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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

Electrical question.

I'm redecorating the sitting room and it has all white plastic sockets,
light switches, aerial points etc. I'd like to replace these with metal
faceplates.

1. Is this a job that a reasonably competent d-i-y-er could take on? I'm
assuming that the wiring schema won't differ? Will this hold good for
dimmer switches as well?

2. From what I can gather, the fixings for the faceplates are at the same
centres, but are the screws/threads likely to be the same? Or will I need
to change the boxes as well?

3. Are all faceplates for sockets/light switches the same, or are they
sized according to the depth of the box behind?

In other words, what do I need to do/measure to be able to change like for
like?

Thanks

Edward


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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

Edward wrote:
Electrical question.

I'm redecorating the sitting room and it has all white plastic sockets,
light switches, aerial points etc. I'd like to replace these with metal
faceplates.

1. Is this a job that a reasonably competent d-i-y-er could take on? I'm
assuming that the wiring schema won't differ? Will this hold good for
dimmer switches as well?

2. From what I can gather, the fixings for the faceplates are at the same
centres, but are the screws/threads likely to be the same? Or will I need
to change the boxes as well?

3. Are all faceplates for sockets/light switches the same, or are they
sized according to the depth of the box behind?

In other words, what do I need to do/measure to be able to change like for
like?

Thanks

Edward



A piece of cake IME. The cables should already be the right length so
it's just a question of connecting them up to the new terminals.
You'd be very unlucky if the holes didn't line up or the new bolts were
the wrong length. The thread is standard AFAIK
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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates


"Edward" wrote in message
...
Electrical question.

I'm redecorating the sitting room and it has all white plastic sockets,
light switches, aerial points etc. I'd like to replace these with metal
faceplates.

1. Is this a job that a reasonably competent d-i-y-er could take on? I'm
assuming that the wiring schema won't differ? Will this hold good for
dimmer switches as well?

2. From what I can gather, the fixings for the faceplates are at the same
centres, but are the screws/threads likely to be the same? Or will I need
to change the boxes as well?

3. Are all faceplates for sockets/light switches the same, or are they
sized according to the depth of the box behind?

In other words, what do I need to do/measure to be able to change like for
like?

Thanks

Edward

What is age of house / wiring? The depth can be an issue if you have a
shallow box and will be fitting a dimmer (in some cases) - but you can get a
spacer


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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

Edward wrote:
Electrical question.

I'm redecorating the sitting room and it has all white plastic
sockets, light switches, aerial points etc. I'd like to replace
these with metal faceplates.

1. Is this a job that a reasonably competent d-i-y-er could take on?


Should be straightforward enough in principle. The main assumption
though is that you have ordinary "modern" wiring, ie you don't have an
awful prehistoric system with crumbling rubber insulation - if that's
the case don't touch this task with a bargepole.

Things to consider/watch out for - I'm sure others will add to the list!:

Remember that the positions of L, N and E terminals may not be in the
same relative positions in the new sockets as in the old - check the
labelling of the terminals.

Do you have a CPC (earth wire) in your lighting circuit? If not, then
you wouldn't want to use metal faceplates, if so, is it accessible or
has the original electrician who wired your plastic faceplates just
chopped it off flush (which would make your task more complicated).

Are any of your light switches 2-way (ie, switchable from different
positions)? If so they can be awkward to rewire; terminals not
necessarily in the same position and without a bit of know-how there you
could find yourself in a mess! Also the faceplates for 2-way
lightswitches are different to 1-way.

2. From what I can gather, the fixings for the faceplates are at the
same centres, but are the screws/threads likely to be the same? Or
will I need to change the boxes as well?


3. Are all faceplates for sockets/light switches the same, or are
they sized according to the depth of the box behind?


Faceplates have no relevance to the depth of the box behind; you might
just need longer screws than normal (recycle the old screws if need
be?); and if the old faceplates are so old that their fixing holes are
on different centres to the new ones, then as above I suggest you
shouldn't be doing this at all! So no need to change backboxes.

assuming that the wiring schema won't differ? Will this hold good
for dimmer switches as well?


If you've already got working dimmer switches, I can't think of any
reason why replacing them with metal ones would be any issue.

hth
David


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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates


"Lobster" wrote in message
...


3. Are all faceplates for sockets/light switches the same, or are they
sized according to the depth of the box behind?


Faceplates have no relevance to the depth of the box behind; you might
just need longer screws than normal (recycle the old screws if need
be?); and if the old faceplates are so old that their fixing holes are
on different centres to the new ones, then as above I suggest you
shouldn't be doing this at all! So no need to change backboxes.

Apart from the flush plate metal sockets that require a 35mm deep backbox.

Adam



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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

On Sat, 31 May 2008 15:25:12 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

wall boxes The thread is standard AFAIK


Standard but very odd. Metric 3.5mm IIRC.

Does anything else use this size thread?
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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

In article ,
Edward wrote:
Electrical question.


I'm redecorating the sitting room and it has all white plastic sockets,
light switches, aerial points etc. I'd like to replace these with metal
faceplates.


1. Is this a job that a reasonably competent d-i-y-er could take on?
I'm assuming that the wiring schema won't differ? Will this hold good
for dimmer switches as well?


The wiring is the same.

2. From what I can gather, the fixings for the faceplates are at the
same centres, but are the screws/threads likely to be the same? Or
will I need to change the boxes as well?


It depends how old the original installation is. Round about 1970, the
screw threads changed from BA to metric.

3. Are all faceplates for sockets/light switches the same, or are they
sized according to the depth of the box behind?


Some fittings are designed to fit shallow boxes. Makes a new installation
easier, they say. If you're unlucky and have shallow boxes new fittings
needing deeper ones won't fit. The other way round is OK. You're most
likely to come across this with lighting switches.

In other words, what do I need to do/measure to be able to change like
for like?


Other thing to look out for is whether an earth is present at the light
switches. Older installations may not have this. Which is fine with
plastic switches but metal plate ones generally have to be earthed.

Thanks


Edward


--
*I was once a millionaire but my mom gave away my baseball cards

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

In article ,
PCPaul wrote:
wall boxes The thread is standard AFAIK


Standard but very odd. Metric 3.5mm IIRC.


Does anything else use this size thread?


It's not a 'preferred' size, but you can get them in non electrical type
screws. RS components,etc. It was picked as being the closest to 4BA.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

On Sat, 31 May 2008 19:04:13 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
PCPaul wrote:
wall boxes The thread is standard AFAIK


Standard but very odd. Metric 3.5mm IIRC.


Does anything else use this size thread?


It's not a 'preferred' size, but you can get them in non electrical type
screws. RS components,etc. It was picked as being the closest to 4BA.


I know you can get them if you hunt around - I was just wondering if
anything else uses them 'as standard'.

IME you often find new switches with metric screws have just been self-
tapped into old backboxes anyway..
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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Edward wrote:


[snip]

2. *From what I can gather, the fixings for the faceplates are at the
same centres, but are the screws/threads likely to be the same? *Or
will I need to change the boxes as well?


It depends how old the original installation is. Round about 1970, the
screw threads changed from BA to metric.


In which case there's no need to change the box, just re-use the original
screws.

--
Mike Clarke


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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

In article ,
Mike Clarke wrote:
It depends how old the original installation is. Round about 1970, the
screw threads changed from BA to metric.


In which case there's no need to change the box, just re-use the original
screws.


Can do but they may not look too pretty with fancy metal fittings.

--
*Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

Edward wrote:
Electrical question.

I'm redecorating the sitting room and it has all white plastic sockets,
light switches, aerial points etc. I'd like to replace these with metal
faceplates.


Fine, although if your lighting circuit wiring is old, you may find you
have no earth connection wired to each switch. That would preclude use
of metal faceplates.

1. Is this a job that a reasonably competent d-i-y-er could take on? I'm


Yes

assuming that the wiring schema won't differ? Will this hold good for
dimmer switches as well?


Generally yes. It should be a like for like swap - the actual terminal
positions may be in different places on the fitting - but there will be
a functional match.

Make sure if you have any lights switched from two positions you get
2-way switches. If you need a two position dimmer then you need master
slave pairs.

2. From what I can gather, the fixings for the faceplates are at the same
centres, but are the screws/threads likely to be the same? Or will I need
to change the boxes as well?


They will probably be the same unless the back boxes are very old - in
which case the thread of the screws may differ. In which case reuse the
old screws.

3. Are all faceplates for sockets/light switches the same, or are they
sized according to the depth of the box behind?


Generally the same. Some are shallower than others and hence easier to
squeeze into a shallow back box along with the wires.

(if you get stuck with difficulty getting too many wires into a shallow
back box then you can order extenders from CPC that neatly space the
faceplate a further 10mm off the wall).


In other words, what do I need to do/measure to be able to change like for
like?


Basically choose a range of accessories you like and order all the bits
(see www.tlc-direct.co.uk). No need to measure.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates



Lobster wrote:
Edward wrote:
Electrical question.

I'm redecorating the sitting room and it has all white plastic
sockets, light switches, aerial points etc. I'd like to replace
these with metal faceplates.

1. Is this a job that a reasonably competent d-i-y-er could take on?


Should be straightforward enough in principle. The main assumption
though is that you have ordinary "modern" wiring, ie you don't have an
awful prehistoric system with crumbling rubber insulation - if that's
the case don't touch this task with a bargepole.

Things to consider/watch out for - I'm sure others will add to the
list!:
Remember that the positions of L, N and E terminals may not be in the
same relative positions in the new sockets as in the old - check the
labelling of the terminals.

Do you have a CPC (earth wire) in your lighting circuit? If not, then
you wouldn't want to use metal faceplates, if so, is it accessible or
has the original electrician who wired your plastic faceplates just
chopped it off flush (which would make your task more complicated).

Are any of your light switches 2-way (ie, switchable from different
positions)? If so they can be awkward to rewire; terminals not
necessarily in the same position and without a bit of know-how there
you could find yourself in a mess! Also the faceplates for 2-way
lightswitches are different to 1-way.

2. From what I can gather, the fixings for the faceplates are at the
same centres, but are the screws/threads likely to be the same? Or
will I need to change the boxes as well?


3. Are all faceplates for sockets/light switches the same, or are
they sized according to the depth of the box behind?


Faceplates have no relevance to the depth of the box behind; you might
just need longer screws than normal (recycle the old screws if need
be?); and if the old faceplates are so old that their fixing holes are
on different centres to the new ones, then as above I suggest you
shouldn't be doing this at all! So no need to change backboxes.

assuming that the wiring schema won't differ? Will this hold good
for dimmer switches as well?


If you've already got working dimmer switches, I can't think of any
reason why replacing them with metal ones would be any issue.


Excellent & comprehensive reply that man!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
(if you get stuck with difficulty getting too many wires into a shallow
back box then you can order extenders from CPC that neatly space the
faceplate a further 10mm off the wall).


To me, the very best looking fitting ever made would look worse than the
cheapest one if spaced off the wall like this. It simply looks like the
bodge it is.

--
*I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
(if you get stuck with difficulty getting too many wires into a shallow
back box then you can order extenders from CPC that neatly space the
faceplate a further 10mm off the wall).


To me, the very best looking fitting ever made would look worse than the
cheapest one if spaced off the wall like this. It simply looks like the
bodge it is.


The few times I have seen it done, you don't really notice it to be fair
(with white accessories anyway!) - it also a significantly quicker and
easier job than swapping out the back box for a deeper one).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
To me, the very best looking fitting ever made would look worse than
the cheapest one if spaced off the wall like this. It simply looks
like the bodge it is.


The few times I have seen it done, you don't really notice it to be fair
(with white accessories anyway!) - it also a significantly quicker and
easier job than swapping out the back box for a deeper one).


Surely with plastic fittings it should be possible to find one that fits a
shallow box?

Of course a dimmer may be the exception and I'd accept a spacer being used
until decoration time - but that's a different scenario from changing
plastic to metal fittings which is presumably being done for cosmetics.

--
*I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. *

Dave Plowman London SW
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Surely with plastic fittings it should be possible to find one that fits a
shallow box?


Unless you have settled on a design that is not available in shallow
versions.

The other common problem is co-ax outlets when rewired in CT100 - the
bending radius is not as tight as your typical low loss co-ax and hence
the spacers can be very useful there.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Surely with plastic fittings it should be possible to find one that
fits a shallow box?


Unless you have settled on a design that is not available in shallow
versions.


The other common problem is co-ax outlets when rewired in CT100 - the
bending radius is not as tight as your typical low loss co-ax and hence
the spacers can be very useful there.


Right. But I must admit to never actually having used a plaster depth box
- as when I have tried to the plaster is never as deep as the box. So once
you've decided to cut into the brick etc you might as well carry on and
fit a decent depth one.

--
*On the seventh day He brewed beer *

Dave Plowman London SW
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Default Replacing socket and light switch faceplates

On May 31, 3:06*pm, "Edward" wrote:
Electrical question.

I'm redecorating the sitting room and it has all white plastic sockets,
light switches, aerial points etc. *I'd like to replace these with metal
faceplates.



When I replaced the sockets in my 1960s house I found that the ones I
had initially chosen (MK) has slightly smaller holes for the wires and
that there was not enough space for the three cables that some sockets
had (2 ring cables and one spur).

I found that the Crabtree ones had biiger holes.



Robert

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RobertL wrote:
On May 31, 3:06 pm, "Edward" wrote:
Electrical question.

I'm redecorating the sitting room and it has all white plastic sockets,
light switches, aerial points etc. I'd like to replace these with metal
faceplates.



When I replaced the sockets in my 1960s house I found that the ones I
had initially chosen (MK) has slightly smaller holes for the wires and
that there was not enough space for the three cables that some sockets
had (2 ring cables and one spur).


You mean the screw terminals? I find it hard to believe that any
sockets by MK (arguably the top brand) wouldn't accept three standard
2.5mm^2 wires as the configuration you've described is very common.
Maybe you had thicker cable than usual for a ring main?

David


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In article ,
Lobster wrote:
When I replaced the sockets in my 1960s house I found that the ones I
had initially chosen (MK) has slightly smaller holes for the wires and
that there was not enough space for the three cables that some sockets
had (2 ring cables and one spur).


You mean the screw terminals? I find it hard to believe that any
sockets by MK (arguably the top brand) wouldn't accept three standard
2.5mm^2 wires as the configuration you've described is very common.
Maybe you had thicker cable than usual for a ring main?


60s wiring is probably 7/ .029, and three lots of that could be a problem
to fit in a modern socket.

--
*Toilet stolen from police station. Cops have nothing to go on.

Dave Plowman London SW
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On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:24:55 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
You mean the screw terminals? I find it hard to believe that any
sockets by MK (arguably the top brand) wouldn't accept three standard
2.5mm^2 wires as the configuration you've described is very common.
Maybe you had thicker cable than usual for a ring main?


60s wiring is probably 7/ .029, and three lots of that could be a
problem to fit in a modern socket.


Then you make it into three lots of 5/.029 ;-)
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In article ,
Lobster writes:
RobertL wrote:
When I replaced the sockets in my 1960s house I found that the ones I
had initially chosen (MK) has slightly smaller holes for the wires and
that there was not enough space for the three cables that some sockets
had (2 ring cables and one spur).


You mean the screw terminals? I find it hard to believe that any
sockets by MK (arguably the top brand) wouldn't accept three standard
2.5mm^2 wires as the configuration you've described is very common.
Maybe you had thicker cable than usual for a ring main?


My parents still have many of their original 1955 MK 13A sockets,
and they easily take 4 wires per terminal.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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