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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Labour Cost for Fence Works etc



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 24th 08, 08:26 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 2,817
Default Labour Cost for Fence Works etc

TheScullster used his keyboard to write :
Hi all

One of my not-too-DIY posts - sorry.
I am about to invite quotes for the erection of a fence to 2 sides of my back
garden.
As the site is quite exposed I intend to specify conrete posts.
Q1 - what height of post would be recommended (ie how much post in the
ground)? - The fence will be 1800 high panels on top of 150 high gravel
board.


2 to 3 foot into the ground. The gravel board is a good idea - helps
stop the panels rotting too soon. If the site is very exposed, it might
be worth looking at some measure to prevent the panels being blown out
by the wind - extra battens plus some wire around post and through
panels.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


Ads
  #12  
Old March 24th 08, 09:11 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,252
Default Labour Cost for Fence Works etc

ARWadworth wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
To supply and fit, I'd charge 90 per panel (for feather edge board
panels, 10 cheaper for cheaper lapped panels), plus 70 for a gate.
1150 all in.
For labour only, that'd be taking the old down,digging the holes, then
putting the new up, probably 2 days work, 250.


As discussed in previous threads, you are too cheap. You are also supposed
to have a mark up on your parts and materials to allow you to order and
collect them. Think bigger. It is a supply and demand world (at least the UK
is) so unless you are not in demand put your prices up. 125 a day is not a
real day. You have to have days off, go on holiday, pay for tools,
transport, advertising, tax, insurance. Your daily rate has to pay for these
things on your days off.


Well, yes, i know that, but actually getting the work is not quite as
easy as people think. I've had a reasonable past 2 months, as I'm
starting to get repeat customers, but it is difficult getting work at
all times, and if I started asking for 200 a day, then I'd get no work.

I put an ad in the local paper, and got around 25 phone calls that
weekend. It made me feel really busy. But, a week later, it dawned on me
that I had got no work whatsoever out of the ad.
1 bloke asked if I could do block paving. I told him no, as it was a bit
too specialised. He insisted that I go to have a look, so I went round,
said, OK, I'll do it, (it was a small section in a garden, around 5m x
1m with a curve at one end). It'll take 2 days (though I expected it to
take only around 10 hours), so I said 160 labour only.
The bloke thought I was joking, he said I could do it for 50 the next
day if I wanted. I declined.
I charge a fixed rate of 30 to fit a new internal door. A woman wanted
5 new doors putting on. OK, as they are all in one place, I'd do it for
100. She again thought I was taking the ****, and tried to bargain me
down to 75.

To show what I'm up against, a Pikey came up to me when I was cutting
down some conifers (I started off doing a bit of gardening, but dont do
it any more apart from existing customers who ask).
He said he'd cut all the trees down, and take away the waste for 60.
I was charging 200, which included 100 to hire a skip.
If my customer had heard him, I'm sure I'd have got the boot, and pikey
man would have been there with his flat bed, chopping them down, then
fly tipping.
So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more
difficult.
Alan.
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  #13  
Old March 24th 08, 09:11 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,252
Default Labour Cost for Fence Works etc

John wrote:

The guy who did mine and the neighbours either side 4 years ago, (all fences
are concrete posts 1' gravel boards and 5' high 6' long Heavy Duty
weatherboard(?) panels) told me as a rule of thumb he worked on 50 a panel
installed and the old stuff removed, then again he had a big wood burning
stove/heater in his workshop so was glad of the scrap. I am in West
Yorkshire if that helps.


That'd be close to material cost price now.
Cheapest panels are 18, posts 10, gravel board 10, cement 1, ballast
1.50. Better quality panels are 7 - 10 more.
I'm cheap, but couldnt even get near 50 per panel.
I start at 65 a panel for an all wood fence with the cheapest
panels.I'm not a fan of the concrete posts, mainly as they are so ugly,
but they are also not as long lived as people think, the wooden posts in
my garden are 15+ years old and are still very solid, but younger
concrete posts in the neighourhood are started to chip/crack/break, with
occasional rust spots showing through from the rebar.
Alan.
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  #14  
Old March 24th 08, 09:34 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 499
Default Labour Cost for Fence Works etc


"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
ARWadworth wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
To supply and fit, I'd charge 90 per panel (for feather edge board
panels, 10 cheaper for cheaper lapped panels), plus 70 for a gate.
1150 all in.
For labour only, that'd be taking the old down,digging the holes, then
putting the new up, probably 2 days work, 250.


As discussed in previous threads, you are too cheap. You are also
supposed
to have a mark up on your parts and materials to allow you to order and
collect them. Think bigger. It is a supply and demand world (at least the
UK
is) so unless you are not in demand put your prices up. 125 a day is not
a
real day. You have to have days off, go on holiday, pay for tools,
transport, advertising, tax, insurance. Your daily rate has to pay for
these
things on your days off.


Well, yes, i know that, but actually getting the work is not quite as
easy as people think. I've had a reasonable past 2 months, as I'm
starting to get repeat customers, but it is difficult getting work at
all times, and if I started asking for 200 a day, then I'd get no work.

I put an ad in the local paper, and got around 25 phone calls that
weekend. It made me feel really busy. But, a week later, it dawned on me
that I had got no work whatsoever out of the ad.
1 bloke asked if I could do block paving. I told him no, as it was a bit
too specialised. He insisted that I go to have a look, so I went round,


You failed, A No should mean a NO. Be stronger.

said, OK, I'll do it, (it was a small section in a garden, around 5m x
1m with a curve at one end). It'll take 2 days (though I expected it to
take only around 10 hours), so I said 160 labour only.
The bloke thought I was joking, he said I could do it for 50 the next
day if I wanted. I declined.
I charge a fixed rate of 30 to fit a new internal door. A woman wanted
5 new doors putting on. OK, as they are all in one place, I'd do it for
100. She again thought I was taking the ****, and tried to bargain me
down to 75.


Tell her to **** off (in a polite manner).


To show what I'm up against, a Pikey came up to me when I was cutting
down some conifers (I started off doing a bit of gardening, but dont do
it any more apart from existing customers who ask).
He said he'd cut all the trees down, and take away the waste for 60.
I was charging 200, which included 100 to hire a skip.
If my customer had heard him, I'm sure I'd have got the boot, and pikey
man would have been there with his flat bed, chopping them down, then
fly tipping.


The best tool to under cut a Pikey is a scythe.


So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more
difficult.
Alan.


Stick with it mate. You will get there if you want to.

Adam

  #15  
Old March 24th 08, 10:07 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 11
Default Labour Cost for Fence Works etc


Well, yes, i know that, but actually getting the work is not quite as
easy as people think. I've had a reasonable past 2 months, as I'm
starting to get repeat customers, but it is difficult getting work at
all times, and if I started asking for 200 a day, then I'd get no
work.

Whereabouts are you? Around here (London E5) the going rate would be
much higher; and the quality of your English would allow you to command
a premium from a minority of the residents. And that's before even
thinking about going over the borders into Islington, the City etc.

Indeed, looking ahead to when/if I get the spare bedroom sorted, what'd
be your daily rate for London (with free bed/meals/beer/wine/jasmine
tea/whatever included) to help do a bathroom, garden shed, dry lining,
kitchen, ...................?
--
Robin


  #16  
Old March 24th 08, 11:33 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 8,323
Default Labour Cost for Fence Works etc

A.Lee wrote:
ARWadworth wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
To supply and fit, I'd charge 90 per panel (for feather edge board
panels, 10 cheaper for cheaper lapped panels), plus 70 for a gate.
1150 all in.
For labour only, that'd be taking the old down,digging the holes,
then putting the new up, probably 2 days work, 250.


As discussed in previous threads, you are too cheap. You are also
supposed to have a mark up on your parts and materials to allow you
to order and collect them. Think bigger. It is a supply and demand
world (at least the UK is) so unless you are not in demand put your
prices up. 125 a day is not a real day. You have to have days off,
go on holiday, pay for tools, transport, advertising, tax,
insurance. Your daily rate has to pay for these things on your days
off.


Wise words from Adam.

Well, yes, i know that, but actually getting the work is not quite as
easy as people think. I've had a reasonable past 2 months, as I'm
starting to get repeat customers, but it is difficult getting work at
all times, and if I started asking for 200 a day, then I'd get no
work.


There is certainly an upper limit on what you can charge, but I remain busy
at my prices (check the web site) and some consider me too cheap.

I put an ad in the local paper, and got around 25 phone calls that
weekend. It made me feel really busy. But, a week later, it dawned on
me that I had got no work whatsoever out of the ad.


Its not as simple as that. The occassional ad in the local rag won't keep
you busy. You need to generate enough enquiries to be selective in what you
take on.

SNIP
The bloke thought I was joking, he said I could do it for 50 the next
day if I wanted. I declined.
I charge a fixed rate of 30 to fit a new internal door. A woman
wanted 5 new doors putting on. OK, as they are all in one place, I'd
do it for 100. She again thought I was taking the ****, and tried to
bargain me down to 75.


You have to consider how your customers are seeing you. How you present
your 'brand'. They obviously see you as a cheap odd job man - not as a
professional handyman. Thats why they are surprised at your prices.

To show what I'm up against, a Pikey came up to me


SNIP

You will always lose some work to people who undercut you. Many customers
are willing to pay a reasonable rate to avoid pikeys & cheap jobs. You need
to direct your marketing towards them.

So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more
difficult.


Where abouts in the UK are you? ISTR Leicester?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257


  #17  
Old March 25th 08, 09:30 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 8,323
Default Marketing. Was Labour Cost for Fence Works etc

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more difficult.

The Medway Handyman wrote:


You have to consider how your customers are seeing you. How you
present your 'brand'. They obviously see you as a cheap odd job man
- not as a professional handyman. Thats why they are surprised at
your prices.
To show what I'm up against, a Pikey came up to me.


Think about this Alan. You recently spent 400 on a Festool drill driver
when you could have bought a Challenge Extreeme from Argos for 30.

A small proportion of the members of this group would consider the Festool
good value. I suspect the majority would consider it too expensive.

A large proportion would consider the Challege Extreeme too cheap to be any
good, a minority would think it adequate for their needs.

Many would consider Bosch Blue, Makita & DeWalt a good balance between price
& quality. Some would think Ryobi or Green Bosch a better match for their
needs.

You are getting Challenge Extreeme customers & quoting Makita prices.

Its all about 'positioning'. Andy Hall seems to know a thing or two about
this and may be along shortly - he can probably explain it better that I.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257



  #18  
Old March 25th 08, 09:49 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,288
Default Labour Cost for Fence Works etc

Thanks to all.
As I am looking at fancy panels and want long posts, I'll budget on 1500
total.
Should have pointed out that the fence is to replace a line of unruly
conifers, so these will have been removed prior.

Phil


  #19  
Old March 25th 08, 07:16 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,252
Default Labour Cost for Fence Works etc

neverwas wrote:


Well, yes, i know that, but actually getting the work is not quite as
easy as people think. I've had a reasonable past 2 months, as I'm
starting to get repeat customers, but it is difficult getting work at
all times, and if I started asking for 200 a day, then I'd get no
work.

Whereabouts are you? Around here (London E5) the going rate would be
much higher; and the quality of your English would allow you to command
a premium from a minority of the residents. And that's before even
thinking about going over the borders into Islington, the City etc.


Sorry, a bit too far for me - I'm in Leicester.
And if I advertised on here, it could upset the 'locals'!
Alan.

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  #20  
Old March 25th 08, 07:16 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,252
Default Marketing. Was Labour Cost for Fence Works etc

The Medway Handyman wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more difficult.


You have to consider how your customers are seeing you. How you
present your 'brand'. They obviously see you as a cheap odd job man
- not as a professional handyman. Thats why they are surprised at
your prices.


Think about this Alan. You recently spent 400 on a Festool drill driver
when you could have bought a Challenge Extreeme from Argos for 30.

A small proportion of the members of this group would consider the Festool
good value. I suspect the majority would consider it too expensive.


The Festool drill is worth every penny IMO. It really is good.

You are getting Challenge Extreeme customers & quoting Makita prices.
Its all about 'positioning'. Andy Hall seems to know a thing or two about
this and may be along shortly - he can probably explain it better that I.


Yes, I know. I'm working on my new advert in the next few days, I think
I'll be targetting bathrooms and kitchens, both of which I am good at,
and I like doing them.
The trouble with being a 'handyman', is that people expect you to be
cheap, (well, thats what I've found). Saying you are a kitchen fitter
immediately makes you stand out a little, but obviously narrows the
market.
I dont really advertise, but will be making an effort over the next
weeks, as, TBH, I'm probably below minimum wage now, but, on the up
side, I have a lot of good kit that I didnt have 6 months ago, so can
tackle jobs that I couldnt do then.
All of my profit goes back into new kit etc, I do expect to see some
profit back in future years, but at the moment, it is a struggle.
Ta
Alan.
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