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Default Condensation, or water leak?

I had to visit a house today, as they had a water leak. Or rather, their
downstairs toilet keeps getting wet.

I had a quick look, expecting to find a dripping pipe, but couldnt see
any fault on the visible pipework.
The water is all over the toilet walls/ceiling downstairs, and has been
there for a while, as there is mushroom like growth on the ceiling.
Directly above is the upstairs toilet and sink. There were maybe 20
droplets in one corner of the room, and the rest of the room looked like
someone had just had a shower in it.
The outside wall is also wet from just below window height.
Unfortunately, upstairs is covered in laminate, so I couldnt take up the
flooring to see if one of the pipes is leaking from between the floor
onto the ceiling below.

I had a poke at the plaster ceiling, but it all seemed quite solid.
At the rear of the downstairs toilet is an unheated small room (3' sq.),
which has a slight dampness at the ceiling, but is otherwise dry.

My main thought was there must be a dripping pipe under the upstairs
floor.Though the ceiling doesnt look like it has had water running
through it.


My query-
Has anyone come across such a bad damp problem that has been caused by
condensation?
Am I missing something?
Thanks
Alan.
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Default Condensation, or water leak?

A.Lee wrote:
I had to visit a house today, as they had a water leak. Or rather,
their downstairs toilet keeps getting wet.

I had a quick look, expecting to find a dripping pipe, but couldnt see
any fault on the visible pipework.
The water is all over the toilet walls/ceiling downstairs, and has
been there for a while, as there is mushroom like growth on the
ceiling. Directly above is the upstairs toilet and sink. There were
maybe 20 droplets in one corner of the room, and the rest of the room
looked like someone had just had a shower in it.
The outside wall is also wet from just below window height.
Unfortunately, upstairs is covered in laminate, so I couldnt take up
the flooring to see if one of the pipes is leaking from between the
floor onto the ceiling below.

I had a poke at the plaster ceiling, but it all seemed quite solid.
At the rear of the downstairs toilet is an unheated small room (3'
sq.), which has a slight dampness at the ceiling, but is otherwise
dry.

My main thought was there must be a dripping pipe under the upstairs
floor.Though the ceiling doesnt look like it has had water running
through it.


My query-
Has anyone come across such a bad damp problem that has been caused by
condensation?
Am I missing something?
Thanks
Alan.


You are missing a leak.

Where can the water be condensing from for it to be condensation? - the
ceiling fungus alone is an obvious sign of water penetration....if the bog
isn't very big, it may be easier and cheaper to pull down the cieling in
there and replace that rather than mangle a good floor upstairs.
This is a good advert for not having upstairs bathroom floors tiled /
laminated etc.


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Default Condensation, or water leak?

Phil L wrote:

A.Lee wrote:
I had to visit a house today, as they had a water leak. Or rather,
their downstairs toilet keeps getting wet.


Where can the water be condensing from for it to be condensation? - the
ceiling fungus alone is an obvious sign of water penetration....if the bog
isn't very big, it may be easier and cheaper to pull down the cieling in
there and replace that rather than mangle a good floor upstairs.



Well, yes, I was going to pull down the ceiling to have a look, but I
need the owners go-ahead before I can do that.
I was pretty sure it was a leak, but had no way of finding out, as any
leak would be in the floor/ceiling void.
I do agree with you about the flooring - I wont be putting any more
laminate down in my house - I found out the hard way, needed a new TV
aerial plug in the bedroom, and of course, the cable runs in the void,
so no access to get at it under the laminate.
Alan.


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Default Condensation, or water leak?

A.Lee wrote:
Phil L wrote:

A.Lee wrote:
I had to visit a house today, as they had a water leak. Or rather,
their downstairs toilet keeps getting wet.


Where can the water be condensing from for it to be condensation? -
the ceiling fungus alone is an obvious sign of water
penetration....if the bog isn't very big, it may be easier and
cheaper to pull down the cieling in there and replace that rather
than mangle a good floor upstairs.



Well, yes, I was going to pull down the ceiling to have a look, but I
need the owners go-ahead before I can do that.
I was pretty sure it was a leak, but had no way of finding out, as any
leak would be in the floor/ceiling void.


Just tell them that you think there is a leak there as all signs point
towards that, and in any case, the fungus ceiling needs replacing anyway.
It obviously cannot stay as it is and something needs to be done, I assume
they've tried various heat / ventilation methods?


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Default Condensation, or water leak?

A.Lee wrote:
I had to visit a house today, as they had a water leak. Or rather,
their downstairs toilet keeps getting wet.

I had a quick look, expecting to find a dripping pipe, but couldnt see
any fault on the visible pipework.
The water is all over the toilet walls/ceiling downstairs, and has
been there for a while, as there is mushroom like growth on the
ceiling. Directly above is the upstairs toilet and sink. There were
maybe 20 droplets in one corner of the room, and the rest of the room
looked like someone had just had a shower in it.
The outside wall is also wet from just below window height.
Unfortunately, upstairs is covered in laminate, so I couldnt take up
the flooring to see if one of the pipes is leaking from between the
floor onto the ceiling below.

I had a poke at the plaster ceiling, but it all seemed quite solid.
At the rear of the downstairs toilet is an unheated small room (3'
sq.), which has a slight dampness at the ceiling, but is otherwise
dry.

My main thought was there must be a dripping pipe under the upstairs
floor.Though the ceiling doesnt look like it has had water running
through it.


My query-
Has anyone come across such a bad damp problem that has been caused by
condensation?
Am I missing something?
Thanks
Alan.


Alan,

As I have obviously not seen the job, I am going to ask some possibly silly
questions to try and get an idea of the situation - they are not in any
particular order and they may help you elaborate on the situation.

How old is the property?

Where are the soil stack runs?

What is the outside wall made of - brick, stone, cavity, solid - or is it a
prefabricated type of construction?

You say the "plaster" ceiling is solid, would that be plasterboard or lath
and plaster - or possibly even the old asbestos cement type of board.

Is the ceiling wet and crumbly on the edges against the outside wall?

You say that the walls are wet on the inside, is that wall facing into the
prevailing wet weather direction and is it wet only in one place or from
ceiling level down to the floor?

Is that particular room well heated or well ventilated with vents through
walls?

The reasons for the questions:

If there was a pipe leak above the ceiling, the plaster ceiling would feel
very soft and probably bulging and if there is a light fitting nearby, water
would possibly run down through that - unless the ceiling is of the asbestos
cement type board.

If the ceiling is crumbly only on the edge, it may indicate damp penetration
through a solid or through a blocked cavity wall.

If it's a cavity wall, and the soil stack is of asbestos cement or cast iron
(even plastic) there could be a leak where it passes through the wall and
dropping into the cavity onto the window lintel and soaking through the
internal skin - ditto if it's solid or stone but then the water would tend
to 'soak' down - possibly following cracks in the compo or black mortar
jointing.

A number of possible suggestions that may be near or very far away, but I
hope they will help.


BRG






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Default Condensation, or water leak?

BRG wrote:

A.Lee wrote:
I had to visit a house today, as they had a water leak. Or rather,
their downstairs toilet keeps getting wet.


How old is the property?
Where are the soil stack runs?


1940's, directly where the leaks are, though the mains pipes also run
along that wall.

What is the outside wall made of - brick, stone, cavity, solid - or is it a
prefabricated type of construction?


Double brick with cavity

You say the "plaster" ceiling is solid, would that be plasterboard or lath
and plaster - or possibly even the old asbestos cement type of board.


I think it is pasterboard, though am not sure.

Is the ceiling wet and crumbly on the edges against the outside wall?


Not particularly - I stuck a screwdriver into it, expecting it to go
through, but it was quite solid.

You say that the walls are wet on the inside, is that wall facing into the
prevailing wet weather direction and is it wet only in one place or from
ceiling level down to the floor?


No, only wet on the bottom corner,up around 3 feet, right where the soil
stack enters the ground.

Is that particular room well heated or well ventilated with vents through
walls?


No heat, but they say they keep the small window open regularly.

If it's a cavity wall, and the soil stack is of asbestos cement or cast iron
(even plastic) there could be a leak where it passes through the wall and
dropping into the cavity onto the window lintel and soaking through the
internal skin - ditto if it's solid or stone but then the water would tend
to 'soak' down - possibly following cracks in the compo or black mortar
jointing.


It is cast iron, and I also suspected it was leaking in the cavity, as
the wall where it enters the ground is thoroughly soaked.
I've just sent off an email to the owner (in California), to see how
they want me to proceed, i told them I cannot do a thing until I have
pulled down the ceiling to inspect the pipework.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Alan.

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Default Condensation, or water leak?

A.Lee wrote:
BRG wrote:

A.Lee wrote:
I had to visit a house today, as they had a water leak. Or rather,
their downstairs toilet keeps getting wet.


How old is the property?
Where are the soil stack runs?


1940's, directly where the leaks are, though the mains pipes also run
along that wall.

What is the outside wall made of - brick, stone, cavity, solid - or
is it a prefabricated type of construction?


Double brick with cavity

You say the "plaster" ceiling is solid, would that be plasterboard
or lath and plaster - or possibly even the old asbestos cement type
of board.


I think it is pasterboard, though am not sure.

Is the ceiling wet and crumbly on the edges against the outside wall?


Not particularly - I stuck a screwdriver into it, expecting it to go
through, but it was quite solid.

You say that the walls are wet on the inside, is that wall facing
into the prevailing wet weather direction and is it wet only in one
place or from ceiling level down to the floor?


No, only wet on the bottom corner,up around 3 feet, right where the
soil stack enters the ground.

Is that particular room well heated or well ventilated with vents
through walls?


No heat, but they say they keep the small window open regularly.

If it's a cavity wall, and the soil stack is of asbestos cement or
cast iron (even plastic) there could be a leak where it passes
through the wall and dropping into the cavity onto the window lintel
and soaking through the internal skin - ditto if it's solid or stone
but then the water would tend to 'soak' down - possibly following
cracks in the compo or black mortar jointing.


It is cast iron, and I also suspected it was leaking in the cavity, as
the wall where it enters the ground is thoroughly soaked.
I've just sent off an email to the owner (in California), to see how
they want me to proceed, i told them I cannot do a thing until I have
pulled down the ceiling to inspect the pipework.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Alan.


Problems like that are a bitch to identify Allan and the best of luck to
you.


BRG


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Default Condensation, or water leak?

Hi
Just to add another track to take ,whilst I think BRG is on the right track
I recal a similar thing in a terraced house with 3 layers of 'Lino' on the
bathroom floor .Turns out the family had 3 active kids who were bathed most
nights and mum used a jug to wash them ,when she left them alone water
fights started and the water ran to the edge of the flooring and ran through
the edges of the room running down the walls of the toilet below also
finding its way into the cavity by way of the exiting pipework AND
electrical cables.( Yes it was wired in the cavity common then )

HTH
CJ


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Default Condensation, or water leak?

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:08:38 +0000, A.Lee wrote:

Has anyone come across such a bad damp problem that has been caused by
condensation?


I've certainly seen walls running with condensation but that is normally
under extreme provocation like in a bathroom after a shower or bath or
close by but it normally doesn't last long on the walls. Another good form
of provocation is the venting of a tumble drier into the space rather than
outside.

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Dave. pam is missing e-mail



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Default Condensation, or water leak?

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:08:38 +0000, A.Lee wrote:

Has anyone come across such a bad damp problem that has been caused
by condensation?


I've certainly seen walls running with condensation but that is
normally under extreme provocation like in a bathroom after a shower
or bath or close by but it normally doesn't last long on the walls.
Another good form of provocation is the venting of a tumble drier
into the space rather than outside.


The OP refered to it as a 'donstairs toilet'. I assumed it didn't have a
bath or shower?


--
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www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257





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Default Condensation, or water leak?

On 28 Jan, 22:28, "Phil L" wrote:
A.Lee wrote:
Phil L wrote:


A.Lee wrote:
I had to visit a house today, as they had a water leak. Or rather,
their downstairs toilet keeps getting wet.


Where can the water be condensing from for it to be condensation? -
the ceiling fungus alone is an obvious sign of water
penetration....if the bog isn't very big, it may be easier and
cheaper to pull down the cieling in there and replace that rather
than mangle a good floor upstairs.


Well, yes, I was going to pull down the ceiling to have a look, but I
need the owners go-ahead before I can do that.
I was pretty sure it was a leak, but had no way of finding out, as any
leak would be in the floor/ceiling void.


Just tell them that you think there is a leak there as all signs point
towards that, and in any case, the fungus ceiling needs replacing anyway.
It obviously cannot stay as it is and something needs to be done, I assume
they've tried various heat / ventilation methods?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Fungus = ceiling needs replacing in not necessarily the case

I suggest for and INITIAL view you use an endoscope or small hole
torch and mirror
Small hole(s) can be done with, say, 2" hole cutter (keep the plug if
poss)
Identify source and fix it with or (possibly) without) removal
IF fungus is Pezziza or similar plaster fungus (as is likely) then
plaster removal can be limited to what is necessary to fix leak and
dry out structure
Of course it may be simplest to knock down the lot but without
seeing.... difficult to say
Chris
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