A DIY & home improvement forum. DIYbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » DIYbanter forum » Do - it - Yourself » UK diy
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Mortar setting time



 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 29th 08, 11:19 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,421
Default Mortar setting time

I am lifting the roof on an old pig farrowing barn to accommodate a
furniture restorer.

The roof is heavy but can be moved in one piece. So far I have raised
one side on Acrows and intend to lay two courses of brick to gain the
height needed.

What is a reasonable time to wait before heavily loading fresh
brickwork? I am particularly nervous of any side thrust encountered as I
start to jack up the other side.

regards
--
Tim Lamb
Ads
  #2  
Old October 29th 08, 03:14 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default Mortar setting time

On 29 Oct, 11:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
I am lifting the roof on an old pig farrowing barn to accommodate a
furniture restorer.

The roof is heavy but can be moved in one piece. So far I have raised
one side on Acrows and intend to lay two courses of brick to gain the
height needed.

What is a reasonable time to wait before heavily loading fresh
brickwork? I am particularly nervous of any side thrust encountered as I
start to jack up the other side.

regards
--
Tim Lamb


I would leave it 48Hrs ... 24 Hrs is no problem if a simple daed load,
but as you point out there is side thrust, and bricks not particularly
strong in that direction.

use a good 3:1 mix and suitable bricks, deep frog frettons as a
minimum, laid frog up, and fully filled ... or engineering if you have
them.
  #3  
Old October 29th 08, 03:27 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,367
Default Mortar setting time


I would leave it 48Hrs ...


That seems very, very short.

Watching my brickies recently take off a couple of courses where
they'd made a mistake on a chimney stack, 2 days after they'd gone on
- they had not the slightest difficulty in such green mortar - still
very easy to clean off.

ISTR - a long, long time ago when I worked for Costain - the cure time
for mass concrete (in the Summer) was 4 weeks after the shutters came
off. Certainly when I'm using concrete, I'm surprised how easy it is
to chip for the first week or two - compared to how hard it gets
eventually.

In the current cold weather I'd plan on doing some other job - before
putting, as you say, a significant sheer load on your new courses.

You might find useful manufacturers data here - certainly their advice
on concrete I found useful:

http://www.lafargecement.co.uk/site_...ge/default.asp
  #4  
Old October 29th 08, 09:11 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,421
Default Mortar setting time

In message
,
Osprey writes
On 29 Oct, 11:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
I am lifting the roof on an old pig farrowing barn to accommodate a
furniture restorer.

The roof is heavy but can be moved in one piece. So far I have raised
one side on Acrows and intend to lay two courses of brick to gain the
height needed.

What is a reasonable time to wait before heavily loading fresh
brickwork? I am particularly nervous of any side thrust encountered as I
start to jack up the other side.

regards
--
Tim Lamb


I would leave it 48Hrs ... 24 Hrs is no problem if a simple daed load,
but as you point out there is side thrust, and bricks not particularly
strong in that direction.

use a good 3:1 mix and suitable bricks, deep frog frettons as a
minimum, laid frog up, and fully filled ... or engineering if you have
them.


OK. The brickwork will be Flettons for the first course and
semi-engineering for the top. Basically because that is what I have
lying about the farm:-) I can easily wait 3 days as I also have to fit a
wider door and re-plumb the electrical conduit.

regards
--
Tim Lamb
  #5  
Old October 29th 08, 09:29 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,421
Default Mortar setting time

In message
,
" writes

I would leave it 48Hrs ...


That seems very, very short.

Watching my brickies recently take off a couple of courses where
they'd made a mistake on a chimney stack, 2 days after they'd gone on
- they had not the slightest difficulty in such green mortar - still
very easy to clean off.

ISTR - a long, long time ago when I worked for Costain - the cure time
for mass concrete (in the Summer) was 4 weeks after the shutters came
off. Certainly when I'm using concrete, I'm surprised how easy it is
to chip for the first week or two - compared to how hard it gets
eventually.

In the current cold weather I'd plan on doing some other job - before
putting, as you say, a significant sheer load on your new courses.

You might find useful manufacturers data here - certainly their advice
on concrete I found useful:

http://www.lafargecement.co.uk/site_...ge/default.asp


Interesting site.

They give 2 days = 16-26 N/mm2

7 days= 27-37 N/mm2

28 days= 37-47 N/mm2

for compressive strength on CEM 1 product.

I should be able to wait 5 days and get roughly half final strength.

regards

--
Tim Lamb
  #6  
Old October 29th 08, 10:54 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,160
Default Mortar setting time


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message
,
Osprey writes
On 29 Oct, 11:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
I am lifting the roof on an old pig farrowing barn to accommodate

a
furniture restorer.

The roof is heavy but can be moved in one piece. So far I have

raised
one side on Acrows and intend to lay two courses of brick to gain

the
height needed.

What is a reasonable time to wait before heavily loading fresh
brickwork? I am particularly nervous of any side thrust

encountered as I
start to jack up the other side.

regards
--
Tim Lamb


I would leave it 48Hrs ... 24 Hrs is no problem if a simple daed

load,
but as you point out there is side thrust, and bricks not

particularly
strong in that direction.

use a good 3:1 mix and suitable bricks, deep frog frettons as a
minimum, laid frog up, and fully filled ... or engineering if you

have
them.


OK. The brickwork will be Flettons for the first course and
semi-engineering for the top. Basically because that is what I have
lying about the farm:-) I can easily wait 3 days as I also have to

fit a
wider door and re-plumb the electrical conduit.

regards
--
Tim Lamb


Tim,

Very temperature dependant: I've just laid 8 cu m of RC40 concrete and
it took two days in the current cold snap to 'not' take a finger
impression. Earlier in the year I laid a batch of the very same stuff
on a blazing hot day and we couldn't finish tamping before it set
solid (perhaps 1.5 hours from delivery)

Cement re-hydradtion (ie setting) is a chemical reaction and thus very
dependent on the temp. When it starts to go off though it is
exothermic - ie gives off heat.

AWEM


  #7  
Old October 30th 08, 08:53 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,421
Default Mortar setting time

In message , Andrew Mawson
writes
Tim,

Very temperature dependant: I've just laid 8 cu m of RC40 concrete and
it took two days in the current cold snap to 'not' take a finger
impression. Earlier in the year I laid a batch of the very same stuff
on a blazing hot day and we couldn't finish tamping before it set
solid (perhaps 1.5 hours from delivery)

Cement re-hydradtion (ie setting) is a chemical reaction and thus very
dependent on the temp. When it starts to go off though it is
exothermic - ie gives off heat.


Hmm.. only a few degrees above freezing for the next few days:-(

I suppose I could make a temporary timber frame to support side 1 while
I move the acrows to side 2. Lots of extra work though.

I think I will avoid bricks with a high moisture content (stored
outside) and try poking the mortar after a few days. The wall plate will
be strapped down anyway. Temporary buttresses could be screwed to
various bits of concrete if it still looks dodgy.

Thanks all.

regards

--
Tim Lamb
  #9  
Old October 30th 08, 01:48 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 742
Default Mortar setting time

On Oct 29, 10:54 pm, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message

...



In message
,
Osprey writes
On 29 Oct, 11:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
I am lifting the roof on an old pig farrowing barn to accommodate

a
furniture restorer.


The roof is heavy but can be moved in one piece. So far I have

raised
one side on Acrows and intend to lay two courses of brick to gain

the
height needed.


What is a reasonable time to wait before heavily loading fresh
brickwork? I am particularly nervous of any side thrust

encountered as I
start to jack up the other side.


regards
--
Tim Lamb


I would leave it 48Hrs ... 24 Hrs is no problem if a simple daed

load,
but as you point out there is side thrust, and bricks not

particularly
strong in that direction.


use a good 3:1 mix and suitable bricks, deep frog frettons as a
minimum, laid frog up, and fully filled ... or engineering if you

have
them.


OK. The brickwork will be Flettons for the first course and
semi-engineering for the top. Basically because that is what I have
lying about the farm:-) I can easily wait 3 days as I also have to

fit a
wider door and re-plumb the electrical conduit.


regards
--
Tim Lamb


Tim,

Very temperature dependant: I've just laid 8 cu m of RC40 concrete and
it took two days in the current cold snap to 'not' take a finger
impression. Earlier in the year I laid a batch of the very same stuff
on a blazing hot day and we couldn't finish tamping before it set
solid (perhaps 1.5 hours from delivery)

Cement re-hydradtion (ie setting) is a chemical reaction and thus very
dependent on the temp. When it starts to go off though it is
exothermic - ie gives off heat.


The heat given off can be an issue with bulk concrete (they
incorporated cooling pipes in the Hoover Dam), but it's extremely
likely to be detectable for mortar joints between bricks - there just
isn't enough of it!

(But the point about temperature dependance is /very/ relevant.)
  #10  
Old October 30th 08, 03:18 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,056
Default Mortar setting time

Martin Bonner wrote:
On Oct 29, 10:54 pm, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message

...



In message
,
Osprey writes
On 29 Oct, 11:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
I am lifting the roof on an old pig farrowing barn to accommodate

a
furniture restorer.
The roof is heavy but can be moved in one piece. So far I have

raised
one side on Acrows and intend to lay two courses of brick to gain

the
height needed.
What is a reasonable time to wait before heavily loading fresh
brickwork? I am particularly nervous of any side thrust

encountered as I
start to jack up the other side.
regards
--
Tim Lamb
I would leave it 48Hrs ... 24 Hrs is no problem if a simple daed

load,
but as you point out there is side thrust, and bricks not

particularly
strong in that direction.
use a good 3:1 mix and suitable bricks, deep frog frettons as a
minimum, laid frog up, and fully filled ... or engineering if you

have
them.
OK. The brickwork will be Flettons for the first course and
semi-engineering for the top. Basically because that is what I have
lying about the farm:-) I can easily wait 3 days as I also have to

fit a
wider door and re-plumb the electrical conduit.
regards
--
Tim Lamb

Tim,

Very temperature dependant: I've just laid 8 cu m of RC40 concrete and
it took two days in the current cold snap to 'not' take a finger
impression. Earlier in the year I laid a batch of the very same stuff
on a blazing hot day and we couldn't finish tamping before it set
solid (perhaps 1.5 hours from delivery)

Cement re-hydradtion (ie setting) is a chemical reaction and thus very
dependent on the temp. When it starts to go off though it is
exothermic - ie gives off heat.


The heat given off can be an issue with bulk concrete (they
incorporated cooling pipes in the Hoover Dam), but it's extremely
likely to be detectable for mortar joints between bricks - there just
isn't enough of it!

(But the point about temperature dependance is /very/ relevant.)


Indeed. 2 hours to 2 days to just go 'crunchy' is the variation I have
noted. Over 0C-30C temp range.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Time to make a bowl (for use in setting a price) tww Woodturning 15 January 30th 08 05:33 PM
If you will threaten Sherry's pavement from time to time clients, it will consistently travel the protocol. Jessica[_6_] Metalworking 0 December 10th 07 12:41 AM
mortar bed under bathtub dry time spam disintegrator Home Repair 3 July 29th 07 02:52 AM
Time setting to within 50ms - nistime-32bit.rar (1/1) JackShephard Electronic Schematics 0 June 9th 07 07:51 AM
Time setting to within 50ms - nistime-32bit.rar (0/1) JackShephard Electronic Schematics 0 June 9th 07 07:51 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2004-2014 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.