Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down
keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall.
Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the
handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell
off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the
piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for
like from B&Q for £8.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 21 Mar, 17:37, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down
keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall.
Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the
handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell
off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the
piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like for
like from B&Q for £8.

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Any clues as to the wobbly wall's construction ?
Simon.

sm_jamieson wrote:
On 21 Mar, 17:37, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over
the place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside
down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of
the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the
holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly
the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was
undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder.
Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach
down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag
paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8.


Any clues as to the wobbly wall's construction ?

About 3" thick, plasterboard either side, insulation in the middle. Found
the occassionaly wooden stud. All the internal walls were the same.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down
keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall.
Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the
handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell
off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the
piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like
for like from B&Q for £8.

Dave-the Medway handy gorilla.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down
keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall.
Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the
handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell
off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the
piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like
for like from B&Q for £8.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257



It sounds like the screw you used to hold the clock was not the correct
type. It should be one with a round head and flat underside so that it fits
in the slot. The clock shouldn't move if fitted correctly. If the fixing
on the clock was faulty I would be getting in touch with the manufacturer.

Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if hit
with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the condition
you describe.

Which company supplied the bathroom suite? I have never known a toilet seat
lid to crack or break unless a person is extremely obese or they have
"landed" on it, or dropped tools on it. If all houses are built in such an
unacceptable way you should name the builder so we can all avoid them in
future.

"GT" wrote in message
...

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down
keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall.
Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the
handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell
off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it &
the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it
like for like from B&Q for £8.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257



It sounds like the screw you used to hold the clock was not the correct
type. It should be one with a round head and flat underside so that it
fits in the slot. The clock shouldn't move if fitted correctly. If the
fixing on the clock was faulty I would be getting in touch with the
manufacturer.

Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if
hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the
condition you describe.

Which company supplied the bathroom suite? I have never known a toilet
seat lid to crack or break unless a person is extremely obese or they have
"landed" on it, or dropped tools on it. If all houses are built in such
an unacceptable way you should name the builder so we can all avoid them
in future.



The upstairs walls of my 20 year old house are just plasterboard. The
builder fitted a batten along the ceiling and one on the floor and then
erected a plasterboard wall. Stuck some scraps on to give some strength then
another layer on the opposite side of the batten. Plasterboard sandwich.

sm_jamieson wrote:
On 21 Mar, 17:37, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over
the place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside
down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of
the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the
holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly
the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was
undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder.
Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach
down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag
paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8.

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Any clues as to the wobbly wall's construction ?
Simon.

Not Dave answering, but I would suspect something along the lines of
Paramount Partitioning - plasterboard/egg-crate/plasterboard and all held
together by something like 35mm square studding at the sides, top and
bottom.

Old fashioned stuff really for todays modern construction.

BRG

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down
keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall.
Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the
handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell
off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the
piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like
for like from B&Q for £8.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257


Sounds like plasterboard laminating to me, did some myself about 20 years
ago and hated it. Flimsy battens about 20mm or so at floor & ceilng lines
with intermediate studs, board one side with 12.5mm plasterboard using nails
( just about wrecking it already ), then a layer of plank (19mm
plasterboard) on the other side fixed with sloppy drywall adhesive, complete
with rough cutouts for sockets, cables and other services, this is then
followed by another layer of 12.5mm board using the adhesive.
Quite solid once it's gone off but I could never make any money doing it and
it seemed a very complicated way of building a wall !
I'd be very concerned if they are allowed to build walls such as this with
all the new regulations in force today.
Franko.

"GT" wrote

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all
over the place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those
upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other
side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs
into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook
so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and
was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll
holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach
down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag
paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8.

It sounds like the screw you used to hold the clock was not the
correct type. It should be one with a round head and flat underside
so that it fits in the slot. The clock shouldn't move if fitted
correctly. If the fixing on the clock was faulty I would be getting
in touch with the manufacturer.

I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you
describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing.


Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it
moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building
inspection in the condition you describe.

Well, it was signed off. All the small internal walls moved slightly.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

John wrote:
"GT" wrote in message
...

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all
over the place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those
upside down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other
side of the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs
into the holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook
so badly the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and
was undamaged. Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll
holder. Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach
down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag
paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257



It sounds like the screw you used to hold the clock was not the
correct type. It should be one with a round head and flat underside
so that it fits in the slot. The clock shouldn't move if fitted
correctly. If the fixing on the clock was faulty I would be getting
in touch with the manufacturer.

Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it
moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building
inspection in the condition you describe.

Which company supplied the bathroom suite? I have never known a
toilet seat lid to crack or break unless a person is extremely obese
or they have "landed" on it, or dropped tools on it. If all houses
are built in such an unacceptable way you should name the builder so
we can all avoid them in future.



The upstairs walls of my 20 year old house are just plasterboard. The
builder fitted a batten along the ceiling and one on the floor and
then erected a plasterboard wall. Stuck some scraps on to give some
strength then another layer on the opposite side of the batten.
Plasterboard sandwich.

That sounds like it.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 21 Mar, 19:32, "BRG" wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote:
On 21 Mar, 17:37, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over
the place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside
down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of
the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the
holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly
the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was
undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder.
Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach
down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag
paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8.

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Any clues as to the wobbly wall's construction ?
Simon.

Not Dave answering, but I would suspect something along the lines of
Paramount Partitioning - plasterboard/egg-crate/plasterboard and all held
together by something like 35mm square studding at the sides, top and
bottom.

Old fashioned stuff really for todays modern construction.

BRG

I thought there were regs for sound insulation between rooms now.
Surely these pathetic walls would not pass !
Simon.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down
keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall.
Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the
handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell
off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the
piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like
for like from B&Q for £8.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257





I was visiting my sister-in-law last year in Wem, Shropshire.
They've just moved into a new-build.

I had some minor DIY to do, messing about with sockets etc.
( In the heathen part-p lands south of the border, no less :-) )

All the non-structural internal partitions were constructed like this:

The internal 'framing' was metal ( I use the term 'metal' loosely, tinfoil
might be a better description. ) strips, along the roof and floor, and
uprights spaced alarmingly far apart ( well over 600mm, closer to 1000mm ).
No dwangs or noggins or whatever local term you like between the uprights.
Plasterboard on each side, attached like sails to this sparse tinfoil
chassis. Total thickness around 3".

This seems to be identical to the internal partitioning we have in some
portakabins at our work.

I'd be able to walk through it, if a took a determined stride towards it.
You daren't lean against it. There's no way on earth to mount anything
heavy on these walls ( cupboards, plasma TV etc ). You'd need to pull them
down and re-build with a decent timber frame.

The structural partitions were brickwork with plasterboard glued on to it
( 'dot-and-daub, it may be called? ).

Seems to be the modern ( cheap ) way.

--
Ron

Sounds like plasterboard laminating to me, did some myself about 20 years
ago and hated it. Flimsy battens about 20mm or so at floor & ceilng lines
with intermediate studs, board one side with 12.5mm plasterboard using
nails ( just about wrecking it already ), then a layer of plank (19mm
plasterboard) on the other side fixed with sloppy drywall adhesive,
complete with rough cutouts for sockets, cables and other services, this
is then followed by another layer of 12.5mm board using the adhesive.
Quite solid once it's gone off but I could never make any money doing it
and it seemed a very complicated way of building a wall !
I'd be very concerned if they are allowed to build walls such as this with
all the new regulations in force today.
Franko.


That sounds about right. Good flat walls - space saving - but poor sound
insulation.
--


--
John

HI All

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:38:48 -0000, "Ron Lowe"
ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote:

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
m...
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down
keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall.
Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the
handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell
off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the
piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like
for like from B&Q for £8.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257





I was visiting my sister-in-law last year in Wem, Shropshire.
They've just moved into a new-build.

I had some minor DIY to do, messing about with sockets etc.
( In the heathen part-p lands south of the border, no less :-) )

All the non-structural internal partitions were constructed like this:

The internal 'framing' was metal ( I use the term 'metal' loosely, tinfoil
might be a better description. ) strips, along the roof and floor, and
uprights spaced alarmingly far apart ( well over 600mm, closer to 1000mm ).
No dwangs or noggins or whatever local term you like between the uprights.
Plasterboard on each side, attached like sails to this sparse tinfoil
chassis. Total thickness around 3".

This seems to be identical to the internal partitioning we have in some
portakabins at our work.

I'd be able to walk through it, if a took a determined stride towards it.
You daren't lean against it. There's no way on earth to mount anything
heavy on these walls ( cupboards, plasma TV etc ). You'd need to pull them
down and re-build with a decent timber frame.

The structural partitions were brickwork with plasterboard glued on to it
( 'dot-and-daub, it may be called? ).

Seems to be the modern ( cheap ) way.

When I worked for British Gypsum (the plaster & plasterboard people)
back in the late '70s - they were busily promoting all sorts of weird
& wonderful partitioning systems - including the Paramount (eggbox /
plasterboard sandwich), the metal-framing shceme that you describe
above (though I seem to recall that the verticals should be at 600mm
centres - as in 1/2 a plasterboard's width), and the laminated scheme
which was plasterboard glued to plasterboard.

However, I think that they were promoting these as _temporary_
solutions - particularly in places like offices & factories - where
flexible layouts were the key. One of the selling points of the
Paramount systems was that you could actually 'demount' (!) the whole
wall and re-erect it in a different location - when you redesign the
office layout.

I don't remember that these schemes were ever intended for long-term,
residential use - as someone rightly said - there's no real strength
in them - and, without putting in a lot of effort, their sound
insulation isn't brilliant.

Sounds like cheap & shoddy housebuilding, to me !

Adrian

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
HI All

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:38:48 -0000, "Ron Lowe"
ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote:

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside
down
keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall.
Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with
the
handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock
fell
off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it &
the
piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like
for like from B&Q for £8.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257





I was visiting my sister-in-law last year in Wem, Shropshire.
They've just moved into a new-build.

I had some minor DIY to do, messing about with sockets etc.
( In the heathen part-p lands south of the border, no less :-) )

All the non-structural internal partitions were constructed like this:

The internal 'framing' was metal ( I use the term 'metal' loosely, tinfoil
might be a better description. ) strips, along the roof and floor, and
uprights spaced alarmingly far apart ( well over 600mm, closer to
1000mm ).
No dwangs or noggins or whatever local term you like between the uprights.
Plasterboard on each side, attached like sails to this sparse tinfoil
chassis. Total thickness around 3".

This seems to be identical to the internal partitioning we have in some
portakabins at our work.

I'd be able to walk through it, if a took a determined stride towards it.
You daren't lean against it. There's no way on earth to mount anything
heavy on these walls ( cupboards, plasma TV etc ). You'd need to pull
them
down and re-build with a decent timber frame.

The structural partitions were brickwork with plasterboard glued on to it
( 'dot-and-daub, it may be called? ).

Seems to be the modern ( cheap ) way.

When I worked for British Gypsum (the plaster & plasterboard people)
back in the late '70s - they were busily promoting all sorts of weird
& wonderful partitioning systems - including the Paramount (eggbox /
plasterboard sandwich), the metal-framing shceme that you describe
above (though I seem to recall that the verticals should be at 600mm
centres - as in 1/2 a plasterboard's width), and the laminated scheme
which was plasterboard glued to plasterboard.

However, I think that they were promoting these as _temporary_
solutions - particularly in places like offices & factories - where
flexible layouts were the key. One of the selling points of the
Paramount systems was that you could actually 'demount' (!) the whole
wall and re-erect it in a different location - when you redesign the
office layout.

I don't remember that these schemes were ever intended for long-term,
residential use - as someone rightly said - there's no real strength
in them - and, without putting in a lot of effort, their sound
insulation isn't brilliant.

Sounds like cheap & shoddy housebuilding, to me !

Adrian


My 46 year old bungalow (Trusteel) is dry lined with paramount partition
(egg tray and plasterboard type ) plaster skimmed each side,cheap at the
time though very solid and wearing well, all we could afford at the time
,£1800,

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:12:56 -0000, a particular chimpanzee, "GT"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if hit
with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the condition
you describe.

The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall
is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and
25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be
75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or
impact resistance.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

Hugo Nebula wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:12:56 -0000, a particular chimpanzee, "GT"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it
moved if hit with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building
inspection in the condition you describe.

The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall
is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and
25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be
75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or
impact resistance.

Thanks for that. I reckon it must have been 75mm timber as the overall
thickness seemed about 100mm.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
....
Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it & the
piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it like
for like from B&Q for £8.

There are two British Standards for WC lids. Only one includes the
requirement to support an externally applied weight.

Colin Bignell

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
...
Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach
down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag
paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8.

There are two British Standards for WC lids. Only one includes the
requirement to support an externally applied weight.

Oh. I certainly didn't know that. I'm not touching another one thats for
sure!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote in message
...
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over the
place round here.

Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside down
keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of the wall.
Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the holes with the
handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly the bloody clock fell
off! Landed on a settee luckily and was undamaged.

Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder. Dropped a
screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach down & get it &
the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag paper. Replaced it
like for like from B&Q for £8.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257





I was visiting my sister-in-law last year in Wem, Shropshire.
They've just moved into a new-build.

I had some minor DIY to do, messing about with sockets etc.
( In the heathen part-p lands south of the border, no less :-) )

All the non-structural internal partitions were constructed like this:

The internal 'framing' was metal ( I use the term 'metal' loosely, tinfoil
might be a better description. ) strips, along the roof and floor, and
uprights spaced alarmingly far apart ( well over 600mm, closer to
1000mm ). No dwangs or noggins or whatever local term you like between the
uprights. Plasterboard on each side, attached like sails to this sparse
tinfoil chassis. Total thickness around 3".

1) Was there a skim of plaster on the boards?

2) Was there sound proofing inside the wall?

tim

"Hugo Nebula" abuse@localhost wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:12:56 -0000, a particular chimpanzee, "GT"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if
hit
with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the
condition
you describe.

The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall
is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and
25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be
75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or
impact resistance.

Don't they have to be a 1 hour fire break as well.

I was told by the BI that a single plaster board was not enough for this.

tim

sm_jamieson wrote:
On 21 Mar, 19:32, "BRG" wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote:
On 21 Mar, 17:37, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Working in a local new build today, houses are springing up all over
the place round here.
Fixed a clock to a wall, single screw, clock had one of those upside
down keyhole slots. Downstairs cloakroom was on the other side of
the wall. Fixed a towel rail to the wall. Tapped the plugs into the
holes with the handle of a screwdriver and the wall shook so badly
the bloody clock fell off! Landed on a settee luckily and was
undamaged.
Still in the downstairs cloak, fitting a toilet roll holder.
Dropped a screw, rested my forearm on the lid of the WC to reach
down & get it & the piggin lid cracked in half! As thick as a fag
paper. Replaced it like for like from B&Q for £8.
--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257
Any clues as to the wobbly wall's construction ?
Simon.
Not Dave answering, but I would suspect something along the lines of
Paramount Partitioning - plasterboard/egg-crate/plasterboard and all held
together by something like 35mm square studding at the sides, top and
bottom.

Old fashioned stuff really for todays modern construction.

BRG

I thought there were regs for sound insulation between rooms now.
Surely these pathetic walls would not pass !
Simon.

Actually they insulate quite well.

tim (not at home) wrote:
"Hugo Nebula" abuse@localhost wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:12:56 -0000, a particular chimpanzee, "GT"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Which builder was it that put a house up with a wall so thin it moved if
hit
with a screwdriver? It wouldn't pass a building inspection in the
condition
you describe.
The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall
is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and
25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be
75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or
impact resistance.

Don't they have to be a 1 hour fire break as well.

I was told by the BI that a single plaster board was not enough for this.

tim



I dont think firebreak is needed on all walls..just some.

Owain wrote:
BRG wrote:
Not Dave answering, but I would suspect something along the lines of
Paramount Partitioning - plasterboard/egg-crate/plasterboard and all
held together by something like 35mm square studding at the sides,
top and bottom.

It sounds like something they'd use just after the second World War
when building materials were in short supply.

Owain

Our 1965 dormer bungalow has it for all non-loadbearing walls.

John

The Medway Handyman wrote:

I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you
describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing.

Just being a touch picky here, but a pan head screw can also be named a
cheese headed screw. Just imagine either a full round of cheese, or a
kitchen pan upside down and both have a screwdriver slot in the top,
then you have a pan head, or a cheese head screw depending on where you
come from.

Round headed screws are as was described, round headed. :-)

Dave

Dave wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you
describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing.

Just being a touch picky here, but a pan head screw can also be named a
cheese headed screw. Just imagine either a full round of cheese, or a
kitchen pan upside down and both have a screwdriver slot in the top,
then you have a pan head, or a cheese head screw depending on where you
come from.

Round headed screws are as was described, round headed. :-)

Not quite - according to that arbiter of all disgreements and fount of
all knowledge - wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Shapes_of_screw_head

The picture there shows a panhead screw as having a chamfered outer
edge. However I freely acknowledge that the naming might have (even
probably has) a regional element.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Dave wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you
describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing.

Just being a touch picky here, but a pan head screw can also be named a
cheese headed screw.

No. DEFINITLY not.

Cheese head is a square section top, Hex is a square section hex top,
pan head is like an inverted frying pan and round head is wok shaped IYSWIM.


Just imagine either a full round of cheese, or a
kitchen pan upside down and both have a screwdriver slot in the top,
then you have a pan head, or a cheese head screw depending on where you
come from.

Round headed screws are as was described, round headed. :-)

Dave

Dunno where you picked up that ******** mate.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:44:14 UTC, Dave wrote:

The Medway Handyman wrote:

I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you
describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing.

Just being a touch picky here, but a pan head screw can also be named a
cheese headed screw. Just imagine either a full round of cheese, or a
kitchen pan upside down and both have a screwdriver slot in the top,
then you have a pan head, or a cheese head screw depending on where you
come from.

Sorry, but no. Cheese head screws have straight sides, pan head screws
don't. For example, see:

http://www.pts-uk.com/prodrng.htm

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On 23 Mar, 19:31, "Bob Eager" wrote:

Sorry, but no. Cheese head screws have straight sides, pan head screws
don't. For example, see:

You learn something new every year. I thought a cheese-head screw was
one whose slot gave way when you tried to turn it. Maybe I'm thinking
of bolt heads on Japanese motorcycles.

Regards
Richard
(confused)

geraldthehamster wrote:
On 23 Mar, 19:31, "Bob Eager" wrote:

Sorry, but no. Cheese head screws have straight sides, pan head screws
don't. For example, see:

You learn something new every year. I thought a cheese-head screw was
one whose slot gave way when you tried to turn it. Maybe I'm thinking
of bolt heads on Japanese motorcycles.

Regards
Richard
(confused)
Grommet is a cheese head. Or is it wallace?

Bob Eager wrote:

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:44:14 UTC, Dave wrote:


The Medway Handyman wrote:


I'm fully aware of what screw to use thank you. I used the type you
describe, the pan head that comes as standard with the easi drive fixing.

Just being a touch picky here, but a pan head screw can also be named a
cheese headed screw. Just imagine either a full round of cheese, or a
kitchen pan upside down and both have a screwdriver slot in the top,
then you have a pan head, or a cheese head screw depending on where you
come from.


Sorry, but no. Cheese head screws have straight sides, pan head screws
don't. For example, see:

http://www.pts-uk.com/prodrng.htm

Yes. :-)
Probably a better description that I tried and failed to convey.

An earlier link posted from wiki tried to explain the difference between
a bolt and a screw. Just talking from an engineering point of view, I
was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and
the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus
a thread. The reason I say this, is that I have spent over 25 years in
the aerospace industry and France, Italy and Germany all got together to
create a standard that could be applied.
Bolts were given one common number, followed by info that described the
thread diam and length of the plain shank and screws were given another,
followed again by the same sort of info, but was the total length of the
threaded portion and were then broken down into minute detail in the
standards books.

Dave

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:59:37 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Just talking from an engineering point of view, I
was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and
the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus
a thread.

AIUI, a bolt is intended to be held still while a nut is tightened on
to it (a bit like a stud), whereas a screw is intended to be rotated
into the nut (or casting, or whatever).

--
Frank Erskine

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Frank Erskine
saying something like:

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:59:37 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Just talking from an engineering point of view, I
was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and
the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus
a thread.

AIUI, a bolt is intended to be held still while a nut is tightened on
to it (a bit like a stud), whereas a screw is intended to be rotated
into the nut (or casting, or whatever).

Most importantly, a properly fitted bolt is used where shear loads are
present (although dowels should be present also) whereas setscrews are
just for securing components like covers, etc.
--

Dave

Dave wrote:

An earlier link posted from wiki tried to explain the difference between
a bolt and a screw. Just talking from an engineering point of view, I
was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and
the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus
a thread. The reason I say this, is that I have spent over 25 years in
the aerospace industry and France, Italy and Germany all got together to
create a standard that could be applied.
Bolts were given one common number, followed by info that described the
thread diam and length of the plain shank and screws were given another,
followed again by the same sort of info, but was the total length of the
threaded portion and were then broken down into minute detail in the
standards books.

I'm with you on this one. However, in the same way that the
words uninterested and disinterested have been misunderstood and
misused, to the extent that they can no longer be used with any
certainty of communicating one's intent, knowing what is right no
longer seems to be enough.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:59:37 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Just talking from an engineering point of view, I
was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and
the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus
a thread.

AIUI, a bolt is intended to be held still while a nut is tightened on
to it (a bit like a stud), whereas a screw is intended to be rotated
into the nut (or casting, or whatever).

So I can follow this to the concept of a ship's propellor being called a
screw. But what about things like lead screws? (Leave the magazine out
of it... :-))

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:59:37 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Just talking from an engineering point of view, I was always taught
that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and the head and
that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus a thread.

AIUI, a bolt is intended to be held still while a nut is tightened on
to it (a bit like a stud), whereas a screw is intended to be rotated
into the nut (or casting, or whatever).

So I can follow this to the concept of a ship's propellor being called a
screw. But what about things like lead screws? (Leave the magazine out
of it... :-))

I think the bolt word comes from smooth sliding shafts, and the screw
from rotating spirals..

The problem comes when its both smooth and threaded.

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:59:37 +0000, Dave
wrote:


Just talking from an engineering point of view, I
was always taught that a bolt had a plain shank between the threads and
the head and that a screw was threaded all the way up to the head, minus
a thread.


AIUI, a bolt is intended to be held still while a nut is tightened on
to it (a bit like a stud), whereas a screw is intended to be rotated
into the nut (or casting, or whatever).

In an aircraft bolts (as I defined earlier) are used in sheer
conditions, so that there are no thread in the interface where the sheer
takes place, so as to maximize the strength of the shank.

I doubt that we will ever resolve this, because of the way engineers
have been brought up.

Dave

In article ,
Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost writes:

The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall
is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and
25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be
75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or
impact resistance.

I'm amazed 25mm mineral fibre would make any difference.
Is this just the loft insulation type stuff, or something
much denser?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost writes:
The only Building Regulations requirement for a non-loadbearing wall
is airborne sound insulation. One layer of 12mm p/bd each side and
25mm mineral fibre between the studs will suffice. The studs may be
75mm timber or 45mm metal. There's no requirements for robustness or
impact resistance.

I'm amazed 25mm mineral fibre would make any difference.
Is this just the loft insulation type stuff, or something
much denser?

Probably denser. The two sheets of plasterboard will do most of the
sound deadening: you normally then back that up with somethng to dampen
panel resonance that makes things sound 'boomy'