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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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wooden gates: how to make?
Hi,
A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? TIA |
#2
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wooden gates: how to make?
In message , Fred
writes Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. 12' gate and 3' gate with a pillar between them How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? From the questions you are asking - probably quite difficult Here - take this piece of string and tell me how long it is What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? TIA -- bumsnase |
#3
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:36:23 +0100, geoff wrote:
In message , Fred writes Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. 12' gate and 3' gate with a pillar between them How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? From the questions you are asking - probably quite difficult Here - take this piece of string and tell me how long it is What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? TIA Or simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it or as I have done (with smaller gates that I wanted to fold) hinged one off the other, so no middle post is needed, just a lifting bolt into the ground at the intermediate hinge. It's maybe pushing it a bit, but I don't think adding 3' to a 12' gate will overload it too much (unless the kids all line up along it to swing!) SteveW |
#4
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wooden gates: how to make?
Fred wrote:
Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? TIA I've made smaller wooden gates and repaired larger farm gates. Before constructing it you need to consider the function of the gate. Is is to be livestock proof? Cattle / horses can do a lot of damage if for whatever reason they apply weight to a gate. (grass being greener on other side for example). Does it need to keep in small livestock? Does the gate need to be aesthetically pleasing - i.e. will it be in a posh drive entrance position or in a farm yard? Generally, the heavier you make a gate the more it will cost but also the more strain it puts on the gate post. It is common for gate posts to sag after a few years unless they are suitably strong and have adequate foundations. A gate 15 feet wide will produce a lot of leverage on the gate post. I'd be tempted to make two smaller gates. In fact I do have a pair to make some time in the near future for my own drive. Perhaps this is obvious, but the diagonals you refer to are most important; they stop the gate itself from sagging, so need to be sturdy. Horses for courses. Build the gate to meet the particular requirements. I'm sure there are lots of gate designs on the internet if you do a google search, from the traditional five bar gate onwards. They are not difficult to make. -- David in Normandy. To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the subject line, or it will be automatically deleted by a filter and not reach my inbox. |
#5
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wooden gates: how to make?
Agree with above. If not put off by the appearance, you might consider "farm gate" hinges, the type where the "moving" bit is a ring on the end of a length of studding; the rings fit over pins cantilevered off the fixed post, the studding lets you easily adjust the clearance at the open side, and adjust for sag on the gate and movement of the hinge post. |
#6
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wooden gates: how to make?
Fred wrote:
Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? TIA You don't say where you/your neighbour live but http://www.howickforge.co.uk/ may be a possibility |
#7
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:50:12 +0200, David in Normandy wrote:
Generally, the heavier you make a gate the more it will cost but also the more strain it puts on the gate post. It is common for gate posts to sag after a few years unless they are suitably strong and have adequate foundations. A gate 15 feet wide will produce a lot of leverage on the gate post. Only if the turning moment from the gate is applied all the time. In the normal position(s) of the gate the weight should be supported at both ends, this is good for both the gate and the hinge post. Build the gate to meet the particular requirements. Or have made, the biggest snag in making yourself is the size and making the joints tight enough such that the gate doesn't move due to loose joints. We had three gates made for here, one is a large field gate, certainly more than the "standard" 12'. It only cost a couple of hundred quid softwood but treated and is still as good now as was new after several years. See what local timber yards or saw mills can offer. -- Cheers Dave. |
#8
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wooden gates: how to make?
"Steve Walker" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:36:23 +0100, geoff wrote: In message , Fred writes Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. 12' gate and 3' gate with a pillar between them How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? From the questions you are asking - probably quite difficult Here - take this piece of string and tell me how long it is What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? TIA Or simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it or as I have done (with smaller gates that I wanted to fold) hinged one off the other, so no middle post is needed, just a lifting bolt into the ground at the intermediate hinge. It's maybe pushing it a bit, but I don't think adding 3' to a 12' gate will overload it too much (unless the kids all line up along it to swing!) Given the OPs post stated wooden gates I'd enjoy watching you weld a bit on to one ;-) |
#9
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wooden gates: how to make?
"Fred" wrote in message ... Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? Personally I'd fit 2 gates if existing posts permit. Otherwise at that length a weight releasing roller at the opposite end to the hinges would reduce sag and weight drop. |
#10
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wooden gates: how to make?
R wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:36:23 +0100, geoff wrote: In message , Fred writes Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. 12' gate and 3' gate with a pillar between them How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? From the questions you are asking - probably quite difficult Here - take this piece of string and tell me how long it is What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? TIA Or simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it or as I have done (with smaller gates that I wanted to fold) hinged one off the other, so no middle post is needed, just a lifting bolt into the ground at the intermediate hinge. It's maybe pushing it a bit, but I don't think adding 3' to a 12' gate will overload it too much (unless the kids all line up along it to swing!) Given the OPs post stated wooden gates I'd enjoy watching you weld a bit on to one ;-) Ah, but, the implication was that he would replace his rusty metal gate with a new metal gate if he could, just that the places he's been to only do 12' and not the 15' that he needs. |
#11
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:26:46 +0100, Fred wrote:
Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? TIA ========================================= It might make sense in the circumstances to have the old gate sand blasted and possibly strengthened, depending on condition. There are plenty of mobile sand blasters around. At least he would know that the gate post will take the strain. It will be quite difficult to make a wooden gate of the required length without making it unduly heavy - perhaps too heavy for the existing gate post. Cic. -- ========================================== Using Ubuntu Linux Windows shown the door ========================================== |
#12
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:44:34 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote: simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it I think he now wants wood rather than metal, though I suppose you could bolt a 3' wooden gate to a 12' one. I'm surprised that the consensus seems to be to buy ready made gates; normally you get told off for doing that in uk.diy |
#13
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:50:12 +0200, David in Normandy
wrote: I've made smaller wooden gates and repaired larger farm gates. Before constructing it you need to consider the function of the gate. Is is to be livestock proof? Cattle / horses can do a lot of damage if for whatever reason they apply weight to a gate. (grass being greener on other side for example). Does it need to keep in small livestock? Does the gate need to be aesthetically pleasing - i.e. will it be in a posh drive entrance position or in a farm yard? It is not a farm nor is it a posh house, it's something halfway between the two! A five bar gate is all he wants really. He is quite happy with the style of a five bar gate. It doesn't need to be any fancier than that. He doesn't have any livestock to contain, though there was a story about a cow escaping from a farmer's field into his garden once many years ago, so animal resistance would be desirable but not essential. Generally, the heavier you make a gate the more it will cost but also the more strain it puts on the gate post. It is common for gate posts to sag after a few years unless they are suitably strong and have adequate foundations. A gate 15 feet wide will produce a lot of leverage on the gate post. I'd be tempted to make two smaller gates. In fact I do have a pair to make some time in the near future for my own drive. I think his wife has vetoed two smaller gates! I would think the metal five bar gate he has now is pretty heavy. I guess I will be asked to angle grind it into smaller pieces when it is replaced! It has very big gate posts already, so I would hope they would withstand the weight of a new gate. OTOH I suppose the metal is hollow. Is a wooden gate much heavier than a steel gate of the same size? Perhaps this is obvious, but the diagonals you refer to are most important; they stop the gate itself from sagging, so need to be sturdy. Horses for courses. Build the gate to meet the particular requirements. I'm sure there are lots of gate designs on the internet if you do a google search, from the traditional five bar gate onwards. They are not difficult to make. Part of the problem with google is knowing what term to use. Now that I know what they are called, that will help me. So far I can find people wanting to sell me their gates, not help me make my own. I can see pictures on their sites showing the arrangement of the timbers but they do not share the trade secrets of what size the timber has to be! Thank you for your replies. |
#14
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wooden gates: how to make?
I know what they are called, that will help me. So far I can find
people wanting to sell me their gates, not help me make my own. I can see pictures on their sites showing the arrangement of the timbers but they do not share the trade secrets of what size the timber has to be! I'm bored waiting on a phone call so.... you might look at http://www.nc-web.net/sandpjoinery/products.html (advertising wooden field gates up to 5.6m; level crossing gates up to 13m) or http://www.jamessmithfencing.co.uk/c...ub.asp?page=12 (metal gates to 16ft). (that you contemplate DIY-ing such a gate makes me feel more than a little inadequate) -- R |
#15
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wooden gates: how to make?
....but they do not share the trade secrets of what size the timber has to be! PS these plans from Canada include details of timber and appear to be for gates up to 16' -- R |
#16
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wooden gates: how to make?
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#17
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Jun 22, 4:26 am, Fred wrote:
Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square wood. I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead. It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy to make, although it took me a long time. |
#18
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Jun 22, 10:33 am, Matty F wrote:
On Jun 22, 4:26 am, Fred wrote: Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square wood. I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead. It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy to make, although it took me a long time. Here's a pic: http://i42.tinypic.com/2r478dg.jpg Small swinging gate on the left, sliding 15 foot gate on the right. It slides behind the rest of the fence on the right. I made the gates to match the existing fence. I imagine the 15 foot gate would swing OK if hinged to a very strong post. |
#19
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:33:34 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:
On Jun 22, 4:26 am, Fred wrote: Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square wood. I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead. It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy to make, although it took me a long time. That's smart! I made a 3' picket gate and it took quite a while. It had to be strong as there were 2 springer spaniels to restrain; eventually there were up to 5 dogs jumping up it. Fortunately I went to an agricultural outlet for the hinges as the bacofoil things in the sheds would have given way. -- Peter. The head of a pin will hold more angels if it's been flattened with an angel-grinder. |
#20
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:33:34 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
wrote: I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square wood. I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead. It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy to make, although it took me a long time. That looks really impressive. Well done! How is it all held together? Nails? Thanks. |
#21
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:38:08 GMT, "neverwas"
wrote: that you contemplate DIY-ing such a gate makes me feel more than a little inadequate I'm only contemplating; I might not do it yet! That's why I am here, to find out how easy it is. |
#22
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Jun 22, 8:55 pm, Owain wrote:
Matty F wrote: I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square wood. I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead. It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy to make, although it took me a long time. 9.5/10. You're missing a ball on your right-hand post The two balls are to indicate where the pedestrian gate is. Even with that, some people can't work out how to get in. But no loss, they only want to try to sell me something. You may not have noticed that the left hand ball is smaller than the right one. That's because I found the right one on an abandoned fence, and made another on a lathe. Just about killed myself because it was H5 treated timber, i.e. for marine use. Wear a mask when cutting that stuff. |
#23
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Jun 22, 8:56 pm, Fred wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:33:34 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote: I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square wood. I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead. It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy to make, although it took me a long time. That looks really impressive. Well done! How is it all held together? Nails? Yes just nails except that the main rails and the ends are half- jointed together with 6 screws. Glue would be a good idea but I didn't use any. It sagged somewhat until I put the diagonal braces on. Now it will hold my weight. I would now recommend using 3x2" timber (on the flat) at top and bottom. The timber is H3 treated pinus radiata which I happened to have lying around. http://i42.tinypic.com/2r478dg.jpg |
#24
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:02:04 +0100, Pete Zahut wrote:
R wrote: "Steve Walker" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:36:23 +0100, geoff wrote: In message , Fred writes Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. 12' gate and 3' gate with a pillar between them How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? From the questions you are asking - probably quite difficult Here - take this piece of string and tell me how long it is What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? TIA Or simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it or as I have done (with smaller gates that I wanted to fold) hinged one off the other, so no middle post is needed, just a lifting bolt into the ground at the intermediate hinge. It's maybe pushing it a bit, but I don't think adding 3' to a 12' gate will overload it too much (unless the kids all line up along it to swing!) Given the OPs post stated wooden gates I'd enjoy watching you weld a bit on to one ;-) Ah, but, the implication was that he would replace his rusty metal gate with a new metal gate if he could, just that the places he's been to only do 12' and not the 15' that he needs. Exactly! SteveW |
#25
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:37:42 GMT, "neverwas"
wrote: http://www.cps.gov.on.ca/english/pla...8364/8364L.pdf What a fantastic page. What did you type into google to find that? Thank you. That suggests using 6x2 wood but it is for use on a farm with cows, so it would certainly be livestock-proof, which was a consideration another poster mentioned. For ornamental use, I suppose a smaller size could be used, but I think I would stick with the plans as they are because I don't have the expertise to know how much I can safely change them by. If the timber was too small, I am sure it could snag or snap. It is better to be oveengineered than underengineered! Are gate parts called the same as their equivalents in doors: stiles, rails, etc? If so, it looks to me as if the rails are just nailed onto the stiles. That's fine if it is just for use on a field. The "prettier" versions I have seen UK sites selling seem to have the stiles and rails flush, presumably with mortice and tennon joints. That would obviously take a bit longer to machine than just nailing them on top of each other. IIRC a tenon in a third of the thickness, so would a 2/3" tennon be strong enough or would this be a weaker, if prettier, gate? There is a vertical brace (number four on that diagram), roughly halfway across and that must be M&T'd on the flush gates too, is it? I have seen one picture of a stile with a tongue and the rails slot into that. I suppose that could be done with a router. Thanks again. |
#26
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:34:46 +0100, Fred wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:44:34 +0100, Steve Walker wrote: simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it I think he now wants wood rather than metal, though I suppose you could bolt a 3' wooden gate to a 12' one. The OP does not say that. He says that his neighbour wants to replace an existing metal gate, but that none of the suppliers do one over 12' and I took it that he was therefore only looking at a wooden replacement as he could make one himself easier than a metal one. SteveW |
#27
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wooden gates: how to make?
Matty F wrote:
On Jun 22, 10:33 am, Matty F wrote: On Jun 22, 4:26 am, Fred wrote: Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square wood. I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead. It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy to make, although it took me a long time. Here's a pic: http://i42.tinypic.com/2r478dg.jpg That looks really superb. Great job. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#28
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:31:08 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:34:46 +0100, Fred wrote: On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:44:34 +0100, Steve Walker wrote: simply a 12' gate with a 3' gate welded to the end of it I think he now wants wood rather than metal, though I suppose you could bolt a 3' wooden gate to a 12' one. The OP does not say that. He says that his neighbour wants to replace an existing metal gate, but that none of the suppliers do one over 12' and I took it that he was therefore only looking at a wooden replacement as he could make one himself easier than a metal one. SteveW Sorry, Ignore that, I should have looked at who posted instead of what was posted! I took that post as someone replying to my previous post rather than you adding more information to your first post! SteveW |
#29
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:26:46 +0100
Fred wrote: Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? TIA It is probably possible to make a 15 foot wooden gate by traditional methods (rail with diagonal). I would want to use oak for this, and that would mean massive posts, at least 12x12. If it's softwood, take it to the sawmill to have it treated after cutting. There is a local sawmill here (N Cumbria) that makes treated-spruce gates to order, look for one in your area. On the other hand, if it's going to be boarded, then it may also be possible to design a stressed-skin panel using 5mm Marine-ply over a treated spruce frame using boat-building methods, this would be very light. A thin (say, 6mm) T&G covering is also a possibility, but it would need to be glued not just to the frame, but also in the T&G, and I think that might split in the weather. I don't know if there are planning/regs constraints. R. |
#30
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wooden gates: how to make?
What did you type into google to find that?
That's the only question I can answer. It was "farm gate construction plan" in Bing. (I like Google's services but fear its seemingly inevitable march to total global domination. Help! Where's my foil hat?) I'm sure those who can do will be along shortly on the other questions -- R |
#31
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wooden gates: how to make?
On 21 June, 17:26, Fred wrote:
A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. There's a reason for that... How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? Not. Go for two 7 1/2' gates instead - much easier all round. Buy galv steel. Lighter, cheaper, stock item. Otherwise build a 15' gate, but be warned that you need to be a fairly experienced carpenter to do this well (ie to get a light gate that's still rigid). Design isn't easy and the construction needs the ability to cut some big joints that still fit closely enough to be rigid. Although much carpentry is about pin jointed structures (stiff sticks between floppy joints will still form a rigid structure if you triangulate) a gate (usally) needs to be flat and so this becomes hard to achieve if it's not to flex as you open and close it. Material I'd choose would be Douglas fir. This is stiffer than most, lighter than most (esp. oak) and you'll have a job to find my usual outdoor timber choice of larch in good untwisted sections at this length. I'd get it from http://www.bendreybrothers.co.uk (Bristol area), and their website might give you pricing ideas. Remember that gates are basically triangular, not rectangular, especially when it's big or heavy and you're having to be careful with the structural design. Use the traditional approach of extending the hinge-end upwards, often with a "hockey stick" curve inwards and hanging the main diagonal from that. This diagonal is the main strength of the gate, _not_ the horizontal rails. The more angle you get into it, the more it's working in tension and less in bending (that's why the horizontals can't carry the load). I'd also tend to duplicate it, maybe a 2"x6" on each side of the central rails - that way you get the gate to be thicker (stiffer in bending) whilst not needing to be as heavy as if you beef up the rails. Making the end posts of heavier section (depending on what you can get) also makes the rest of the fence look visually lighter in comparison. One trick is to use an oak knee for the upright, the knee (a curve that grew that way) being the cheapest way to get the shape. Weight this close to the hinge is no problem for either moment or inertia, but it does help to make for stronger joints. I wouldn't make it solid, because of wind load. If you have to for visual privacy, put staggered palings on each side. The rest is just web searching, or a few of those lovely 100-year old books that are reprinted so cheaply these days (Try "The Mid Western Farmer's Compleat Almanac of Gate Building and Hog Husbandry" or something like that, probably published by Dover or Ten-speed Press and sold through Camden steam bookshop). Go easy on the joints. Big single dovetails and their like are your best bet. Complicated enough to still work by wedge action for decades after the nails fell out, simple enough to cut well and to use large robust components. Through bolts rather than screws (bigger than 2" anyway) and a farmer's shop sells a wide range of galv ironwork, hinges and latches. |
#32
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Jun 22, 9:48 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: Matty F wrote: On Jun 22, 10:33 am, Matty F wrote: On Jun 22, 4:26 am, Fred wrote: Hi, A neighbour has a rusty metal gate that he would like to replace. It is fifteen feet wide but the few places he has asked only supply replacements up to 12 feet wide. How easy is it to make a wooden gate that size? What thickness of timber would be required? I presume you use one or more thick diagonals and either leave it open, or if privacy is required, nail T&G on top? I have just made a gate 15 feet wide entirely out of 1.75" square wood. I wanted two swinging gates but there is no room for them to swing so it slides with two wheels on a stainless steel rail instead. It has three rails, four diagonals and 40 pickets and was quite easy to make, although it took me a long time. Here's a pic: http://i42.tinypic.com/2r478dg.jpg That looks really superb. Great job. Thanks. I wasn't going to post any more about it but I see that someone that I thought was a real expert has implied that a thin wooden gate of that width is basically impossible. I thought it would be impossible too, but having built it, it works fine. I don't think it would keep horses in though. |
#33
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wooden gates: how to make?
On 25 June, 08:01, Matty F wrote:
a thin wooden gate of that width is basically impossible. Obviously it's not impossible, but there comes a point when wider gates of thinner scantlings become awkwardly flexible. The fix for this on level crossing gates is to use a wire truss structure as well. The "gate" is wooden and flexible. Along the bottom edges (both side) are a series of iron "pylons" sticking out about 6" from the wood. Diagonal wire bracing beween these (usually taken under the wood, from side pylon to side pylon) makes the effective thickness of the gate 12"-18" and thus a lot stiffer. |
#34
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Jun 25, 9:11 pm, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 25 June, 08:01, Matty F wrote: a thin wooden gate of that width is basically impossible. Obviously it's not impossible, but there comes a point when wider gates of thinner scantlings become awkwardly flexible. The fix for this on level crossing gates is to use a wire truss structure as well. The "gate" is wooden and flexible. Along the bottom edges (both side) are a series of iron "pylons" sticking out about 6" from the wood. Diagonal wire bracing beween these (usually taken under the wood, from side pylon to side pylon) makes the effective thickness of the gate 12"-18" and thus a lot stiffer. I would certainly recommend using two gates instead of one, if that's possible. In my case there is nowhere to swing them to. And I would recommend steel for a 15 foot gate. I just made my gate for almost nothing out of timber I had left over from making the balustrades and fences for my house. I bought a real cheap packet load of about 1500 feet of it. |
#35
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:30:42 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:
I would certainly recommend using two gates instead of one, if that's possible. In my case there is nowhere to swing them to. And I would recommend steel for a 15 foot gate. I still feel that a properly made 15' timber gate is not a problem. http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/3659175057/ 13' timber field gate. Hinge post 5 x 3, slam post 3 x 3, top rail 4 x 3, other rails and braces 3 1/2 x 1. All rails have 3 x 1 mortises right through the posts. The braces are overlap jointed into the top rail and bolted right through the top thin rail and at the apex on the bottom rail. This gate is several years old and hasn't dropped at all, mind the latch does take some of the weight when it is closed as should happen with all gates. For 15' I'd keep the same basic design but might taper the top rail from 5 x 3 to 4 x 3 and have 3 instead of 2 sets of braces, mainly 'cause I think that would look better. -- Cheers Dave. |
#36
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Jun 26, 12:28 am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote: On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:30:42 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote: I would certainly recommend using two gates instead of one, if that's possible. In my case there is nowhere to swing them to. And I would recommend steel for a 15 foot gate. I still feel that a properly made 15' timber gate is not a problem. http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/3659175057/ 13' timber field gate. Hinge post 5 x 3, slam post 3 x 3, top rail 4 x 3, other rails and braces 3 1/2 x 1. All rails have 3 x 1 mortises right through the posts. The braces are overlap jointed into the top rail and bolted right through the top thin rail and at the apex on the bottom rail. This gate is several years old and hasn't dropped at all, mind the latch does take some of the weight when it is closed as should happen with all gates. For 15' I'd keep the same basic design but might taper the top rail from 5 x 3 to 4 x 3 and have 3 instead of 2 sets of braces, mainly 'cause I think that would look better. The braces on my gate match the angle of the gables on my house. Your top rail is four times the cross-section of my top rail, which should stop the gate flexing. |
#37
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wooden gates: how to make?
On 25 June, 13:28, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote: I still feel that a properly made 15' timber gate is not a problem. This gate is several years old and hasn't dropped at all, Dropping isn't the problem, as you have the height of the gate to work with for triangulating it with bracing (like I said before, structurally a gate is a triangle, not a rectangle). The problem you'll encounter first and most awkwardly is horizontal flexing when opening or closing, even some helical twisting, as there isn't enough thickness in the gate to brace it easily. |
#38
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wooden gates: how to make?
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:28:21 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote: I still feel that a properly made 15' timber gate is not a problem. http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/3659175057/ 13' timber field gate. Hinge post 5 x 3, slam post 3 x 3, top rail 4 x 3, other rails and braces 3 1/2 x 1. All rails have 3 x 1 mortises right through the posts. The braces are overlap jointed into the top rail and bolted right through the top thin rail and at the apex on the bottom rail. This gate is several years old and hasn't dropped at all, mind the latch does take some of the weight when it is closed as should happen with all gates. For 15' I'd keep the same basic design but might taper the top rail from 5 x 3 to 4 x 3 and have 3 instead of 2 sets of braces, mainly 'cause I think that would look better. Hello again, That's a nice looking gate Dave, well done. I am confused because each person I ask suggests a different timber size. The Canadian pdf given earlier in the thread suggests 6"x2", though to be fair, it is for keeping livestock in (or out). I phoned the timer merchant to ask for a price for some 6x2 redwood and he called me back and said he had made a 13' gate of 3x1: half the size. Whilst there will be no cattle, some concerns on this thread have been about the gate flexing. Would bigger timber mean more rigidity? A carpenter told my neighbour not to use cedar; I don't know why, I don't think cedar was ever mentioned and he said softwood would not last. OTOH Dave's softwood gate has lasted, so I think that provided it was treated, it should be ok. The nice thing about Dave's gate is that the rails are morticed. The Canadian plans show the rails and stiles simply on top of each other (full lap?) and simply bolted through. The fixing is not clear on the illustration but it looks as thought hey have used five bolts or nails per rail end. Morticing the joints must make the gate look flush and prettier? I wonder if it has any mechanical impact? I am most confused about the diagonal bracing. The Canadian plans: http://www.cps.gov.on.ca/english/pla...8364/8364L.pdf show the brace running from the top of the hinge side to the bottom of the corner of the unhinged side. This echoes what Andy said in one of his replies. But... I've just received a copy of an article from the New Zealand "shed magazine", found via google it's a magazine with projects for New Zealanders to make in their sheds. They have made a farm gate from 4x2 but they state that the brace must run from the bottom of the hinged side to the top of the unhinged side: the exact opposite of the Canadian's and Andy's plans! To quote the article: "the diagonal struts have to go down to meet the hinge at the bottom corner, not the other way round, to provide support for the compression. Otherwise the timber in the gate would be expanding and pulling apart, not being forced together". Have they got this wrong? OTOH Dave's diagonals are V shaped and his gate has held together, so perhaps is it not that important? Rather than mortice the joints the NZ'ers have put sandwiched the rails between two stiles on each side and put one bolt through each rail. I think that might be a nice compromise as it makes the gate prettier without the hassle of having to mortice (as neither of us have bench drills and mortice attachments). Of course, I would have to use thinner timber as three layers of 6x2 would make a very wide gate! Thanks again. |
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