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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Car external temperature sensor location?
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp
thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas? Don |
#2
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Donwill wrote :
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas? Under the front bumper is the usual place, though my manufacturers built in one suggests the make some sort of compensation to the figure displayed. What ever, it seems pretty accurate, with no variation even when stood in traffic. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk |
#3
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Car external temperature sensor location?
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message k... Donwill wrote : I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas? Under the front bumper is the usual place, though my manufacturers built in one suggests the make some sort of compensation to the figure displayed. What ever, it seems pretty accurate, with no variation even when stood in traffic. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk Thanks for that Harry, unfortunately my front bumpers are blinking big black plastic things which probably suck in solar radiation like sponges. Perhaps I should cover them with aluminised polyester :-) . Don |
#4
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Car external temperature sensor location?
In article ,
Donwill popple @diddle .dot wrote: I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas? A common place is just behind the front bumper in the wheel well protected by the liner. -- *Corduroy pillows are making headlines. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#5
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Donwill wrote:
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas? Don I mounted the sensor of mine below the driver's mirror. Ran the cable through the door under the hinge and under the footwellmat. Despite the door being opened and closed around twice a day for 5 years, the cable never failed. The sensor fell off once when the double-sided sticky tape failed, but I stuck it back on with some silicone cement. -- Jeff |
#6
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Donwill popple @diddle .dot wrote: I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas? A common place is just behind the front bumper in the wheel well protected by the liner. Some Pugs have the sensor in the underside edge of the door mirror. Bob |
#7
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Donwill popple @diddle .dot wrote: I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas? A common place is just behind the front bumper in the wheel well protected by the liner. Vauxhall's(well astra's) its fitted to the front bumper on the bottom as far back as it will go facing the ground, it does pick up the heat from the road -- Kevin R Reply address works |
#8
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Car external temperature sensor location?
"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying: I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas? Underside of one door mirror's the usual place, or under the front bumper. The former can be subject to heat-soak when parked, especially on a dark coloured car, the latter can get a bit chilled on cold wet days or soak from the rad in heavy traffic. |
#9
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Car external temperature sensor location?
"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot wrote in message
... I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas? My old Renaut had it under the drivers wing mirror. It actually looked like the paint had run and collected there in a big drip. In fact the kids tried to pick it off one day when they were washing the car!!! |
#10
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Huge wrote:
On 2008-11-30, Donwill popple@diddle wrote: Any tips or ideas? Mine's in the radiator grill, well in front of the radiator itself. BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air temperature is measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value to drive a low temperature warning. I dont think that would give a true value ambient value as the venturi effect will change the temperature(cant remember which way) -- Kevin R Reply address works |
#11
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Kevin wrote:
Huge wrote: On 2008-11-30, Donwill popple@diddle wrote: Any tips or ideas? Mine's in the radiator grill, well in front of the radiator itself. BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air temperature is measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value to drive a low temperature warning. I dont think that would give a true value ambient value as the venturi effect will change the temperature(cant remember which way) You could well be right. But I think/thought some early examples of these did exactly that - meaning no requirement for anything extra under the bonnet (or door mirror!) but giving the driver some impression of external temperature as a benefit of the inherent working of the engine management system. Albeit inaccurate. -- Rod Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious onset. Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed. www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org |
#12
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Car external temperature sensor location?
In article ,
Huge wrote: On 2008-11-30, Donwill popple@diddle wrote: Any tips or ideas? Mine's in the radiator grill, well in front of the radiator itself. BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air temperature is measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value to drive a low temperature warning. Do you know of one where this is actually the case? That sensor is only interested in temperature change rather than absolute values. -- *Pride is what we have. Vanity is what others have. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#13
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Kevin gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying: BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air temperature is measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value to drive a low temperature warning. I dont think that would give a true value ambient value as the venturi effect will change the temperature(cant remember which way) Depends on where it is, and on the conditions. Once the engine & engine bay are good and hot, it'll be warmer than ambient. Same on a turbocharged engine, if the sensor's looking at the compressed air, which it'd need to, since it's the temperature as it reaches the engine that matters. OTOH, carb icing is a fine practical demonstration of the venturi effect cooling the air down markedly. Anyway - most cars don't have an inlet air temp sensor these days - they measure the mass of the incoming air instead via an air mass meter rather than air flow meter plus inlet air temp. |
#14
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Huge gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying: Anyway - most cars don't have an inlet air temp sensor these days - they measure the mass of the incoming air instead via an air mass meter rather than air flow meter plus inlet air temp. Have installed both Megasquirt and Omex ECUs in the recent past, I can assure you that both these systems have inlet air temperature sensors. You need them for cold start enrichment, for one thing. (And the Omex on my TVR doesn't have an air mass meter, either - it does fuelling solely on throttle position and lambda.) Yes, they do. MS is very low-tech by modern standards. I know nothing about the Omex system. Besides, coolant temp sensors'd normally be used for the cold-start enrichment. |
#15
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Car external temperature sensor location?
In article ,
Huge wrote: Anyway - most cars don't have an inlet air temp sensor these days - they measure the mass of the incoming air instead via an air mass meter rather than air flow meter plus inlet air temp. Have installed both Megasquirt and Omex ECUs in the recent past, I can assure you that both these systems have inlet air temperature sensors. You need them for cold start enrichment, for one thing. I presume it also has a coolant temperature sensor - and it's that one which does most of the work. The air temp one just for fine tuning. (And the Omex on my TVR doesn't have an air mass meter, either - it does fuelling solely on throttle position and lambda.) Pretty crude, then? -- *Succeed, in spite of management * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#16
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Car external temperature sensor location?
In article ,
Huge wrote: BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air temperature is measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value to drive a low temperature warning. Do you know of one where this is actually the case? Nope. That sensor is only interested in temperature change rather than absolute values. It needs to know the absolute temperature for cold start enrichment. As I said normally the coolant sensor for this. If you think about it that tells the temperature of the actual engine which effects the mixture requirements - not the air temp one which shouldn't really sense engine temp at all. After all you don't need choke on a hot engine on a cold day. ;-) -- *A bicycle can't stand alone because it's two tyred.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#17
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Donwill wrote:
I have a peugeot partner escapade. It doesn't have an external temp thermometer and I'm thinking to install one. Where do they usually position the sensor bulb on the car, to measure air temperature it has to be positioned so that it is shielded from direct sunlight, have exposure to clean air so to speak, and not be exposed to engine heat. Any tips or ideas? Don On a Golf GTI whose 'computer' dashboard display has failed, I have kludged a temperature solution with one of those external/internal wireless 'weather stations' that Aldi and Lidl sell. I wrapped the external sensor in duct tape, including wire for attachment. It is now attached to an air intake just below the bumper. It reads about two or three degrees high on a very sunny day --- I assume because the air near the road is warmer than ambient; I think it's protected from heat radiated from the road; it certainly is from direct sunlight. It reads quite high some time after I've stopped --- I guess warm air from the radiator or oil cooler. Otherwise it performs as required (for about two years now); the sensor signals seem to have no difficulty getting inside the car. However, long wave signals for the radio controlled clock are not received inside Best regards, Jon C. |
#18
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Huge gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying: Pretty crude, then? Err, no. Air "mass" meters are horrid things, and you don't want one in the airflow when tuning for maximum power. The AMM on my car provides virtually no restriction to airflow. Only a small portion of the flow is measured as it passes through a calibrated venturi parallel to the main flow. |
#19
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Huge gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying: Anyway - most cars don't have an inlet air temp sensor these days - they measure the mass of the incoming air instead via an air mass meter rather than air flow meter plus inlet air temp. Have installed both Megasquirt and Omex ECUs in the recent past, I can assure you that both these systems have inlet air temperature sensors. You need them for cold start enrichment, for one thing. (And the Omex on my TVR doesn't have an air mass meter, either - it does fuelling solely on throttle position and lambda.) Yes, they do. "Yes they do", what? "Yes, they do", in a "Yes, those two do have IAT sensors" kinda way. A couple of unusual and very specialised systems which do doesn't disprove "most don't" |
#20
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Car external temperature sensor location?
In article ,
Huge wrote: (And the Omex on my TVR doesn't have an air mass meter, either - it does fuelling solely on throttle position and lambda.) Pretty crude, then? Err, no. Air "mass" meters are horrid things, and you don't want one in the airflow when tuning for maximum power. Perhaps you're thinking about the old flap valve type? Modern ones very little if any resistance to airflow. -- *Don't byte off more than you can view * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#21
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Huge wrote: (And the Omex on my TVR doesn't have an air mass meter, either - it does fuelling solely on throttle position and lambda.) Pretty crude, then? Err, no. Air "mass" meters are horrid things, and you don't want one in the airflow when tuning for maximum power. Perhaps you're thinking about the old flap valve type? Modern ones very little if any resistance to airflow. The air mass meter on my car has about half the cross-sectional area of the air filter or the manifold. I'd say that was offering fairly serious resistance to airflow. Fortunately third party tuners sell properly sized AMMs. |
#22
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Car external temperature sensor location?
(Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying: Err, no. Air "mass" meters are horrid things, and you don't want one in the airflow when tuning for maximum power. Perhaps you're thinking about the old flap valve type? Modern ones very little if any resistance to airflow. The air mass meter on my car has about half the cross-sectional area of the air filter or the manifold. I'd say that was offering fairly serious resistance to airflow. Fortunately third party tuners sell properly sized AMMs. ....which just shows it's not an inherent issue with the concept of the AMM... |
#23
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Car external temperature sensor location?
In article ,
Steve Firth wrote: Perhaps you're thinking about the old flap valve type? Modern ones very little if any resistance to airflow. The air mass meter on my car has about half the cross-sectional area of the air filter or the manifold. I'd say that was offering fairly serious resistance to airflow. Fortunately third party tuners sell properly sized AMMs. The inlet tract is always constricted somewhere. Removing that restriction can make the vehicle run worse. If it improves things it's a poor design. -- *I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#24
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Car external temperature sensor location?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
The inlet tract is always constricted somewhere. Removing that restriction can make the vehicle run worse. If it improves things it's a poor design. It's as if Harry Weslake had never been born. |
#25
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Car external temperature sensor location?
In article ,
Steve Firth wrote: The inlet tract is always constricted somewhere. Removing that restriction can make the vehicle run worse. If it improves things it's a poor design. It's as if Harry Weslake had never been born. He did understand inlet tract tuning. You should read up on him. -- *Toilet stolen from police station. Cops have nothing to go on. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#26
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Car external temperature sensor location?
On 30 Nov 2008 11:53:26 GMT, Huge wrote:
On 2008-11-30, Donwill popple@diddle wrote: Any tips or ideas? Mine's in the radiator grill, well in front of the radiator itself. BTW, many cars may not have a specific sensor. The inlet air temperature is measured by the fuel injection system, and you could use that value to drive a low temperature warning. Not always, in the case of the car I was driving yesterday, with ambient temperatures around 0 deg C and compacted frozen snow and ice on the road, the engine management diagnostics tool I had plugged in was showing a (true) mass air temperature of around 30 deg C. That's what you get when you have a turbo compressing the air to approximately two atmospheres and a heap of snow blocking up the intercooler duct -- |
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