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Low Gas Pressure



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 14th 09, 10:28 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Low Gas Pressure

I was a little concerned about the gas pressure at my cooker hob so decided
to test exactly what was happening before deciding whether to call a CORGI
engineer or Transco/British Gas as I do not want to get fobbed off by either
as I like to understand what is happening first.

We had a new condensing boiler fitted about 4 years ago by British Gas - a
large one badged by BG but probably a
Worcester Bosch 40 HE Plus with a slightly higher heat output spec. They
upgraded the gas supply pipes to 28mm from the meter to allow for pressure
drops while running. Our gas cooker T's off this somewhere in 15mm I
believe. All working fine!

Two years ago we had a new gas meter and regulator/governor fitted as part
of the gas mains upgrade in our road in plastic.

Last week during very cold weather I measured 22mBar static pressure using a
conventional water gauge at the gas meter test point. When
the boiler fires up the working pressure drops to anything between 16mBar
and 18mBar still at the gas meter depending on how large a flame is being
demanded
by the central heating system. I therefore detect about 5mb drop just at
the meter.

I called British gas this week when the temperature was very much warmer and
they came
within the hour. He showed me his water gauge readings (all at the gas
meter as before)
and they were totally different from mine last week. The static pressure
was 24mb and the
working pressure was 19mb when the boiler was running full.
He got the same sought of drop in pressure I had found (i.e about 5mb drop)
but from a much
higher static pressure.

He seemed a bit officious and said mine was his third similar visit that day
and he blamed CORGI engineers for taking wrong readings. He thought my
governor was the best brand new type available and should be correct. He
said if the working pressure was below 19mb he could adjust the governor (I
thought they were not supposed to do that).

After he had gone I re-tested it myself and got very similar readings. I
found the static pressure was even up to 25mb today and I confirmed his
19mb working pressure.

I think we were both right on the different days as I had measured it low
last week when the only thing that had changed was the ambient temperature
which was much colder then. Does the gas pressure change much with
weather temperature and overall demand in the street?

I cannot get them to do anything today so am stuck with what I have got
for the time being. Everything seems to be working OK.

What do others think.


Ads
  #2  
Old January 14th 09, 10:46 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,160
Default Low Gas Pressure


"Private Enquirer" wrote in message
...
I was a little concerned about the gas pressure at my cooker hob so

decided
to test exactly what was happening before deciding whether to call a

CORGI
engineer or Transco/British Gas as I do not want to get fobbed off

by either
as I like to understand what is happening first.

We had a new condensing boiler fitted about 4 years ago by British

Gas - a
large one badged by BG but probably a
Worcester Bosch 40 HE Plus with a slightly higher heat output spec.

They
upgraded the gas supply pipes to 28mm from the meter to allow for

pressure
drops while running. Our gas cooker T's off this somewhere in 15mm

I
believe. All working fine!

Two years ago we had a new gas meter and regulator/governor fitted

as part
of the gas mains upgrade in our road in plastic.

Last week during very cold weather I measured 22mBar static pressure

using a
conventional water gauge at the gas meter test point. When
the boiler fires up the working pressure drops to anything between

16mBar
and 18mBar still at the gas meter depending on how large a flame is

being
demanded
by the central heating system. I therefore detect about 5mb drop

just at
the meter.

I called British gas this week when the temperature was very much

warmer and
they came
within the hour. He showed me his water gauge readings (all at the

gas
meter as before)
and they were totally different from mine last week. The static

pressure
was 24mb and the
working pressure was 19mb when the boiler was running full.
He got the same sought of drop in pressure I had found (i.e about

5mb drop)
but from a much
higher static pressure.

He seemed a bit officious and said mine was his third similar visit

that day
and he blamed CORGI engineers for taking wrong readings. He thought

my
governor was the best brand new type available and should be

correct. He
said if the working pressure was below 19mb he could adjust the

governor (I
thought they were not supposed to do that).

After he had gone I re-tested it myself and got very similar

readings. I
found the static pressure was even up to 25mb today and I confirmed

his
19mb working pressure.

I think we were both right on the different days as I had measured

it low
last week when the only thing that had changed was the ambient

temperature
which was much colder then. Does the gas pressure change much with
weather temperature and overall demand in the street?

I cannot get them to do anything today so am stuck with what I have

got
for the time being. Everything seems to be working OK.

What do others think.



I had a similar problem just before Christmas two years ago. Pavement
works dragged out my steel gas main. Transco insisted on pulling a
plastic pipe up the old one then wouldn't reconnect my appliances as
the pressure drop was too high. They went through three cycles of
pulling a bigger plastic pipe though before concluding I needed a
bigger meter (BGas had checked the boiler every year for ten years
with no issues!!) Wanted me to pay for a bigger meter. Eventually
resolved when I dragged the Transco big cheese out of a meeting in
Paris to give him a bollocking (hehe). However I'm personally
convinced that the problem was relatively low pressure in the street
main due to high demand and there was no problem with either the pipe
of meter.

AWEM

  #3  
Old January 14th 09, 10:51 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 754
Default Low Gas Pressure

On 14 Jan, 09:28, "Private Enquirer" wrote:
I was a little concerned about the gas pressure at my cooker hob so decided
to test exactly what was happening before deciding whether to call a CORGI
engineer or Transco/British Gas as I do not want to get fobbed off by either
as I like to understand what is happening first.

We had a new condensing boiler fitted about 4 years ago by British Gas - a
large one badged by BG but probably a
Worcester Bosch 40 HE Plus with a slightly higher heat output spec. *They
upgraded the gas supply pipes to 28mm from the meter to allow for pressure
drops while running. *Our gas cooker T's off this somewhere in 15mm I
believe. *All working fine!

Two years ago we had a new gas meter and regulator/governor fitted as part
of the gas mains upgrade in our road in plastic.

Last week during very cold weather I measured 22mBar static pressure using a
conventional water gauge at the gas meter test point. *When
the boiler fires up the working pressure drops to anything between 16mBar
and 18mBar still at the gas meter depending on how large a flame is being
demanded
by the central heating system. *I therefore detect about 5mb drop just at
the meter.

I called British gas this week when the temperature was very much warmer and
they came
within the hour. *He showed me his water gauge readings (all at the gas
meter as before)
and they were totally different from mine last week. *The static pressure
was 24mb and the
working pressure was 19mb when the boiler was running full.
He got the same sought of drop in pressure I had found (i.e about 5mb drop)
but from a much
higher static pressure.

He seemed a bit officious and said mine was his third similar visit that day
and he blamed CORGI engineers for taking wrong readings. *He thought my
governor was the best brand new type available and should be correct. *He
said if the working pressure was below 19mb he could adjust the governor (I
thought they were not supposed to do that).

After he had gone I re-tested it myself and got very similar readings. *I
found the static pressure was even up to 25mb today and I confirmed his
19mb working pressure.

I think we were both right on the different days as I had measured it low
last week when the only thing that had changed was the ambient temperature
which was much colder then. *Does the gas pressure change much with
weather temperature and overall demand in the street?

I cannot get them to do anything today so am stuck with what I have got
for the time being. Everything seems to be working OK.

What do others think.


Ye canna change the laws of physics captain

Under exceptionally heavy loads such as everyone running boilers
simulataneously the dynamic pressure in the gas mains will reduce due
to pipe friction losses.
This is not helped at all by multiple large instantaneous demands from
high flow rate combis when hot water is called for (hot water storage
systems are much more forgiving)
It comes down to the gas distribution infrastructure. If this is a
regular thing then there is an argument for Transco to rip up the
roads, replace the pipes with larger etc etc. Of course Vladimir Putin
may also come into the equation!
  #4  
Old January 14th 09, 03:51 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Low Gas Pressure


"cynic" wrote in message

Ye canna change the laws of physics captain ...


That (and the other poster) is the best answer I have had so far. BG may
have official published specs agreed with CORGI but it is clear that I am
seeing problems with their distribution. On the cold day with big demand my
governor had not actually cut in to do its job and all I was seeing was
direct pressure fluctuations in my newly plastic lined old iron pipe. They
re-laid the gas big street main using a push in plastic liner which is
obviously smaller than the original iron pipe. I should have called BG out
on a cold day to get a more realistic reading. The evidence was lost on a
warm day and everything appeared to me normal, although I suspect I should
not see a 5mb drop at the meter if the actual street supply is up to spec.

Thanks for that explanation


  #5  
Old January 14th 09, 07:10 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 274
Default Low Gas Pressure


"Private Enquirer" wrote in message
...
I was a little concerned about the gas pressure at my cooker hob so decided
to test exactly what was happening before deciding whether to call a CORGI
engineer or Transco/British Gas as I do not want to get fobbed off by
either
as I like to understand what is happening first.

We had a new condensing boiler fitted about 4 years ago by British Gas - a
large one badged by BG but probably a
Worcester Bosch 40 HE Plus with a slightly higher heat output spec. They
upgraded the gas supply pipes to 28mm from the meter to allow for pressure
drops while running. Our gas cooker T's off this somewhere in 15mm I
believe. All working fine!

Two years ago we had a new gas meter and regulator/governor fitted as part
of the gas mains upgrade in our road in plastic.

Last week during very cold weather I measured 22mBar static pressure using
a
conventional water gauge at the gas meter test point. When
the boiler fires up the working pressure drops to anything between 16mBar
and 18mBar still at the gas meter depending on how large a flame is being
demanded
by the central heating system. I therefore detect about 5mb drop just at
the meter.

I called British gas this week when the temperature was very much warmer
and they came
within the hour. He showed me his water gauge readings (all at the gas
meter as before)
and they were totally different from mine last week. The static pressure
was 24mb and the
working pressure was 19mb when the boiler was running full.
He got the same sought of drop in pressure I had found (i.e about 5mb
drop) but from a much
higher static pressure.

He seemed a bit officious and said mine was his third similar visit that
day
and he blamed CORGI engineers for taking wrong readings. He thought my
governor was the best brand new type available and should be correct. He
said if the working pressure was below 19mb he could adjust the governor
(I
thought they were not supposed to do that).

After he had gone I re-tested it myself and got very similar readings. I
found the static pressure was even up to 25mb today and I confirmed his
19mb working pressure.

I think we were both right on the different days as I had measured it low
last week when the only thing that had changed was the ambient temperature
which was much colder then. Does the gas pressure change much with
weather temperature and overall demand in the street?

I cannot get them to do anything today so am stuck with what I have got
for the time being. Everything seems to be working OK.

What do others think.


If it ain't broke why try to fix it?

Does everything work as normal ?
if so why worry .


  #6  
Old January 14th 09, 11:19 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,231
Default Low Gas Pressure

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:28:18 +0000, Private Enquirer wrote:

I was a little concerned about the gas pressure at my cooker hob so
decided to test exactly what was happening before deciding whether to
call a CORGI engineer or Transco/British Gas as I do not want to get
fobbed off by either as I like to understand what is happening first.

We had a new condensing boiler fitted about 4 years ago by British Gas -
a large one badged by BG but probably a Worcester Bosch 40 HE Plus with
a slightly higher heat output spec. They upgraded the gas supply pipes
to 28mm from the meter to allow for pressure drops while running. Our
gas cooker T's off this somewhere in 15mm I believe. All working fine!

Two years ago we had a new gas meter and regulator/governor fitted as
part of the gas mains upgrade in our road in plastic.

Last week during very cold weather I measured 22mBar static pressure
using a conventional water gauge at the gas meter test point. When the
boiler fires up the working pressure drops to anything between 16mBar
and 18mBar still at the gas meter depending on how large a flame is
being demanded
by the central heating system. I therefore detect about 5mb drop just
at the meter.

I called British gas this week when the temperature was very much warmer
and they came
within the hour. He showed me his water gauge readings (all at the gas
meter as before)
and they were totally different from mine last week. The static
pressure was 24mb and the
working pressure was 19mb when the boiler was running full. He got the
same sought of drop in pressure I had found (i.e about 5mb drop) but
from a much
higher static pressure.


No. You need to see the difference between the running pressure when the
smallest hob ring is on it's lowest setting. The standing pressure (24mb)
just tells you that there is at least 24mb in the service main.



He seemed a bit officious and said mine was his third similar visit that
day and he blamed CORGI engineers for taking wrong readings. He thought
my governor was the best brand new type available and should be correct.
He said if the working pressure was below 19mb he could adjust the
governor (I thought they were not supposed to do that).


No. You and I are not supposed to tamper with that but he may.



After he had gone I re-tested it myself and got very similar readings.
I found the static pressure was even up to 25mb today and I confirmed
his 19mb working pressure.

I think we were both right on the different days as I had measured it
low last week when the only thing that had changed was the ambient
temperature which was much colder then. Does the gas pressure change
much with weather temperature and overall demand in the street?


Quite probably, not all areas, not even most will have a problem. It's
far worse in Bulgaria ;-)


I cannot get them to do anything today so am stuck with what I have got
for the time being. Everything seems to be working OK.

What do others think.


What's happening at the hob. Can you see the flames alter? Do any of the
rings go out when on minimum?


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

  #7  
Old January 15th 09, 12:26 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,175
Default Low Gas Pressure

In article ,
Ed Sirett writes:

Quite probably, not all areas, not even most will have a problem. It's
far worse in Bulgaria ;-)


I bet they don't bother to purge the the whole network
and everyone's home pipework before allowing it back on;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  #8  
Old January 16th 09, 07:18 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,231
Default Low Gas Pressure

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:26:39 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Ed Sirett writes:

Quite probably, not all areas, not even most will have a problem. It's
far worse in Bulgaria ;-)


I bet they don't bother to purge the the whole network and everyone's
home pipework before allowing it back on;-)


Never having being to Bulgaria I don't know what type of equipment is
commonly used. It might well be industrial type kit and communal heating.




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

  #9  
Old January 18th 09, 11:03 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,702
Default Low Gas Pressure


"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:26:39 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Ed Sirett writes:

Quite probably, not all areas, not even most will have a problem. It's
far worse in Bulgaria ;-)


I bet they don't bother to purge the the whole network and everyone's
home pipework before allowing it back on;-)


Never having being to Bulgaria I don't know what type of equipment is
commonly used. It might well be industrial type kit and communal heating.


Sorry for the late question, I have been away for a few days, but what would
happen in this country if a sizeable area actually lost its gas supply and
needed to be reconnected?

In my house the combi should be fine. The sensor will detect no gas and
close the valve off. I am sure my cooker would fill the house up with gas if
it lost its gas supply and then was reconnected. The closest scenario I can
find is when a gas main got filled with water in a nearby village (about 10
years ago) and each house on the supply had to be checked at the meter. That
was over 200 houses and it took a few weeks before everyone was back to
normal. I believe that every house had to be disconnected at the meter and
connected back up one by one.

Adam


  #10  
Old January 19th 09, 12:30 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,586
Default Low Gas Pressure

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:03:07 GMT, ARWadsworth wrote:

Sorry for the late question, I have been away for a few days, but what
would happen in this country if a sizeable area actually lost its gas
supply and needed to be reconnected?


Reading between the lines of the reports relating to the big gas main fire
at Rawtenstall just before Christmas. They tell people to turn their gas
off at the meter. They then pressurise the main again, presumably purging
and checking for leaks as they say not turning off at the meter may slow
down return of supply. After that they visit every property and check it,
making sure pilot lights are lit etc.

A lot of ex-soviet Eastern Eurpean countries have massive communal heating
systems, not just individual buildings but whole blocks and towns.

--
Cheers
Dave.



 




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