[Simon Wilson[_2_]]

I have a stone built house with a (slightly leaking) slate roof that I
need to fix. The slates are held on with funny nails, and no roof felt
(it's a French thing apparently.

A couple of slates have moved but generally the wood etc. seems to be in
good nick.

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

It seems a bit expensive, but looks like it could/should be a do it once
and forget job. Does anyone know if diy is possible, or is it a
professional only job? Recommended suppliers?

TIA

--
/Simon

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:57:37 +0100, Simon Wilson wrote:

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

Not experience but my opinion is that without any sarking water will get
in and onto the timbers. If they can't dry properly and quickly 'cause
they are coated in foam they will rot.

Get the roof properly repaired and consider lifting the slates, fitting a
modern breathable sarking and reusing the old slates. Some will inevitably
not survive being lifted but unless they are in bad condition on 10 or 20%
will need replacing.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[[email protected]]

The downside of those treatments is it's non-removable - and if you
get a subsequent leak under the tiles, the water may be trapped by the
foam and the rafters slowly rot.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 28, 6:57*pm, Simon Wilson
wrote:
I have a stone built house with a (slightly leaking) slate roof that I
need to fix. The slates are held on with funny nails, and no roof felt
(it's a French thing apparently.

A couple of slates have moved but generally the wood etc. seems to be in
good nick.

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

It seems a bit expensive, but looks like it could/should be a do it once
and forget job. Does anyone know if diy is possible, or is it a
professional only job? Recommended suppliers?

TIA

Its a classic no-no. For more info see
http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index....oof_Insulation
or for more detail ask on the period property uk forum


NT

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:39:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The downside of those treatments is it's non-removable -

And another thing that I forget earlier, when it comes to sell and buyer
or surveyour will instantly think "What's it hiding?" or "the roof must be
bad if it's had to glued back from the inside".

--
Cheers
Dave.

[George \(dicegeorge\)]

I too have an old house with slates, some leaks,
but mostly patched with tape a few years ago.

i've been following discussions on this group for almost a year, learning
lots...

It has been shown to me that the nails in my roof are rusty,
so patching the slipped slates is only temporary,
they've all got to come off and go on again.

i'm too unskilled and clumsy and scared of falling (again) to do it myself,
i will however do insulation, ceilings etc,
and am clearing away the old lathe and plaster and dirt and ancient unused
pipes and wires
to make it easier for them.

sarking/ felt of a modern kind is recommended.

some recommend the scottish method of putting boards on the rafters,
then battens, then slates,
but i think this probably an unnecessary expense for herefordshire-
i have a lot of roof to get done.

Maybe boarding is a good idea for london where insulated roofspace is
valuable

some say the nails should be aluminium, not copper.

the spray-on foam people guarantee their job for 25 years,
but will their company exist in 25 years time?
and anyhow this building should last hundreds of years,

i dont need the roofspace so i'm going to have a cold ventilated roof space,
with insulation above the ceilings.

So I'll be able to walk around in the roof and look for leaks
(but not sure about this -
with no felt now i can see light through the gaps where slates have slipped,
and wet patches underneath them,
but with felt any dampness will flow down the felt
and be invisible to me,
hope this doesnt mean the timbers will rot...
)

and im gonna have a few skylights put in,
perhaps facing north so not too much burning sun,
but how to insulate them i dont yet know...

[george]


--




"Simon Wilson" wrote in message
...
I have a stone built house with a (slightly leaking) slate roof that I
need to fix. The slates are held on with funny nails, and no roof felt
(it's a French thing apparently.

A couple of slates have moved but generally the wood etc. seems to be in
good nick.

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

It seems a bit expensive, but looks like it could/should be a do it once
and forget job. Does anyone know if diy is possible, or is it a
professional only job? Recommended suppliers?

TIA

--
/Simon

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:10:50 +0100, George \(dicegeorge\) wrote:

and am clearing away the old lathe and plaster and dirt and ancient
unused pipes and wires to make it easier for them.

The strip and replace will mostly take place from the outside, after all
that is where the sarking, battens and slates are... There will be all
manner of muck falling onto the boards, ceilings or insulation though so
making it clean is a waste of effort as you'll have to do it again when
the roof is done.

So I'll be able to walk around in the roof and look for leaks
(but not sure about this - with no felt now i can see light through the
gaps where slates have slipped,

Tyvek is translucent so daylight from slipped slates is still visible in a
darkened loft sapce.

but with felt any dampness will flow down the felt and be invisible to
me, hope this doesnt mean the timbers will rot...

Any new timbers should be pressure treated but anyway there is ample
ventilation under the slates for the battens to dry if they get a bit wet.
The sarking keeps the rafters dry.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Simon Wilson wrote:
I have a stone built house with a (slightly leaking) slate roof that I
need to fix. The slates are held on with funny nails, and no roof felt
(it's a French thing apparently.

A couple of slates have moved but generally the wood etc. seems to be in
good nick.

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

Only second hand, and the general advice is that of all the things you
can do to make a house roof unrepairable ever again, and render the
house unsaleable, this is no 1.


It seems a bit expensive, but looks like it could/should be a do it once
and forget job. Does anyone know if diy is possible, or is it a
professional only job? Recommended suppliers?

TIA

[The Natural Philosopher]

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:57:37 +0100, Simon Wilson wrote:

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

Not experience but my opinion is that without any sarking water will get
in and onto the timbers. If they can't dry properly and quickly 'cause
they are coated in foam they will rot.


sarking is not for waterproofing, its for windproofing. Ive lived under
an uninsulated unsarked slate roof and it was dry as a bone, but with no
loft insulation either it was the coldest place I have ever lived in. In
winter..in summer..it was the hottest.


Get the roof properly repaired and consider lifting the slates, fitting a
modern breathable sarking and reusing the old slates. Some will inevitably
not survive being lifted but unless they are in bad condition on 10 or 20%
will need replacing.


That's good advice, if given for the wrong reasons. If you want a warm
roof, fit celotex between te rafters and board over. That IS a DIY job.

[[email protected]]

On 28 Jul, 18:57, Simon Wilson
wrote:
I have a stone built house with a (slightly leaking) slate roof that I
need to fix. The slates are held on with funny nails, and no roof felt
(it's a French thing apparently.

A couple of slates have moved but generally the wood etc. seems to be in
good nick.

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

It seems a bit expensive, but looks like it could/should be a do it once
and forget job. Does anyone know if diy is possible, or is it a
professional only job? Recommended suppliers?

TIA

--
/Simon

Dear Simon
I agree with the other posts that this is just about the last thing to
do for the reasons given - lack of reversibility - rot not to mention
future sale risk.
Chris G

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Simon Wilson wrote:
Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Do *not* under any circumstances. Google on it.

What you're doing is sealing in any future leaks on a roof not designed
for it. Timber needs a good air supply to prevent rot.

--
*No sentence fragments *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Simon Wilson[_2_]]

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:57:37 +0100, Simon Wilson wrote:

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

Not experience but my opinion is that without any sarking water will get
in and onto the timbers. If they can't dry properly and quickly 'cause
they are coated in foam they will rot.

Get the roof properly repaired and consider lifting the slates, fitting a
modern breathable sarking and reusing the old slates. Some will inevitably
not survive being lifted but unless they are in bad condition on 10 or 20%
will need replacing.


Thanks. Looks like getting it repaired, consider sarking and diy fit
insulation board is the way to go.

--
/Simon

[Simon Wilson[_2_]]

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:57:37 +0100, Simon Wilson wrote:

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like
this: http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

Not experience but my opinion is that without any sarking water will
get in and onto the timbers. If they can't dry properly and quickly
'cause they are coated in foam they will rot.


sarking is not for waterproofing, its for windproofing. Ive lived under
an uninsulated unsarked slate roof and it was dry as a bone, but with no
loft insulation either it was the coldest place I have ever lived in. In
winter..in summer..it was the hottest.


Get the roof properly repaired and consider lifting the slates,
fitting a modern breathable sarking and reusing the old slates. Some
will inevitably not survive being lifted but unless they are in bad
condition on 10 or 20% will need replacing.


That's good advice, if given for the wrong reasons. If you want a warm
roof, fit celotex between te rafters and board over. That IS a DIY job.


Thanks for the advice.

--
/Simon

[Simon Wilson[_2_]]

wrote:
The downside of those treatments is it's non-removable - and if you
get a subsequent leak under the tiles, the water may be trapped by the
foam and the rafters slowly rot.

aye. Seems to be the common thought. Thanks for the reply.

--
/Simon

[Simon Wilson[_2_]]

wrote:
On Jul 28, 6:57 pm, Simon Wilson
wrote:
I have a stone built house with a (slightly leaking) slate roof that I
need to fix. The slates are held on with funny nails, and no roof felt
(it's a French thing apparently.

A couple of slates have moved but generally the wood etc. seems to be in
good nick.

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

It seems a bit expensive, but looks like it could/should be a do it once
and forget job. Does anyone know if diy is possible, or is it a
professional only job? Recommended suppliers?

TIA

Its a classic no-no. For more info see
http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index....oof_Insulation
or for more detail ask on the period property uk forum


NT

Thanks for the link.

--
/Simon

[Simon Wilson[_2_]]

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Simon Wilson wrote:
I have a stone built house with a (slightly leaking) slate roof that I
need to fix. The slates are held on with funny nails, and no roof felt
(it's a French thing apparently.

A couple of slates have moved but generally the wood etc. seems to be
in good nick.

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

Only second hand, and the general advice is that of all the things you
can do to make a house roof unrepairable ever again, and render the
house unsaleable, this is no 1.


It seems a bit expensive, but looks like it could/should be a do it
once and forget job. Does anyone know if diy is possible, or is it a
professional only job? Recommended suppliers?

TIA


Thanks for the advice. I think it's a resounding 'no' :-)

--
/Simon

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:57:45 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Not experience but my opinion is that without any sarking water will
get in and onto the timbers. If they can't dry properly and quickly
'cause they are coated in foam they will rot.

sarking is not for waterproofing, its for windproofing.

It's a secondary waterproof layer, water will get through a slate roof
with the rain/wind in the right (wrong?) direction and strengths. And once
a slate slips or fails water will certainly get in.

Keeping the wind out of the loft is a good point though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Stuart Noble]

Simon Wilson wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Simon Wilson wrote:
I have a stone built house with a (slightly leaking) slate roof that
I need to fix. The slates are held on with funny nails, and no roof
felt (it's a French thing apparently.

A couple of slates have moved but generally the wood etc. seems to be
in good nick.

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like
this: http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

Only second hand, and the general advice is that of all the things you
can do to make a house roof unrepairable ever again, and render the
house unsaleable, this is no 1.


It seems a bit expensive, but looks like it could/should be a do it
once and forget job. Does anyone know if diy is possible, or is it a
professional only job? Recommended suppliers?

TIA


Thanks for the advice. I think it's a resounding 'no' :-)


Except to say that a house at the back of us was done 20 years or so ago
and, although I haven't been in their loft, there don't appear to be any
loose slates. If it was, say, 25% of the cost of re-slating, I might be
tempted, but not otherwise.

[Andy Hall]

On 2008-07-29 09:18:03 +0100, stuart noble said:

Simon Wilson wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Simon Wilson wrote:
I have a stone built house with a (slightly leaking) slate roof that I
need to fix. The slates are held on with funny nails, and no roof felt
(it's a French thing apparently.

A couple of slates have moved but generally the wood etc. seems to be
in good nick.

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

Only second hand, and the general advice is that of all the things you
can do to make a house roof unrepairable ever again, and render the
house unsaleable, this is no 1.


It seems a bit expensive, but looks like it could/should be a do it
once and forget job. Does anyone know if diy is possible, or is it a
professional only job? Recommended suppliers?

TIA


Thanks for the advice. I think it's a resounding 'no' :-)


Except to say that a house at the back of us was done 20 years or so
ago and, although I haven't been in their loft, there don't appear to
be any loose slates. If it was, say, 25% of the cost of re-slating, I
might be tempted, but not otherwise.

This isn't really the equation, though.

It's really a gamble with the cost of a complete new roof including
timbers. Effect on saleability can't be measured. If I were a
buyer, I would either be walking away or would be wanting to deduct the
cost of a complete new roof and timbers. That would take the status
back to the point of what it would have been like if fixed properly in
the first place.

[Stuart Noble]

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-07-29 09:18:03 +0100, stuart noble
said:

Simon Wilson wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Simon Wilson wrote:
I have a stone built house with a (slightly leaking) slate roof
that I need to fix. The slates are held on with funny nails, and no
roof felt (it's a French thing apparently.

A couple of slates have moved but generally the wood etc. seems to
be in good nick.

Once I get the leaks sorted I'm thinking of doing something like
this: http://www.warmroof.co.uk/

Does anyone have any experience of it please?

Only second hand, and the general advice is that of all the things
you can do to make a house roof unrepairable ever again, and render
the house unsaleable, this is no 1.


It seems a bit expensive, but looks like it could/should be a do it
once and forget job. Does anyone know if diy is possible, or is it
a professional only job? Recommended suppliers?

TIA


Thanks for the advice. I think it's a resounding 'no' :-)


Except to say that a house at the back of us was done 20 years or so
ago and, although I haven't been in their loft, there don't appear to
be any loose slates. If it was, say, 25% of the cost of re-slating, I
might be tempted, but not otherwise.

This isn't really the equation, though.

It's really a gamble with the cost of a complete new roof including
timbers. Effect on saleability can't be measured. If I were a
buyer, I would either be walking away or would be wanting to deduct the
cost of a complete new roof and timbers. That would take the status
back to the point of what it would have been like if fixed properly in
the first place.



The building in question has changed hands at least twice since it was
done, and is currently occupied by a firm of civil engineers with
swanky, sweet-smelling offices, so I think we can assume nothing major
has occurred aloft.

Our house was originally part of the same property, and we decided at
about the same time that re-slating was the way to go. I don't regret
that but it does show that it's maybe not quite so cut and dried an issue.

[Andy Hall]

On 2008-07-29 10:24:42 +0100, stuart noble said:

The building in question has changed hands at least twice since it was
done, and is currently occupied by a firm of civil engineers with
swanky, sweet-smelling offices, so I think we can assume nothing major
has occurred aloft.

Our house was originally part of the same property, and we decided at
about the same time that re-slating was the way to go. I don't regret
that but it does show that it's maybe not quite so cut and dried an
issue.

Case of risk/return

[Andy Hall]

On 2008-07-29 10:24:42 +0100, stuart noble said:

The building in question has changed hands at least twice since it was
done, and is currently occupied by a firm of civil engineers with
swanky, sweet-smelling offices, so I think we can assume nothing major
has occurred aloft.

Our house was originally part of the same property, and we decided at
about the same time that re-slating was the way to go. I don't regret
that but it does show that it's maybe not quite so cut and dried an
issue.

Case of risk/return

[George \(dicegeorge\)]

but if sarking stops wind
then it wont it be hotter in summer
cos the sun will heat the roof space air
with less ventiation???

sarking is not for waterproofing, its for windproofing. Ive lived under
an uninsulated unsarked slate roof and it was dry as a bone, but with no
loft insulation either it was the coldest place I have ever lived in. In
winter..in summer..it was the hottest.

[[email protected]]

the spray-on foam people guarantee their job for 25 years,

What is it that they guarantee for 25 years?

That the foam won't fall off, or that there will be no leaks through
to the living space - or what you really want - that should a leak
lead to rot in the rafters, they will replace the rafters?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:57:45 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Not experience but my opinion is that without any sarking water will
get in and onto the timbers. If they can't dry properly and quickly
'cause they are coated in foam they will rot.
sarking is not for waterproofing, its for windproofing.

It's a secondary waterproof layer, water will get through a slate roof
with the rain/wind in the right (wrong?) direction and strengths. And once
a slate slips or fails water will certainly get in.

Keeping the wind out of the loft is a good point though.

Stops the slates lifting in the gales. That's the primary function.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 28, 11:10*pm, "George \(dicegeorge\)"
wrote:
I *too have an old house with slates, some leaks,
but mostly patched with tape a few years ago.

i've been following discussions on this group for almost a year, learning
lots...

It has been shown to me that the nails in my roof are rusty,
so patching the slipped slates is only temporary,
they've all got to come off and go on again.

i'm too unskilled and *clumsy and scared of falling (again) to do it myself,
i will however do insulation, ceilings etc,
and am clearing away the old lathe and plaster and dirt and ancient unused
pipes and wires
to make it easier for them.

sarking/ felt of a modern kind is recommended.

some recommend the scottish method of putting boards on the rafters,
then battens, then slates,
but i think this probably an unnecessary expense for herefordshire-
i have a lot of roof to get done.

Maybe boarding is a good idea for london where insulated roofspace is
valuable

some say the nails should be aluminium, not copper.

the spray-on foam people guarantee their job for 25 years,
but will their company exist in 25 years time?
and anyhow this building should last hundreds of years,

i dont need the roofspace so i'm going to have a cold ventilated roof space,
with insulation above the ceilings.

So I'll be able to walk around in the roof and look for leaks
(but not sure about this -
with no felt now i can see light through the gaps where slates have slipped,
and wet patches underneath them,
but with felt any dampness will flow down the felt
and be invisible to me,
hope this doesnt mean the timbers will rot...
)

and im gonna have a few skylights put in,
perhaps facing north so not too much burning sun,
but how to insulate them i dont yet know...

* * * * * * * * * *[george]


I assume then you know that slate loss isnt a reason to reroof. Slate
roofs go on for decades losing the occasional slate. When to reroof is
purely an economic decision


NT

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:44:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Stops the slates lifting in the gales. That's the primary function.

Tell that to the slates on the barn roof in a gale, they rattle away
nicely and there is sarking under them. Remember we get real gales several
times a year up here and the occasional storm, not just a strong breeze
that most urbanites experience. When there is a gale or stronger blowing
one has to be careful not to step out from the shelter of the house or you
get knocked off your feet...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:44:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Stops the slates lifting in the gales. That's the primary function.

Tell that to the slates on the barn roof in a gale, they rattle away
nicely and there is sarking under them. Remember we get real gales several
times a year up here and the occasional storm, not just a strong breeze
that most urbanites experience. When there is a gale or stronger blowing
one has to be careful not to step out from the shelter of the house or you
get knocked off your feet...

Rattling away is not the same as being ripped off and landing 50 yards
away..its the massive pressure drop you get in the downwind side of a
roof that creates a huge suction on the slates..the sarking to an extent
bows out and prevents that from becoming a minor explosion.

[The Natural Philosopher]

wrote:
On Jul 28, 11:10 pm, "George \(dicegeorge\)"
wrote:
I too have an old house with slates, some leaks,
but mostly patched with tape a few years ago.

i've been following discussions on this group for almost a year, learning
lots...

It has been shown to me that the nails in my roof are rusty,
so patching the slipped slates is only temporary,
they've all got to come off and go on again.

i'm too unskilled and clumsy and scared of falling (again) to do it myself,
i will however do insulation, ceilings etc,
and am clearing away the old lathe and plaster and dirt and ancient unused
pipes and wires
to make it easier for them.

sarking/ felt of a modern kind is recommended.

some recommend the scottish method of putting boards on the rafters,
then battens, then slates,
but i think this probably an unnecessary expense for herefordshire-
i have a lot of roof to get done.

Maybe boarding is a good idea for london where insulated roofspace is
valuable

some say the nails should be aluminium, not copper.

the spray-on foam people guarantee their job for 25 years,
but will their company exist in 25 years time?
and anyhow this building should last hundreds of years,

i dont need the roofspace so i'm going to have a cold ventilated roof space,
with insulation above the ceilings.

So I'll be able to walk around in the roof and look for leaks
(but not sure about this -
with no felt now i can see light through the gaps where slates have slipped,
and wet patches underneath them,
but with felt any dampness will flow down the felt
and be invisible to me,
hope this doesnt mean the timbers will rot...
)

and im gonna have a few skylights put in,
perhaps facing north so not too much burning sun,
but how to insulate them i dont yet know...

[george]


I assume then you know that slate loss isnt a reason to reroof. Slate
roofs go on for decades losing the occasional slate. When to reroof is
purely an economic decision


Or when the timbers have rotted due to using spray on foam ;-)


NT