[tonyjeffs[_2_]]

I intend to build a uPVC conservatory onto the back of the rear living
room of our semi. It needs planning permission because it is 4m deep.

One side wall of the conservatory will be adjacant to the 7' high
party-wall wall that runs the length of the garden, so it won't get
any sun and if I use a standard uPVC panel it will lose a lot of
heat. If I build a cavity brick/block wall instead, it'll solve the
insulation problem and satisfy Planning , but it would make the
conservatory considerably narrower.

Is there a thin walling material, maybe 3" thick, that has high
insulation properties, and that might satisfy planning, that I could
use instead?


Thanks

Tony

[The Natural Philosopher]

tonyjeffs wrote:
I intend to build a uPVC conservatory onto the back of the rear living
room of our semi. It needs planning permission because it is 4m deep.

One side wall of the conservatory will be adjacant to the 7' high
party-wall wall that runs the length of the garden, so it won't get
any sun and if I use a standard uPVC panel it will lose a lot of
heat. If I build a cavity brick/block wall instead, it'll solve the
insulation problem and satisfy Planning , but it would make the
conservatory considerably narrower.

Is there a thin walling material, maybe 3" thick, that has high
insulation properties, and that might satisfy planning, that I could
use instead?

Does it have to be structural?

Probably the easiest thing to knock up would be 6x4 timber on a twin
brick foundation.., with ply outside, and the building paper, battens,
metal lath and render. Or use weatherboard over. Then infill with
rockwool or kingspan and plasterboard over.



Thanks

Tony

[tonyjeffs[_2_]]

On Oct 28, 12:31*am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
tonyjeffs wrote:
I intend to build a uPVC conservatory onto the back of the rear living
room of our semi. It needs planning permission because it is 4m deep.

One side wall of the conservatory will be adjacant *to the 7' *high
party-wall wall that runs the length of the garden, so it won't get
any sun and if I use a standard *uPVC panel it will lose a lot of
heat. *If I build a cavity brick/block wall instead, it'll solve the
insulation problem and satisfy Planning , but it would make the
conservatory considerably narrower.

Is there a thin walling material, maybe 3" thick, *that has high
insulation properties, and *that might satisfy planning, that I could
use instead?

Does it have to be structural?

Probably the easiest thing to knock up would be 6x4 timber on a twin
brick foundation.., with ply outside, and the building paper, battens,
metal lath and render. Or use weatherboard over. Then infill with
rockwool or kingspan and plasterboard over.





Thanks

Tony- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That sounds areasonable way to do it. No not structural. It won't be
accessable at all from the outside once it's up so I'll have to make
sure it is weatherproof. Maybe I can use some kind of pvc sheet
instead of ply.

Tony

PS sorry for posting the same question 3 times. I thought it wasn't
working

[Kevin]

tonyjeffs wrote:
I intend to build a uPVC conservatory onto the back of the rear living
room of our semi. It needs planning permission because it is 4m deep.

One side wall of the conservatory will be adjacant to the 7' high
party-wall wall that runs the length of the garden, so it won't get
any sun and if I use a standard uPVC panel it will lose a lot of
heat. If I build a cavity brick/block wall instead, it'll solve the
insulation problem and satisfy Planning , but it would make the
conservatory considerably narrower.

Is there a thin walling material, maybe 3" thick, that has high
insulation properties, and that might satisfy planning, that I could
use instead?


Thanks

Tony

is a few inches going to make that much difference when you have 13ft
the other way?

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

[jim]

On 27 Oct, 23:04, tonyjeffs wrote:
I intend to build a uPVC conservatory onto the back of the rear living
room of our semi. It needs planning permission because it is 4m deep.

One side wall of the conservatory will be adjacant to the 7' high
party-wall wall that runs the length of the garden, so it won't get
any sun and if I use a standard uPVC panel it will lose a lot of
heat. If I build a cavity brick/block wall instead, it'll solve the
insulation problem and satisfy Planning , but it would make the
conservatory considerably narrower.

Is there a thin walling material, maybe 3" thick, that has high
insulation properties, and that might satisfy planning, that I could
use instead?

Thanks

Tony

Will you miss 5 odd inches off 4m?
I'd reconsider the cavity wall - fill cavity with as much insulation
as you can get in (measured thermally rather than volume i.e. use
Kingspan etc). That will leave you with the inner skin acting as
thermal mass that will absorb heat during warm hours and release it
later - so extending the use of the space & maybe helping some tender
plants surivive/last a bit longer in these cold dark days...
cheers
Jim

[tonyjeffs[_2_]]

On Oct 28, 11:47*pm, jim wrote:
On 27 Oct, 23:04, tonyjeffs wrote:





I intend to build a uPVC conservatory onto the back of the rear living
room of our semi. It needs planning permission because it is 4m deep.

One side wall of the conservatory will be adjacant *to the 7' *high
party-wall wall that runs the length of the garden, so it won't get
any sun and if I use a standard *uPVC panel it will lose a lot of
heat. *If I build a cavity brick/block wall instead, it'll solve the
insulation problem and satisfy Planning , but it would make the
conservatory considerably narrower.

Is there a thin walling material, maybe 3" thick, *that has high
insulation properties, and *that might satisfy planning, that I could
use instead?

Thanks

Tony

Will you miss 5 odd inches off 4m?
I'd reconsider the cavity wall - fill cavity with as much insulation
as you can get in (measured thermally rather than volume i.e. use
Kingspan etc). That will leave you with the inner skin acting as
thermal mass that will absorb heat during warm hours and release it
later - so extending the use of the space & maybe helping some tender
plants surivive/last a bit longer in these cold dark days...
cheers
Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Losing 5 inches wouldn't be terrible, but I think it is better if I
can avoid it. It might be more than 5 inches if planning require some
distance between the new cavity wall and the garden party wall. I'll
have to talk with them.
I've never applied for planning permission before and am not sure how
it works. Presumably I submit my preferred design, and if they say no,
they'll give me the opportunity to modify it until it suits them.

If I didn't need planning permission, I'd make use of the existing
non-waterproof 8" thick concrete block garden wall as the outer skin,
put up a horizontal DP membrane of blue visquine, then Kingspan, then
an inner skin of block (& brick where it's visible), then finish with
plasterboard.
The garden wall is made of interlocking 8x8x9 blocks, like Lego. They
aren't cemented together.
Perhaps I should apply for exactly that and see where it gets me.
I'll phone up and have a word with Planning doday.

Thanks again

Tony

[dennis@home]

"tonyjeffs" wrote in message
...


The garden wall is made of interlocking 8x8x9 blocks, like Lego. They
aren't cemented together.

If they are what I think they are they are for building retaining walls and
should be filled with steel rods and concrete after they are in place.
How tall is the wall?

[jim]

On 29 Oct, 05:08, tonyjeffs wrote:
On Oct 28, 11:47 pm, jim wrote:



On 27 Oct, 23:04, tonyjeffs wrote:

I intend to build a uPVC conservatory onto the back of the rear living
room of our semi. It needs planning permission because it is 4m deep.

One side wall of the conservatory will be adjacant to the 7' high
party-wall wall that runs the length of the garden, so it won't get
any sun and if I use a standard uPVC panel it will lose a lot of
heat. If I build a cavity brick/block wall instead, it'll solve the
insulation problem and satisfy Planning , but it would make the
conservatory considerably narrower.

Is there a thin walling material, maybe 3" thick, that has high
insulation properties, and that might satisfy planning, that I could
use instead?

Thanks

Tony

Will you miss 5 odd inches off 4m?
I'd reconsider the cavity wall - fill cavity with as much insulation
as you can get in (measured thermally rather than volume i.e. use
Kingspan etc). That will leave you with the inner skin acting as
thermal mass that will absorb heat during warm hours and release it
later - so extending the use of the space & maybe helping some tender
plants surivive/last a bit longer in these cold dark days...
cheers
Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Losing 5 inches wouldn't be terrible, but I think it is better if I
can avoid it. It might be more than 5 inches if planning require some
distance between the new cavity wall and the garden party wall. I'll
have to talk with them.
I've never applied for planning permission before and am not sure how
it works. Presumably I submit my preferred design, and if they say no,
they'll give me the opportunity to modify it until it suits them.

If I didn't need planning permission, I'd make use of the existing
non-waterproof 8" thick concrete block garden wall as the outer skin,
put up a horizontal DP membrane of blue visquine, then Kingspan, then
an inner skin of block (& brick where it's visible), then finish with
plasterboard.
The garden wall is made of interlocking 8x8x9 blocks, like Lego. They
aren't cemented together.
Perhaps I should apply for exactly that and see where it gets me.
I'll phone up and have a word with Planning doday.

Thanks again

Tony

Hi
(the "5 inches" was what I figured you might "lose" over and above the
single thin skin mentioned in other posts)

What area would the conservatory cover ?
ISTR planning not necessarily needed (in any case I doubt they will
want to talk abt technical building issues - try your councils
Building Control).
ISTR if it's less than 30m2 (?) Building Regs don't apply either - so
if you're within the limits you can legally build it how you want -
IOW on your head be it (though hopefully not!!) [sorry couldn't
resist!]

cheers
jim

[tonyjeffs[_2_]]

Dennis,
Here is a pic of the blocks. The wall is 7' high. The blocks are 8 x 8
x 9. One side is vertical, the other is tapered. The top course of
blocks comprises bell shaped copings
http://lh4.ggpht.com/tonyjeffs2/SQh7...y%20blocks.jpg

Jim,
I did check with planning.The planning requirements changed at the
beginning of october. We're allowed to take it outwards by 3 m without
planning permission, but we want to take it out 4 metres so do need
consent. The total floor area is 12m.
I think you have a point though about the whole thing falling in on my
head - if I don't get the join with the garden wall right, that could
be a source of endless damp problems!! :-/

Here's a mockup of roughly what the conservatory will be like, but
without that silly peak on the roof.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/tonyjeffs2/SL_u...ory%20copy.jpg

Tony

[jim]

On 29 Oct, 15:22, tonyjeffs wrote:
Dennis,
Here is a pic of the blocks. The wall is 7' high. The blocks are 8 x 8
x 9. One side is vertical, the other is tapered. The top course of
blocks comprises bell shaped copingshttp://lh4.ggpht.com/tonyjeffs2/SQh76eiqCvI/AAAAAAAAARU/-RsN4U-ZHgg/s...

Jim,
I did check with planning.The planning requirements changed at the
beginning of october. We're allowed to take it outwards by 3 m without
planning permission, but we want to take it out 4 metres so do need
consent. The total floor area is 12m.
I think you have a point though about the whole thing falling in on my
head - if I don't get the join with the garden wall right, that could
be a source of endless damp problems!! :-/

Here's a mockup of roughly what the conservatory will be like, but
without that silly peak on the roof.http://lh3.ggpht.com/tonyjeffs2/SL_u.../I7sHDuErSng/s...

Tony

Hi tony

Ah OK so Planning is required but I doubt they will be that interested
in the construction details as that is Building Control - who (at
least when I did mine last year) are not legally allowed to be
interested unless structure more than 30m2 as long as mainly
transparent etc (& other easily met conditions).

Pic looks interesting - is said wall to the right? does it slope away
from your side to "hold" next doors yard/extension up? Who built it?
is it on your land? - have the neighbours built on top of it/used it
as support for extension? did they have permission? any paperwork/
deeds for it?

I spose at end of day if you can't take that possibly retaining(?)
wall out and rebuild it *solidly* in a vertical fashion to all's
satisfaction, you will have to just make the best of it, leave it
alone and build right up against it?
To me it seems unlikey you'd gain much space even if you did rebuild
it - as you could bet your neighbours would involve Bldg Ctrl who
would be interested and they'd probly make you build a replacement as
thick if not thicker!!

Cheer
Jim

[tonyjeffs[_2_]]

Jim
Sorry for rudeness in not replying - I drafted reply and lost it in
the ether, got sidetracked, and forgot....

Hi tony

Ah OK so Planning is required but I doubt they will be that interested
in the construction details as that is Building Control - who (at
least when I did mine last year) are not legally allowed to be
interested unless structure more than 30m2 as long as mainly
transparent etc (& other easily met conditions).

That sounds ok. Is that 30m3 volume, or 30m2 floor area?


Pic looks interesting - is said wall to the right?
Yes

does it slope away
from your side to "hold" next doors yard/extension up? Who built it?

No - It's perpendicular to the houe wall, built some 70 years ago,
supporting nothing.

is it on your land? - have the neighbours built on top of it/used it
as support for extension? did they have permission? any paperwork/
deeds for it?

No -none of the above.


I spose at end of day if you can't take that possibly retaining(?)
wall out and rebuild it *solidly* in a vertical fashion to all's
satisfaction, you will have to just make the best of it, leave it
alone and build right up against it?
Yes - it's 8" thick, so only 4" is on our land.



To me it seems unlikey you'd gain much space even if you did rebuild
it - as you could bet your neighbours would involve Bldg Ctrl who
would be interested and they'd probly make you build a replacement as
thick if not thicker!!


The big problem is, I think that the sloping roof is quite high - It
needs to be to look right, to have the same slope as the adjacant
kitchen roof. It will seriously loom down on next door's patio area,
and if I was them I certainly wouldn't like it, so I won't blame them
if they object. There isn't really a good way of lowering it. I
could put a slope towards one side, so looking down on it, it'd be a
rectangle with a diagonal line '\' from the top middle to the bottom
corner, but that wouldn't help much.

Anyway I'll put in the plans and take it from there. I have other jobs
on the go, so don't expect to start until January, and even then only
if the weather is nice!

I might also look into the possibility of wood which would allow more
flexibility in shapes and sizes and changes on the fly.

Thanks for the tips, and especially the clarification on the role of
Building Control.

cheers
Tony

[jim]

On 9 Nov, 09:15, tonyjeffs wrote:
Jim
Sorry for rudeness in not replying - I drafted reply and lost it in
the ether, got sidetracked, and forgot....

no probs

Ah OK so Planning is required but I doubt they will be that interested
in the construction details as that is Building Control - who (at
least when I did mine last year) are not legally allowed to be
interested unless structure more than 30m2 as long as mainly
transparent etc (& other easily met conditions).

That sounds ok. Is that 30m3 volume, or 30m2 floor area?

floor area (there were/are other conditions but nothing that would
bother most conservatories - check this group or google for the full
sp.

Pic looks interesting - is said wall to the right?

Yes

does it slope away

from your side to "hold" next doors yard/extension up? Who built it?
No - It's perpendicular to the houe wall, built some 70 years ago,
supporting nothing.

is it on your land? - have the neighbours built on top of it/used it
as support for extension? did they have permission? any paperwork/
deeds for it?

No -none of the above.

So if they are reasonable people I would be tempted to talk to the
neighbours and "sell" the idea of your nice new conservatory wall
replacing the "ugly" "unsafe" existing garden wall with rendered
block ? that they could paint to whatever colour they want on their
side and make a nice corner area up against your conserv.....

You could also broach the topic of the roof line etc and see what they
say - which way does the sun shine round there? that would be my only
concern if i lived next door and your conserv made my patch "much"
darker - then again I like to think I'm a reasonable guy!!

If they aren;t reasonable - you could research with council over phone
answers to hypothetical questions along the lines of "I want to build
a conservatory in my back garden - on what grounds could the
neighbours stop me?" etc or as you suggest bung aplanning app in and
let em try and stop you once and for all.

Anyway I'll put in the plans and take it from there. I have other jobs
on the go, so don't expect to start until January, and even then only
if the weather is nice!

The planning app will tell you who is legally interested in what you
want and also what the rest of the neighbours think (or actually
object - you can read who said what at the council planning office
later ;)) about your ideas.

I might also look into the possibility of wood which would allow more
flexibility in shapes and sizes and changes on the fly.

Well wood allows more detailed fancy finishes (think on the inside)
but does need care -mine is wood but with aluminium capping bars over
the rafters so *should* only need the external sides looking after!

Thanks for the tips, and especially the clarification on the role of
Building Control.

you're welcome
hope it works out
Jim

[dennis@home]

"jim" wrote in message
...
On 9 Nov, 09:15, tonyjeffs wrote:
Jim
Sorry for rudeness in not replying - I drafted reply and lost it in
the ether, got sidetracked, and forgot....

no probs

Ah OK so Planning is required but I doubt they will be that interested
in the construction details as that is Building Control - who (at
least when I did mine last year) are not legally allowed to be
interested unless structure more than 30m2 as long as mainly
transparent etc (& other easily met conditions).

That sounds ok. Is that 30m3 volume, or 30m2 floor area?

floor area (there were/are other conditions but nothing that would
bother most conservatories - check this group or google for the full
sp.

I think you are mixed up.

A conservatory or any other extension may not need planning permission.
See http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...315206517.html
for the new rules that started a couple of weeks ago.

It will have to meet building regulations and may need specific approval and
inspection.
Just because a building doesn't need approval for building regulations does
not mean that the regulations do not apply!

The planning portal above give building regulations guidance as well and I
think you may well need it as it effects the heat management of the
building. As it happens so does fitting draught excluders and I can't see
them wanting approval for that even though it appear to not exclude them in
the part L regulations.

[jim]

On 9 Nov, 16:04, "dennis@home" wrote:



Just because a building doesn't need approval for building regulations does
not mean that the regulations do not apply!

eh? why?

[jim]

On 9 Nov, 16:04, "dennis@home" wrote:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...315205815.html

deals with conservatories - which is what the OP is interested
in...and says:-

"Building Regulations

Building regulations will generally apply if you want to build an
extension to your home. However, conservatories are normally exempt
when they meet a number of conditions."

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...315206234.html

says
"Conservatories are normally exempt from building regulations when:

1. They are built at ground level and are less than 30 square
metres in floor area
2. At least half of the new wall and three quarters of the roof is
either glazed or translucent material
3. The conservatory is separated from the house by external quality
door(s).
4. Glazing and any fixed electrical installations comply with the
applicable building regulations requirements (see below).


You are advised not to construct conservatories where they will
restrict ladder access to windows serving rooms in roof or loft
conversions, particularly if any of the windows are intended to help
escape or rescue if there is a fire.

Any new structural opening between the conservatory and the existing
house will require building regulations approval, even if the
conservatory itself is an exempt structure."

cheers
Jim

[dennis@home]

"jim" wrote in message
...
On 9 Nov, 16:04, "dennis@home" wrote:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...315205815.html

deals with conservatories - which is what the OP is interested
in...and says:-

Why does the OP keep talking about planning permission then?

[dennis@home]

"jim" wrote in message
...
On 9 Nov, 16:04, "dennis@home" wrote:



Just because a building doesn't need approval for building regulations
does
not mean that the regulations do not apply!

eh? why?


Because it still has to be safe even though you don't have to have it
inspected.

[jim]

On 10 Nov, 23:25, "dennis@home" wrote:
"jim" wrote in message

...

On 9 Nov, 16:04, "dennis@home" wrote:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...315205815.html

deals with conservatories - which is what the OP is interested
in...and says:-

Why does the OP keep talking about planning permission then?

erm.... read the whole thread?

[jim]

On 10 Nov, 23:26, "dennis@home" wrote:
"jim" wrote in message

...

On 9 Nov, 16:04, "dennis@home" wrote:

Just because a building doesn't need approval for building regulations
does
not mean that the regulations do not apply!

eh? why?

Because it still has to be safe even though you don't have to have it
inspected.

So, specifically, which Building Regulations do you suggest the OP
follows - for his conservatory that *doesn't* come under the Building
Regulations, to ensure it's "safe" ??

Anything other than common sense? I think not - otherwise conservs
would surely come under the regs in first place?!

If the OP wants to check details out then he can ask whoever he wants
- builders, on UKDIY, even the BCO if he's interested.

Seems like it's one of the last freedoms/responsibilities left in this
country - enjoy it while you can Tony!!

Cheers
Jim