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wiring two gang two way light switch



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 18th 08, 04:32 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1
Default wiring two gang two way light switch


I am trying to replace two light switches for dimmers.

Both switches are two way.

One of the switches has three wires and the other has two.

Each of the wires have three inner wires (excluding the bare earth) and
they are coloured black, grey and brown. One of the main wires (the 3
wire box) has 'switched feed' written on it. All the other wires are
unmarked.

The dimmer switch I have bought (which i intend to fit onto the box
which has three wires coming from it) has two L1 terimnals, two L2
terminals and two which have a symbol that looks like a wavy line with
an arrow going through it.

So, in summary I have the following.

Box 1 (excluding earth).

3 black wires
3 grey wire
3 brown wires

Box 2 (excluding earth):

2 black wire
2 grey wires
2 brown wires

Switch 1 (for box 1)

2 L1 terminals
2 L2 terminals
2 wavy line terminals

Switch 2 (for box 2)

2 L1 terminals
2 L2 terminals
2 COM terminals

Can anyone tell me how to wire these switches?

Many thanks,
Alex




--
alex6192
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  #2  
Old December 19th 08, 08:47 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 3,357
Default wiring two gang two way light switch

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:32:38 +0000 someone who may be alex6192
wrote this:-

I am trying to replace two light switches for dimmers.

Both switches are two way.

One of the switches has three wires and the other has two.


Are the switches side by side, or in separate locations?

What is marked on the terminals into which these wires are
connected? If you can't pull the switches out to look with the wires
connected then undo one terminal at a time and mark which wires went
into that one, then when you have the switch off see what the
markings are.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
  #3  
Old December 19th 08, 10:46 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1
Default wiring two gang two way light switch


David Hansen;1476111 Wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:32:38 +0000 someone who may be alex6192
wrote this:-
-
I am trying to replace two light switches for dimmers.

Both switches are two way.

One of the switches has three wires and the other has two.-

Are the switches side by side, or in separate locations?

What is marked on the terminals into which these wires are
connected? If you can't pull the switches out to look with the wires
connected then undo one terminal at a time and mark which wires went
into that one, then when you have the switch off see what the
markings are.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents
me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54


Hi david,

The switches are in seperate locations. Both are two gang and both are
two-way. The switches control two banks of spot lights in the lougne (4
spot lights each). The box which has three wires (3 3 core wires) is in
one location and the box which has two wires (2 3 core wires) is in
another location.

Studily I didn't mark which wires went where when taking off the old
switches. btw the new switches are dimmers.




--
alex6192
  #4  
Old December 20th 08, 11:59 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 3,357
Default wiring two gang two way light switch

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:46:36 +0000 someone who may be alex6192
wrote this:-

The switches are in seperate locations. Both are two gang and both are
two-way. The switches control two banks of spot lights in the lougne (4
spot lights each). The box which has three wires (3 3 core wires) is in
one location and the box which has two wires (2 3 core wires) is in
another location.


Let me see if I have this right. All the switches are in the lounge.
In one box there are two switches (mounted in the one plate), one of
which controls half the spot lights and the other switch controls
the other half. In another part of the lounge there is another box,
which also contains two switches which also control the spotlights.
The spotlights are not controlled from another location as well. One
of the boxes has two three core + earth cables, the other has three
of these cables entering it.

If that is the case then this is what I think you have:

1) the box with three cables has one cable which contains the
permanent live and two switched lives to the groups of spotlights.

2) the same box has two three core cables which go to the other box,
each of which provides two way switching functions for one group of
spotlights.

3) the box with two cables coming in has the other end of these two
way switching cables.

To test this I would do the following, but only do this if you are
confident you can do it without too much danger:

1) separate out the ends of all the cables until all are easy to
test but not too close together.

2) turn on the electricity.

3) using a meter (or neon screwdiver if a meter not available and
desperate) identify which of the cores is the permanent live. Only
one core should be live, test them all to make sure.

4) turn off the electricity.

5) mark the permanent live, permanently.

6) using a terminal block connect the permanent live to one of the
other cores in the same cable (obviously not the protective
conductor).

7) turn on the electricity. One group of spotlights should light up.

8) turn off the electricity. Mark what that core feeds, permanently.

9) move the terminal block to connect the permanent live to the
other core in the cable instead.

10) turn on the electricity. The other group of spotlights should
light up. If it does you are almost there.

11) turn off the electricity. Mark what that core feeds,
permanently.

12) at this point if you have a meter make a flying lead and use
this to work out which ends of the other cables is which. To do this
connect the flying lead to say the brown of one cable, go to the
other box and test both browns. The one with zero resistance is the
other end. Mark both ends of both cables, A or B is preferable to 1
or 2.

13) you now have enough information to wire up the switches. If you
think you don't think about it yourself for a while and draw some
diagrams. http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/two_way_lighting.htm
and the like explain how two way switching works, but remember that
in this case instead of a two core and earth cable coming in there
is a three core and earth cable because you have two groups of
spotlights. As you have marked the switched lives to the spotlights
you should find that the switches on the box with three cables
control the right set of spotlights.

14) if you didn't have a meter at 12) then connect the switches up.
If you are lucky then you won't have to do anything else. If you are
unlucky you will find that the switches on the box with two cables
control the wrong set of lights. If that is the case swap the cables
over.

Studily I didn't mark which wires went where when taking off the old
switches.


Most of us have regretted doing that.

btw the new switches are dimmers.


With "normal" dimmers only one dimmer is installed per group of
lamps. The switch with the dimmer turns the lights on and off and
controls the brightness of the lamps. Other switch positions simply
turn the lamps on and off. Even if the dimmer is turned right down
the lamps should glow enough when switched from another location to
be able to walk to the dimmer and adjust the brightness.

Dimmers take more space than a "normal" switch. Therefore I would
consider the box with two cables to be the favourite location for
the dimmers. I would place it there unless that did not find favour
with "the domestic authorities" in which case a deeper box may be
necessary at the location with three cables. The disruption this
will entail (assuming the walls are not plasterboard) may be enough
to convince "the domestic authorities" to change her mind.





--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
  #5  
Old December 20th 08, 12:28 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 19,626
Default wiring two gang two way light switch

In article ,
alex6192 wrote:
I am trying to replace two light switches for dimmers.


Both switches are two way.


One of the switches has three wires and the other has two.


Make those cables. And the inner 'wires' are normally called cores.

Each of the wires have three inner wires (excluding the bare earth) and
they are coloured black, grey and brown. One of the main wires (the 3
wire box) has 'switched feed' written on it. All the other wires are
unmarked.


Strange. You're describing a two way switch circuit by the three core
cable - but the 'switched feed' is normally two core. Here's the diagram


L1 L1
0===========0 0===========0============= Line
| \ / |
C 0================================O C
\ / \ /
0===========0 0===========0============= Switch return
L2 Optional L2
Intermediate


The dimmer switch I have bought (which i intend to fit onto the box
which has three wires coming from it) has two L1 terimnals, two L2
terminals and two which have a symbol that looks like a wavy line with
an arrow going through it.


I've never seen one like that - what make is it? Most have three terminals
for two way switching marked Com, L1, l2.

So, in summary I have the following.


Box 1 (excluding earth).


3 black wires
3 grey wire
3 brown wires


Box 2 (excluding earth):


2 black wire
2 grey wires
2 brown wires


Switch 1 (for box 1)


2 L1 terminals
2 L2 terminals
2 wavy line terminals


Switch 2 (for box 2)


2 L1 terminals
2 L2 terminals
2 COM terminals


Can anyone tell me how to wire these switches?


It looks to me that the existing switches are intermediates. These have
four terminals as opposed to three. As per the diagram above. If that's
the case the switch part of the dimmer will also have to be an
intermediate - and I've not come across one that is.

I'd also guess there were choc block connectors inside the boxes which
you've omitted to mention.

--
*When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #6  
Old December 20th 08, 02:44 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 3,357
Default wiring two gang two way light switch

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:28:06 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

The dimmer switch I have bought (which i intend to fit onto the box
which has three wires coming from it) has two L1 terimnals, two L2
terminals and two which have a symbol that looks like a wavy line with
an arrow going through it.


I've never seen one like that - what make is it? Most have three terminals
for two way switching marked Com, L1, l2.


According to the OP it is a two gang dimmer. The wavy line, which is
presumably to indicate variable light output, is undoubtedly the
same as the Com terminal.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
  #7  
Old December 20th 08, 03:20 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,702
Default wiring two gang two way light switch


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
alex6192 wrote:
I am trying to replace two light switches for dimmers.


Both switches are two way.


One of the switches has three wires and the other has two.


Make those cables. And the inner 'wires' are normally called cores.

Each of the wires have three inner wires (excluding the bare earth) and
they are coloured black, grey and brown. One of the main wires (the 3
wire box) has 'switched feed' written on it. All the other wires are
unmarked.


Strange. You're describing a two way switch circuit by the three core
cable - but the 'switched feed' is normally two core. Here's the diagram


L1 L1
0===========0 0===========0============= Line
| \ / |
C 0================================O C
\ / \ /
0===========0 0===========0============= Switch return
L2 Optional L2
Intermediate


The dimmer switch I have bought (which i intend to fit onto the box
which has three wires coming from it) has two L1 terimnals, two L2
terminals and two which have a symbol that looks like a wavy line with
an arrow going through it.


I've never seen one like that - what make is it? Most have three terminals
for two way switching marked Com, L1, l2.


A lot of dimmer switches use this labelling method. The "wavy line" terminal
is the Com. It is supposed to represent a dimmed connection to terminals L1
and L2


It looks to me that the existing switches are intermediates. These have
four terminals as opposed to three. As per the diagram above. If that's
the case the switch part of the dimmer will also have to be an
intermediate - and I've not come across one that is.

I'd also guess there were choc block connectors inside the boxes which
you've omitted to mention.



I do not think so. I think there is a link wire that the OP did not mention
between L1 and L1. There are many ways of wiring things this up. This is
probably the best option, and I suspect a junction box is involved
somewhere.

If you double your picture up so that it shows a two gang two way set up and
a link wire that joins L1 to L1 (not shown)

L1 L1
0===========0 0===========0=============Link to line
| |
C 0================================O C
\ /
0===========0 0===========0============= Bank 1 lights==
L2 L2



L1 L1
0===========0 0===========0============= Line======
| |
C 0================================O C
\ /
0===========0 0===========0============= Bank 2 Lights=
L2 L2

Then the 3 core and earth cable labelled "switched feed" is the cable to the
right of the picture (Line, bank 1 lights and bank 2 lights). The OP needs
to identify the permanent live from this cable(most probably the brown),
then the other two cores are the outputs for banks 1 and 2 of the lighting
circuits.


Adam


  #8  
Old December 20th 08, 03:31 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 7,702
Default wiring two gang two way light switch

The ASCII art did not work. Try


L1
L1
0=============================0 Link to line below
|
C 0==============================O C
\
0============================0========== Bank 1 lights==
L2
L2



L1 L1
0===========================0======= Line======
|
C 0================================O C
\
0============================0========= Bank 2 Lights==
L2
L2


Adam


  #9  
Old December 20th 08, 05:22 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 3,357
Default wiring two gang two way light switch

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:20:49 GMT someone who may be "ARWadsworth"
wrote this:-

I think there is a link wire that the OP did not mention
between L1 and L1.


I think so too and this has been lost.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
 




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