if hinged to a very strong
post.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:33:34 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:

On Jun 22, 4:26 am, Fred wrote:
Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square
wood.
I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so
it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead.
It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy
to make, although it took me a long time.

That's smart!
I made a 3' picket gate and it took quite a while. It had to be strong as
there were 2 springer spaniels to restrain; eventually there were up to 5
dogs jumping up it. Fortunately I went to an agricultural outlet for the
hinges as the bacofoil things in the sheds would have given way.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:33:34 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
wrote:

I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square
wood.
I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so
it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead.
It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy
to make, although it took me a long time.

That looks really impressive. Well done! How is it all held together?
Nails?

Thanks.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:38:08 GMT, "neverwas"
wrote:

that you contemplate DIY-ing such a gate makes me feel more than a
little inadequate

I'm only contemplating; I might not do it yet! That's why I am here,
to find out how easy it is.

On Jun 22, 8:55 pm, Owain wrote:
Matty F wrote:
I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square
wood.
I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so
it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead.
It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy
to make, although it took me a long time.

9.5/10. You're missing a ball on your right-hand post

The two balls are to indicate where the pedestrian gate is. Even with
that, some people can't work out how to get in. But no loss, they only
want to try to sell me something.
You may not have noticed that the left hand ball is smaller than the
right one. That's because I found the right one on an abandoned fence,
and made another on a lathe. Just about killed myself because it was
H5 treated timber, i.e. for marine use. Wear a mask when cutting that
stuff.

On Jun 22, 8:56 pm, Fred wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:33:34 -0700 (PDT), Matty F

wrote:
I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square
wood.
I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so
it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead.
It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy
to make, although it took me a long time.

That looks really impressive. Well done! How is it all held together?
Nails?

Yes just nails except that the main rails and the ends are half-
jointed together with 6 screws. Glue would be a good idea but I didn't
use any.
It sagged somewhat until I put the diagonal braces on. Now it will
hold my weight.
I would now recommend using 3x2" timber (on the flat) at top and
bottom. The timber is H3 treated pinus radiata which I happened to
have lying around.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2r478dg.jpg

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:02:04 +0100, Pete Zahut wrote:

R wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:36:23 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , Fred
writes
Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace.
It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

12' gate and 3' gate with a pillar between them


How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size?

From the questions you are asking - probably quite difficult

Here - take this piece of string and tell me how long it is

What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

TIA

Or simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it or as I
have done (with smaller gates that I wanted to fold) hinged one off
the other, so no middle post is needed, just a lifting bolt into the
ground at the intermediate hinge. It's maybe pushing it a bit, but I
don't think adding 3' to a 12' gate will overload it too much
(unless the kids all line up along it to swing!)

Given the OPs post stated wooden gates I'd enjoy watching you weld a
bit on to one ;-)

Ah, but, the implication was that he would replace his rusty metal gate with
a new metal gate if he could, just that the places he's been to only do 12'
and not the 15' that he needs.

Exactly!

SteveW

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:37:42 GMT, "neverwas"
wrote:


http://www.cps.gov.on.ca/english/pla...8364/8364L.pdf

What a fantastic page. What did you type into google to find that?
Thank you.

That suggests using 6x2 wood but it is for use on a farm with cows, so
it would certainly be livestock-proof, which was a consideration
another poster mentioned. For ornamental use, I suppose a smaller size
could be used, but I think I would stick with the plans as they are
because I don't have the expertise to know how much I can safely
change them by. If the timber was too small, I am sure it could snag
or snap. It is better to be oveengineered than underengineered!

Are gate parts called the same as their equivalents in doors: stiles,
rails, etc?

If so, it looks to me as if the rails are just nailed onto the stiles.
That's fine if it is just for use on a field. The "prettier" versions
I have seen UK sites selling seem to have the stiles and rails flush,
presumably with mortice and tennon joints. That would obviously take a
bit longer to machine than just nailing them on top of each other.

IIRC a tenon in a third of the thickness, so would a 2/3" tennon be
strong enough or would this be a weaker, if prettier, gate?

There is a vertical brace (number four on that diagram), roughly
halfway across and that must be M&T'd on the flush gates too, is it?

I have seen one picture of a stile with a tongue and the rails slot
into that. I suppose that could be done with a router.

Thanks again.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:34:46 +0100, Fred wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:44:34 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it

I think he now wants wood rather than metal, though I suppose you
could bolt a 3' wooden gate to a 12' one.

The OP does not say that. He says that his neighbour wants to replace an
existing metal gate, but that none of the suppliers do one over 12' and I
took it that he was therefore only looking at a wooden replacement as he
could make one himself easier than a metal one.

SteveW

Matty F wrote:
On Jun 22, 10:33 am, Matty F wrote:
On Jun 22, 4:26 am, Fred wrote:

Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square
wood.
I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so
it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead.
It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy
to make, although it took me a long time.

Here's a pic:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2r478dg.jpg

That looks really superb. Great job.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:31:08 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:34:46 +0100, Fred wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:44:34 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it

I think he now wants wood rather than metal, though I suppose you
could bolt a 3' wooden gate to a 12' one.

The OP does not say that. He says that his neighbour wants to replace an
existing metal gate, but that none of the suppliers do one over 12' and I
took it that he was therefore only looking at a wooden replacement as he
could make one himself easier than a metal one.

SteveW

Sorry, Ignore that, I should have looked at who posted instead of what was
posted! I took that post as someone replying to my previous post rather
than you adding more information to your first post!

SteveW

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:26:46 +0100
Fred wrote:

Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

TIA

It is probably possible to make a 15 foot wooden gate by traditional
methods (rail with diagonal). I would want to use oak for this, and
that would mean massive posts, at least 12x12. If it's softwood, take it
to the sawmill to have it treated after cutting. There is a local
sawmill here (N Cumbria) that makes treated-spruce gates to order, look
for one in your area.

On the other hand, if it's going to be boarded, then it may also be
possible to design a stressed-skin panel using 5mm Marine-ply over
a treated spruce frame using boat-building methods, this would be very
light. A thin (say, 6mm) T&G covering is also a possibility, but it
would need to be glued not just to the frame, but also in the T&G, and
I think that might split in the weather.

I don't know if there are planning/regs constraints.

R.

What did you type into google to find that?

That's the only question I can answer. It was "farm gate construction
plan" in Bing. (I like Google's services but fear its seemingly
inevitable march to total global domination. Help! Where's my foil
hat?)

I'm sure those who can do will be along shortly on the other questions


--
R

On 21 June, 17:26, Fred wrote:

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

There's a reason for that...

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size?

Not.

Go for two 7 1/2' gates instead - much easier all round.

Buy galv steel. Lighter, cheaper, stock item.

Otherwise build a 15' gate, but be warned that you need to be a fairly
experienced carpenter to do this well (ie to get a light gate that's
still rigid). Design isn't easy and the construction needs the ability
to cut some big joints that still fit closely enough to be rigid.
Although much carpentry is about pin jointed structures (stiff sticks
between floppy joints will still form a rigid structure if you
triangulate) a gate (usally) needs to be flat and so this becomes hard
to achieve if it's not to flex as you open and close it.

Material I'd choose would be Douglas fir. This is stiffer than most,
lighter than most (esp. oak) and you'll have a job to find my usual
outdoor timber choice of larch in good untwisted sections at this
length. I'd get it from http://www.bendreybrothers.co.uk (Bristol
area), and their website might give you pricing ideas.

Remember that gates are basically triangular, not rectangular,
especially when it's big or heavy and you're having to be careful with
the structural design. Use the traditional approach of extending the
hinge-end upwards, often with a "hockey stick" curve inwards and
hanging the main diagonal from that. This diagonal is the main
strength of the gate, _not_ the horizontal rails. The more angle you
get into it, the more it's working in tension and less in bending
(that's why the horizontals can't carry the load). I'd also tend to
duplicate it, maybe a 2"x6" on each side of the central rails - that
way you get the gate to be thicker (stiffer in bending) whilst not
needing to be as heavy as if you beef up the rails. Making the end
posts of heavier section (depending on what you can get) also makes
the rest of the fence look visually lighter in comparison. One trick
is to use an oak knee for the upright, the knee (a curve that grew
that way) being the cheapest way to get the shape. Weight this close
to the hinge is no problem for either moment or inertia, but it does
help to make for stronger joints.

I wouldn't make it solid, because of wind load. If you have to for
visual privacy, put staggered palings on each side.

The rest is just web searching, or a few of those lovely 100-year old
books that are reprinted so cheaply these days (Try "The Mid Western
Farmer's Compleat Almanac of Gate Building and Hog Husbandry" or
something like that, probably published by Dover or Ten-speed Press
and sold through Camden steam bookshop).

Go easy on the joints. Big single dovetails and their like are your
best bet. Complicated enough to still work by wedge action for decades
after the nails fell out, simple enough to cut well and to use large
robust components. Through bolts rather than screws (bigger than 2"
anyway) and a farmer's shop sells a wide range of galv ironwork,
hinges and latches.

On Jun 22, 9:48 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Matty F wrote:
On Jun 22, 10:33 am, Matty F wrote:
On Jun 22, 4:26 am, Fred wrote:

Hi,

A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It
is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply
replacements up to 12 feet wide.

How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of
timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick
diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail
T&G on top?

I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square
wood.
I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so
it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead.
It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy
to make, although it took me a long time.

Here's a pic:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2r478dg.jpg

That looks really superb. Great job.

Thanks. I wasn't going to post any more about it but I see that
someone that I thought was a real expert has implied that a thin
wooden gate of that width is basically impossible.
I thought it would be impossible too, but having built it, it works
fine.
I don't think it would keep horses in though.

On 25 June, 08:01, Matty F wrote:

a thin wooden gate of that width is basically impossible.

Obviously it's not impossible, but there comes a point when wider
gates of thinner scantlings become awkwardly flexible.

The fix for this on level crossing gates is to use a wire truss
structure as well. The "gate" is wooden and flexible. Along the bottom
edges (both side) are a series of iron "pylons" sticking out about 6"
from the wood. Diagonal wire bracing beween these (usually taken under
the wood, from side pylon to side pylon) makes the effective thickness
of the gate 12"-18" and thus a lot stiffer.

On Jun 25, 9:11 pm, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 25 June, 08:01, Matty F wrote:

a thin wooden gate of that width is basically impossible.

Obviously it's not impossible, but there comes a point when wider
gates of thinner scantlings become awkwardly flexible.

The fix for this on level crossing gates is to use a wire truss
structure as well. The "gate" is wooden and flexible. Along the bottom
edges (both side) are a series of iron "pylons" sticking out about 6"
from the wood. Diagonal wire bracing beween these (usually taken under
the wood, from side pylon to side pylon) makes the effective thickness
of the gate 12"-18" and thus a lot stiffer.

I would certainly recommend using two gates instead of one, if that's
possible. In my case there is nowhere to swing them to.
And I would recommend steel for a 15 foot gate. I just made my gate
for almost nothing out of timber I had left over from making the
balustrades and fences for my house. I bought a real cheap packet load
of about 1500 feet of it.

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:30:42 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:

I would certainly recommend using two gates instead of one, if that's
possible. In my case there is nowhere to swing them to. And I would
recommend steel for a 15 foot gate.

I still feel that a properly made 15' timber gate is not a problem.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/3659175057/

13' timber field gate. Hinge post 5 x 3, slam post 3 x 3, top rail 4
x 3, other rails and braces 3 1/2 x 1. All rails have 3 x 1 mortises
right through the posts. The braces are overlap jointed into the top
rail and bolted right through the top thin rail and at the apex on
the bottom rail.

This gate is several years old and hasn't dropped at all, mind the
latch does take some of the weight when it is closed as should happen
with all gates.

For 15' I'd keep the same basic design but might taper the top rail
from 5 x 3 to 4 x 3 and have 3 instead of 2 sets of braces, mainly
'cause I think that would look better.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Jun 26, 12:28 am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:30:42 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:
I would certainly recommend using two gates instead of one, if that's
possible. In my case there is nowhere to swing them to. And I would
recommend steel for a 15 foot gate.

I still feel that a properly made 15' timber gate is not a problem.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/3659175057/

13' timber field gate. Hinge post 5 x 3, slam post 3 x 3, top rail 4
x 3, other rails and braces 3 1/2 x 1. All rails have 3 x 1 mortises
right through the posts. The braces are overlap jointed into the top
rail and bolted right through the top thin rail and at the apex on
the bottom rail.

This gate is several years old and hasn't dropped at all, mind the
latch does take some of the weight when it is closed as should happen
with all gates.

For 15' I'd keep the same basic design but might taper the top rail
from 5 x 3 to 4 x 3 and have 3 instead of 2 sets of braces, mainly
'cause I think that would look better.

The braces on my gate match the angle of the gables on my house.
Your top rail is four times the cross-section of my top rail, which
should stop the gate flexing.

On 25 June, 13:28, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

I still feel that a properly made 15' timber gate is not a problem.

This gate is several years old and hasn't dropped at all,

Dropping isn't the problem, as you have the height of the gate to work
with for triangulating it with bracing (like I said before,
structurally a gate is a triangle, not a rectangle). The problem
you'll encounter first and most awkwardly is horizontal flexing when
opening or closing, even some helical twisting, as there isn't enough
thickness in the gate to brace it easily.

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:28:21 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

I still feel that a properly made 15' timber gate is not a problem.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/3659175057/

13' timber field gate. Hinge post 5 x 3, slam post 3 x 3, top rail 4
x 3, other rails and braces 3 1/2 x 1. All rails have 3 x 1 mortises
right through the posts. The braces are overlap jointed into the top
rail and bolted right through the top thin rail and at the apex on
the bottom rail.

This gate is several years old and hasn't dropped at all, mind the
latch does take some of the weight when it is closed as should happen
with all gates.

For 15' I'd keep the same basic design but might taper the top rail
from 5 x 3 to 4 x 3 and have 3 instead of 2 sets of braces, mainly
'cause I think that would look better.


Hello again,

That's a nice looking gate Dave, well done.

I am confused because each person I ask suggests a different timber
size. The Canadian pdf given earlier in the thread suggests 6"x2",
though to be fair, it is for keeping livestock in (or out). I phoned
the timer merchant to ask for a price for some 6x2 redwood and he
called me back and said he had made a 13' gate of 3x1: half the size.

Whilst there will be no cattle, some concerns on this thread have been
about the gate flexing. Would bigger timber mean more rigidity?

A carpenter told my neighbour not to use cedar; I don't know why, I
don't think cedar was ever mentioned and he said softwood would not
last. OTOH Dave's softwood gate has lasted, so I think that provided
it was treated, it should be ok.

The nice thing about Dave's gate is that the rails are morticed. The
Canadian plans show the rails and stiles simply on top of each other
(full lap?) and simply bolted through. The fixing is not clear on the
illustration but it looks as thought hey have used five bolts or nails
per rail end.

Morticing the joints must make the gate look flush and prettier? I
wonder if it has any mechanical impact?

I am most confused about the diagonal bracing.

The Canadian plans:
http://www.cps.gov.on.ca/english/pla...8364/8364L.pdf

show the brace running from the top of the hinge side to the bottom of
the corner of the unhinged side. This echoes what Andy said in one of
his replies.

But... I've just received a copy of an article from the New Zealand
"shed magazine", found via google it's a magazine with projects for
New Zealanders to make in their sheds. They have made a farm gate from
4x2 but they state that the brace must run from the bottom of the
hinged side to the top of the unhinged side: the exact opposite of the
Canadian's and Andy's plans!

To quote the article: "the diagonal struts have to go down to meet the
hinge at the bottom corner, not the other way round, to provide
support for the compression. Otherwise the timber in the gate would be
expanding and pulling apart, not being forced together".

Have they got this wrong? OTOH Dave's diagonals are V shaped and his
gate has held together, so perhaps is it not that important?

Rather than mortice the joints the NZ'ers have put sandwiched the
rails between two stiles on each side and put one bolt through each
rail. I think that might be a nice compromise as it makes the gate
prettier without the hassle of having to mortice (as neither of us
have bench drills and mortice attachments). Of course, I would have to
use thinner timber as three layers of 6x2 would make a very wide gate!

Thanks again.