UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,045
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI

...you may remember I asked about this with reference to an Elddis camper
built on a peugeot 2 liter boxer chassis.

Having more or less eliminated the engine system as it showed up well in
CO2 tests though 4 garages failed to actually be able to access the EMS
using half a dozen different diagnostic boxes and about 50 different
possible settings..teh final garage pushed teh tyres from 40 psi to
52ish..this seemed to make a slight improvement so I banged them up to
57/62 on our recent trip, and that does seem to have got the consumption
up from 20mpg to maybe 23-24mpg..I will go the full monty of 65 psi all
round next time I have access to an airline..

I think the problem arises because the actual chassis has tyre pressures
inside the drivers door opening,but these relate to the unloaded van,
not the 3.5tonne conversion. In short anyone else reading this who has a
camper on a van chassis is well advised to inflate the tyres to the
absolute maximum - typically 65psi cold, or even more if you dare, and
ignore the safety warnings..in fact anecdotal evidence of tyre failures
suggests that hot motorway cruises with underinflated tyres are far more
likely to blow them.

My tyres were remarked on by the MOT people as starting to perish and
delaminate round the tread to sidewall interface..another typical result
of habitual underinflation.

Given that the government in its infinite wisdom (TM), classes this as a
commercial vehicle, and therefore not subject to quite such swingeing
road tax, the improvement is enough for me to now consider it if not as
daily transport, at least as a viable second vehicle whenever I have a
largeish load to carry or can be assured of sensible parking at the far end.

Costwise its similar to the old Defender that it replaces, and has the
added advantage that you are never stuck for a place to relieve yourself
on a long trip..;-)


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
..you may remember I asked about this with reference to an Elddis camper
built on a peugeot 2 liter boxer chassis.

Having more or less eliminated the engine system as it showed up well in
CO2 tests though 4 garages failed to actually be able to access the EMS
using half a dozen different diagnostic boxes and about 50 different
possible settings..teh final garage pushed teh tyres from 40 psi to
52ish..this seemed to make a slight improvement so I banged them up to
57/62 on our recent trip, and that does seem to have got the consumption
up from 20mpg to maybe 23-24mpg..I will go the full monty of 65 psi all
round next time I have access to an airline..

I think the problem arises because the actual chassis has tyre pressures
inside the drivers door opening,but these relate to the unloaded van, not
the 3.5tonne conversion. In short anyone else reading this who has a
camper on a van chassis is well advised to inflate the tyres to the
absolute maximum - typically 65psi cold, or even more if you dare, and
ignore the safety warnings..in fact anecdotal evidence of tyre failures
suggests that hot motorway cruises with underinflated tyres are far more
likely to blow them.


the sticker on the door of the van should give tyre pressures for the van
empty and loaded, mine does,

but it's no use assuming it weighs 3.5 tons, get down a weigh bridge and
find out exactly what it weighs, go when they are not busy and get the
individual axle weights,

then e-mail the company that makes the tyres you have on the van, tell them
it's a motorhome, and the axle and total weights as well asthe exact tyre
size and model,

they will reply with suggested pressures for those circumstnaces,

i run goodyear cargo tyres on my motorhome (iveco turbodaily based, weighs
4.2 tons, 1650 kilos front, rest on the back axle) goodyear told me i'm best
running 3.5 bar front and 4 bar rear, i have twin rear wheels hence such a
low rear pressure for a heavy van as the weights spread out over 4 tyres at
the back.

yes underinflated tyres are more likely to blow, but over inflated tyres
give a hell of a bumpy ride in a motorhome, in bad cases causing the
overhead lockers to part with the walls,
but in bad cases the rock hard tyres are more likely to skid under very hard
braking, and one of the first things the vehicle inspectors do after a bad
accident is check tyre pressures.

The average motorhome gets about 25mpg, aerodynamics play a lot in this,
especialy if it's a coachbuilt with a standard overhanging luton,
my motorhome got about 27mpg when it was a standard panel van before the
body was built on it, it was totaly empty then as well, now with the
coachbuilt body, all the luxuaries i put in it taking the weight to 4.2 tons
in running order (i.e. 140 litres of diesel in the tanks, 150 litres of
water, 90 of gas, 70 of red diesel, full fridge, freezer and larder, all our
clothes etc) we now get around 24mpg, which for a 7 meter long coachbuilt
isnt too bad,

  #3   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,045
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI

gazz wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
..you may remember I asked about this with reference to an Elddis
camper built on a peugeot 2 liter boxer chassis.

Having more or less eliminated the engine system as it showed up well
in CO2 tests though 4 garages failed to actually be able to access the
EMS using half a dozen different diagnostic boxes and about 50
different possible settings..teh final garage pushed teh tyres from 40
psi to 52ish..this seemed to make a slight improvement so I banged
them up to 57/62 on our recent trip, and that does seem to have got
the consumption up from 20mpg to maybe 23-24mpg..I will go the full
monty of 65 psi all round next time I have access to an airline..

I think the problem arises because the actual chassis has tyre
pressures inside the drivers door opening,but these relate to the
unloaded van, not the 3.5tonne conversion. In short anyone else
reading this who has a camper on a van chassis is well advised to
inflate the tyres to the absolute maximum - typically 65psi cold, or
even more if you dare, and ignore the safety warnings..in fact
anecdotal evidence of tyre failures suggests that hot motorway cruises
with underinflated tyres are far more likely to blow them.


the sticker on the door of the van should give tyre pressures for the
van empty and loaded, mine does,

but it's no use assuming it weighs 3.5 tons, get down a weigh bridge and
find out exactly what it weighs, go when they are not busy and get the
individual axle weights,


I prefer to look at the manufacturers website where it states that it
weighs 3.5 tonnes. Or at least the later version does. They give no clue
as to tyre pressures though.

Or just go by feel. It certainly weighs more than my 2 ton Defender used
to, but feels similar to that loaded up with a tonne of bricks and a few
people..





then e-mail the company that makes the tyres you have on the van, tell
them it's a motorhome, and the axle and total weights as well asthe
exact tyre size and model,

they will reply with suggested pressures for those circumstnaces,


Didn't need to do that. The last garage I went top had a chart for the
tyre versus various weights..

Anyway Elddis recommend pressures which are totally in conflict with the
actual weight of a standard loaded vehicle. At the very best their
pressure recommendations apply to vehicles that are totally empty - i.e.
kerb weight. Typically thats about 2.8 tonnes..but by the time you are
ready to roll, the thing is over 3..


i run goodyear cargo tyres on my motorhome (iveco turbodaily based,
weighs 4.2 tons, 1650 kilos front, rest on the back axle) goodyear told
me i'm best running 3.5 bar front and 4 bar rear, i have twin rear
wheels hence such a low rear pressure for a heavy van as the weights
spread out over 4 tyres at the back.


somewhat similar then.


yes underinflated tyres are more likely to blow, but over inflated tyres
give a hell of a bumpy ride in a motorhome, in bad cases causing the
overhead lockers to part with the walls,
but in bad cases the rock hard tyres are more likely to skid under very
hard braking, and one of the first things the vehicle inspectors do
after a bad accident is check tyre pressures.


I find that the suspension actually works on most vehicles..

I dont do hard braking either. I am not really confident that the brakes
it has are up to stopping 3.5 tonnes that quickly. Certainly locking the
front brakes would be an interesting exercise that I doubt its capable
of. i wish I could put brakes the size of my old XKR brakes in it...they
really did stop 2 tins of jaguar in a hurry..

The average motorhome gets about 25mpg,


exactly. I was getting sub 20mpg. Ive rented homes before and a diesel
generally does 25-27mpg. This petrol now seems to be somewhere in the
23-25mpg area.

aerodynamics play a lot in this,
especialy if it's a coachbuilt with a standard overhanging luton,
my motorhome got about 27mpg when it was a standard panel van before the
body was built on it, it was totaly empty then as well, now with the
coachbuilt body, all the luxuaries i put in it taking the weight to 4.2
tons in running order (i.e. 140 litres of diesel in the tanks, 150
litres of water, 90 of gas, 70 of red diesel, full fridge, freezer and
larder, all our clothes etc) we now get around 24mpg, which for a 7
meter long coachbuilt isnt too bad,


Indeed.
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI

On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:37:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Anyway Elddis recommend pressures which are totally in conflict with the
actual weight of a standard loaded vehicle. At the very best their
pressure recommendations apply to vehicles that are totally empty - i.e.
kerb weight. Typically thats about 2.8 tonnes..but by the time you are
ready to roll, the thing is over 3..


Not the first time that recommended pressures are wrong. Best way is to
check pressures fairly regulary and keep an eye on tyre wear. Wear along
both the edges and not the center of the tread too low, wear in the center
and not the edges too high. Wear on one edge only bad alignment shows up
most on the fronts but the rears can be miss-aligned as well. Wear in
patches across the tread faulty shocks or brakes.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #5   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,045
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:37:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Anyway Elddis recommend pressures which are totally in conflict with the
actual weight of a standard loaded vehicle. At the very best their
pressure recommendations apply to vehicles that are totally empty - i.e.
kerb weight. Typically thats about 2.8 tonnes..but by the time you are
ready to roll, the thing is over 3..


Not the first time that recommended pressures are wrong. Best way is to
check pressures fairly regulary and keep an eye on tyre wear. Wear along
both the edges and not the center of the tread too low, wear in the center
and not the edges too high. Wear on one edge only bad alignment shows up
most on the fronts but the rears can be miss-aligned as well. Wear in
patches across the tread faulty shocks or brakes.

When you buy a second hand camper that has done a mere 23000 miles in
over ten years..its hard to tell anything about wear.


A couple more factoids have come to light: a recommendation to change
tyres every 5 years no matter what..and anecdotes of delaminating
underinflated tyres at high temperatures..

Anyway I think this machine is up for new tyres and wheel bearings
shortly. 3 tons plus is hard on a chassis designed for an executive saloon..


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI

On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:04:52 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

When you buy a second hand camper that has done a mere 23000 miles in
over ten years..its hard to tell anything about wear.


Sort of, it would still show if the previous owner habitually over or
under inflated the tyres and if the shock/brakes where knackered. I'd do
the basic check round of lights, pressures, fluids etc after taking
delivery of a new to me vehicle anyaway.

A couple more factoids have come to light: a recommendation to change
tyres every 5 years no matter what..


I've seen that as well I think comes tyre manufactureres and fears about
UV degenerating the rubber with a good dollop of nanny state. Certainly
look at them for signs of "perishing" and it might be wise for such a
heavy vehicle to be raised on to axle stands when stood for months on end.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #7   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,020
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


I prefer to look at the manufacturers website where it states that it
weighs 3.5 tonnes.


No it doesn't. It states that the GVW is 3.5 tonnes, which is not the
same thing.
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,045
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:04:52 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

When you buy a second hand camper that has done a mere 23000 miles in
over ten years..its hard to tell anything about wear.


Sort of, it would still show if the previous owner habitually over or
under inflated the tyres and if the shock/brakes where knackered. I'd do
the basic check round of lights, pressures, fluids etc after taking
delivery of a new to me vehicle anyaway.


Oh, that was done by the dealer..MOT and so on..


A couple more factoids have come to light: a recommendation to change
tyres every 5 years no matter what..


I've seen that as well I think comes tyre manufactureres and fears about
UV degenerating the rubber with a good dollop of nanny state. Certainly
look at them for signs of "perishing" and it might be wise for such a
heavy vehicle to be raised on to axle stands when stood for months on end.

well I am more or less using it as - well fortnightly transport..since
the road tax situation makes it expensive to keep unused/seldom used
vehicles on the road, its getting used as a second car..insurance is
cheap too.



Tyres ARE bad,espcecially the rears..cracking and splitting at the
tread/sidewall interface.

Will definitely get a new pair soon..whats good? don't need long life,
so much as low rolling resistance :-) Think its 195/70 15s...
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI

On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:45:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I'd do the basic check round of lights, pressures, fluids etc after
taking delivery of a new to me vehicle anyaway.


Oh, that was done by the dealer..MOT and so on..


My basic distrust of so called "professionals" would still have me
checking the vehical over.

Tyres ARE bad,espcecially the rears..cracking and splitting at the
tread/sidewall interface.


Surprised it got through an MOT like that. But looking at the MOT manual
it makes no mention of "perishing" just "cuts, lumps, bulges, tears,
exposure of the ply or cord, or tread separation".

Pressure is not checked either but:

under-inflation
Note: Under-inflation of a tyre is not in itself a reason for rejection.
However, a brake test might be inadvisable, because of possible damage, or
a headlight test might be affected, if the under-inflation is affecting
alignment

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_410.htm

Will definitely get a new pair soon..whats good?


Define "good", one of the "green" tyres will give you the low rolling
resistance but they cost more. If you aren't doing a really high mileage
then your probably better of getting a bog standard tyre as the small
change in mpg will take a long time to recoup the extra tyre cost.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #10   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI


"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


I prefer to look at the manufacturers website where it states that it
weighs 3.5 tonnes.


No it doesn't. It states that the GVW is 3.5 tonnes, which is not the
same thing.


thats what i was getting at with the weighbridge thing, thing is most
motorhome owners are scared of them as it would most likely show their
vehicle is overloaded,

half the motorhomes built nowadays seem to weigh around 3.3 tons empty, add
your clothes, a bit of water in the tank, some food and there's no weight
allowance left over for the driver,
half of the problem is motorhomes built on the al-ko chassis would have
origionaly been designed for it being rated at 3.8 tons, but they get
de-rated to 3.5 tons to sell more.... limitations of licences, higher speeds
on dual caridgeways, cheaper road tax for the european sold models etc.

One of the reasons i chose the iveco as my base vehicle when building my
motorhome was it uses the same chassis, engine and drive train on the 6 ton
version as it does on the 2.8 tonner, everything is heavy duty... and hence
expensive, rear wheel bearings are 100 quid each, discs are about 60 quid
each, shockers are 50 quid each and almost take 2 people to compress and
extend then a few times to de-airate them before fitting.




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,045
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:45:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I'd do the basic check round of lights, pressures, fluids etc after
taking delivery of a new to me vehicle anyaway.

Oh, that was done by the dealer..MOT and so on..


My basic distrust of so called "professionals" would still have me
checking the vehical over.

Tyres ARE bad,espcecially the rears..cracking and splitting at the
tread/sidewall interface.


Surprised it got through an MOT like that. But looking at the MOT manual
it makes no mention of "perishing" just "cuts, lumps, bulges, tears,
exposure of the ply or cord, or tread separation".

Pressure is not checked either but:

under-inflation
Note: Under-inflation of a tyre is not in itself a reason for rejection.
However, a brake test might be inadvisable, because of possible damage, or
a headlight test might be affected, if the under-inflation is affecting
alignment

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_410.htm

Will definitely get a new pair soon..whats good?


Define "good", one of the "green" tyres will give you the low rolling
resistance but they cost more. If you aren't doing a really high mileage
then your probably better of getting a bog standard tyre as the small
change in mpg will take a long time to recoup the extra tyre cost.

well it is costing about 25p per mile fuel, so 10% would be 2.5p per mile.

If two better tyres cost a tenner more each, that's break even at
£20/2.5p miles or 800 miles. Not a lot in say the 5 years of the tyres
life..

I did that much last week..
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,045
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI

gazz wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


I prefer to look at the manufacturers website where it states that it
weighs 3.5 tonnes.


No it doesn't. It states that the GVW is 3.5 tonnes, which is not the
same thing.


thats what i was getting at with the weighbridge thing, thing is most
motorhome owners are scared of them as it would most likely show their
vehicle is overloaded,

half the motorhomes built nowadays seem to weigh around 3.3 tons empty,
add your clothes, a bit of water in the tank, some food and there's no
weight allowance left over for the driver,
half of the problem is motorhomes built on the al-ko chassis would have
origionaly been designed for it being rated at 3.8 tons, but they get
de-rated to 3.5 tons to sell more.... limitations of licences, higher
speeds on dual caridgeways, cheaper road tax for the european sold
models etc.

One of the reasons i chose the iveco as my base vehicle when building my
motorhome was it uses the same chassis, engine and drive train on the 6
ton version as it does on the 2.8 tonner, everything is heavy duty...
and hence expensive, rear wheel bearings are 100 quid each, discs are
about 60 quid each, shockers are 50 quid each and almost take 2 people
to compress and extend then a few times to de-airate them before fitting.


From what I can glean its about 2.9 unloaded..only about 600kg of ****e
allowed.

2 people and 2 dogs is at leasts 100kg of that..then theres a bolt on
boot full of stuff..there must be maybe another 50-100kg of generalised
camping stuff...so its at least 3 tons ..

In the end I am not that concerned about what it exactly weighs: the
only downside of overhard tyres - and that on the charts would never be
more than 10% over at max pressure - is the harder ride and less
traction on the loose or under braking.

The benefits - tyres that don't prematurely wear out from flexure, and
better fuel consumption, is a worthwile return on the slight risk.
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,369
Default update to poor fuel consumption on Camper FYI



"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...

Define "good", one of the "green" tyres will give you the low rolling
resistance but they cost more. If you aren't doing a really high mileage
then your probably better of getting a bog standard tyre as the small
change in mpg will take a long time to recoup the extra tyre cost.


If you look at the weather you will say sod being green and fit some nice
wet weather tyres.
Green has no place if it endangers people and having stiff non sticky tyres
is not a good idea in the UK.

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poor Flush (update) - The Solution! Jen D UK diy 1 November 17th 07 04:18 PM
How do I remove my old oil fuel tank UPDATE 46erjoe Home Repair 1 July 31st 06 04:39 AM
wiring up my camper for mains andyv UK diy 6 July 18th 06 11:22 PM
German camper electrics andyv UK diy 3 July 13th 06 10:51 AM
Replacing coax in RV camper etc?? [email protected] Electronics Repair 5 May 18th 05 12:30 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"