Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

David wrote:
We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

We find running the water through a Brita water filter before putting it
in the kettle works. The Brita filters have an ion exchange resin which
removes the hardness.

David wrote:
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon should
be plenty

On 16 Feb, 17:29, Stuart Noble wrote:
David wrote:
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon should
be plenty

Thanks for the replies Jim and Stuart, I'll give the citric acid a
whirl

Jim wrote:
David wrote:
We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

We find running the water through a Brita water filter before putting it
in the kettle works. The Brita filters have an ion exchange resin which
removes the hardness.

B&Q does a liquid descaler called Kilrock-K at about two quid which is
brilliant.

Peter Scott

In message
,
David writes
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

Anything acidic will work. So vinegar will work, but it needs rinsing
well afterwards, and it will need leaving for a while as it's not that
strong an acid. Ditto lemon juice I guess. Bicarb won't work.

Buying some citric acid powder from a chemist, or hardware shop is
probably cheapest
--
Chris French

On 16 Feb, 17:29, Stuart Noble wrote:

Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon should
be plenty

So long as you use it in time. Citric acid won't shift really thick
scale once it's built up - then you're back to the sulphamic and the
formic.

Personally I didn't mind thick scale so much, as it stayed where it
was and I could descale it from time to time. The stuff that really
annoyed was thin scale that was brittle enough to flake off the
element end up in my tea.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:04:44 -0800 (PST), David
wrote:

Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

Vinegar works a treat - a 50/50 mix with water is usually sufficient,
just bung in enough to cover the element plus a bit more for luck,
then pop the kettle on. You might have to turn it off just before the
boil to prevent foaming.
You can vary the mix if you have a lot of scale to remove - even use
neat vinegar.

I've always used it in my kettles and dishwashers - never been tempted
to try anything harsher.

Regards.



--
Stephen Howard
Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk

chris French wrote:

Buying some citric acid powder from a chemist, or hardware shop is
probably cheapest

Under the NuLabr rule of terror, asking for citric acid sees one branded
as a drug dealer.

The correct acid to use for descaling is sulphamic acid. This has the
advantage that it's impossible to make a strong solution of sulphamic
acid because it's not very soluble.

You can buy it he http://www.mistralni.co.uk/ for £14 a Kg, and a
kilo will last a good long time.

(Steve Firth) wrote:
chris French wrote:
Buying some citric acid powder from a chemist, or hardware shop is
probably cheapest

Under the NuLabr rule of terror, asking for citric acid sees one branded
as a drug dealer.

You may be able to get it in bulk from a homebrew supplier or commercial
coffee supplier.

Stuart Noble wrote:
David wrote:
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of
soda or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon
should be plenty

Where can you buy it Stuart?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 16 Feb, 17:04, David wrote:
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

+1 for a Brita filter and don't leave your kettle standing with water
in it.

Lino expert wrote:
On 16 Feb, 17:04, David wrote:
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of
soda or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

+1 for a Brita filter and don't leave your kettle standing with water
in it.

Should it be sitting down than?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:16:46 UTC, Jim wrote:

(Steve Firth) wrote:
chris French wrote:
Buying some citric acid powder from a chemist, or hardware shop is
probably cheapest

Under the NuLabr rule of terror, asking for citric acid sees one branded
as a drug dealer.

You may be able to get it in bulk from a homebrew supplier or commercial
coffee supplier.

I get ours from the local vegetarian food shop - strangely named "Veggie
Perrin's"!
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"David" wrote in message
...
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

We always use Waitrose descaler and find that it works perfectly well. You
can also slow the build up of scale if you empty he kettle fully after each
use.

David - Milton Keynes

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
David wrote:
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of
soda or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.
Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon
should be plenty

Where can you buy it Stuart?



Local chemist has it, and so do any of the big supermarket pharmacies. I
was asked in Sainsburys what I wanted it for, and I said for drug
refining. She said I didn't look the type and handed it over. Silly business

Stuart Noble wrote in message
om...

Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon
should be plenty

Where can you buy it Stuart?



Local chemist has it, and so do any of the big supermarket pharmacies. I
was asked in Sainsburys what I wanted it for, and I said for drug
refining. She said I didn't look the type and handed it over. Silly
business

I went into 3 pharmacies last week to buy some isopropyl alcohol, got the
same response in each.
Oh no we don't keep anything like that anymore
and we would not be allowed to sell it anyway
thank god for the internet,I bought 5 litres just in case it gets banned
completely.


-

On 16 Feb, 20:48, "David Klyne"
wrote:
"David" wrote in message

...

Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

We always use Waitrose descaler and find that it works perfectly well. You
can also slow the build up of scale if you empty he kettle fully after each
use.

David - Milton Keynes

I used the de scaler from Aldi and it works a treat, so does the cheap
one pound one you get in Asda named Keep it handy.
I was just wondering if there was an alternative to using chemicals.

David wrote:
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.


Get a tub of Fernox DS3 - costs about £15 but will make over 100 gallons
of descaler (literally). Works fast (best in hot water).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:49:39 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon
should be plenty

Where can you buy it Stuart?

Cheapest place is usually your local Indian food shop. Last I bought
was about £3 a Kilo.

Peter Parry wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:49:39 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon
should be plenty

Where can you buy it Stuart?

Cheapest place is usually your local Indian food shop. Last I bought
was about £3 a Kilo.

What do they use it for then?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

David wrote:
On 16 Feb, 20:48, "David Klyne"
wrote:
"David" wrote in message

...

Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of
soda or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

We always use Waitrose descaler and find that it works perfectly
well. You can also slow the build up of scale if you empty he kettle
fully after each use.

David - Milton Keynes

I used the de scaler from Aldi and it works a treat, so does the cheap
one pound one you get in Asda named Keep it handy.
I was just wondering if there was an alternative to using chemicals.

Water is a chemical, as is scale :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"David" wrote in message
...

I was just wondering if there was an alternative to using chemicals.

Dremel and wire brush.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
m...
Peter Parry wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:49:39 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon
should be plenty

Where can you buy it Stuart?

Cheapest place is usually your local Indian food shop. Last I bought
was about £3 a Kilo.

What do they use it for then?

Citric acid is a natural preservative and can be used as a disinfectant and
is MAF approved for the prevention of foot and mouth

Des

Dieseldes wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message m...
Peter Parry wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:49:39 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon
should be plenty

Where can you buy it Stuart?

Cheapest place is usually your local Indian food shop. Last I
bought was about £3 a Kilo.

What do they use it for then?

Citric acid is a natural preservative and can be used as a
disinfectant and is MAF approved for the prevention of foot and mouth

I knew it was a food additive, but I never knew that.

Is the preservative effect the reason for its use in Indian cooking then?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:24:41 GMT, "Mark" wrote:


Stuart Noble wrote in message
. com...

Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon
should be plenty

Where can you buy it Stuart?



Local chemist has it, and so do any of the big supermarket pharmacies. I
was asked in Sainsburys what I wanted it for, and I said for drug
refining. She said I didn't look the type and handed it over. Silly
business

I went into 3 pharmacies last week to buy some isopropyl alcohol, got the
same response in each.
Oh no we don't keep anything like that anymore
and we would not be allowed to sell it anyway

I've had similar problems trying to buy both citric acid and bor(ac)ic
acid.
Once upon a time (not that long ago) you could go into almost any
proper 'chemist shop' and buy almost any useful chemicals, such as
carbon tetrachloride, saltpetre, chloroform, ether, even litmus paper
- I had no problem buying any of the above as an obvious youngster.
Nowadays it seems that the dreaded guvmint thinks that anybody trying
to purchase such things must be either a druggie or a terrorist.

Little wonder that this country is now short of
scientists/technologists.

ps - the chloroform and ether I used to mix with
turnings/filings/scraps of Perspex to make Perspex adhesive.
--
Frank Erskine

David wrote:
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

Any acid will attack the scale. Citric is the one that's safe in all
appliances, others can attack parts of the appliance. Also citric is
food, many of the others aren't. Its also very cheap, think I paid 40p
a pop last time, from chemists'. Expect them to ask if you want it for
heroin though, that seems to be its main use.

Add citric, boil kettle, leave it overnight. Rinse well before using
the water.


NT

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:04:44 -0800 (PST)
David wrote:

Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

Long long ago I bought a house with badly fured pipes in a hard water
area. It took an age to run a bath.

My Dad, who was an industrial chemist, 'obtained' from work about five
kilos of citric acid powder which we dissolved in the cold tank one day
before a holiday (having drained the hot tank first). Refilled
the hot tank, and ran all the taps for a bit until the lemon juice came
out. Then went away for two weeks. (I think he poped in from time to
time to run the taps again actually).

When we got back the problem was cured. It took a while for the lemons
to disappear from the bath water though.

R.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:57:56 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Peter Parry wrote:

Cheapest place is usually your local Indian food shop. Last I bought
was about £3 a Kilo.

What do they use it for then?

As a bittering agent and as a cheaper alternative to lemon juice or
tamarind in making things like spiced fish. Citric Acid (Tartri or
Saji (na) phool or Nimboo ka Sat) is also used in making lemonade,
curdling milk to make chenna (Indian cottage cheese) and as an
alternative to vinegar.

It's also used as a cleaning agent.

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:24:41 GMT, "Mark" wrote:


Stuart Noble wrote in message
om...

Citric acid was 69p for 150 gms last time I looked. A tablespoon
should be plenty

Where can you buy it Stuart?



Local chemist has it, and so do any of the big supermarket
pharmacies. I was asked in Sainsburys what I wanted it for, and I
said for drug refining. She said I didn't look the type and handed
it over. Silly business

I went into 3 pharmacies last week to buy some isopropyl alcohol,
got the same response in each.
Oh no we don't keep anything like that anymore
and we would not be allowed to sell it anyway

I've had similar problems trying to buy both citric acid and bor(ac)ic
acid.
Once upon a time (not that long ago) you could go into almost any
proper 'chemist shop' and buy almost any useful chemicals, such as
carbon tetrachloride, saltpetre, chloroform, ether, even litmus paper
- I had no problem buying any of the above as an obvious youngster.
Nowadays it seems that the dreaded guvmint thinks that anybody trying
to purchase such things must be either a druggie or a terrorist.

Little wonder that this country is now short of
scientists/technologists.

ps - the chloroform and ether I used to mix with
turnings/filings/scraps of Perspex to make Perspex adhesive.

A likely story...


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:58:11 +0000, Anne Welsh Jackson wrote
(in article ):

Or, better still, just boil the amount of water you actually need,
in the first place! Saves on the electricity bill...


I've often read or heard that advice but when I attempt that, half the time I
find I've not boiled quite enough - which ends up being even more wasteful.

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire

Mike Lane wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:58:11 +0000, Anne Welsh Jackson wrote
(in article ):

Or, better still, just boil the amount of water you actually need,
in the first place! Saves on the electricity bill...


I've often read or heard that advice but when I attempt that, half the time I
find I've not boiled quite enough - which ends up being even more wasteful.

Our kettle has quite a decent scale (on the outside, not lumps inside!).
Makes filling to the right level quite easy - most of the time. Just
need to remember - pot of coffee = 1; pot of tea = 1.5. And we fill it
while it is standing flat on a surface - so it reads properly.

(The first kettle I used with a scale had a tube up the side - which
within weeks scaled up and didn't properly reflect the contents. This
one is an integral 'window'.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:30:27 +0000, Mike Lane wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:58:11 +0000, Anne Welsh Jackson wrote
(in article ):

Or, better still, just boil the amount of water you actually need,
in the first place! Saves on the electricity bill...


I've often read or heard that advice but when I attempt that, half the time I
find I've not boiled quite enough - which ends up being even more wasteful.

I can judge it to about +-20ml (sad).
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

Anne Welsh Jackson wrote:
"David Klyne" wrote:
"David" wrote:
Hello,

We live in a very hard water area and the kettle scales up very very
quickly, I have always used de scaler tablets or powder to de scale
the kettle however I was wondering if there was another way of doing
it as the price of de scaler is working out to be quite expensive.

I have Googled it and most people suggest vinegar, bicarbonate of soda
or lemon juice, somehow I don't have any faith in those things.

We always use Waitrose descaler and find that it works perfectly well.
You can also slow the build up of scale if you empty he kettle fully after
each use.

Or, better still, just boil the amount of water you actually need,
in the first place! Saves on the electricity bill...

But not a lot, is it really worth the hassle (and the nuisance when
you miscalculate)? Not to mention that the 'wasted' heat isn't wasted
but warms up your kitchen a bit.

A 3kw kettle (they're mostly only 2.5kw I think) running for five
minutes will consume 3/12 kwh, that'll cost around 5p I think at
current prices. So if I manage to save even 30% of that by careful
filling I've saved 1.5p per boil. Even three times a day for the
whole year that only makes £15 or so, and, as I said it'll heat the
kitchen so you'll save a bit on heating.

Now calculate how much you save turning off the standby on the TV in
the kitchen as well and you'll realise how stupid most of these
'energy saving' ideas are.

Boiling kettles and standby are not big energy consumers so trying to
minimise them is next to pointless.

--
Chris Green

wrote in message
...

A 3kw kettle (they're mostly only 2.5kw I think) running for five
minutes will consume 3/12 kwh, that'll cost around 5p I think at
current prices. So if I manage to save even 30% of that by careful
filling I've saved 1.5p per boil. Even three times a day for the
whole year that only makes £15 or so, and, as I said it'll heat the
kitchen so you'll save a bit on heating.

Now calculate how much you save turning off the standby on the TV in
the kitchen as well and you'll realise how stupid most of these
'energy saving' ideas are.

Boiling kettles and standby are not big energy consumers so trying to
minimise them is next to pointless.

Look after the pennies, and the pounds will look after themselves ;-)

On 17 Feb, 09:50, "Harry Stottle" wrote:

Look after the pennies, and the pounds will look after themselves ;-)

Look after the pounds and you can employ someone to count the pennies
for you.

Harry Stottle wrote:

wrote in message
...

A 3kw kettle (they're mostly only 2.5kw I think) running for five
minutes will consume 3/12 kwh, that'll cost around 5p I think at
current prices. So if I manage to save even 30% of that by careful
filling I've saved 1.5p per boil. Even three times a day for the
whole year that only makes £15 or so, and, as I said it'll heat the
kitchen so you'll save a bit on heating.

Now calculate how much you save turning off the standby on the TV in
the kitchen as well and you'll realise how stupid most of these
'energy saving' ideas are.

Boiling kettles and standby are not big energy consumers so trying to
minimise them is next to pointless.

Look after the pennies, and the pounds will look after themselves ;-)

A little of a little makes a very little

On 17 Feb, 09:50, "Harry Stottle" wrote:

filling I've saved 1.5p per boil. *Even three times a day for the
whole year that only makes £15 or so,

And that is more than equal to the cost of a week and half's holiday
with the Sun newspaper...

You rich bar stewards might be able to afford £15 a year but some of
us actually live in the real world!

In article ,
Frank Erskine writes:

ps - the chloroform and ether I used to mix with
turnings/filings/scraps of Perspex to make Perspex adhesive.

Used to be able to buy that as, IIRC, "Tensol Cement".
My dad has a can of it, which still worked fine when I
last needed a bit a couple of years ago, in spite of the
label saying "Use by Aug 1968".

I found Superglue also works well on perspex by means of
making a solvent weld.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

wrote:
Thus spake ) unto the assembled
multitudes:
Boiling kettles and standby are not big energy consumers so trying to
minimise them is next to pointless.

On an individual basis it may seem like that, but think of the millions of
devices plugged in and on standby across the nation, then you have the
equivalent of a small power station's output being wasted.

Given that two Google searches consume enough energy to boil a kettle, I
wonder what the energy cost of making a Usenet post is.