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Default Labour Cost for Fence Works etc

Hi all

One of my not-too-DIY posts - sorry.
I am about to invite quotes for the erection of a fence to 2 sides of my
back garden.
As the site is quite exposed I intend to specify conrete posts.
Q1 - what height of post would be recommended (ie how much post in the
ground)? - The fence will be 1800 high panels on top of 150 high gravel
board.
Q2 - what sort of labour cost would be expected? - There will be 12 panels
in all and one gate to be fitted (14 posts total).

Thanks in anticipation

Phil


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At least a third of the post in the ground.

Labour depends on removal of old fences/obstacles, ground conditions,
vegetation, accessibility etc - but very roughly 3 days.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "TheScullster"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 4:45 PM
Subject: Labour Cost for Fence Works etc


Hi all

One of my not-too-DIY posts - sorry.


I can lend you a cement mixer and a spade Fence posts are a pice of ****
unless you have a glass back.

I am about to invite quotes for the erection of a fence to 2 sides of my
back garden.
As the site is quite exposed I intend to specify conrete posts.
Q1 - what height of post would be recommended (ie how much post in the
ground)? - The fence will be 1800 high panels on top of 150 high gravel
board.


You need at least a quarter of the post in the gound . I will look later for
you but there is a recommended size requirement for the width of the
concrete base as well.


Q2 - what sort of labour cost would be expected? - There will be 12 panels
in all and one gate to be fitted (14 posts total).



I managed to erect 7 posts (properly aligned and set in 2 feet deep) on a
steep garden and built my own fence panels with the help of a friend in 2
man hour days. We staged it over a weekend to let the posts set. Or was that
because we went to the pub on the Saturday afternoon?

I would expect a pro to do yours in 2 days max on his own. £200 a day is
very reasonable for a self employed guy to dig holes.

Adam

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TheScullster wrote:

I am about to invite quotes for the erection of a fence to 2 sides of my
back garden.
As the site is quite exposed I intend to specify conrete posts.
Q1 - what height of post would be recommended (ie how much post in the
ground)? - The fence will be 1800 high panels on top of 150 high gravel
board.


8 foot high would be fine, but if you are really worried, then I'd put 9
feet posts in.

Q2 - what sort of labour cost would be expected? - There will be 12 panels
in all and one gate to be fitted (14 posts total).


To supply and fit, I'd charge £90 per panel (for feather edge board
panels, £10 cheaper for cheaper lapped panels), plus £70 for a gate.
£1150 all in.
For labour only, that'd be taking the old down,digging the holes, then
putting the new up, probably 2 days work, £250.
Personally, I'd rather do such jobs as labour only, as it takes another
day ordering/collecting,and getting rid of the waste, as well as tying
up over £500 in cash to pay for the materials.
Alan.
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Fence posts are a pice of ****
unless you have a glass back.


Put me down as glass backed wimp: I found a conventional 2.5m
intermediate post weighed around 80kg which I concluded was a bit much.
If the OP has not used them before worth checking before ordering or
having strong mate(s) to hand?

(The "Supreme lite" posts I used were easy-peasy - but I may yet live to
regret them if they crack/rust/whatever quickly.)

--
Robin




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"A.Lee" wrote in message
.. .
TheScullster wrote:

I am about to invite quotes for the erection of a fence to 2 sides of my
back garden.
As the site is quite exposed I intend to specify conrete posts.
Q1 - what height of post would be recommended (ie how much post in the
ground)? - The fence will be 1800 high panels on top of 150 high gravel
board.


8 foot high would be fine, but if you are really worried, then I'd put 9
feet posts in.

Q2 - what sort of labour cost would be expected? - There will be 12
panels
in all and one gate to be fitted (14 posts total).


To supply and fit, I'd charge £90 per panel (for feather edge board
panels, £10 cheaper for cheaper lapped panels), plus £70 for a gate.
£1150 all in.
For labour only, that'd be taking the old down,digging the holes, then
putting the new up, probably 2 days work, £250.
Personally, I'd rather do such jobs as labour only, as it takes another
day ordering/collecting,and getting rid of the waste, as well as tying
up over £500 in cash to pay for the materials.
Alan.


As discussed in previous threads, you are too cheap. You are also supposed
to have a mark up on your parts and materials to allow you to order and
collect them. Think bigger. It is a supply and demand world (at least the UK
is) so unless you are not in demand put your prices up. £125 a day is not a
real day. You have to have days off, go on holiday, pay for tools,
transport, advertising, tax, insurance. Your daily rate has to pay for these
things on your days off.

Adam

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ARWadworth wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "TheScullster"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 4:45 PM
Subject: Labour Cost for Fence Works etc


Hi all

One of my not-too-DIY posts - sorry.


I can lend you a cement mixer and a spade Fence posts are a pice of
**** unless you have a glass back.

I am about to invite quotes for the erection of a fence to 2 sides of
my
back garden.
As the site is quite exposed I intend to specify conrete posts.
Q1 - what height of post would be recommended (ie how much post in
the ground)? - The fence will be 1800 high panels on top of 150 high
gravel board.


You need at least a quarter of the post in the gound . I will look
later for you but there is a recommended size requirement for the
width of the concrete base as well.


Q2 - what sort of labour cost would be expected? - There will be 12
panels in all and one gate to be fitted (14 posts total).



I managed to erect 7 posts (properly aligned and set in 2 feet deep)
on a steep garden and built my own fence panels with the help of a
friend in 2 man hour days. We staged it over a weekend to let the
posts set. Or was that because we went to the pub on the Saturday
afternoon?
I would expect a pro to do yours in 2 days max on his own. £200 a day
is very reasonable for a self employed guy to dig holes.


I reckon thats under estimated. Fencing is a 2 man job IME. I reckon 2
blokes x 2 days is more realistic for 14 posts.

I'd go in at £220 a day, but only because I have a mate who only wants £60 a
day.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257


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"neverwas" wrote in message
m...
Fence posts are a pice of ****
unless you have a glass back.


Put me down as glass backed wimp: I found a conventional 2.5m
intermediate post weighed around 80kg which I concluded was a bit much. If
the OP has not used them before worth checking before ordering or having
strong mate(s) to hand?

(The "Supreme lite" posts I used were easy-peasy - but I may yet live to
regret them if they crack/rust/whatever quickly.)

--
Robin



I forgot to tell my mate that helped me about the trench across my garden
for the new water supply. It was covered over by the grass I had not cut. He
fell straight down it whilst carrying a 7 foot post. I have it somewhere on
my CCTV records.

Concrete fence posts are much easier fitted with two people.

Adam

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"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
m...
ARWadworth wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "TheScullster"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 4:45 PM
Subject: Labour Cost for Fence Works etc


Hi all

One of my not-too-DIY posts - sorry.


I can lend you a cement mixer and a spade Fence posts are a pice of
**** unless you have a glass back.

I am about to invite quotes for the erection of a fence to 2 sides of
my
back garden.
As the site is quite exposed I intend to specify conrete posts.
Q1 - what height of post would be recommended (ie how much post in
the ground)? - The fence will be 1800 high panels on top of 150 high
gravel board.


You need at least a quarter of the post in the gound . I will look
later for you but there is a recommended size requirement for the
width of the concrete base as well.


Q2 - what sort of labour cost would be expected? - There will be 12
panels in all and one gate to be fitted (14 posts total).



I managed to erect 7 posts (properly aligned and set in 2 feet deep)
on a steep garden and built my own fence panels with the help of a
friend in 2 man hour days. We staged it over a weekend to let the
posts set. Or was that because we went to the pub on the Saturday
afternoon?
I would expect a pro to do yours in 2 days max on his own. £200 a day
is very reasonable for a self employed guy to dig holes.


I reckon thats under estimated. Fencing is a 2 man job IME. I reckon 2
blokes x 2 days is more realistic for 14 posts.

I'd go in at £220 a day, but only because I have a mate who only wants £60
a day.


I am only £40 out on my estimate then.

Adam

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"TheScullster" wrote in message
. uk...
Hi all

One of my not-too-DIY posts - sorry.
I am about to invite quotes for the erection of a fence to 2 sides of my
back garden.
As the site is quite exposed I intend to specify conrete posts.
Q1 - what height of post would be recommended (ie how much post in the
ground)? - The fence will be 1800 high panels on top of 150 high gravel
board.
Q2 - what sort of labour cost would be expected? - There will be 12 panels
in all and one gate to be fitted (14 posts total).


The guy who did mine and the neighbours either side 4 years ago, (all fences
are concrete posts 1' gravel boards and 5' high 6' long Heavy Duty
weatherboard(?) panels) told me as a rule of thumb he worked on £50 a panel
installed and the old stuff removed, then again he had a big wood burning
stove/heater in his workshop so was glad of the scrap. I am in West
Yorkshire if that helps.

Chheers

John




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TheScullster used his keyboard to write :
Hi all

One of my not-too-DIY posts - sorry.
I am about to invite quotes for the erection of a fence to 2 sides of my back
garden.
As the site is quite exposed I intend to specify conrete posts.
Q1 - what height of post would be recommended (ie how much post in the
ground)? - The fence will be 1800 high panels on top of 150 high gravel
board.


2 to 3 foot into the ground. The gravel board is a good idea - helps
stop the panels rotting too soon. If the site is very exposed, it might
be worth looking at some measure to prevent the panels being blown out
by the wind - extra battens plus some wire around post and through
panels.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


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ARWadworth wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
To supply and fit, I'd charge £90 per panel (for feather edge board
panels, £10 cheaper for cheaper lapped panels), plus £70 for a gate.
£1150 all in.
For labour only, that'd be taking the old down,digging the holes, then
putting the new up, probably 2 days work, £250.


As discussed in previous threads, you are too cheap. You are also supposed
to have a mark up on your parts and materials to allow you to order and
collect them. Think bigger. It is a supply and demand world (at least the UK
is) so unless you are not in demand put your prices up. £125 a day is not a
real day. You have to have days off, go on holiday, pay for tools,
transport, advertising, tax, insurance. Your daily rate has to pay for these
things on your days off.


Well, yes, i know that, but actually getting the work is not quite as
easy as people think. I've had a reasonable past 2 months, as I'm
starting to get repeat customers, but it is difficult getting work at
all times, and if I started asking for £200 a day, then I'd get no work.

I put an ad in the local paper, and got around 25 phone calls that
weekend. It made me feel really busy. But, a week later, it dawned on me
that I had got no work whatsoever out of the ad.
1 bloke asked if I could do block paving. I told him no, as it was a bit
too specialised. He insisted that I go to have a look, so I went round,
said, OK, I'll do it, (it was a small section in a garden, around 5m x
1m with a curve at one end). It'll take 2 days (though I expected it to
take only around 10 hours), so I said £160 labour only.
The bloke thought I was joking, he said I could do it for £50 the next
day if I wanted. I declined.
I charge a fixed rate of £30 to fit a new internal door. A woman wanted
5 new doors putting on. OK, as they are all in one place, I'd do it for
£100. She again thought I was taking the ****, and tried to bargain me
down to £75.

To show what I'm up against, a Pikey came up to me when I was cutting
down some conifers (I started off doing a bit of gardening, but dont do
it any more apart from existing customers who ask).
He said he'd cut all the trees down, and take away the waste for £60.
I was charging £200, which included £100 to hire a skip.
If my customer had heard him, I'm sure I'd have got the boot, and pikey
man would have been there with his flat bed, chopping them down, then
fly tipping.
So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more
difficult.
Alan.
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John wrote:

The guy who did mine and the neighbours either side 4 years ago, (all fences
are concrete posts 1' gravel boards and 5' high 6' long Heavy Duty
weatherboard(?) panels) told me as a rule of thumb he worked on £50 a panel
installed and the old stuff removed, then again he had a big wood burning
stove/heater in his workshop so was glad of the scrap. I am in West
Yorkshire if that helps.


That'd be close to material cost price now.
Cheapest panels are £18, posts £10, gravel board £10, cement £1, ballast
£1.50. Better quality panels are £7 - £10 more.
I'm cheap, but couldnt even get near £50 per panel.
I start at £65 a panel for an all wood fence with the cheapest
panels.I'm not a fan of the concrete posts, mainly as they are so ugly,
but they are also not as long lived as people think, the wooden posts in
my garden are 15+ years old and are still very solid, but younger
concrete posts in the neighourhood are started to chip/crack/break, with
occasional rust spots showing through from the rebar.
Alan.
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"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
ARWadworth wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
To supply and fit, I'd charge £90 per panel (for feather edge board
panels, £10 cheaper for cheaper lapped panels), plus £70 for a gate.
£1150 all in.
For labour only, that'd be taking the old down,digging the holes, then
putting the new up, probably 2 days work, £250.


As discussed in previous threads, you are too cheap. You are also
supposed
to have a mark up on your parts and materials to allow you to order and
collect them. Think bigger. It is a supply and demand world (at least the
UK
is) so unless you are not in demand put your prices up. £125 a day is not
a
real day. You have to have days off, go on holiday, pay for tools,
transport, advertising, tax, insurance. Your daily rate has to pay for
these
things on your days off.


Well, yes, i know that, but actually getting the work is not quite as
easy as people think. I've had a reasonable past 2 months, as I'm
starting to get repeat customers, but it is difficult getting work at
all times, and if I started asking for £200 a day, then I'd get no work.

I put an ad in the local paper, and got around 25 phone calls that
weekend. It made me feel really busy. But, a week later, it dawned on me
that I had got no work whatsoever out of the ad.
1 bloke asked if I could do block paving. I told him no, as it was a bit
too specialised. He insisted that I go to have a look, so I went round,


You failed, A No should mean a NO. Be stronger.

said, OK, I'll do it, (it was a small section in a garden, around 5m x
1m with a curve at one end). It'll take 2 days (though I expected it to
take only around 10 hours), so I said £160 labour only.
The bloke thought I was joking, he said I could do it for £50 the next
day if I wanted. I declined.
I charge a fixed rate of £30 to fit a new internal door. A woman wanted
5 new doors putting on. OK, as they are all in one place, I'd do it for
£100. She again thought I was taking the ****, and tried to bargain me
down to £75.


Tell her to **** off (in a polite manner).


To show what I'm up against, a Pikey came up to me when I was cutting
down some conifers (I started off doing a bit of gardening, but dont do
it any more apart from existing customers who ask).
He said he'd cut all the trees down, and take away the waste for £60.
I was charging £200, which included £100 to hire a skip.
If my customer had heard him, I'm sure I'd have got the boot, and pikey
man would have been there with his flat bed, chopping them down, then
fly tipping.


The best tool to under cut a Pikey is a scythe.


So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more
difficult.
Alan.


Stick with it mate. You will get there if you want to.

Adam

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Well, yes, i know that, but actually getting the work is not quite as
easy as people think. I've had a reasonable past 2 months, as I'm
starting to get repeat customers, but it is difficult getting work at
all times, and if I started asking for £200 a day, then I'd get no
work.

Whereabouts are you? Around here (London E5) the going rate would be
much higher; and the quality of your English would allow you to command
a premium from a minority of the residents. And that's before even
thinking about going over the borders into Islington, the City etc.

Indeed, looking ahead to when/if I get the spare bedroom sorted, what'd
be your daily rate for London (with free bed/meals/beer/wine/jasmine
tea/whatever included) to help do a bathroom, garden shed, dry lining,
kitchen, ...................?
--
Robin




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A.Lee wrote:
ARWadworth wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
To supply and fit, I'd charge £90 per panel (for feather edge board
panels, £10 cheaper for cheaper lapped panels), plus £70 for a gate.
£1150 all in.
For labour only, that'd be taking the old down,digging the holes,
then putting the new up, probably 2 days work, £250.


As discussed in previous threads, you are too cheap. You are also
supposed to have a mark up on your parts and materials to allow you
to order and collect them. Think bigger. It is a supply and demand
world (at least the UK is) so unless you are not in demand put your
prices up. £125 a day is not a real day. You have to have days off,
go on holiday, pay for tools, transport, advertising, tax,
insurance. Your daily rate has to pay for these things on your days
off.


Wise words from Adam.

Well, yes, i know that, but actually getting the work is not quite as
easy as people think. I've had a reasonable past 2 months, as I'm
starting to get repeat customers, but it is difficult getting work at
all times, and if I started asking for £200 a day, then I'd get no
work.


There is certainly an upper limit on what you can charge, but I remain busy
at my prices (check the web site) and some consider me too cheap.

I put an ad in the local paper, and got around 25 phone calls that
weekend. It made me feel really busy. But, a week later, it dawned on
me that I had got no work whatsoever out of the ad.


Its not as simple as that. The occassional ad in the local rag won't keep
you busy. You need to generate enough enquiries to be selective in what you
take on.

SNIP
The bloke thought I was joking, he said I could do it for £50 the next
day if I wanted. I declined.
I charge a fixed rate of £30 to fit a new internal door. A woman
wanted 5 new doors putting on. OK, as they are all in one place, I'd
do it for £100. She again thought I was taking the ****, and tried to
bargain me down to £75.


You have to consider how your customers are seeing you. How you present
your 'brand'. They obviously see you as a cheap odd job man - not as a
professional handyman. Thats why they are surprised at your prices.

To show what I'm up against, a Pikey came up to me


SNIP

You will always lose some work to people who undercut you. Many customers
are willing to pay a reasonable rate to avoid pikeys & cheap jobs. You need
to direct your marketing towards them.

So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more
difficult.


Where abouts in the UK are you? ISTR Leicester?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257


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"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more difficult.

The Medway Handyman wrote:


You have to consider how your customers are seeing you. How you
present your 'brand'. They obviously see you as a cheap odd job man
- not as a professional handyman. Thats why they are surprised at
your prices.
To show what I'm up against, a Pikey came up to me.


Think about this Alan. You recently spent £400 on a Festool drill driver
when you could have bought a Challenge Extreeme from Argos for £30.

A small proportion of the members of this group would consider the Festool
good value. I suspect the majority would consider it too expensive.

A large proportion would consider the Challege Extreeme too cheap to be any
good, a minority would think it adequate for their needs.

Many would consider Bosch Blue, Makita & DeWalt a good balance between price
& quality. Some would think Ryobi or Green Bosch a better match for their
needs.

You are getting Challenge Extreeme customers & quoting Makita prices.

Its all about 'positioning'. Andy Hall seems to know a thing or two about
this and may be along shortly - he can probably explain it better that I.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257



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Thanks to all.
As I am looking at fancy panels and want long posts, I'll budget on £1500
total.
Should have pointed out that the fence is to replace a line of unruly
conifers, so these will have been removed prior.

Phil


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neverwas wrote:


Well, yes, i know that, but actually getting the work is not quite as
easy as people think. I've had a reasonable past 2 months, as I'm
starting to get repeat customers, but it is difficult getting work at
all times, and if I started asking for £200 a day, then I'd get no
work.

Whereabouts are you? Around here (London E5) the going rate would be
much higher; and the quality of your English would allow you to command
a premium from a minority of the residents. And that's before even
thinking about going over the borders into Islington, the City etc.


Sorry, a bit too far for me - I'm in Leicester.
And if I advertised on here, it could upset the 'locals'!
Alan.

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The Medway Handyman wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more difficult.


You have to consider how your customers are seeing you. How you
present your 'brand'. They obviously see you as a cheap odd job man
- not as a professional handyman. Thats why they are surprised at
your prices.


Think about this Alan. You recently spent £400 on a Festool drill driver
when you could have bought a Challenge Extreeme from Argos for £30.

A small proportion of the members of this group would consider the Festool
good value. I suspect the majority would consider it too expensive.


The Festool drill is worth every penny IMO. It really is good.

You are getting Challenge Extreeme customers & quoting Makita prices.
Its all about 'positioning'. Andy Hall seems to know a thing or two about
this and may be along shortly - he can probably explain it better that I.


Yes, I know. I'm working on my new advert in the next few days, I think
I'll be targetting bathrooms and kitchens, both of which I am good at,
and I like doing them.
The trouble with being a 'handyman', is that people expect you to be
cheap, (well, thats what I've found). Saying you are a kitchen fitter
immediately makes you stand out a little, but obviously narrows the
market.
I dont really advertise, but will be making an effort over the next
weeks, as, TBH, I'm probably below minimum wage now, but, on the up
side, I have a lot of good kit that I didnt have 6 months ago, so can
tackle jobs that I couldnt do then.
All of my profit goes back into new kit etc, I do expect to see some
profit back in future years, but at the moment, it is a struggle.
Ta
Alan.
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"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
The Medway Handyman wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more
difficult.


You have to consider how your customers are seeing you. How you
present your 'brand'. They obviously see you as a cheap odd job man
- not as a professional handyman. Thats why they are surprised at
your prices.


Think about this Alan. You recently spent £400 on a Festool drill driver
when you could have bought a Challenge Extreeme from Argos for £30.

A small proportion of the members of this group would consider the
Festool
good value. I suspect the majority would consider it too expensive.


The Festool drill is worth every penny IMO. It really is good.

You are getting Challenge Extreeme customers & quoting Makita prices.
Its all about 'positioning'. Andy Hall seems to know a thing or two
about
this and may be along shortly - he can probably explain it better that I.


Yes, I know. I'm working on my new advert in the next few days, I think
I'll be targetting bathrooms and kitchens, both of which I am good at,
and I like doing them.
The trouble with being a 'handyman', is that people expect you to be
cheap, (well, thats what I've found). Saying you are a kitchen fitter
immediately makes you stand out a little, but obviously narrows the
market.
I dont really advertise, but will be making an effort over the next
weeks, as, TBH, I'm probably below minimum wage now, but, on the up
side, I have a lot of good kit that I didnt have 6 months ago, so can
tackle jobs that I couldnt do then.


One thing that stands out clearly in your posts in this thread is that you
would prefer to work/charge labour only. I think that is where you go wrong.
Customers want a full package and are prepared to pay for it. Remember that
people who use a handyman service usually do not have the confidence to do
the job themselves and will also be as unsure about what parts to buy for
you to do the job.

All of my profit goes back into new kit etc, I do expect to see some
profit back in future years, but at the moment, it is a struggle.


Keep it up and good luck.

Adam

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On 2008-03-25 18:16:01 +0000, (A.Lee) said:

The Medway Handyman wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message ...
So, yes, I know I should be charging more, but getting it is more difficult.


You have to consider how your customers are seeing you. How you
present your 'brand'. They obviously see you as a cheap odd job man
- not as a professional handyman. Thats why they are surprised at
your prices.


Think about this Alan. You recently spent £400 on a Festool drill driver
when you could have bought a Challenge Extreeme from Argos for £30.

A small proportion of the members of this group would consider the Festool
good value. I suspect the majority would consider it too expensive.


The Festool drill is worth every penny IMO. It really is good.


I agree, and very adaptable as well.



You are getting Challenge Extreeme customers & quoting Makita prices.
Its all about 'positioning'. Andy Hall seems to know a thing or two about
this and may be along shortly - he can probably explain it better that I.


Alan may have completely different market conditions. For example, I
can remember Dave saying that the Medway towns have a good supply of
people who are relatively cash rich and time poor. Generally, such
people are not as price sensitive as those lacking ability and either
money or a sense of what things cost.

If that doesn't exist in Alan's catchment area or if marketing to date
has not found them, then it's a problem.


Yes, I know. I'm working on my new advert in the next few days, I think
I'll be targetting bathrooms and kitchens, both of which I am good at,
and I like doing them.


The trouble with being a 'handyman', is that people expect you to be
cheap, (well, thats what I've found). Saying you are a kitchen fitter
immediately makes you stand out a little, but obviously narrows the
market.
I dont really advertise, but will be making an effort over the next
weeks, as, TBH, I'm probably below minimum wage now, but, on the up
side, I have a lot of good kit that I didnt have 6 months ago, so can
tackle jobs that I couldnt do then.
All of my profit goes back into new kit etc, I do expect to see some
profit back in future years, but at the moment, it is a struggle.
Ta



There's a lot of things in what you've said here, Alan.

Advertising/marketing. How are you doing it and are you selecting the
means to reach the target market?

For example - let's pretend that I'm one of Dave's target cash
rich/time poor target customers in his area. How would I go about
getting something done? I'm going to be in an office in central
London, in an airport lounge or in another country. More than likely,
I will type "handyman" and "rochester", "chatham", "gillingham" into
Google, identify some likely candidates and either email or call them.
I'm highly unlikely to look at the small ads in the local paper or
in printed Yellow Pages or in the window of the paper shop. However,
who is more likely to look in the latter? I'm not saying that the web
is the be all and end all, but the point is to match means of reaching
the target customer to what works for them.

You say that being a handyman implies that people expect you to be
cheap. Have you looked at the mix of customer and made an assessment
of their means and willingness to spend money? If they are all
expecting "cheap" then either that really is true and the less price
sensitive doesn't exist or you are not reaching them.

You mention that you like doing kitchens and bathrooms. OK. Perhaps
that really says that you prefer more project based work with an
outcome that makes a visible difference. Nothing wrong with that.
Then you have to work out whether you are going to fit on behalf of
kitchen studio or two or do designs as well (or perhaps get them done).
There is an opportunity to make margin on materials as well although
you have to consider whether you would be willing to just fit an
assortment of unsuitable junk that the customer has bought from
goodness knows where.

For kitchen work, you would probably need to become suitably qualified
as an electrician or be willing to sub out the electrical work, and
possibly CORGI to fit cookers and hobs and so on or again sub that out.

It's important to build a portfolio of work that you do into a photo
album. Present it well. This gives future customers an indication of
the quality of your work and also a source of ideas. Then it's
identifying good suppliers with interesting products rather than just
the run of the mill volume warehouse rubbish.






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"A.Lee" wrote in message
...

I dont really advertise, but will be making an effort over the next weeks,


I think you have answered the question Alan.

I'm always busy, at my prices, because I never stop trying to generate
business - even when I'm already busy. The odd advert in the paper simply
won't do the job.

I advertise in two local free papers, they are relatively small & low
circulation compared to the main local - but they get read. The Leicester
Mercury may have a huge circulation, but its difficult for you to stand out.
Costs me £80 a month in total. Ads just feature the logo & contact details.

I can leaflet drop specific areas via those papers, even down to individual
streets - £3 a 100. I do that every other month.

My van is highly visible. The logo is 4' x 2'6" and it has a list of what I
do on the side. I wear overalls & polo shirts with the same logo. Does
this work? Yes!

Got a job last month, couple moved from London into a new build. They
called in a local blind company who have a shop at the end of the road they
live in. They asked the guy fitting the blinds if he knew anyone who could
do some jobs for them. He said he didn't, but he kept seeing this Medway
Handyman van all over the place.

Two days later they saw my van parked in Tesco Express. They didn't want
anything in Tesco, but turned around, parked up & searched the shop for me.

My web site gets me work. I've been on courses from the local enterprise
agency & had some great help from people on this group. My Google rank is
now pretty good. I grab free listings on any site I can - Landlordzone, Gay
to Zed, Vivastreet, The Best Of, HandyLocals etc.

I get work from the councils Fair Trader Scheme.

All the independent places I buy stuff from have a pile of my cards. Every
customer gets a fridge magnet & 3 normal cards.

The logo is important. Its on my web site, my adverts, my van, my clothing,
my letterheads, my flyers.

I'm not in Yellow Pages or Thompson Local because of the outrageous charges.
I think they are yesterdays papers anyway.

Leicester has a larger population than the Medway Towns. My daughter lived
in Saxby St for two years whilst on her fast trac paramedic course with
EMAS. We visited every month, so I know & like the town. Its a prosperous
lively place, there must be enough work about.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257



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My web site gets me work.

Yep excellent simple easy to use and rather helpful in that you know a
man who can if you can't...

--
Tony Sayer


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On 2008-03-25 22:10:29 +0000, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

My van is highly visible. The logo is 4' x 2'6" and it has a list of what I
do on the side. I wear overalls & polo shirts with the same logo. Does
this work? Yes!


Same dimensions? ;-)




Got a job last month, couple moved from London into a new build. They
called in a local blind company who have a shop at the end of the road they
live in. They asked the guy fitting the blinds if he knew anyone who could
do some jobs for them. He said he didn't, but he kept seeing this Medway
Handyman van all over the place.

Two days later they saw my van parked in Tesco Express. They didn't want
anything in Tesco, but turned around, parked up & searched the shop for me.

My web site gets me work. I've been on courses from the local enterprise
agency & had some great help from people on this group. My Google rank is
now pretty good. I grab free listings on any site I can - Landlordzone, Gay
to Zed, Vivastreet, The Best Of, HandyLocals etc.


Vivastreet identified you if I enter "Rochester" and handyman but not
Gillingham or Chatham.



I get work from the councils Fair Trader Scheme.

All the independent places I buy stuff from have a pile of my cards. Every
customer gets a fridge magnet & 3 normal cards.

The logo is important. Its on my web site, my adverts, my van, my clothing,
my letterheads, my flyers.

I'm not in Yellow Pages or Thompson Local because of the outrageous charges.
I think they are yesterdays papers anyway.


Waste of time.




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"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47e98247@qaanaaq...
On 2008-03-25 22:10:29 +0000, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

My van is highly visible. The logo is 4' x 2'6" and it has a list of
what I
do on the side. I wear overalls & polo shirts with the same logo. Does
this work? Yes!


Same dimensions? ;-)


Alas no, I only have a 48" chest :-)




My web site gets me work. I've been on courses from the local enterprise
agency & had some great help from people on this group. My Google rank
is
now pretty good. I grab free listings on any site I can - Landlordzone,
Gay
to Zed, Vivastreet, The Best Of, HandyLocals etc.


Vivastreet identified you if I enter "Rochester" and handyman but not
Gillingham or Chatham.


Strood, Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham & Rainham became the Medway Towns a
while ago.

A lot of these 'free link' companies haven't yet realised that Medway is a
Unitary Authority, so you only get the choice of 1 town, usually that where
you are based.

I'm not in Yellow Pages or Thompson Local because of the outrageous
charges.
I think they are yesterdays papers anyway.


Waste of time.


An expensive waste of time.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257


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