[YAPH]

What does one need to do to test portable appliances (e.g. convector
heaters)? Is it just insulation (phase and neutral to CPC) and earth
continuity (CPC on plug to metalwork on appliance)? Figures? I've a
multifunction tester but not a dedicated PAT tester. And what paperwork -
qualifications and report forms - are necessary? I've a 16th edition
(about to upgrade to 16th) and member of competent person scheme.

(Sorry I know I could STFW, just hoping someone knows off the top of their
heads. Our charity-run school is looking for heaters to supplement their
sometimes-tempermental central heating system and I suspect they'll need
PATting for Elfin Safety.)

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

If we'd known how much fun grandchildren are
we'd have had them first

[Andy Wade]

YAPH wrote:
What does one need to do to test portable appliances (e.g. convector
heaters)? Is it just insulation (phase and neutral to CPC) and earth
continuity (CPC on plug to metalwork on appliance)? Figures? I've a
multifunction tester but not a dedicated PAT tester.

There's more to it than just testing. Everything you need to know is in
the IEE code of practice:
http://www.theiet.org/publishing/books/wir-reg/cop.cfm

But briefly:

- visual inspection (the most important part)

- earth continuity (0.1 ohm plus the resistance of the earth
conductor in the flex (if any))

- insulation resistance (0.3 megohm for 3 kW Class 1 heaters,
1 megohm for all other Class 1 equipment)

--
Andy

[OG]

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
What does one need to do to test portable appliances (e.g. convector
heaters)? Is it just insulation (phase and neutral to CPC) and earth
continuity (CPC on plug to metalwork on appliance)? Figures? I've a
multifunction tester but not a dedicated PAT tester. And what paperwork -
qualifications and report forms - are necessary? I've a 16th edition
(about to upgrade to 16th) and member of competent person scheme.

(Sorry I know I could STFW, just hoping someone knows off the top of their
heads. Our charity-run school is looking for heaters to supplement their
sometimes-tempermental central heating system and I suspect they'll need
PATting for Elfin Safety.)


Don't know about what goes on in your area, but our council supports a local
CVS organisation to support local charities and voluntary associations. This
provides a PA Testing service for these groups.
I don't know what the status of your school is (after all, Eton is a charity
run school to some extent :-) ), but it may be worth contacting your council
to see whether there are facilities in place for you.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
YAPH writes:
What does one need to do to test portable appliances (e.g. convector
heaters)? Is it just insulation (phase and neutral to CPC) and earth
continuity (CPC on plug to metalwork on appliance)? Figures? I've a
multifunction tester but not a dedicated PAT tester. And what paperwork -
qualifications and report forms - are necessary? I've a 16th edition
(about to upgrade to 16th) and member of competent person scheme.

City and Guilds 2377-02 (and normally do 2377-01 at the same time).
These are easily obtainable by anyone who knows how to wire a plug,
and knows the difference between milliohms and megohms. They are
intended to be achievable by non-electricians. Usually taught as a
day each including the exam. If you haven't used any of the PAT test
kit before and will be deciding on buying some, choose somewhere which
does some practical testing during the training, so you can see what
features different testers have. (There's no practical in the exam,
so some places may not do any on the course either).

Note that even quite competent electricians who haven't done PAT
training are IME completely incompetent at PAT testing, so even if
you are hiring an electrician to to PAT testing, you should ensure
they have 2377-02, as that's normally not on the beaten path of
electrician training. The really big clue that someone hasn't been
trained and doesn't know what they're doing is that they start buy
plugging the appliance into a PAT tester. (Nearly all PAT test
failures are picked up by the visual inspection, and most of those
are not detectable by a PAT tester.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[whisky-dave]

"OG" wrote in message
...

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
What does one need to do to test portable appliances (e.g. convector
heaters)? Is it just insulation (phase and neutral to CPC) and earth
continuity (CPC on plug to metalwork on appliance)? Figures? I've a
multifunction tester but not a dedicated PAT tester. And what paperwork -
qualifications and report forms - are necessary? I've a 16th edition
(about to upgrade to 16th) and member of competent person scheme.

(Sorry I know I could STFW, just hoping someone knows off the top of
their
heads. Our charity-run school is looking for heaters to supplement their
sometimes-tempermental central heating system and I suspect they'll need
PATting for Elfin Safety.)


Don't know about what goes on in your area, but our council supports a
local CVS organisation to support local charities and voluntary
associations. This provides a PA Testing service for these groups.

Just suppose someone gets electrocuted by an appliance that has been PAT
tested OK and has since become faulty, who 'gets it in the neck'
working at a college there was a time when it was considered the PAT testers
responsibility and rather than college system taking the blame it was a good
way
of shifting the blame on to the PAT tester saving the college possible
claims against it
for the incident. At the time we were also told that nothing should go in to
use until
it has been PAT tested this included anything brought, and nothing could be
used
until tested.

[John]

whisky-dave wrote:
"OG" wrote in message
...

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
What does one need to do to test portable appliances (e.g. convector
heaters)? Is it just insulation (phase and neutral to CPC) and earth
continuity (CPC on plug to metalwork on appliance)? Figures? I've a
multifunction tester but not a dedicated PAT tester. And what
paperwork - qualifications and report forms - are necessary? I've a
16th edition (about to upgrade to 16th) and member of competent
person scheme. (Sorry I know I could STFW, just hoping someone knows off
the top of
their
heads. Our charity-run school is looking for heaters to supplement
their sometimes-tempermental central heating system and I suspect
they'll need PATting for Elfin Safety.)


Don't know about what goes on in your area, but our council supports
a local CVS organisation to support local charities and voluntary
associations. This provides a PA Testing service for these groups.

Just suppose someone gets electrocuted by an appliance that has been
PAT tested OK and has since become faulty, who 'gets it in the neck'

Surely it operates like a car MOT, ie, the tester gives it a pass and that
pass is only valid on the day and that particular time - if it goes faulty
tomorrow, not the testers fault. It was OK and passed the test at the time.


working at a college there was a time when it was considered the PAT
testers responsibility and rather than college system taking the
blame it was a good way
of shifting the blame on to the PAT tester saving the college possible
claims against it
for the incident. At the time we were also told that nothing should
go in to use until
it has been PAT tested this included anything brought, and nothing
could be used
until tested.

[PJK]

YAPH wrote:
What does one need to do to test portable appliances (e.g. convector
heaters)? Is it just insulation (phase and neutral to CPC) and earth
continuity (CPC on plug to metalwork on appliance)? Figures? I've a
multifunction tester but not a dedicated PAT tester. And what paperwork -
qualifications and report forms - are necessary? I've a 16th edition
(about to upgrade to 16th) and member of competent person scheme.

(Sorry I know I could STFW, just hoping someone knows off the top of their
heads. Our charity-run school is looking for heaters to supplement their
sometimes-tempermental central heating system and I suspect they'll need
PATting for Elfin Safety.)

Good advice he

http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/july.htm

Peter.

[Andy Dingley]

On 29 Jan, 14:33, "whisky-dave" wrote:

Just suppose someone gets electrocuted by an appliance that has been PAT
tested OK and has since become faulty, who 'gets it in the neck'

There is no statutory requirement to PAT test.

There is a statutory requirement to manage risk, by assessing it and
then taking action _as_appropriate_.

PAT testing _may_ be decided to be part of that. If you're a high-risk
environment, even typical PAT testing procedures or schedules might
not be considered as competent for it. If you're a "typical office"
then one simple situation is to decide that brand new equipment
doesn't need to be PAT tested on arrival (and how often have we seen
the pointless ritual of "cutting off the new plugs" etc.)

So if someone gets a zap, why? Is it a "do nothing" policy that's
inadequate (who agreed that?) Clearly damaged equipment that was used
regardless (Is there an effective policy for getting things fixed?
What does you new starter training say to do?) How did it become
faulty, misuse or fair wear? Does the inspection interval need to be
shorter, or to have specific inspections added to it? (testing off-
site kit whenever it returns is a prime need).

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:12:20 -0000, John wrote:

Just suppose someone gets electrocuted by an appliance that has been
PAT tested OK and has since become faulty, who 'gets it in the neck'

Surely it operates like a car MOT, ie, the tester gives it a pass and
that pass is only valid on the day and that particular time - if it goes
faulty tomorrow, not the testers fault. It was OK and passed the test at
the time.

That would be the common sense and realistic approach but since when have
elfen safety people had common sense. An awful lot are nothing more than
jumped up box tickers and buck passers.

It boils down to the person doing the PAT tests to keep proper and
complete records of the kit they test. Make/model, serial number(s),
details of test (possibly inc measurements of insulation/conductivity
rather than just "PASS"). Free text comments for stuff that although not a
PAT fail may have implications on the safe use of the equipment etc. IE
the PAT tester needs to cover their arse...
At the time we were also told that nothing should go in to use until
it has been PAT tested this included anything brought, and nothing
could be used until tested.

For brand new kit that does on te face of it appear to be a bit OTT but it
reality it isn't. There have been far to many cases where brand new
moulded mains leads have been assembled incorrectly or have incorrect fuse
values for the kit they came with etc.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[[email protected]]

On 29 Jan, 17:01, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 29 Jan, 14:33, "whisky-dave" wrote:

Just suppose someone gets electrocuted by an appliance that has been PAT
tested OK and has since become faulty, who 'gets it in the neck'

There is no statutory requirement to PAT test.

There is a statutory requirement to manage risk, by assessing it and
then taking action _as_appropriate_.

PAT testing _may_ be decided to be part of that. If you're a high-risk
environment, even typical PAT testing procedures or schedules might
not be considered as competent for it. If you're a "typical office"
then one simple situation is to decide that brand new equipment
doesn't need to be PAT tested on arrival (and how often have we seen
the pointless ritual of "cutting off the new plugs" etc.)

So if someone gets a zap, why? Is it a "do nothing" policy that's
inadequate (who agreed that?) Clearly damaged equipment that was used
regardless (Is there an effective policy for getting things fixed?
What does you new starter training say to do?) How did it become
faulty, misuse or fair wear? Does the inspection interval need to be
shorter, or to have specific inspections added to it? (testing off-
site kit whenever it returns is a prime need).

I understand the point you make there, Andy. But, to be irritating
doesn't "testing off-site kit whenever it returns" mean that a laptop
power supply would be tested every time you went into the office with
it (in some cases daily).

At one point, the University of Westminster had a policy that students
were not allowed to power their laptops from University supplies.
(That policy may still be in force). The reasoning was cited that such
equipment needed PA testing, and the university were not going to do
that for the students' laptops. The students, unsurprisingly, were not
too happy at this policy.

Cheers,

Sid

[Rod]

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 29 Jan, 14:33, "whisky-dave" wrote:

Just suppose someone gets electrocuted by an appliance that has been PAT
tested OK and has since become faulty, who 'gets it in the neck'

There is no statutory requirement to PAT test.

There is a statutory requirement to manage risk, by assessing it and
then taking action _as_appropriate_.

PAT testing _may_ be decided to be part of that. If you're a high-risk
environment, even typical PAT testing procedures or schedules might
not be considered as competent for it. If you're a "typical office"
then one simple situation is to decide that brand new equipment
doesn't need to be PAT tested on arrival (and how often have we seen
the pointless ritual of "cutting off the new plugs" etc.)

So if someone gets a zap, why? Is it a "do nothing" policy that's
inadequate (who agreed that?) Clearly damaged equipment that was used
regardless (Is there an effective policy for getting things fixed?
What does you new starter training say to do?) How did it become
faulty, misuse or fair wear? Does the inspection interval need to be
shorter, or to have specific inspections added to it? (testing off-
site kit whenever it returns is a prime need).

Last time I saw a PAT tester at work, we discussed this. The plan seemed
to be that new equipment could be used - and would simply be on the
testing list the next time he came (up to a year hence). In the ordinary
office environment, that seemed perfectly reasonable.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

[ARWadsworth]

wrote in message
...
On 29 Jan, 17:01, Andy Dingley wrote:
snip

At one point, the University of Westminster had a policy that students
were not allowed to power their laptops from University supplies.
(That policy may still be in force). The reasoning was cited that such
equipment needed PA testing, and the university were not going to do
that for the students' laptops. The students, unsurprisingly, were not
too happy at this policy.

Cheers,

Sid

**** me. Someone who uses the correct name. PA testing not PAT testing.

Adam

[Andy Dingley]

On 29 Jan, 17:14, wrote:

I understand the point you make there, Andy. But, to be irritating
doesn't "testing off-site kit whenever it returns" mean that a laptop
power supply would be tested every time you went into the office with
it (in some cases daily).

No, it means that the overall product of the intellect of the people
writing the guidelines and those reading them needs to be roughly
constant. If you're writing _for_ idiots, then take more care in your
wording.

A laptop is a reliable device with a particularly simple and robust
power supply, compared to a stage lighting rig. It also has a low
likelihood of damage or injury if damaged (again, compared to a
lighting rig). You might break it, but are unlikely to break it in a
way that creates great risk.

If your "offsite" kit is laptops, then have a policy based on
awareness of damage and infrequent inspection.

If you hire generators, check the oil every morning.

[Andy Dingley]

On 29 Jan, 17:31, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Someone who uses the correct name. PA testing not PAT testing.

Isn't PA Testing "portable appliance testing" in a generic sense,
whilst "PAT Testing" is "Testing according to the specific UK PAT
rules for the testing of portable appliances" ? "PAT" is a term that
has outgrown acronym status and become a definable concept, thus
treatable as a pure noun beyond the inclusion of the verb.

[ARWadsworth]

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 29 Jan, 17:31, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Someone who uses the correct name. PA testing not PAT testing.

Isn't PA Testing "portable appliance testing" in a generic sense,
whilst "PAT Testing" is "Testing according to the specific UK PAT
rules for the testing of portable appliances" ? "PAT" is a term that
has outgrown acronym status and become a definable concept, thus
treatable as a pure noun beyond the inclusion of the verb.

Maybe, and people play RPG games and so on.

Adam

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "ARWadsworth"
saying something like:

**** me. Someone who uses the correct name. PA testing not PAT testing.

PA Testing (of both types) is often noisy and irritating.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Liquorice"
saying something like:

For brand new kit that does on te face of it appear to be a bit OTT but it
reality it isn't. There have been far to many cases where brand new
moulded mains leads have been assembled incorrectly or have incorrect fuse
values for the kit they came with etc.

Ba-ding!
I bought a mini light table that came with an unfused moulded 13A plug.
Dodgy as ****, I thought.

[Andy Dingley]

On 29 Jan, 21:22, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

I bought a mini light table that came with an unfused moulded 13A plug.
Dodgy as ****, I thought.

Supplier validation should pick that up, even before you've seen the
product,

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:10:14 -0800 (PST), Andy Dingley wrote:

I bought a mini light table that came with an unfused moulded 13A plug.

Supplier validation should pick that up, even before you've seen the
product,

Operative word that "should", I know of several occasions where every one
of brand new out of the packet stuff has been incorrectly assembled.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Andy Dingley]

On 30 Jan, 09:27, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:10:14 -0800 (PST), Andy Dingley wrote:
I bought a mini light table that came with an unfused moulded 13A plug.

Supplier validation should pick that up, even before you've seen the
product,

Operative word that "should", I know of several occasions where every one
of brand new out of the packet stuff has been incorrectly assembled.

Supplier validation should pick that up: don't use crap suppliers.
This is why I just never buy any Ring product.

[ARWadsworth]

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 29 Jan, 17:31, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Someone who uses the correct name. PA testing not PAT testing.

Isn't PA Testing "portable appliance testing" in a generic sense,
whilst "PAT Testing" is "Testing according to the specific UK PAT
rules for the testing of portable appliances" ? "PAT" is a term that
has outgrown acronym status and become a definable concept, thus
treatable as a pure noun beyond the inclusion of the verb.

I found these Andy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)

Adam

[Man at B&Q]

On Jan 29, 2:33*pm, "whisky-dave" wrote:
At the time we were also told that nothing should go in to
use until
it has been PAT tested this included anything brought, and nothing could be
used
until tested.

That's just some local jobsworth imposing their own idea of elfin
safety. I've found exactly the opposite, where newly bought items
specifically did not need to be tested until the next scheduled visit
of the tester.

MBQ

[whisky-dave]

"John" invalid@invalid wrote in message
news
whisky-dave wrote:
"OG" wrote in message
...

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
What does one need to do to test portable appliances (e.g. convector
heaters)? Is it just insulation (phase and neutral to CPC) and earth
continuity (CPC on plug to metalwork on appliance)? Figures? I've a
multifunction tester but not a dedicated PAT tester. And what
paperwork - qualifications and report forms - are necessary? I've a
16th edition (about to upgrade to 16th) and member of competent
person scheme. (Sorry I know I could STFW, just hoping someone knows
off the top of
their
heads. Our charity-run school is looking for heaters to supplement
their sometimes-tempermental central heating system and I suspect
they'll need PATting for Elfin Safety.)


Don't know about what goes on in your area, but our council supports
a local CVS organisation to support local charities and voluntary
associations. This provides a PA Testing service for these groups.

Just suppose someone gets electrocuted by an appliance that has been
PAT tested OK and has since become faulty, who 'gets it in the neck'

Surely it operates like a car MOT, ie, the tester gives it a pass and that
pass is only valid on the day and that particular time - if it goes faulty
tomorrow, not the testers fault. It was OK and passed the test at the
time.

A few years ago a few of our bench power supplies failed the PAT test
for earthing as IIRC the resistance required for the Earth conductor had
been lower.
On those PSU that failed I just kept shortening the mains lead until they
passed.
I also had to file away at the case to make sure of earth continuity.
Eventually I gave up and refused to do it, and suggested they get some upto
date
equipment that would pass, rather than me doing stuff to pass it.
These units were from the early 80s.

[whisky-dave]

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
...
On 29 Jan, 17:01, Andy Dingley wrote:
snip

At one point, the University of Westminster had a policy that students
were not allowed to power their laptops from University supplies.

we had that problem too, the main problem was teh number needed to be
tested,
we weren;t talking about a few plugs here and there.
With 100-200 new students each year in our dept alone and one person being
given one day a weeek to do all PAT'ing (include 7,500 appliances in the
dept.) it got too difficult.
And there was the problem of what if while testing it damaged the computer,
especially where insulation tests are used.

(That policy may still be in force). The reasoning was cited that such
equipment needed PA testing, and the university were not going to do
that for the students' laptops. The students, unsurprisingly, were not
too happy at this policy.

I think we've given up now, all I do is a visual check I couldn't even get
a decision on whether or not we should allow shaver socket adapters that
students use
with their two pin laptop PSUs. I have stopped one student using a pen in
the earth socket
so he could jam in his two prong plug in to 3 pin bench socket.
But at least the lab is RCD protected.

[Andy Dingley]

On 30 Jan, 14:16, "whisky-dave" wrote:

Eventually I gave up and refused to do it, and suggested they get some upto
date equipment that would pass, rather than me doing stuff to pass it.

You're not allowed to complain unless you're in a chemistry
department. The shortages and hacks those guys are having to put up
with are quite staggeringly bad these days. 8-(

[whisky-dave]

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "ARWadsworth"
saying something like:

**** me. Someone who uses the correct name. PA testing not PAT testing.

PA Testing (of both types) is often noisy and irritating.

So are those that tell you your equipment has failed the test so buy new
kit.

[Mike Harrison]

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:14:19 -0800 (PST), Andy Dingley wrote:

On 29 Jan, 17:14, wrote:

I understand the point you make there, Andy. But, to be irritating
doesn't "testing off-site kit whenever it returns" mean that a laptop
power supply would be tested every time you went into the office with
it (in some cases daily).

No, it means that the overall product of the intellect of the people
writing the guidelines and those reading them needs to be roughly
constant. If you're writing _for_ idiots, then take more care in your
wording.

A laptop is a reliable device with a particularly simple and robust
power supply, compared to a stage lighting rig. It also has a low
likelihood of damage or injury if damaged (again, compared to a
lighting rig). You might break it, but are unlikely to break it in a
way that creates great risk.

Assuming it is genuine....
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/acadapter.html

[Andy Dingley]

On 30 Jan, 14:43, Mike Harrison wrote:

Assuming it is genuine....http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/acadapter.html

Again, you have to validate that your suppliers are competent (or in
this case, plain dishonest). There's nothing wrong with sourcing
through eBay, but you have to apply appropriate levels of inbound
inspection according to where you got it.

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:35:24 UTC, Huge
wrote:

On 2009-01-30, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 30 Jan, 14:16, "whisky-dave" wrote:

Eventually I gave up and refused to do it, and suggested they get some upto
date equipment that would pass, rather than me doing stuff to pass it.

You're not allowed to complain unless you're in a chemistry
department.

Chemistry department? Wossat? (The Chemistry department at my alma mater got
eaten by biochemistry decades ago ...)

It's "Biosciences" now!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[The Real Doctor]

On 29 Jan, 17:14, wrote:


At one point, the University of Westminster had a policy that students
were not allowed to power their laptops from University supplies.

I tried to persuade my employers that they only needed to test the
power supply on my laptop, since that is the only bit which runs on
240V - the laptop itself is a nice, safe, 19V device. They didn't
accept this.

Ian

[The Real Doctor]

On 30 Jan, 14:39, "whisky-dave" wrote:

And there was the problem of what if while testing it damaged the computer,
especially where insulation tests are used.

Around two decades ago the engineering department of a Very Famous
University decided to start electrical safety testing. They did this
by buying one of the technicians a megger and telling him to go for
it. He broke every computer and terminal he tried to test. Every.
Single. One. In my research group we locked the doors and hid our
equipment from him.

Another research group had an old valve radio which had at some point
lost its case, but stayed in use nevertheless. The Health and Safety
man visited, saw it, and silently cut off and removed the plug. Within
five minutes of his departure it was back in use ... with bared ends
of wires jammed in the socket.

Ian

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
"Man at B&Q" writes:
On Jan 29, 2:33*pm, "whisky-dave" wrote:
At the time we were also told that nothing should go in to
use until
it has been PAT tested this included anything brought, and nothing could be
used
until tested.
That's just some local jobsworth imposing their own idea of elfin
safety. I've found exactly the opposite, where newly bought items
specifically did not need to be tested until the next scheduled visit
of the tester.

I wrote the procedure for a former employer some years back.
For things like desktop PC's, we basically never tested them.
Brand-new undamaged stationary IT equipment supplied with a
moulded-on mains plug was deemed to need testing every 4 years.
We aimed to pension them off before the first test was due, as
testing a 4 year old PC generally costs more than its worth at
that point.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[PCPaul]

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:48:07 -0800, Andy Dingley wrote:

On 30 Jan, 14:43, Mike Harrison wrote:

Assuming it is genuine....http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/acadapter.html

Again, you have to validate that your suppliers are competent (or in
this case, plain dishonest). There's nothing wrong with sourcing through
eBay, but you have to apply appropriate levels of inbound inspection
according to where you got it.

Dodgy supliers can be quite ingenious...

http://forum.ipcsuite.com/topics/17/200901/21/163,1.html?time=1232590359

And as for wireless dongles...

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/9779/pendrivefg7.jpg

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article glv242$7me$1@qmul,
"whisky-dave" writes:

A few years ago a few of our bench power supplies failed the PAT test
for earthing as IIRC the resistance required for the Earth conductor had
been lower.
On those PSU that failed I just kept shortening the mains lead until they
passed.
I also had to file away at the case to make sure of earth continuity.

Almost certainly due to using wrong type of electrical connection
to an aluminium case. Was quite a common problem when PAT testing
first came in.

The computer manufacturer I worked for in the '80's (GEC) had a
few teething problems in this area when we starting using aluminium,
having been pretty much exclusively steel up to that point.

This was brought home to me when I was designing a circuit to switch
mains using power mosfets. During the breadboarding stage, I just
used a bulldog clip to temporarily clamp the first mosfet onto a
heatsink, and made a mental note not to touch the live heatsink.
The next part of the breadboarding required a second mosfet, so I
clamped that onto the same heatsink. Anyway, circuit all worked fine,
so finally I disassembled the breadboard version to make the final
version (which would of course have proper insulating kits between
the mosfets and the heatsink). Only then did it suddenly dawn on me
that the two mosfets had full 240V mains between their heatsink
tabs. The only reason the whole thing hadn'd gone bang was the
thin hard layer of aluminium oxide insulator which naturally and
quickly forms over the surface of aluminium.

Eventually I gave up and refused to do it, and suggested they get some upto
date
equipment that would pass, rather than me doing stuff to pass it.
These units were from the early 80s.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
"ARWadsworth" writes:

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 29 Jan, 17:31, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Someone who uses the correct name. PA testing not PAT testing.

Isn't PA Testing "portable appliance testing" in a generic sense,
whilst "PAT Testing" is "Testing according to the specific UK PAT
rules for the testing of portable appliances" ? "PAT" is a term that
has outgrown acronym status and become a definable concept, thus
treatable as a pure noun beyond the inclusion of the verb.

Maybe, and people play RPG games and so on.

PIN number...

Some things really aren't worth worrying about.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article glv3ek$82g$1@qmul,
"whisky-dave" writes:

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
...
On 29 Jan, 17:01, Andy Dingley wrote:
snip

At one point, the University of Westminster had a policy that students
were not allowed to power their laptops from University supplies.

we had that problem too, the main problem was teh number needed to be
tested,
we weren;t talking about a few plugs here and there.
With 100-200 new students each year in our dept alone and one person being
given one day a weeek to do all PAT'ing (include 7,500 appliances in the
dept.) it got too difficult.
And there was the problem of what if while testing it damaged the computer,
especially where insulation tests are used.

If anyone does insulation tests on a computer (or IT equipment
in general) without first checking that the piece of equipment
is designed to handle it (most aren't), they would be expected
to pay for replacement due to being incompetent at PAT testing
and consequently damaging the equipment. Note that such testing
may also significantly reduce the life of such equipment even
when it doesn't instantly destroy it. Such equipment should
be tested by means of a leakage test whilst operating.

(That policy may still be in force). The reasoning was cited that such
equipment needed PA testing, and the university were not going to do
that for the students' laptops. The students, unsurprisingly, were not
too happy at this policy.

I think we've given up now, all I do is a visual check I couldn't even get
a decision on whether or not we should allow shaver socket adapters that
students use
with their two pin laptop PSUs.

I would have said that was OK providing the adaptor is fused.
When I was a student and a member of the Hall committee, I used
to buy in bulk some commonly required adaptors of suitable
quality and sell them at cost so people had easy/cheap access
to the right things. In your case, you might do better to get
some different cordsets with the 3 commonly used IEC inlet
connectors (although some laptops are proprietry inlet connectors).

I have stopped one student using a pen in
the earth socket
so he could jam in his two prong plug in to 3 pin bench socket.
But at least the lab is RCD protected.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[John Stumbles]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 09:15:09 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

.... Only then did it suddenly dawn on me
that the two mosfets had full 240V mains between their heatsink
tabs. The only reason the whole thing hadn'd gone bang was the
thin hard layer of aluminium oxide insulator which naturally and
quickly forms over the surface of aluminium.

Made me grin!


--
John Stumbles

A: Because it messes up the order in which people read text.
Q: Why is top-posting a bad thing?

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon writes:
Ba-ding!
I bought a mini light table that came with an unfused moulded 13A plug.
Dodgy as ****, I thought.

You should have told Trading Standards ASAP.
This is something they move in very fast on
to get all of the product out of circulation,
and they would be pretty certain to prosecute
the seller and/or importer.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]