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#1
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q.
I'm fitting another this week for someone. Delivery arrived yesterday of the 15 items for the bathroom. Direct from a central warehouse, not the local store they told me. First impressions were bad, everything is wrapped in cardboard, with almost all of it sodden. "Is your van leaking then?" I asked. "No, the warehouse is full so this was left outside last night. Charming. They then dropped off everything in the driveway, and kept saying they were late and needed to get somewhere else. "Do you want to check it all before we go, but you'd better be quick, as we are late, and anyway, if anything is broken, you just ring up for a new one" The bit about ringing up for a new one was said at least 3 times, and he even put a ring around the phone number on the delivery note. Half an hour later, I knew why - one of the shower screens was in a 1000 pieces. the buggers knew it was broken. So rang up, OK, we'll get a new one out to you next week. "Well, how about tomorrow, so I can fit it?" Sorry, too busy, next week is the earliest. Then proceeded to check everything else. Luckily, I noticed a pop-up plug was missing. So rang them again. OK, next week with the shower screen. Everything else looked to be in one piece, though the toilet pan was filthy. Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldnt trust their delivery staff at all. Alan. -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. |
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#2
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
"A.Lee" wrote in message ... I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q. I'm fitting another this week for someone. Delivery arrived yesterday of the 15 items for the bathroom. Direct from a central warehouse, not the local store they told me. First impressions were bad, everything is wrapped in cardboard, with almost all of it sodden. "Is your van leaking then?" I asked. "No, the warehouse is full so this was left outside last night. Charming. They then dropped off everything in the driveway, and kept saying they were late and needed to get somewhere else. "Do you want to check it all before we go, but you'd better be quick, as we are late, and anyway, if anything is broken, you just ring up for a new one" The bit about ringing up for a new one was said at least 3 times, and he even put a ring around the phone number on the delivery note. Half an hour later, I knew why - one of the shower screens was in a 1000 pieces. the buggers knew it was broken. So rang up, OK, we'll get a new one out to you next week. "Well, how about tomorrow, so I can fit it?" Sorry, too busy, next week is the earliest. Then proceeded to check everything else. Luckily, I noticed a pop-up plug was missing. So rang them again. OK, next week with the shower screen. Everything else looked to be in one piece, though the toilet pan was filthy. Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldnt trust their delivery staff at all. Alan. Remind me never to have a (broken) bath fitted by you. ;-) |
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#3
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q.
I'm fitting another this week for someone. Delivery arrived yesterday of the 15 items for the bathroom. We recently had a new bathroom delivered by Plumbworld, and the *worst* I can say about them was that we were _very_ pleased with the level of service and quality of the goods. There was a small problem with the basin - it had a small hole in a visible part of the enamel (air bubble?) but a single email resulted in them saying they were sending a replacement, and to dispose of the original however we saw fit. Having looked around the likes of Focus / B&Q since, we still can't help laughing at the prices they're charging for a basic bathroom suite - we got an 8 jet whirlpool and back to wall basin / toilet combo (with wall units) for about £1k (currently £368 for the bath and £650 for the basin / bog combo) http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/park-lan...0-x-2076-16727 http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/kompakt-...sin-2145-17628 My ol' man put them in (I suck at DIY) - he does them regularly as he's a bit of a scouse Medway Handyman. Even he was impressed by the quality compared to the stuff he usually has to deal with - which often cost the buyer considerably more. While i'm at it, can I add that I was similarly impressed with Screwfix over something that seemingly went out of stock as soon as i'd ordered it (a thermostatic shower). They were on the phone to let me know within 30 minutes, then proceded to try to check the next expected stock delivery dates for me (which turned out to be unsuitable for me). |
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#4
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
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#5
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
A.Lee wrote:
I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q. I'm fitting another this week for someone. Delivery arrived yesterday of the 15 items for the bathroom. Direct from a central warehouse, not the local store they told me. First impressions were bad, everything is wrapped in cardboard, with almost all of it sodden. "Is your van leaking then?" I asked. "No, the warehouse is full so this was left outside last night. Charming. They then dropped off everything in the driveway, and kept saying they were late and needed to get somewhere else. "Do you want to check it all before we go, but you'd better be quick, as we are late, and anyway, if anything is broken, you just ring up for a new one" The bit about ringing up for a new one was said at least 3 times, and he even put a ring around the phone number on the delivery note. Half an hour later, I knew why - one of the shower screens was in a 1000 pieces. the buggers knew it was broken. So rang up, OK, we'll get a new one out to you next week. "Well, how about tomorrow, so I can fit it?" Sorry, too busy, next week is the earliest. Then proceeded to check everything else. Luckily, I noticed a pop-up plug was missing. So rang them again. OK, next week with the shower screen. Everything else looked to be in one piece, though the toilet pan was filthy. All correct procedures up to now! And then you spoil it!! Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. So why didn't you report those faults? Now, what if another, more obvious fault develops in the bath (or your 'repair' fails and the bath ultimately leaks), just how are you going to manage to convince B&Q to replace it after your bodge-up - or explain what you did to your client - presuming of course that you are warranting the job and will attend any complaint of defective workmanship? If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q But surely that doesn't exonerate you from a 'duty of care' to your client? More to the point, you have driven home the fact that you are prepared to 'con' your client by knowingly fitting a defective unit and then hiding that fact - and have the nerve to charge for the job. unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldnt trust their delivery staff at all. Well, you are not exactly trustworthy are you? As a matter of interest, in this litigious age, I wonder how the client could sue you for if the bath suddenly breaks because of the known (by you and you alone) faults and causes serious injury, personal injury or damage to the property? Mmmm 'veeeeery' interesting! I hope this particular customer isn't into reading this group and suddenly puts two and to together. LOL Tanner-'op All insults will be ignored. |
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#6
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
On 28/05/2008 21:01 A.Lee wrote:
Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Isn't it likely to develop as the bath flexes in use? -- F |
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#7
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
In article 483dd023@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote: - Using B&Q as a supplier of products for professional use - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. I don't think I'd be happy with a plumber dictating what I had to fit. Avocado is so '70s. But I'm sure you can get good quality ones cheap. Allowing plumbers to recommend something you don't see - like a boiler - doesn't seem too successful either. -- *Virtual reality is its own reward * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#9
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:483dd023@qaanaaq... On 2008-05-28 21:01:12 +0100, (A.Lee) said: I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q. I'm fitting another this week for someone. Delivery arrived yesterday of the 15 items for the bathroom. Direct from a central warehouse, not the local store they told me. First impressions were bad, everything is wrapped in cardboard, with almost all of it sodden. "Is your van leaking then?" I asked. "No, the warehouse is full so this was left outside last night. Charming. They then dropped off everything in the driveway, and kept saying they were late and needed to get somewhere else. "Do you want to check it all before we go, but you'd better be quick, as we are late, and anyway, if anything is broken, you just ring up for a new one" The bit about ringing up for a new one was said at least 3 times, and he even put a ring around the phone number on the delivery note. Half an hour later, I knew why - one of the shower screens was in a 1000 pieces. the buggers knew it was broken. So rang up, OK, we'll get a new one out to you next week. "Well, how about tomorrow, so I can fit it?" Sorry, too busy, next week is the earliest. Then proceeded to check everything else. Luckily, I noticed a pop-up plug was missing. So rang them again. OK, next week with the shower screen. Everything else looked to be in one piece, though the toilet pan was filthy. Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldnt trust their delivery staff at all. Alan. There are two problems he - Using B&Q as a supplier of products for professional use - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. Their operation is like the proverbial curate's egg - good in parts. They can manage to exchange goods and even compensate customers, as they should. That's a simple logistics process. They can't manage anything involving more than simple logistics and don't have an appropriate customer service ethic - i.e. if you screw up, you apologise and fix the issue *now*, not next week. They believe that price can subsitute for poor customer service. Unfortunately, a significant proportion of customers are not sufficiently bright or assertive and they can get away with it. Bathstore dot con had me for 36 quid delivery charge, and then I had to help the wheezing old codger on the wagon, to get the stuff off ! He had no answer when I asked him whose responsbility it would be if I hurt my back, or if I dropped my end of the (heavy) bath, and damaged it. Today, I had some kitchen units and a 3m work surface delivered from Wickes. They arrived on the bed of an open backed truck, in amongst the bags of sand and the fence panels. They had a tarp slung roughly across them, against the ****ing down rain that we were having. The first item off was wrong. It was a stainless steel sink unit that should have been a black one. We went over it at least four times with the moron in the shop, but still when I looked at the sales note a bit closer after the delivery, it was the stainless one that had been booked to the invoice. There was a lot of tooth sucking from the delivery driver, who helpfully told me that the black ones were "pretty rare mate. You'll have to phone to see if they've even got one ..." Many phone calls later, with un-kept promises to call me back, the missus got home from work, and took over. In one call, she had them ringing round the other branches until they found one, which they got to the store tonight. They then rang me to say they are going to deliver it tomorrow. So they came good in the end, after coming off worst from an encounter with my other half, but isn't it so frustrating that this sort of thing is now the norm rather than the exception ? Arfa |
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#10
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
Tanner-'op wrote: SNIP All correct procedures up to now! And then you spoil it!! Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. So why didn't you report those faults? Because B&Q would take a week to sort it out, leaving Alan with no work for several days (and therefore no wages) and the customer with no bath. Now, what if another, more obvious fault develops in the bath (or your 'repair' fails and the bath ultimately leaks), just how are you going to manage to convince B&Q to replace it after your bodge-up - or explain what you did to your client - presuming of course that you are warranting the job and will attend any complaint of defective workmanship? I don't know Alan apart from his posts here, but he seems like an honest man. I'm sure he would not have installed the bath if he thought there would be a future problem. If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q But surely that doesn't exonerate you from a 'duty of care' to your client? More to the point, you have driven home the fact that you are prepared to 'con' your client by knowingly fitting a defective unit and then hiding that fact - and have the nerve to charge for the job. You seem to have a problem with the self employed tradesman - where you bitten by one as a child? A reality check. The villain of the piece here is B&Q plain & simple, aided and abetted by the client buying cheap. Alan is the poor ******* stuck in the middle. Lets assume that Alan allowed 3 days to do the job. He finds on day 1 that the bath has a minor fault, B&Q can't sort it for a week. No fault of Albans, but he now has 2 days with no wages. The client isn't going to want to pay him, B&Q sure as hell won't pay him (although they should). So he has lost two days money. He now has to re schedule whatever jobs he has on for next week in order to return & fit the bath. The customers won't like that & may cancel. Alan loses more money through no fault of his. unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldn't trust their delivery staff at all. Well, you are not exactly trustworthy are you? How do you know that? He may well have discussed the problem with the customer & gained his/her agreement. So, tell me how you would react in this situation; You employ Alan to install a bathroom you have purchased & the bath is faulty, so Alan can't install it. Alan would be quite justified in presenting you with a bill for the 3 days he has allocated for your job since he is probably unable to mitigate his loss. Are you prepared to pay him & reclaim the money from B&Q? All insults will be ignored. I'm starting to be able to spot potential arseholes like you and simply turn down the work. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
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#11
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
Tanner-'op wrote:
- Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. "Allowing the customers..." that's a bit of arrogance there on your part! Surely the 'pipers calls the tune' and they can choose to buy from wherever they wish - as can the so called professional choose who he works for? There is a fundamental difficulty here when the customer buys the raw materials and the fitting service from two (or more) different places. Who carries the can when something is not right? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#12
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
Tanner-'op wrote:
Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. So why didn't you report those faults? Now, what if another, more obvious fault develops in the bath (or your 'repair' fails and the bath ultimately leaks), just how are you going to manage to convince B&Q to replace it after your bodge-up - or explain what you did to your client - presuming of course that you are warranting the job and will attend any complaint of defective workmanship? Obviously not seeing the fault or the repair it unreasonable to comment in detail. However is does raise another point regarding customers sourcing parts from external suppliers: I wonder how the customer would have reacted when billed for an extra days labour incurred rectifying problems caused B&Q? If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q But surely that doesn't exonerate you from a 'duty of care' to your client? More to the point, you have driven home the fact that you are prepared to 'con' your client by knowingly fitting a defective unit and then hiding that fact - and have the nerve to charge for the job. An alternative view was that he was saving the customer additional cost and delay by making good a minor defect... unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldnt trust their delivery staff at all. Well, you are not exactly trustworthy are you? More milk tibbles? As a matter of interest, in this litigious age, I wonder how the client could sue you for if the bath suddenly breaks because of the known (by you and you alone) faults and causes serious injury, personal injury or damage to the property? Mmmm 'veeeeery' interesting! As with all things, it is a judgement call. If the broken bit is structural and failure could result in injury, or it was obvious the repair would always be inferior, then it would be daft to fix it. If on the other hand it is just decorative and can be repaired to be as good as (or in fact better than) new, what is the problem? I hope this particular customer isn't into reading this group and suddenly puts two and to together. LOL Perhaps he said to the customer - "look this was damaged, but I have fixed it like that". All insults will be ignored. By whom? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#13
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
On 2008-05-28 23:54:02 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said: In article 483dd023@qaanaaq, Andy Hall wrote: - Using B&Q as a supplier of products for professional use - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. I don't think I'd be happy with a plumber dictating what I had to fit. Avocado is so '70s. But I'm sure you can get good quality ones cheap. Allowing plumbers to recommend something you don't see - like a boiler - doesn't seem too successful either. I agree. The customer should do their due diligence and select what they want. There are far better ranges than those from B&Q and certainly far better suppliers. |
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#14
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
On 2008-05-29 00:32:34 +0100, "Tanner-'op" said:
Andy Hall wrote: On 2008-05-28 21:01:12 +0100, (A.Lee) said: There are two problems he - Using B&Q as a supplier of products for professional use Many do - including some that post here and they are usually a 'sole trader' - they find it easier - or haven't quite grasped the fact that they can usually haggle a discount with a builders merchant yet charge the customer at full cost plus a percentage for collection. Missed business opportunity.... - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. "Allowing the customers..." that's a bit of arrogance there on your part! Surely the 'pipers calls the tune' and they can choose to buy from wherever they wish - as can the so called professional choose who he works for? One can make that argument. However, it is outcome that ultimately matters. Agreements where supply of materials and labour are different deals are wide open to problems. For example, faulty goods, goods that break during fitting, late deliveries, wrong items and so on. On larger and more expensive projects it can be worth giving the installer the margin for managing the whole project and taking responsibility for outcome. Their operation is like the proverbial curate's egg - good in parts. A bit like some of the major builders/plumbers merchants that I have dealt with over the years - the last one being the Plumb Center very recently. They can manage to exchange goods and even compensate customers, as they should. That's a simple logistics process. Unlike some trademen. They can't manage anything involving more than simple logistics and don't have an appropriate customer service ethic - i.e. if you screw up, you apologise and fix the issue *now*, not next week. At least you can generally contact them - unlike some 'professional' tradesmen who 'cock the job' up and then refuse to honour their contractual obligations to correct defective work *or* even answer their telephones. They believe that price can subsitute for poor customer service. Unfortunately, a significant proportion of customers are not sufficiently bright or assertive and they can get away with it. Again you are a little arrogant regarding 'customers' - a rather typical trait for some tradesmen. I'm not a tradesman, but I do think that outcome and ownership are important. Having clearly defined agreeements is a good way for business to be done. Tanner-'op Not a sycophant of B&Q by the way - but there again, I never deal with them for major purchases. B&Q are good for what they do - volume distribution of low to medium ticket items for he retail customer. Large purchases and projects, no.. |
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#15
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
On 2008-05-29 00:43:04 +0100, "Arfa Daily" said:
Bathstore dot con had me for 36 quid delivery charge, and then I had to help the wheezing old codger on the wagon, to get the stuff off ! He had no answer when I asked him whose responsbility it would be if I hurt my back, or if I dropped my end of the (heavy) bath, and damaged it. I'd have refused delivery,. Today, I had some kitchen units and a 3m work surface delivered from Wickes. They arrived on the bed of an open backed truck, in amongst the bags of sand and the fence panels. They had a tarp slung roughly across them, against the ****ing down rain that we were having. The first item off was wrong. It was a stainless steel sink unit that should have been a black one. We went over it at least four times with the moron in the shop, but still when I looked at the sales note a bit closer after the delivery, it was the stainless one that had been booked to the invoice. There was a lot of tooth sucking from the delivery driver, who helpfully told me that the black ones were "pretty rare mate. You'll have to phone to see if they've even got one ..." Many phone calls later, with un-kept promises to call me back, the missus got home from work, and took over. In one call, she had them ringing round the other branches until they found one, which they got to the store tonight. They then rang me to say they are going to deliver it tomorrow. So they came good in the end, after coming off worst from an encounter with my other half, but isn't it so frustrating that this sort of thing is now the norm rather than the exception ? Arfa The problem is that too many people are letting the suppliers get away with this sloppy nonsense. It's perfectly straightforward to have the correct goods available at the correct time and to deliver them appropriately. Then when mistakes happen, the supplier should b going out of their way to fix the problem without being asked. The important point is to keep them on a short leash as your wife did and not to accept excuses that they will call back and all the rest of it. I've found that the most effective method is to monopolise their time until they fix the problem. Otherwise they just go off and oil the wheel that is squeaking more. Customer service and assertiveness training should be on the national curriculum. |
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#16
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
"Tanner-'op" wrote:
A.Lee wrote: I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q. All correct procedures up to now! And then you spoil it!! Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. So why didn't you report those faults? No point in reporting them as the fault was minor and easily rectified by a bit of glue, but I pointed it out here,as it should not have been there when delivered. I showed the customer the fault, and he agreed that it wasnt worth waiting over a week to replace the bath when it was in a corner that could not be seen, - it had the wooden support moulded around it, so it could not get any bigger - it was an impact crack on an edge, not something that will get worse. Alan. -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. |
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#17
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 28/05/2008 21:01 A.Lee wrote: Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Isn't it likely to develop as the bath flexes in use? No. It was an impact crack, clearly pushed in a few mm, it also had the wooden piecec moulded along that edge, so will not get any worse. Alan. -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. |
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#18
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote: unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldn't trust their delivery staff at all. Well, you are not exactly trustworthy are you? I'm very trustworthy. Everything I do is guaranteed, if someone doesnt like anything I do, I fix it. How do you know that? He may well have discussed the problem with the customer & gained his/her agreement. Yes, I did tell the customer, and he agreed that it wasnt worth the hassle of returning it. As it happens, I'm not going to be losing anything, as I'll be at this house for 3 weeks or so as there is so much to do, though if I was only there to fit the bath suite, theen I certainly wouldnt have been too happy at all - as you know, re-arranging customers and keeping them all happy is pretty impossible. Thanks Alan. -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. |
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#19
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
John Rumm wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote: - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. "Allowing the customers..." that's a bit of arrogance there on your part! Surely the 'pipers calls the tune' and they can choose to buy from wherever they wish - as can the so called professional choose who he works for? There is a fundamental difficulty here when the customer buys the raw materials and the fitting service from two (or more) different places. Who carries the can when something is not right? I've done 3 bathrooms in the last 2 months, and all the main parts were supplied by B+Q, and chosen/bought by the customer. I have given guarantees on all the work I have done, but have made it clear that any subsequent fault with the fittings would not be covered by my warranty, though if there is a fault (unlikely, as once they are in, they are very reliable), then I'd probably just do it free of charge anyway. The B+Q baths are rubbish. They flex a lot, are so thin that the sun can be seen through them, and the fittings kit is minimal(if the supplied fittings kit is used, I cannot see how the bath would stay in position). Alan. -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. |
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#20
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
"A.Lee" wrote in message .. . No point in reporting them as the fault was minor and easily rectified by a bit of glue, Normally if there is a crack in something like a plastic bath you drill a hole at the end of the crack to relieve the stresses. If you don't there is a risk it will carry on splitting. I know I had to do so after I broke our bath as it just kept going until I did. Then it was a three week wait for the insurance to authorise the repair, they didn't seem to like the idea I had fallen on it while changing the bulb. |
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#21
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
In article 483e3f9d@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote: On 2008-05-28 23:54:02 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" said: In article 483dd023@qaanaaq, Andy Hall wrote: - Using B&Q as a supplier of products for professional use - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. I don't think I'd be happy with a plumber dictating what I had to fit. Avocado is so '70s. But I'm sure you can get good quality ones cheap. Allowing plumbers to recommend something you don't see - like a boiler - doesn't seem too successful either. I agree. The customer should do their due diligence and select what they want. There are far better ranges than those from B&Q and certainly far better suppliers. Some B&Q stuff is OK. I doubt that includes the cheap packages, though. And if you want to see the suite in the flesh before buying, it might be the only place you can do this in some areas. -- *Stable Relationships Are For Horses. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#22
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote: SNIP All correct procedures up to now! And then you spoil it!! Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. So why didn't you report those faults? Because B&Q would take a week to sort it out, leaving Alan with no work for several days (and therefore no wages) and the customer with no bath. He had to wait a wait for the other damaged stuff so that was no excuse. Besides, if he knew the new bath was damaged, why pull the old one? Knowing that there were damaged components - why didn't he check the bath at the same time? Now, what if another, more obvious fault develops in the bath (or your 'repair' fails and the bath ultimately leaks), just how are you going to manage to convince B&Q to replace it after your bodge-up - or explain what you did to your client - presuming of course that you are warranting the job and will attend any complaint of defective workmanship? I don't know Alan apart from his posts here, but he seems like an honest man. I'm sure he would not have installed the bath if he thought there would be a future problem. He installed a damaged bath - and from the tone of the OP - without the clients knowledge. So draw your own conclusions. If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q But surely that doesn't exonerate you from a 'duty of care' to your client? More to the point, you have driven home the fact that you are prepared to 'con' your client by knowingly fitting a defective unit and then hiding that fact - and have the nerve to charge for the job. You seem to have a problem with the self employed tradesman - where you bitten by one as a child? As an apprenticed trademan of some 40 years experience, many of those dealing with the self employed, gerally no - but with some *YES*. There are 'trademen' and there a pseudo-tradesmen. By the way, if you are getting a little personal, what are *your* formal qualifications that allow you to be let loose as a 'handyman' (you know, the ones that you studied for) - or is handyman the limit of your knowledge? If it is, then I would suspect the quality of some of the work that you do. A reality check. What reality check? The villain of the piece here is B&Q plain & simple, aided and abetted by the client buying cheap. Alan is the poor ******* stuck in the middle. Partly correct about B&Q - but that was exacerbated by the events after delivery. Are you of the opinion that *you* can *force* the client to buy *dear*, knowing full well that *dear* is not always the best quality but a 'rip-off'? A bit patronising that from a mere handyman. Initially Allan was the one point of common sense in this - he started off using it, and then for some reason lost it. Lets assume that Alan allowed 3 days to do the job. He finds on day 1 that the bath has a minor fault, B&Q can't sort it for a week. Would you call a *new* bath that needs a silicone filler to repair a crack a minor fault? Shows your experience doesn't it? No fault of Albans, but he now has 2 days with no wages. The client isn't going to want to pay him, B&Q sure as hell won't pay him (although they should). So he has lost two days money. Not an excuse for fitting damaged good I'm afraid. He now has to re schedule whatever jobs he has on for next week in order to return & fit the bath. The customers won't like that & may cancel. Alan loses more money through no fault of his. In this situation, if the customer was made aware of the problem then I doubt if they would have cancelled - after all, the original problem wasn't the fault of Allan's. unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldn't trust their delivery staff at all. Well, you are not exactly trustworthy are you? How do you know that? He may well have discussed the problem with the customer & gained his/her agreement. Not the OP - the implication was that he "hid" the damage. So, tell me how you would react in this situation; You employ Alan to install a bathroom you have purchased & the bath is faulty, so Alan can't install it. Alan would be quite justified in presenting you with a bill for the 3 days he has allocated for your job since he is probably unable to mitigate his loss. Are you prepared to pay him & reclaim the money from B&Q? The question is rhetorical - he had to wait a week for replacements for damaged parts didn't he? And knowing very well how plumbers price, (presuming he is a plumber) then all that would have happened here is a little less profit margin. ;-) All insults will be ignored. But I had to respond to this idiot. I'm starting to be able to spot potential arseholes like you and simply turn down the work. That's the problem Dave, I know how to deal with tradesmen (and I wouldn't let a franchised handyman like you loose on repairing a rabbit hutch with a defective barrel-bolt let alone some of the work that you allegedly do) - especially with some of the comments/questions you pose in the group - you lack a great deal of experience. As a matter of interest. I learnt way back in the sixties, during a long and hard apprenticeship how to spot the "aresole" of a builder (and so-called handymen like you). One of the signs is asking for a high deposit before you start the job so that he can buy the materials - a nasty sign that. Tanner-'op |
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#23
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
John Rumm wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote: - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. "Allowing the customers..." that's a bit of arrogance there on your part! Surely the 'pipers calls the tune' and they can choose to buy from wherever they wish - as can the so called professional choose who he works for? There is a fundamental difficulty here when the customer buys the raw materials and the fitting service from two (or more) different places. Who carries the can when something is not right? John, Now that I agree with that, and have seen the outcome of such situations and without doubt, it is then up to the customer to resolve the problem[s] *or* *pay* the contractor whatever rate he asks, to do so on their behalf, but to say about "allowing customers" I though was rather patronising. After all, the tradesman is not obliged to fit such stuff - unless under contract to B&Q etc to do so. Tanner-'op |
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#24
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
A.Lee wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote: Tanner-'op wrote: unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldn't trust their delivery staff at all. Well, you are not exactly trustworthy are you? I'm very trustworthy. Everything I do is guaranteed, if someone doesnt like anything I do, I fix it. Fair enough! How do you know that? He may well have discussed the problem with the customer & gained his/her agreement. Yes, I did tell the customer, and he agreed that it wasnt worth the hassle of returning it. So why didn't you say that in your OP rather than imply otherwise? As it happens, I'm not going to be losing anything, as I'll be at this house for 3 weeks or so as there is so much to do, though if I was only there to fit the bath suite, theen I certainly wouldnt have been too happy at all - as you know, re-arranging customers and keeping them all happy is pretty impossible. Thanks Common sense returneth Allan. But I would still ask the question, that as a trademan (and I presume you are qualified as such), knowing that there was severe damage to some of the components, why didn't you check the bath (and any other unopened packages) before contacting B&Q the first time? To paraphrase Abe Lincoln You can fool all the cutomers some of the time, and some of the customers all the time, but you cannot fool all the customers all the time (and get away with it) :-) tanner-'op |
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#25
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
"A.Lee" wrote in message ... I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q. My parents have a B&Q bathroom suite in their holiday apartment. I went from Barnsley to Wath to Rotherham and finally to Doncaster B&Qs before my Dad was happy to buy an unscratched and undamaged bath to load into my van. These were not the cheapo baths but he was not prepared for delivery of an unknown bath. So rang up, OK, we'll get a new one out to you next week. "Well, how about tomorrow, so I can fit it?" Sorry, too busy, next week is the earliest. My next door neighbour is having a new bathroom fitted this week (the neighbour on the side that I get on with) The plumber fitting the suite asked for delivery of the suite a week before fitting so that he could check it's condition and not lose work by waiting for any replacements. Adam |
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#26
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
John Rumm wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote: Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. So why didn't you report those faults? Now, what if another, more obvious fault develops in the bath (or your 'repair' fails and the bath ultimately leaks), just how are you going to manage to convince B&Q to replace it after your bodge-up - or explain what you did to your client - presuming of course that you are warranting the job and will attend any complaint of defective workmanship? Obviously not seeing the fault or the repair it unreasonable to comment in detail. However is does raise another point regarding customers sourcing parts from external suppliers: I wonder how the customer would have reacted when billed for an extra days labour incurred rectifying problems caused B&Q? If the customer has a reasonable case, then B&Q pays as they were responsible for the damage - and could be sued. If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q But surely that doesn't exonerate you from a 'duty of care' to your client? More to the point, you have driven home the fact that you are prepared to 'con' your client by knowingly fitting a defective unit and then hiding that fact - and have the nerve to charge for the job. An alternative view was that he was saving the customer additional cost and delay by making good a minor defect... True, but 'repairing' a crack with silicone one new and (presumably) plastic bath to my mind is not a 'minor defect'. unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldnt trust their delivery staff at all. Well, you are not exactly trustworthy are you? More milk tibbles? In the context of the OP - the question was relevant. Shall I turn over an purr whilst you tickle my tum? Not a cats chance in hell John. LOL As a matter of interest, in this litigious age, I wonder how the client could sue you for if the bath suddenly breaks because of the known (by you and you alone) faults and causes serious injury, personal injury or damage to the property? Mmmm 'veeeeery' interesting! As with all things, it is a judgement call. If the broken bit is structural and failure could result in injury, or it was obvious the repair would always be inferior, then it would be daft to fix it. If on the other hand it is just decorative and can be repaired to be as good as (or in fact better than) new, what is the problem? Any repair with silicone on a cracked (presumably) plastic bath is inferior. I hope this particular customer isn't into reading this group and suddenly puts two and to together. LOL Perhaps he said to the customer - "look this was damaged, but I have fixed it like that". That was not stated in the OP - but has since been clarified. And that was the case. The OP was a 'rant' against B&Q at the expense of very relevant information to the post, All insults will be ignored. By whom? Where's yer crystal ball John? Tanner-'op |
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#27
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
A.Lee wrote:
John Rumm wrote: Tanner-'op wrote: - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. "Allowing the customers..." that's a bit of arrogance there on your part! Surely the 'pipers calls the tune' and they can choose to buy from wherever they wish - as can the so called professional choose who he works for? There is a fundamental difficulty here when the customer buys the raw materials and the fitting service from two (or more) different places. Who carries the can when something is not right? I've done 3 bathrooms in the last 2 months, and all the main parts were supplied by B+Q, and chosen/bought by the customer. I have given guarantees on all the work I have done, but have made it clear that any subsequent fault with the fittings would not be covered by my warranty, though if there is a fault (unlikely, as once they are in, they are very reliable), then I'd probably just do it free of charge anyway. Alan, I quite agree with the above - with the exeption that if the problem was a B&Q one with defective fittings etc (purchased by the customer), then it would be quite reasonable of you to charge a fee for the rectifications works and I would expect that to be made clear in any written or verbal quotation that you gave (I did when I was involved in such things many years ago). The B+Q baths are rubbish. They flex a lot, are so thin that the sun can be seen through them, and the fittings kit is minimal(if the supplied fittings kit is used, I cannot see how the bath would stay in position). Alan. Which brings me back to the viability of the 'repair' that you did and the acceptance by B&Q of any subsequent claim (if any is made) for defects on the bath at a later date. Tanner-'op |
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#28
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-29 00:32:34 +0100, "Tanner-'op" said: Andy Hall wrote: On 2008-05-28 21:01:12 +0100, (A.Lee) said: There are two problems he - Using B&Q as a supplier of products for professional use Many do - including some that post here and they are usually a 'sole trader' - they find it easier - or haven't quite grasped the fact that they can usually haggle a discount with a builders merchant yet charge the customer at full cost plus a percentage for collection. Missed business opportunity.... - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. "Allowing the customers..." that's a bit of arrogance there on your part! Surely the 'pipers calls the tune' and they can choose to buy from wherever they wish - as can the so called professional choose who he works for? One can make that argument. However, it is outcome that ultimately matters. True. Agreements where supply of materials and labour are different deals are wide open to problems. For example, faulty goods, goods that break during fitting, late deliveries, wrong items and so on. I fully accept that - and have seen such problems - and this in fact happened to my sister-in-law, who went against the advice that I gave her on an installed kitchen. She bought the units, appliancess and worktops from four different suppliers and the poor fitters were tearing their hair out by the time they left. On larger and more expensive projects it can be worth giving the installer the margin for managing the whole project and taking responsibility for outcome. Agreed, and that is the advice that I always give - and apply to myself on such jobs. Their operation is like the proverbial curate's egg - good in parts. A bit like some of the major builders/plumbers merchants that I have dealt with over the years - the last one being the Plumb Center very recently. They can manage to exchange goods and even compensate customers, as they should. That's a simple logistics process. Unlike some trademen. They can't manage anything involving more than simple logistics and don't have an appropriate customer service ethic - i.e. if you screw up, you apologise and fix the issue *now*, not next week. At least you can generally contact them - unlike some 'professional' tradesmen who 'cock the job' up and then refuse to honour their contractual obligations to correct defective work *or* even answer their telephones. They believe that price can subsitute for poor customer service. Unfortunately, a significant proportion of customers are not sufficiently bright or assertive and they can get away with it. Again you are a little arrogant regarding 'customers' - a rather typical trait for some tradesmen. I'm not a tradesman, but I do think that outcome and ownership are important. Having clearly defined agreeements is a good way for business to be done. Again, I fully agree with yout statement - and many a 'ripped-off' customer *and * tradesmen for that matter, have failed to do this. Especially on the subject of so-called "extra and unforeseen" works. Tanner-'op Not a sycophant of B&Q by the way - but there again, I never deal with them for major purchases. B&Q are good for what they do - volume distribution of low to medium ticket items for he retail customer. Large purchases and projects, no.. Agreed. Tanner-'op |
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#29
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
A.Lee wrote:
"Tanner-'op" wrote: A.Lee wrote: I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q. All correct procedures up to now! And then you spoil it!! Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. So why didn't you report those faults? No point in reporting them as the fault was minor and easily rectified by a bit of glue, but I pointed it out here,as it should not have been there when delivered. I showed the customer the fault, and he agreed that it wasnt worth waiting over a week to replace the bath when it was in a corner that could not be seen, - it had the wooden support moulded around it, so it could not get any bigger - it was an impact crack on an edge, not something that will get worse. Alan. Alan, I have responded to this elsewhere in this thread. Tanner-'op |
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#30
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
Tanner-'op wrote:
An alternative view was that he was saving the customer additional cost and delay by making good a minor defect... True, but 'repairing' a crack with silicone one new and (presumably) plastic bath to my mind is not a 'minor defect'. Who mentioned silicone? IIRC, Alan said he effected a repair with epoxy resin - i.e the stuff the bath is basically made from in the first place. No reason to believe the repair would be any weaker than the rest of the bath. unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldnt trust their delivery staff at all. Well, you are not exactly trustworthy are you? More milk tibbles? In the context of the OP - the question was relevant. Shall I turn over an purr whilst you tickle my tum? Not a cats chance in hell John. LOL Na, try that with out cat and you would lose your hand! So I am out of cat tickling practice. As a matter of interest, in this litigious age, I wonder how the client could sue you for if the bath suddenly breaks because of the known (by you and you alone) faults and causes serious injury, personal injury or damage to the property? Mmmm 'veeeeery' interesting! As with all things, it is a judgement call. If the broken bit is structural and failure could result in injury, or it was obvious the repair would always be inferior, then it would be daft to fix it. If on the other hand it is just decorative and can be repaired to be as good as (or in fact better than) new, what is the problem? Any repair with silicone on a cracked (presumably) plastic bath is inferior. Possibly... but again where did you get silicone from? Perhaps he said to the customer - "look this was damaged, but I have fixed it like that". That was not stated in the OP - but has since been clarified. And that was the case. Twas no need to go calling him "untrustworthy" then was there? The OP was a 'rant' against B&Q at the expense of very relevant information to the post, All insults will be ignored. By whom? Where's yer crystal ball John? I don't clink when I walk, put it that way. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#31
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
On 2008-05-29 17:36:44 +0100, "Tanner-'op" said:
A.Lee wrote: John Rumm wrote: Tanner-'op wrote: - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. "Allowing the customers..." that's a bit of arrogance there on your part! Surely the 'pipers calls the tune' and they can choose to buy from wherever they wish - as can the so called professional choose who he works for? There is a fundamental difficulty here when the customer buys the raw materials and the fitting service from two (or more) different places. Who carries the can when something is not right? I've done 3 bathrooms in the last 2 months, and all the main parts were supplied by B+Q, and chosen/bought by the customer. I have given guarantees on all the work I have done, but have made it clear that any subsequent fault with the fittings would not be covered by my warranty, though if there is a fault (unlikely, as once they are in, they are very reliable), then I'd probably just do it free of charge anyway. Alan, I quite agree with the above - with the exeption that if the problem was a B&Q one with defective fittings etc (purchased by the customer), then it would be quite reasonable of you to charge a fee for the rectifications works and I would expect that to be made clear in any written or verbal quotation that you gave (I did when I was involved in such things many years ago). The B+Q baths are rubbish. They flex a lot, are so thin that the sun can be seen through them, and the fittings kit is minimal(if the supplied fittings kit is used, I cannot see how the bath would stay in position). Alan. Which brings me back to the viability of the 'repair' that you did and the acceptance by B&Q of any subsequent claim (if any is made) for defects on the bath at a later date. Tanner-'op All of which can be avoided if the tradesman supplies and fits...... Then everybody knows exactly where they are and there is no argument. |
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#32
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
On 2008-05-29 17:07:56 +0100, "ARWadworth"
said: "A.Lee" wrote in message ... I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q. My parents have a B&Q bathroom suite in their holiday apartment. I went from Barnsley to Wath to Rotherham and finally to Doncaster B&Qs before my Dad was happy to buy an unscratched and undamaged bath to load into my van. These were not the cheapo baths but he was not prepared for delivery of an unknown bath. They have a holiday apartment in Rotherham? So rang up, OK, we'll get a new one out to you next week. "Well, how about tomorrow, so I can fit it?" Sorry, too busy, next week is the earliest. My next door neighbour is having a new bathroom fitted this week (the neighbour on the side that I get on with) The plumber fitting the suite asked for delivery of the suite a week before fitting so that he could check it's condition and not lose work by waiting for any replacements. Adam Smart operator. |
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#33
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
John Rumm wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote: An alternative view was that he was saving the customer additional cost and delay by making good a minor defect... True, but 'repairing' a crack with silicone one new and (presumably) plastic bath to my mind is not a 'minor defect'. Who mentioned silicone? IIRC, Alan said he effected a repair with epoxy resin - i.e the stuff the bath is basically made from in the first place. No reason to believe the repair would be any weaker than the rest of the bath. unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldnt trust their delivery staff at all. Well, you are not exactly trustworthy are you? More milk tibbles? In the context of the OP - the question was relevant. Shall I turn over an purr whilst you tickle my tum? Not a cats chance in hell John. LOL Na, try that with out cat and you would lose your hand! So I am out of cat tickling practice. As a matter of interest, in this litigious age, I wonder how the client could sue you for if the bath suddenly breaks because of the known (by you and you alone) faults and causes serious injury, personal injury or damage to the property? Mmmm 'veeeeery' interesting! As with all things, it is a judgement call. If the broken bit is structural and failure could result in injury, or it was obvious the repair would always be inferior, then it would be daft to fix it. If on the other hand it is just decorative and can be repaired to be as good as (or in fact better than) new, what is the problem? Any repair with silicone on a cracked (presumably) plastic bath is inferior. Possibly... but again where did you get silicone from? Ah! That should have been epoxy - but my reply still stands. Perhaps he said to the customer - "look this was damaged, but I have fixed it like that". That was not stated in the OP - but has since been clarified. And that was the case. Twas no need to go calling him "untrustworthy" then was there? That was just a response to part of his rhetoric against B&Q and the wording of his OP suggested that Alan was 'up to no good'. That's the problem when posts are made and all the facts are not available unfortunately - and I hate people being taken for a ride, whether they are customers *or* tradesmen - but that's just crusty old me. The OP was a 'rant' against B&Q at the expense of very relevant information to the post, All insults will be ignored. By whom? Where's yer crystal ball John? I don't clink when I walk, put it that way. You must keep it rather warm then - *and* it must be uncomfortable when walking and sitting. ;-) Tanner-'op |
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#34
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-29 17:36:44 +0100, "Tanner-'op" said: A.Lee wrote: John Rumm wrote: Tanner-'op wrote: - Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit. "Allowing the customers..." that's a bit of arrogance there on your part! Surely the 'pipers calls the tune' and they can choose to buy from wherever they wish - as can the so called professional choose who he works for? There is a fundamental difficulty here when the customer buys the raw materials and the fitting service from two (or more) different places. Who carries the can when something is not right? I've done 3 bathrooms in the last 2 months, and all the main parts were supplied by B+Q, and chosen/bought by the customer. I have given guarantees on all the work I have done, but have made it clear that any subsequent fault with the fittings would not be covered by my warranty, though if there is a fault (unlikely, as once they are in, they are very reliable), then I'd probably just do it free of charge anyway. Alan, I quite agree with the above - with the exeption that if the problem was a B&Q one with defective fittings etc (purchased by the customer), then it would be quite reasonable of you to charge a fee for the rectifications works and I would expect that to be made clear in any written or verbal quotation that you gave (I did when I was involved in such things many years ago). The B+Q baths are rubbish. They flex a lot, are so thin that the sun can be seen through them, and the fittings kit is minimal(if the supplied fittings kit is used, I cannot see how the bath would stay in position). Alan. Which brings me back to the viability of the 'repair' that you did and the acceptance by B&Q of any subsequent claim (if any is made) for defects on the bath at a later date. Tanner-'op All of which can be avoided if the tradesman supplies and fits...... Then everybody knows exactly where they are and there is no argument. I agree, as I have said in a post elsewhere in this thread - but you cannot force the customer into that, only advise, along with the fact that the tradesman can refuse to fit such items if he so wishes. Or if he wishes to do the job, include conditions into his verbal or written quote to the effect that he will only be responsible for the work he does, along with the material he supplies - and will charge extra to resolve problems with any customer supplied materials including time lost because of them. Tanner-'op |
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#35
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
Tanner-'op wrote: The Medway Handyman wrote: Tanner-'op wrote: SNIP All correct procedures up to now! And then you spoil it!! Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. So why didn't you report those faults? Because B&Q would take a week to sort it out, leaving Alan with no work for several days (and therefore no wages) and the customer with no bath. He had to wait a wait for the other damaged stuff so that was no excuse. Besides, if he knew the new bath was damaged, why pull the old one? Wait a wait? He would still have been in the same 'no wages' position through no fault of his own. I don't know Alan apart from his posts here, but he seems like an honest man. I'm sure he would not have installed the bath if he thought there would be a future problem. He installed a damaged bath - and from the tone of the OP - without the clients knowledge. So draw your own conclusions. I know that he installed a bath with minor cosmetic damage with the customers full agreement - I did that by reading the posts, not jumping to conclusions. If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q But surely that doesn't exonerate you from a 'duty of care' to your client? More to the point, you have driven home the fact that you are prepared to 'con' your client by knowingly fitting a defective unit and then hiding that fact - and have the nerve to charge for the job. You seem to have a problem with the self employed tradesman - where you bitten by one as a child? As an apprenticed trademan of some 40 years experience, many of those dealing with the self employed, gerally no - but with some *YES*. Can we have that again in English please Mr 'Trademan'? It doesn't 'gerally' make any sense at all. There are 'trademen' and there a pseudo-tradesmen. By the way, if you are getting a little personal, what are *your* formal qualifications that allow you to be let loose as a 'handyman' (you know, the ones that you studied for) - or is handyman the limit of your knowledge? If it is, then I would suspect the quality of some of the work that you do. And what would these handyman qualifications be oh wise one? I must have missed them during the 2 months of research I did before starting up. There are no qualifications as you well know. A reality check. What reality check? The villain of the piece here is B&Q plain & simple, aided and abetted by the client buying cheap. Alan is the poor ******* stuck in the middle. Partly correct about B&Q - but that was exacerbated by the events after delivery. Are you of the opinion that *you* can *force* the client to buy *dear*, knowing full well that *dear* is not always the best quality but a 'rip-off'? You can advise the client based on your knowledge & experience. A bit patronising that from a mere handyman. A bit patronising calling me a mere handyman. Initially Allan was the one point of common sense in this - he started off using it, and then for some reason lost it. Lets assume that Alan allowed 3 days to do the job. He finds on day 1 that the bath has a minor fault, B&Q can't sort it for a week. Would you call a *new* bath that needs a silicone filler to repair a crack a minor fault? Shows your experience doesn't it? Errm - that was epoxy not silicone. Please read the posts properly. SNIP The question is rhetorical - he had to wait a week for replacements for damaged parts didn't he? Yes WITHOUT WAGES! And knowing very well how plumbers price, (presuming he is a plumber) then all that would have happened here is a little less profit margin. ;-) He is a handyman, not a plumber. Please read the posts properly. All insults will be ignored. But I had to respond to this idiot. I'm starting to be able to spot potential arseholes like you and simply turn down the work. That's the problem Dave, I know how to deal with tradesmen (and I wouldn't let a franchised handyman like you loose on repairing a rabbit hutch with a defective barrel-bolt let alone some of the work that you allegedly do) - especially with some of the comments/questions you pose in the group - you lack a great deal of experience. First of all, you clearly have no idea how to treat tradesmen, you have an attitude problem. Secondly I'm not a franchised handyman, the business is entirely my creation. I must be doing things badly, that's why I'm the only Trading Standards accredited handyman in the area, run an extremely profitable business & am currently booked until the first week in July. We all lack experience in some areas, that's why the wise amongst us ask questions. As a matter of interest. I learnt way back in the sixties, during a long and hard apprenticeship how to spot the "aresole" of a builder (and so-called handymen like you). One of the signs is asking for a high deposit before you start the job so that he can buy the materials - a nasty sign that. Which just goes to show how what you learned parrot fashion 40 years ago has changed since. “The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.” It seems you are deliberately miss reading or miss quoting posts simply to cause trouble. I'm beginning to think we have a new troll. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
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#36
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
Tanner-'op wrote: John Rumm wrote: Any repair with silicone on a cracked (presumably) plastic bath is inferior. Possibly... but again where did you get silicone from? Ah! That should have been epoxy - but my reply still stands. So, let me get this right. A repair made to a polyester resin bath using epoxy resin is inferior? It would be stronger that the f*ck*n bath you fool. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
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#37
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
On 2008-05-29 22:25:01 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said: Wait a wait? He would still have been in the same 'no wages' position through no fault of his own. There's the problem. Thinking in terms of 'wages' rather than revenue or more importanly, margin. |
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#38
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
A.Lee wrote: I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q. BIG SNIP Hi Alan I've had the same sort of trouble with B&Q. Bits missing mainly. The way I've sorted it is to develop a good relationship with a local independant plumbing supplies/bathroom studio. They keep a big pile of my business cards. I mention them on my website & advise customers to buy from them. We both get extra business that way. Being independant & small they really know their stuff & don't sell crap, all the bits are in the box and they have great customer service - I've only ever had one problem with a faulty part (which they couldn't reasonably have spotted) and when I phoned they offered to bring a replacement straight over in a van. Worth a thought. I also like the idea of saying "OK, buy it from B&Q f you want, but if any parts are missing or damaged I'll have to charge extra to sort things out". -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
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#39
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
Andy Hall wrote: On 2008-05-29 22:25:01 +0100, "The Medway Handyman" said: Wait a wait? He would still have been in the same 'no wages' position through no fault of his own. There's the problem. Thinking in terms of 'wages' rather than revenue or more importanly, margin. I do see what you are saying, but in this instance Alan would have been without revenue/wages for 2 days and made no margin. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
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#40
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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B+Q bathrooms - again.
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote: The Medway Handyman wrote: Tanner-'op wrote: SNIP All correct procedures up to now! And then you spoil it!! Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner - it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner. So why didn't you report those faults? Because B&Q would take a week to sort it out, leaving Alan with no work for several days (and therefore no wages) and the customer with no bath. He had to wait a wait for the other damaged stuff so that was no excuse. Besides, if he knew the new bath was damaged, why pull the old one? Wait a wait? He would still have been in the same 'no wages' position through no fault of his own. I don't know Alan apart from his posts here, but he seems like an honest man. I'm sure he would not have installed the bath if he thought there would be a future problem. He installed a damaged bath - and from the tone of the OP - without the clients knowledge. So draw your own conclusions. I know that he installed a bath with minor cosmetic damage with the customers full agreement - I did that by reading the posts, not jumping to conclusions. If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q But surely that doesn't exonerate you from a 'duty of care' to your client? More to the point, you have driven home the fact that you are prepared to 'con' your client by knowingly fitting a defective unit and then hiding that fact - and have the nerve to charge for the job. You seem to have a problem with the self employed tradesman - where you bitten by one as a child? As an apprenticed trademan of some 40 years experience, many of those dealing with the self employed, gerally no - but with some *YES*. Can we have that again in English please Mr 'Trademan'? It doesn't 'gerally' make any sense at all. Try putting brain into gear and read it again my handyman - you will get it. There are 'trademen' and there a pseudo-tradesmen. By the way, if you are getting a little personal, what are *your* formal qualifications that allow you to be let loose as a 'handyman' (you know, the ones that you studied for) - or is handyman the limit of your knowledge? If it is, then I would suspect the quality of some of the work that you do. And what would these handyman qualifications be oh wise one? I must have missed them during the 2 months of research I did before starting up. There are no qualifications as you well know. 2 months of research? As I have previously said - you lack experience. A reality check. What reality check? The villain of the piece here is B&Q plain & simple, aided and abetted by the client buying cheap. Alan is the poor ******* stuck in the middle. Partly correct about B&Q - but that was exacerbated by the events after delivery. Are you of the opinion that *you* can *force* the client to buy *dear*, knowing full well that *dear* is not always the best quality but a 'rip-off'? You can advise the client based on your knowledge & experience. That's not what you implied is it - and what experience have you had? 2 months research into the viability of a franchise. A bit patronising that from a mere handyman. A bit patronising calling me a mere handyman. Well that's how you advertise yourself *The* *Medway* *Handyman* isn't - so that's what you are, a mere handyman. Your getting a guilt complex now - so can we expect a change of title? Initially Allan was the one point of common sense in this - he started off using it, and then for some reason lost it. Lets assume that Alan allowed 3 days to do the job. He finds on day 1 that the bath has a minor fault, B&Q can't sort it for a week. Would you call a *new* bath that needs a silicone filler to repair a crack a minor fault? Shows your experience doesn't it? Errm - that was epoxy not silicone. Please read the posts properly. Quite correct oh perfect one - but my original statement still stands and if you agree with that repair, then your really are crap as a handyman. SNIP The question is rhetorical - he had to wait a week for replacements for damaged parts didn't he? Yes WITHOUT WAGES! Please read Alan's resonse to you - he had other works there - so you need some practice on how to "read a post properly". LOL And knowing very well how plumbers price, (presuming he is a plumber) then all that would have happened here is a little less profit margin. ;-) He is a handyman, not a plumber. Please read the posts properly. He does not say that - if he does, then point out the quote in the OP - so you need some further practice in post reading oh imperfect one. ROTFLMAO All insults will be ignored. But I had to respond to this idiot. I'm starting to be able to spot potential arseholes like you and simply turn down the work. That's the problem Dave, I know how to deal with tradesmen (and I wouldn't let a franchised handyman like you loose on repairing a rabbit hutch with a defective barrel-bolt let alone some of the work that you allegedly do) - especially with some of the comments/questions you pose in the group - you lack a great deal of experience. First of all, you clearly have no idea how to treat tradesmen, you have an attitude problem. Secondly I'm not a franchised handyman, the business is entirely my creation. A 5 year apprenticeship, 10 years on the tools and over 20 years, a manager on multi-trade building maintenance contracts on both public and private buildings of over .5 million pounds each - until I took early retirement - a bit more experience than two months research of a franchise Dave. I must be doing things badly, that's why I'm the only Trading Standards accredited handyman in the area, run an extremely profitable business & am currently booked until the first week in July. Well what else could you say? As you say *A* *HANDYMAN* a term that you objected to previously - tut, tut. We all lack experience in some areas, that's why the wise amongst us ask questions. But a Abe Lincoln once said: It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. As a matter of interest. I learnt way back in the sixties, during a long and hard apprenticeship how to spot the "aresole" of a builder (and so-called handymen like you). One of the signs is asking for a high deposit before you start the job so that he can buy the materials - a nasty sign that. Which just goes to show how what you learned parrot fashion 40 years ago has changed since. “The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.” No, 40 years ago I was taught to think and the correct way to do things and NOT to demand extortionate deposits It seems you are deliberately miss reading or miss quoting posts simply to cause trouble. I'm beginning to think we have a new troll. How can I be deliberately misreading your posts? you wrote them along with their nuances. With regards to calling me a 'troll' - then that tells me that a lot of what I have posted has been too near the truth for you, especially as I don't consider you the best handyman on the block - you have an over-inflated ego methinks. By the way, has the world finished copying the contentents of your web-site yet - or have you successfully sued anyone for plagiarism of "your" words? Tanner-'op Awaiting the next round. VBG |
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