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increasing hot water pressure to kitchen taps



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 2nd 08, 09:08 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 110
Default increasing hot water pressure to kitchen taps

Hi guys,
I have a gravity fed hot water system from a normal hot tank ch in the
upstairs bedroom (a long way away from the kitchen tap)
and the hot water takes ages to run, what's more is there is not enough
pressure to let the new spray tap work properly. Cold water is not a
problem.

can I fit a small pump to increase the hot water pressure?

If so where should I put it? I have two sinks one in the utility room
(ie the old kitchen) and one in my lovely new kitchen in the extension.

The hot water stop valve turns all hot water to taps off, so if I put it
near there it would increase the pressure all round.

Are there any items I should be wary of with the increase in pressure
ie hot feed to washing machine, hot tank bulging? CH hot water system
becoming upset?

what pump could I actually use?

thoughts and advice please,


(or could I get a spray tap which works better with low pressure hot water?)

thanks in advance
dedics
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  #2  
Old June 2nd 08, 09:32 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,066
Default increasing hot water pressure to kitchen taps

"Ian & Hilda Dedic" wrote in message
...
Hi guys,
I have a gravity fed hot water system from a normal hot tank ch in the
upstairs bedroom (a long way away from the kitchen tap)
and the hot water takes ages to run, what's more is there is not enough
pressure to let the new spray tap work properly. Cold water is not a
problem.

can I fit a small pump to increase the hot water pressure?

If so where should I put it? I have two sinks one in the utility room (ie
the old kitchen) and one in my lovely new kitchen in the extension.

The hot water stop valve turns all hot water to taps off, so if I put it
near there it would increase the pressure all round.

Are there any items I should be wary of with the increase in pressure
ie hot feed to washing machine, hot tank bulging? CH hot water system
becoming upset?


The pump would be between the tank and the taps, most likely near the valve
you mention. It won't cause problems behind it and will only come on when
water is called for. It will be fiddly to fit and a potential surce of leaks
and breakdown and will be noisy. OTOH you'll get pressure!

A good make and something which would (probably) be quieter than the usual
shower pumps might be:

http://www.inspiredheating.co.uk/aca...E_BOOSTER.html

The fact that the "new spray" tap doesn't work indicates to me it is a
pressure problem in taps designed for high pressure operation, rather than a
flow problem. Were it just a flow problem and were all the piping done in
15mm, you might improve things by going to 22mm - if you do that, remember
that the volume goes with the square of the radius (or diameter) of the pipe
but the flow rate goes with some power less than this. This means you get
more flow but it takes longer to run hot.

HTH


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)



what pump could I actually use?

thoughts and advice please,


(or could I get a spray tap which works better with low pressure hot
water?)

thanks in advance
dedics



  #3  
Old June 2nd 08, 09:37 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,066
Default increasing hot water pressure to kitchen taps

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Ian & Hilda Dedic" wrote in message
...
Hi guys,
I have a gravity fed hot water system from a normal hot tank ch in the
upstairs bedroom (a long way away from the kitchen tap)
and the hot water takes ages to run, what's more is there is not enough
pressure to let the new spray tap work properly. Cold water is not a
problem.

can I fit a small pump to increase the hot water pressure?

If so where should I put it? I have two sinks one in the utility room (ie
the old kitchen) and one in my lovely new kitchen in the extension.

The hot water stop valve turns all hot water to taps off, so if I put it
near there it would increase the pressure all round.

Are there any items I should be wary of with the increase in pressure
ie hot feed to washing machine, hot tank bulging? CH hot water system
becoming upset?


The pump would be between the tank and the taps, most likely near the
valve you mention. It won't cause problems behind it and will only come on
when water is called for. It will be fiddly to fit and a potential surce
of leaks and breakdown and will be noisy. OTOH you'll get pressure!

A good make and something which would (probably) be quieter than the usual
shower pumps might be:

http://www.inspiredheating.co.uk/aca...E_BOOSTER.html


Please note - although this looks like a central heating pump (and, in fact,
is one with some bits added) it is very likely that it MUST be mounted as
the picture shows, or the flow sensor won't work (actual central heating
pumps can be mounted anyway round, as long as the motor shaft is
horizontal). This may make a difference to the ease of fitting!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)


  #4  
Old June 2nd 08, 11:08 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,490
Default increasing hot water pressure to kitchen taps

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ian & Hilda Dedic wrote:

Hi guys,
I have a gravity fed hot water system from a normal hot tank ch in the
upstairs bedroom (a long way away from the kitchen tap)
and the hot water takes ages to run, what's more is there is not
enough pressure to let the new spray tap work properly. Cold water is
not a problem.

I assume that the cold comes straight off the mains, and so is at mains
pressure.

can I fit a small pump to increase the hot water pressure?

Yes.

If so where should I put it? I have two sinks one in the utility room
(ie the old kitchen) and one in my lovely new kitchen in the
extension.
The hot water stop valve turns all hot water to taps off, so if I put
it near there it would increase the pressure all round.

It depends where the stop valve is! If it's between the cold header tank and
the hot cylinder (as is often the case) *don't* put it there 'cos it will
pressurise the hot cylinder, which is *very* bad.

Are there any items I should be wary of with the increase in pressure
ie hot feed to washing machine, hot tank bulging? CH hot water system
becoming upset?

Put it close to the hot cylinder's hot *output* - then it won't pressurise
the cylinder but will boost *all* hot taps. It won't upset the primary
circuit used by the CH and by the coil inside the HW cylinder. It shouldn't
upset the washing machine - but you may have swap a low-pressure inlet
nozzle with a high pressure one. Read the washing machine manual!

what pump could I actually use?

You need a pump designed for this purpose - with a built-in flow-switch so
as to turn on as soon as you open a tap. It probably needs bronze internals
since it is dealing with constantly changing oxygenated water - unlike a
central heating pump which is simply circulating the *same* water (hopefully
containing corrosion inhibitor) all the time.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!


  #5  
Old June 2nd 08, 11:43 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 110
Default increasing hot water pressure to kitchen taps

Bob Mannix wrote:

The pump would be between the tank and the taps, most likely near the
valve you mention. It won't cause problems behind it and will only come on
when water is called for. It will be fiddly to fit and a potential surce
of leaks and breakdown and will be noisy. OTOH you'll get pressure!

A good make and something which would (probably) be quieter than the usual
shower pumps might be:

http://www.inspiredheating.co.uk/aca...E_BOOSTER.html


Please note - although this looks like a central heating pump (and, in fact,
is one with some bits added) it is very likely that it MUST be mounted as
the picture shows, or the flow sensor won't work (actual central heating
pumps can be mounted anyway round, as long as the motor shaft is
horizontal). This may make a difference to the ease of fitting!



ok thanks for that, so it's the same size and shape as CH pump, I'll
have to see if I can actually find space to fit one.

I was hoping there would be a smaller sized solution more the size of a
washing machine pump.

dedics
  #6  
Old June 2nd 08, 12:22 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,066
Default increasing hot water pressure to kitchen taps

"Ian & Hilda Dedic" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote:

The pump would be between the tank and the taps, most likely near the
valve you mention. It won't cause problems behind it and will only come
on when water is called for. It will be fiddly to fit and a potential
surce of leaks and breakdown and will be noisy. OTOH you'll get
pressure!

A good make and something which would (probably) be quieter than the
usual shower pumps might be:

http://www.inspiredheating.co.uk/aca...E_BOOSTER.html


Please note - although this looks like a central heating pump (and, in
fact, is one with some bits added) it is very likely that it MUST be
mounted as the picture shows, or the flow sensor won't work (actual
central heating pumps can be mounted anyway round, as long as the motor
shaft is horizontal). This may make a difference to the ease of fitting!



ok thanks for that, so it's the same size and shape as CH pump, I'll have
to see if I can actually find space to fit one.


That was one example, there may be other shapes but not many smaller IMHO.
Clealry this one is made by a central heating pump manufacturer so they have
modified what they have. It won't give a huge pressure but probably good
enough but should be quieter!


I was hoping there would be a smaller sized solution more the size of a
washing machine pump.


Well you might get a small one but it's unlikely to last as long. Your
choice!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not


  #7  
Old June 2nd 08, 12:59 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,441
Default increasing hot water pressure to kitchen taps

Ian & Hilda Dedic wrote:

ok thanks for that, so it's the same size and shape as CH pump, I'll
have to see if I can actually find space to fit one.

I was hoping there would be a smaller sized solution more the size of a
washing machine pump.

Basic physics is your foe here Ian, a washing machine pump really
doesn't develop much head, and it would probably end in tears if
you gave one such a task.

Compared with the expensive engineering from Monsoon, which purrs
quietly in my garage to supply bath and shower, this Grundfos is
tiny and cheap.

Does your tap have a pull-out spray, or simply a spray nozzle? I
guess even if you can find a new tap, it could easily cost more
than the suggested pump.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.
  #8  
Old June 2nd 08, 04:36 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 110
Default increasing hot water pressure to kitchen taps

Chris J Dixon wrote:
Ian & Hilda Dedic wrote:

ok thanks for that, so it's the same size and shape as CH pump, I'll
have to see if I can actually find space to fit one.

I was hoping there would be a smaller sized solution more the size of a
washing machine pump.

Basic physics is your foe here Ian, a washing machine pump really
doesn't develop much head, and it would probably end in tears if
you gave one such a task.

Compared with the expensive engineering from Monsoon, which purrs
quietly in my garage to supply bath and shower, this Grundfos is
tiny and cheap.

Does your tap have a pull-out spray, or simply a spray nozzle? I
guess even if you can find a new tap, it could easily cost more
than the suggested pump.

Chris

it is a new tap, that seems to be the problem....

it's a franke pull out spray jobby....

we only really need a bit of a boost in hot pressure to this one tap,
the other mixers in the house seem fine so I wonder if looking at the
inner workings might be a possible way to go.

tap experts anyone?

(Definition of an expert:-)

an unknown quantity under a lot of pressure!)
dedics
  #9  
Old June 2nd 08, 06:32 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default increasing hot water pressure to kitchen taps

Ian & Hilda Dedic wrote:

it is a new tap, that seems to be the problem....

it's a franke pull out spray jobby....

we only really need a bit of a boost in hot pressure to this one tap,
the other mixers in the house seem fine so I wonder if looking at the
inner workings might be a possible way to go.

tap experts anyone?


I had the same problem, after buying an Ikea pull out spray type, which is
probably the most unsuitable tap possible for a low pressure hot water system!
I bought the Grundfos home booster pump, and while not perfect, it was a
better solution than buying a new tap as I had already fitted it to the sink!

Without the pump fitted, although the hot would run (very slowly), any amount
of mixing with the cold forced cold water backup the hot pipe and back into
the hot water cylinder. This is because of the pullout spray nozzle meaning
the mixing is done within the tap body rather than having separate hot and
cold channels exiting at the end of the tap.
So, in addition to the pump I fitted a single check valve to the hot pipe
under the sink. This was not without problems though, as this restricted the
flow too much so the pump did not trigger automatically! I removed the return
spring from the valve, and all is well.

The pump is totally silent in use, the only problem is that when you want to
run the hot, or mix with cold, it works best if you switch on the hot to full
until the pump comes on, then close down the flow and/or mix as necessary.
Luckily when I fitted the kitchen I installed mains sockets in the back of
every cupboard just for this type of eventuality, and so I installed the pump
in the cupboard under the sink.

Cheers,
Ben
 




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