[Nick Challoner]

I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?). Only now it's
stopped doing so and doesn't open at all during the cycle. I cleaned
around the door removing what little powder gunge there was, but it's
still not opening. Any ideas how to fix please?

TIA...Nick.


--
Nick Challoner
Aviation photography: http://www.challoner.com/aviation
Toyota MR2 Mk1 info: http://www.challoner.com/mr2
Remove rubbish to email

[Si[_2_]]

In message , Nick Challoner
writes
I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?). Only now it's
stopped doing so and doesn't open at all during the cycle. I cleaned
around the door removing what little powder gunge there was, but it's
still not opening. Any ideas how to fix please?

Not hi-jacking but adding to the thread, I also have a Bosch dishwasher
powder compartment problem but in my case the sliding door is
increasingly unwilling to stay closed & frequently opens as the main
door clicks shut and throws the tablet onto the floor of the dishwasher
underneath the lower basket.

I've assumed so far that the answer will be to replace the mechanism
(presumably involves taking the front of the door off - is replacement
possible/easy?) but it hasn't got to the point where I need to fix it
yet.

Is this mechanism really necessary? Could the tablet not just be left
sitting on top of something in the top basket?

--
Si

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:59:16 UTC, Nick Challoner
wrote:

I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?). Only now it's
stopped doing so and doesn't open at all during the cycle. I cleaned
around the door removing what little powder gunge there was, but it's
still not opening. Any ideas how to fix please?

I've had intermittent problems with our, and concluded it was the way we
shut the cover! But if yours doesn't work at all, I suspect the solenoid
has stuck or failed.

You need to (having unplugged from mains) remove the inner side of the
door. All will be exposed to view, and you can check/test/clean as
appropriate.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[Mike Barnes]

In uk.d-i-y, Nick Challoner wrote:
I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?).

If your Bosch is anything like ours, the "appropriate point in the
cleaning cycle" is right at the beginning. I wouldn't bother fixing that
problem, I'd just leave the compartment open. You could try it and see
if it makes any difference to the cleaning performance.

--
Mike Barnes

[Vass[_2_]]

"Nick Challoner" wrote in was, but it's
still not opening. Any ideas how to fix please?

not based on heat
mine fills, ejects tab, starts
just chuck it in the bottom and forget the little door
--
Vass

[Lobster]

Nick Challoner wrote:
I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?). Only now it's
stopped doing so and doesn't open at all during the cycle. I cleaned
around the door removing what little powder gunge there was, but it's
still not opening. Any ideas how to fix please?

Can you open it manually (with the little sliding catch at one end) or
is that stuck too?

S'funny - I have the identical model, and just this week the soap
dispenser has also given up the ghost - only with a different failure
mode: instead of sliding, the cover tends to just fall off forwards
because the two lugs which locate in the groove have become worn.

Haven't dared check what a replacement will cost; plus it looks like it
will be a pig of a job to change. (Maybe we should come to a deal over
spare components of our faulty dispensers! :-) )

David

[Ageless]

"Si" $3o&m wrote in message
...

Not hi-jacking but adding to the thread, I also have a Bosch dishwasher
powder compartment problem but in my case the sliding door is increasingly
unwilling to stay closed & frequently opens as the main door clicks shut
and throws the tablet onto the floor of the dishwasher underneath the
lower basket.

I've assumed so far that the answer will be to replace the mechanism
(presumably involves taking the front of the door off - is replacement
possible/easy?) but it hasn't got to the point where I need to fix it yet.

Is this mechanism really necessary? Could the tablet not just be left
sitting on top of something in the top basket?


having just bought a bosch dishwasher I was interested to note that the
mechanism to release the powder/tablet is identical to the one in our 10
year old hotpoint (dead), this one was replaced under warranty after 4 years
FOC (hotpoint man had to call to sort out our new washer/dryer) so no call
out charge, 3 years later it started playing up again(as the door was shut)
and for the last 3 years we put the tablet on the corner the cutlery tray -
this seemed to work quite well, I assume that the water spray knocked it in
to the base where it was meant to go

[EricP]

On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:59:16 GMT, Nick Challoner
wrote:

I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?). Only now it's
stopped doing so and doesn't open at all during the cycle. I cleaned
around the door removing what little powder gunge there was, but it's
still not opening. Any ideas how to fix please?

TIA...Nick.

Try spraying a bit of WD40 in the crack by the arrow and ribbing on
the door. It's probably got crap on the sliding mechanism from the
modern all-in-one tablets.

[Lobster]

Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Nick Challoner wrote:
I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?).

If your Bosch is anything like ours, the "appropriate point in the
cleaning cycle" is right at the beginning.

Dunno about that - on ours you can hear the clunk of it opening about 5
mins after you switch on. Not sure what goes on during that time -
prewash/preheat or something? Does it drain (and take out soapy water
if the soap has been discharged?)

The compartment/cover is quite a complex bit of gubbins - would they
really have fitted it if it was totally superfluous?

I wouldn't bother
fixing that
problem, I'd just leave the compartment open. You could try it and see
if it makes any difference to the cleaning performance.

Gotta be worth a go!

David

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 18:34:44 UTC, Lobster
wrote:

Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Nick Challoner wrote:
I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?).

If your Bosch is anything like ours, the "appropriate point in the
cleaning cycle" is right at the beginning.

Dunno about that - on ours you can hear the clunk of it opening about 5
mins after you switch on. Not sure what goes on during that time -
prewash/preheat or something? Does it drain (and take out soapy water
if the soap has been discharged?)

The compartment/cover is quite a complex bit of gubbins - would they
really have fitted it if it was totally superfluous?

I always thought it did a pre-rinse first, then pumped and refilled,
then dropped the powder in.

We don't use tablets as they're expensive and unnecessary IMO. Salt is
cheap in bulk, and powder is too (in bulk from CPC!)

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[Mike Lane]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 18:25:37 +0100, Si wrote
(in article ):

Is this mechanism really necessary? Could the tablet not just be left
sitting on top of something in the top basket?

I think on my Bosch, it does a cold rinse first (presumably to get rid of all
the water-soluble gunk) and then the hot cycle when the powder compartment
opens. So I think if you just placed the tablet in the main wash area most of
it would get washed away in the first cycle.

--
Mike Lane (UK North Yorkshire)
To contact me replace invalid with mike underscore lane

[Derek Geldard]

On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:59:16 GMT, Nick Challoner
wrote:

I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?). Only now it's
stopped doing so and doesn't open at all during the cycle. I cleaned
around the door removing what little powder gunge there was, but it's
still not opening. Any ideas how to fix please?


I'd be surprised if it is not opened by a big resistor heating up a
bi-metallic strip which bends after a suitable delay and releases the
catch. If it's stopped either the resistor has gone O/C, or it's not
getting energised, or there's a mechanical problem.

Can't you just chuck the tablet(s) in the bottom of the dishwasher
nowadays?

DG

[Derek Geldard]

On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 18:34:44 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

The compartment/cover is quite a complex bit of gubbins - would they
really have fitted it if it was totally superfluous?


It was invented in the days when dishwasher dertergents were powders
and if the powder was just put into to the wash compartment it would
have gone down the drain before the main wash started if the machine
did a pre-wash or rinse.

The first machine we had had a compartment for detergent for the main
wash, but the detergent for the pre-wash was just put in a pile on the
inside of the door near the bottom.

I believe today the tablets we have dissolve at a controlled rate so
they can do pre-wash, main wash, and rinse all in one tablet. Whilst
softening the water at the same time. :-)

DG

[Si[_2_]]

In message , Derek Geldard
writes
On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 18:34:44 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

The compartment/cover is quite a complex bit of gubbins - would they
really have fitted it if it was totally superfluous?


It was invented in the days when dishwasher dertergents were powders
and if the powder was just put into to the wash compartment it would
have gone down the drain before the main wash started if the machine
did a pre-wash or rinse.

The first machine we had had a compartment for detergent for the main
wash, but the detergent for the pre-wash was just put in a pile on the
inside of the door near the bottom.

I believe today the tablets we have dissolve at a controlled rate so
they can do pre-wash, main wash, and rinse all in one tablet. Whilst
softening the water at the same time. :-)

That accords with my experience. I accidentally let the machine run a
Pre-Wash having put a tablet in. The tablet had been released and was
sitting on the bottom, minimally corroded.

--
Si

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 19:14:15 UTC, Derek Geldard
wrote:

I'd be surprised if it is not opened by a big resistor heating up a
bi-metallic strip which bends after a suitable delay and releases the
catch.

I'd be surprised if it were. As I recall, it's a solenoid. It's marked
as a small rectangular 'box' called 'actuator' in the spares list -
about 8 quid. The entire dispenser is about 40 quid. This is for my
Bosch - 7 years old - YMMV.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[Nick Challoner]

On 5 Oct 2007 17:34:22 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

I've had intermittent problems with our, and concluded it was the way we
shut the cover! But if yours doesn't work at all, I suspect the solenoid
has stuck or failed.

You need to (having unplugged from mains) remove the inner side of the
door. All will be exposed to view, and you can check/test/clean as
appropriate.

Ahh, ok I'll try dismantling the door. I've had success fixing washing
machines and tumble dryers in the past, but the dishwasher looks quite
tricky to get into (especially as it's a build-in model with matching
kitchen door and draw-front attached to the front of it :-|

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions, this is such a good group.

I do want to fix it, because rightly or wrongly I like to use seperate
powder, rinse-aid and salt rather than tablets (rightly I'm sure in
the case of the salt, less so perhaps for the powder and rinse aid). I
did think of just bunging the powder in at the start, but the two
programs I use most (the 65deg C ones) have a pre-wash first which
obviously drains before the wash cycle, so obviously most of the
powder would disappear at that point. Interesting to hear the tablets
would survive the pre-wash, but I don't mind trying to fix it (or even
getting a pro in if not) because other than this it's been trouble
free for 7 years and I expect it to carry on for a good few years yet.

....Nick.

PS Lobster I'll be in touch if there's anything salvageable!

--
Nick Challoner
Aviation photography: http://www.challoner.com/aviation
Toyota MR2 Mk1 info: http://www.challoner.com/mr2
Remove rubbish to email

[CJF]

I'd be surprised if it were. As I recall, it's a solenoid. It's marked
as a small rectangular 'box' called 'actuator' in the spares list -
about 8 quid. The entire dispenser is about 40 quid. This is for my
Bosch - 7 years old - YMMV.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

It's actually quite easy to change the dispenser mechanism in fact, if
that's what you chose to do.

Usual warning - mains unplugged and off, and don't do this if you are not
confidant with disconnecting/reconnecting internal mains connections in the
machine.

Remove all the (mostly torx) screws around the edge of the door - looking
out for the less obvious ones around the hinge. The outside of the door is
now detached - watch for cabling, and disconnect as appropriate.. The inner
door with the weight of the outer removed is not now balanced, and is quite
flimsy, and waves in the breeze....

The dispenser is held in by a stainless clip device at the rear of the inner
door - replacement is via the same, and take care with the gasket to get a
good seal. Getting the clip back on was the hardest part of the exercise.
Replace the electrical connections, and outer door - all done.

Prices for the complete dispenser seem to vary a lot - between £40 and £80 a
couple of years ago, so look around first. I could not find separate parts
for the mechanism, so replacing the whole unit seems the only real option.

Charles F

[Si[_2_]]

In message , Huge
writes
On 2007-10-05, Nick Challoner wrote:
I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?). Only now it's
stopped doing so and doesn't open at all during the cycle. I cleaned
around the door removing what little powder gunge there was, but it's
still not opening. Any ideas how to fix please?

I repaced the powder tray on ours. Take the front cover off and the tray clips
through the inner shell - it's obvious once you've got the cover off. Get the
right tray; there are vented and unvented types - again it's obvious which one
you need once you've got the cover off.

Thanks for the info Huge.

Where did you get the replacement tray from?

--
Si

[Lobster]

Huge wrote:
On 2007-10-06, Si $3o&m wrote:
In message , Huge
writes
On 2007-10-05, Nick Challoner wrote:
I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?). Only now it's
stopped doing so and doesn't open at all during the cycle. I cleaned
around the door removing what little powder gunge there was, but it's
still not opening. Any ideas how to fix please?
I repaced the powder tray on ours. Take the front cover off and the tray clips
through the inner shell - it's obvious once you've got the cover off. Get the
right tray; there are vented and unvented types - again it's obvious which one
you need once you've got the cover off.

Thanks for the info Huge.

Where did you get the replacement tray from?

Fenny Appliances in Milton Keynes.


If you go to the official Bosch spares site at
https://portal.bsh-partner.com/portal(bD1lbiZjPTAwOQ==)/PORTALFRAME.HTM
if you enter the model no, it gives you an exploded view of all the
parts, plus parts list and you can order them direct online

David

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 06:50:36 UTC, "CJF"
wrote:

I'd be surprised if it were. As I recall, it's a solenoid. It's marked
as a small rectangular 'box' called 'actuator' in the spares list -
about 8 quid. The entire dispenser is about 40 quid. This is for my
Bosch - 7 years old - YMMV.

It's actually quite easy to change the dispenser mechanism in fact, if
that's what you chose to do.

I didn't say it wasn't, to be fair. Looked easy to me, anyway.

Usual warning - mains unplugged and off, and don't do this if you are not
confidant with disconnecting/reconnecting internal mains connections in the
machine.

Remove all the (mostly torx) screws around the edge of the door - looking
out for the less obvious ones around the hinge. The outside of the door is
now detached - watch for cabling, and disconnect as appropriate.. The inner
door with the weight of the outer removed is not now balanced, and is quite
flimsy, and waves in the breeze....

The dispenser is held in by a stainless clip device at the rear of the inner
door - replacement is via the same, and take care with the gasket to get a
good seal. Getting the clip back on was the hardest part of the exercise.
Replace the electrical connections, and outer door - all done.

Prices for the complete dispenser seem to vary a lot - between £40 and £80 a
couple of years ago, so look around first.

£40 from the Bosch spares division.

I could not find separate parts
for the mechanism, so replacing the whole unit seems the only real option.

Bosch spares division; prices as I stated.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[Si[_2_]]

In message , Lobster
writes
Huge wrote:
On 2007-10-06, Si $3o&m wrote:
In message , Huge
writes
On 2007-10-05, Nick Challoner wrote:
I have a problem with our Bosch SHV4313GB/17 dishwasher that I was
wondering if anybody knows how to fix please. It's 7 years old and up
until now has always worked well. The problem is with the sliding door
of the powder/tablet compartment. Like many Bosch and similar models,
this is spring loaded and is supposed to spring open at the
appropriate point in the cleaning cycle (presumably due to the hot
water expanding the plastic and releasing the catch?). Only now it's
stopped doing so and doesn't open at all during the cycle. I cleaned
around the door removing what little powder gunge there was, but it's
still not opening. Any ideas how to fix please?
I repaced the powder tray on ours. Take the front cover off and the
tray clips
through the inner shell - it's obvious once you've got the cover
off. Get the
right tray; there are vented and unvented types - again it's
obvious which one
you need once you've got the cover off.

Thanks for the info Huge.

Where did you get the replacement tray from?
Fenny Appliances in Milton Keynes.

If you go to the official Bosch spares site at
https://portal.bsh-partner.com/portal(bD1lbiZjPTAwOQ==)/PORTALFRAME.HTM

hmmm - that link throws back "No correct login".

But going to https://portal.bsh-partner.com gives this rather detailed
page...

quote
Your request was blocked!
This may have happened for one of the following reasons:
Cookies are not allowed in your browser.
JavaScript is not enabled in your browser.
You manually typed a non existent URL.
You attempted to access this page via a bookmark.
You attempted to access an outdated page, or the page is cached on your
browser. Try pressing Back and then hold down the Shift key while
pressing the Reload button to reload the page.
You have entered an illegal or too many characters to a form.
Your session was idle for too long. (Timeout)
You chose not to repost form data. If you are asked whether to repost
form data please answer Yes.
If this doesn't fix the problem please re-enter the application by going
back to our home page.
Please contact the administrator if the problem is permanently.
/quote

if you enter the model no, it gives you an exploded view of all the
parts, plus parts list and you can order them direct online

I guess I go to the Bosch Uk site and follow links from there. I'm
nowhere near the roundabout town.

--
Si

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 20:13:13 UTC, Si $3o&m wrote:

I guess I go to the Bosch Uk site and follow links from there. I'm
nowhere near the roundabout town.

I just use:

http://www.bshappliancecare.com/bshspares.html

--
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poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[Lobster]

Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 20:13:13 UTC, Si $3o&m wrote:

I guess I go to the Bosch Uk site and follow links from there. I'm
nowhere near the roundabout town.

I just use:

http://www.bshappliancecare.com/bshspares.html

Yes that ultimately takes you to the same place as my link was supposed
to (ie the "Quickfinder" application)

David

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 08:35:25 UTC, Lobster
wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 20:13:13 UTC, Si $3o&m wrote:

I guess I go to the Bosch Uk site and follow links from there. I'm
nowhere near the roundabout town.

I just use:

http://www.bshappliancecare.com/bshspares.html

Yes that ultimately takes you to the same place as my link was supposed
to (ie the "Quickfinder" application)

I realise that, but wondered if it might eliminate the error that was
reported.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[Mike Barnes]

In uk.d-i-y, Derek Geldard wrote:
It was invented in the days when dishwasher dertergents were powders

In this house dishwasher detergents still are powders. I see those boxes
of tablets at several times the price of powders and wonder why anybody
buys them.

--
Mike Barnes

[Si[_2_]]

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, Derek Geldard wrote:
It was invented in the days when dishwasher dertergents were powders

In this house dishwasher detergents still are powders. I see those boxes
of tablets at several times the price of powders and wonder why anybody
buys them.

I only buy them when they're BOGOF.

--
Si

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 21:02:24 UTC, Si $3o&m wrote:

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, Derek Geldard wrote:
It was invented in the days when dishwasher dertergents were powders

In this house dishwasher detergents still are powders. I see those boxes
of tablets at several times the price of powders and wonder why anybody
buys them.

I only buy them when they're BOGOF.

I buy powder (industrial strength) for about 2 quid a kilogram.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[Si[_2_]]

In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 21:02:24 UTC, Si $3o&m wrote:

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, Derek Geldard wrote:
It was invented in the days when dishwasher dertergents were powders

In this house dishwasher detergents still are powders. I see those boxes
of tablets at several times the price of powders and wonder why anybody
buys them.

I only buy them when they're BOGOF.

I buy powder (industrial strength) for about 2 quid a kilogram.

Where from? We wouldn't need anything with salt in as we've got a
softener. (Problem here is that SWMBO is emphatic about using the main
brand name.

--
Si

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 21:21:52 UTC, Si $3o&m wrote:

I buy powder (industrial strength) for about 2 quid a kilogram.

Where from? We wouldn't need anything with salt in as we've got a
softener. (Problem here is that SWMBO is emphatic about using the main
brand name.

CPC!

http://www.cpc.co.uk

Of course, there's a min order charge but then I buy from them all the
time.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[Mike Barnes]

In uk.d-i-y, Si wrote:
In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 21:02:24 UTC, Si $3o&m wrote:

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, Derek Geldard wrote:
It was invented in the days when dishwasher dertergents were powders

In this house dishwasher detergents still are powders. I see those boxes
of tablets at several times the price of powders and wonder why anybody
buys them.

I only buy them when they're BOGOF.

I buy powder (industrial strength) for about 2 quid a kilogram.

Where from? We wouldn't need anything with salt in as we've got a
softener.

Sainsbury's online has own-brand powder at £5.49 for 3 kg, which works
out at 4.5p per 25g dose. The cheapest tablet (Finish All In One x42
Introductory offer £5.00) works out at 11p per dose: nearly two and half
times as much.

(Problem here is that SWMBO is emphatic about using the main brand
name.

That's a bit of a problem: I don't think the leading brands *do* powder
any more (not enough money in it), so you can't even buy a container of
(say) Finish powder for refilling with Sainsbury's.

--
Mike Barnes

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-10-07 23:24:12 +0100, Mike Barnes said:

Sainsbury's online has own-brand powder at £5.49 for 3 kg, which works
out at 4.5p per 25g dose. The cheapest tablet (Finish All In One x42
Introductory offer £5.00) works out at 11p per dose: nearly two and half
times as much.


To make a fair comparison, one would also have to include the costs of
rinse aid and salt, although the cost of the latter is not significant
unless you buy the small packages of dishwasher salt rather than 25kg
bags. Finish Rinse Aid at £1.70 for 250ml. If that covers 50 washes,
which is generous, that's another 3.5p per wash, plus salt, say 4p.
So really the comparison is more like 9p vs 11p.

Don't forget also that there's around 10-15p in electricity cost per
cycle as well plus depreciation (average £400/5 yr/1 load a day) = 33p
a wash.

Then the saving is really 2p in 44p or about 4.5%.

Ergo, if you really want to save money, the way to do it is not to have
a dishwasher at all.

[Pete C]

Hi,

If not washing anything aluminium/zinc/diecast, a teaspoon of washing
soda and a /small/amount of dish detergent might do a good enough job.
The glycerine in the detegent will do away with the need for a rinse
aid.

To protect ali/zinc a small amount of sodium silicate is needed.

cheers,
Pete.

[Mike Barnes]

In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-10-07 23:24:12 +0100, Mike Barnes said:
Sainsbury's online has own-brand powder at £5.49 for 3 kg, which
works
out at 4.5p per 25g dose. The cheapest tablet (Finish All In One x42
Introductory offer £5.00) works out at 11p per dose: nearly two and half
times as much.


To make a fair comparison, one would also have to include the costs of
rinse aid and salt, although the cost of the latter is not significant
unless you buy the small packages of dishwasher salt rather than 25kg
bags. Finish Rinse Aid at £1.70 for 250ml. If that covers 50 washes,
which is generous, that's another 3.5p per wash, plus salt, say 4p.
So really the comparison is more like 9p vs 11p.

To make a fair comparison you should do the same as I did and look for
the cheapest at Sainsbury's online shop. There you'll find Sainsbury's
rinse aid at less than half the price you quote: £1.52 for 500 ml.

My calculation reflected our actual usage. My impression was that rinse
aid was a negligible cost, as we get through probably less than a bottle
a year. Mind you, I suspect that sometimes we simply don't notice that
it's empty (or to be more accurate *I* don't notice: I don't think SWMBO
has ever filled it), but one bottle a year is a generous estimate of
what we actually get through.

And we've never used any salt, ever.

So make that 0.5p for rinse aid and (no) salt: now 5p vs 11p.

Obviously the figures depend on the water type. We have very soft water,
so we don't need much powder or rinse aid, and no salt. So I suspect
people are wasting more money around here, where the tablets contain
lots of stuff that simply isn't needed, than they are in many other
parts of the country.

Don't forget also that there's around 10-15p in electricity cost per

That's about right: 13p by my calculations.

cycle as well plus depreciation (average £400/5 yr/1 load a day) = 33p
a wash.

Our Bosch cost £379 in 1996 and has never put a foot wrong: about 9p per
load, and falling. [Crosses fingers]

Then the saving is really 2p in 44p or about 4.5%.

Well, every little bit helps. For us I make that a saving of 6p out of
33p, which is about 18%.

Ergo, if you really want to save money, the way to do it is not to have
a dishwasher at all.

Nice try :-), but I'm talking about saving money without putting
yourself to significant extra trouble, and without reducing the hygiene
level.


Don't get me wrong, I'm no penny-pincher. Far from it. But when I see
new alternatives to products that I'm perfectly happy with, I can't help
looking to see what the benefit is, if any. And with dishwasher tablets,
I just don't get it.

--
Mike Barnes

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-10-08 10:54:31 +0100, Huge said:

On 2007-10-08, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-10-07 23:24:12 +0100, Mike Barnes said:

Sainsbury's online has own-brand powder at £5.49 for 3 kg, which works
out at 4.5p per 25g dose. The cheapest tablet (Finish All In One x42
Introductory offer £5.00) works out at 11p per dose: nearly two and half
times as much.


To make a fair comparison, one would also have to include the costs of
rinse aid and salt, although the cost of the latter is not significant
unless you buy the small packages of dishwasher salt rather than 25kg
bags. Finish Rinse Aid at £1.70 for 250ml. If that covers 50 washes,
which is generous, that's another 3.5p per wash, plus salt, say 4p.
So really the comparison is more like 9p vs 11p.

Don't forget also that there's around 10-15p in electricity cost per
cycle as well plus depreciation (average £400/5 yr/1 load a day) = 33p
a wash.

Then the saving is really 2p in 44p or about 4.5%.

Ergo, if you really want to save money, the way to do it is not to have
a dishwasher at all.

Tsk. I'd have thought that you were the last person to ignore the elephant in
the kitchen; the cost of your time. )

All accounted for. Why do brides wear white?

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-10-08 11:00:25 +0100, Mike Barnes said:

In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-10-07 23:24:12 +0100, Mike Barnes said:
Sainsbury's online has own-brand powder at £5.49 for 3 kg, which
works
out at 4.5p per 25g dose. The cheapest tablet (Finish All In One x42
Introductory offer £5.00) works out at 11p per dose: nearly two and half
times as much.


To make a fair comparison, one would also have to include the costs of
rinse aid and salt, although the cost of the latter is not significant
unless you buy the small packages of dishwasher salt rather than 25kg
bags. Finish Rinse Aid at £1.70 for 250ml. If that covers 50 washes,
which is generous, that's another 3.5p per wash, plus salt, say 4p.
So really the comparison is more like 9p vs 11p.

To make a fair comparison you should do the same as I did and look for
the cheapest at Sainsbury's online shop. There you'll find Sainsbury's
rinse aid at less than half the price you quote: £1.52 for 500 ml.

My calculation reflected our actual usage. My impression was that rinse
aid was a negligible cost, as we get through probably less than a bottle
a year. Mind you, I suspect that sometimes we simply don't notice that
it's empty (or to be more accurate *I* don't notice: I don't think SWMBO
has ever filled it), but one bottle a year is a generous estimate of
what we actually get through.

Yes, I wasn't trying to be accurate here, only to point out that there
is a cost and it's not negligible.




And we've never used any salt, ever.

So make that 0.5p for rinse aid and (no) salt: now 5p vs 11p.

Obviously the figures depend on the water type. We have very soft water,
so we don't need much powder or rinse aid, and no salt. So I suspect
people are wasting more money around here, where the tablets contain
lots of stuff that simply isn't needed, than they are in many other
parts of the country.

Don't forget also that there's around 10-15p in electricity cost per

That's about right: 13p by my calculations.

cycle as well plus depreciation (average £400/5 yr/1 load a day) = 33p
a wash.

Our Bosch cost £379 in 1996 and has never put a foot wrong: about 9p per
load, and falling. [Crosses fingers]

Then the saving is really 2p in 44p or about 4.5%.

Well, every little bit helps. For us I make that a saving of 6p out of
33p, which is about 18%.

Ergo, if you really want to save money, the way to do it is not to have
a dishwasher at all.

Nice try :-), but I'm talking about saving money without putting
yourself to significant extra trouble, and without reducing the hygiene
level.


Don't get me wrong, I'm no penny-pincher. Far from it. But when I see
new alternatives to products that I'm perfectly happy with, I can't help
looking to see what the benefit is, if any. And with dishwasher tablets,
I just don't get it.

Convenience. One thing to put in and forget about it.

[Si[_2_]]

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, Si wrote:
In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 21:02:24 UTC, Si $3o&m wrote:

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, Derek Geldard wrote:
It was invented in the days when dishwasher dertergents were powders

In this house dishwasher detergents still are powders. I see those boxes
of tablets at several times the price of powders and wonder why anybody
buys them.

I only buy them when they're BOGOF.

I buy powder (industrial strength) for about 2 quid a kilogram.

Where from? We wouldn't need anything with salt in as we've got a
softener.

Sainsbury's online has own-brand powder at £5.49 for 3 kg, which works
out at 4.5p per 25g dose. The cheapest tablet (Finish All In One x42
Introductory offer £5.00) works out at 11p per dose: nearly two and half
times as much.

hmmm

(Problem here is that SWMBO is emphatic about using the main brand
name.

That's a bit of a problem: I don't think the leading brands *do* powder
any more (not enough money in it), so you can't even buy a container of
(say) Finish powder for refilling with Sainsbury's.


....works with clothes washing stuff tho' ;-)

--
Si

[Si[_2_]]

In message , Andy Hall writes
Ergo, if you really want to save money, the way to do it is not to
have
a dishwasher at all.
Tsk. I'd have thought that you were the last person to ignore the
elephant in
the kitchen; the cost of your time. )

All accounted for. Why do brides wear white?

to emphasise their innate purity in comparison with the ignorant brute
they are marrying?

--
Si

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-10-08 16:22:38 +0100, Si $3o&m said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
Ergo, if you really want to save money, the way to do it is not to have
a dishwasher at all.
Tsk. I'd have thought that you were the last person to ignore the elephant in
the kitchen; the cost of your time. )

All accounted for. Why do brides wear white?

to emphasise their innate purity in comparison with the ignorant brute
they are marrying?

Err.. yes.... something like that. At least that's what she told me to say.

[Derek Geldard]

On 5 Oct 2007 20:42:47 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 19:14:15 UTC, Derek Geldard
wrote:

I'd be surprised if it is not opened by a big resistor heating up a
bi-metallic strip which bends after a suitable delay and releases the
catch.

I'd be surprised if it were. As I recall, it's a solenoid. It's marked
as a small rectangular 'box' called 'actuator' in the spares list -
about 8 quid. The entire dispenser is about 40 quid. This is for my
Bosch - 7 years old - YMMV.

Believe it or not I run 2 Bosch dishwashers plumbed in and running,
the latest came "Free" with a new kitchen. The older one, installed in
a utility room is probably 10+ years old and comes in handy at
Christmas and birthday parties.

At some time (many moons ago) on the then current dishwasher the
detergent dispenser door started refusing to latch closed because a
little plastic "snib" had worn away/broken off. The whole assembly had
to be changed, this did have the large wirewound china resistor
arrangement I described. Whether it was the oldest Bosch or an even
earlier predecessor machine of unknown provenance I cannot at this
stage recall.

However, if a part is represented on a circuit diagram as rectangular
box, and described as an actuator I am inclined to believe that no
more precise concise description exists. This would be the case for
the heating element / bimetallic strip arrangement, but not so in the
case of an electromagnet, which could just be described as a
"Detergent door solenoid" and shown on the diagram as a coil. The
resistor contraption has some advantages in that it has an inherent
delay that can to a certain extent be set at the design stage thus
eliminating the need to cater for this in the programmer. Note that
the rinse aid dispenser is always IME a solenoid.

AIUI there are only two or three manufacturers of dishwashers in
Europe. You can see this just by walking round a showroom, and
companies affix their own badges, so what you actually get (and how it
works) at any one time may vary.

I see on some of the parts websites that Bosch seems to share parts
with Neff and Zannussi.

DG

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:58:23 UTC, Derek Geldard
wrote:

On 5 Oct 2007 20:42:47 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 19:14:15 UTC, Derek Geldard
wrote:

I'd be surprised if it is not opened by a big resistor heating up a
bi-metallic strip which bends after a suitable delay and releases the
catch.

I'd be surprised if it were. As I recall, it's a solenoid. It's marked
as a small rectangular 'box' called 'actuator' in the spares list -
about 8 quid. The entire dispenser is about 40 quid. This is for my
Bosch - 7 years old - YMMV.

Believe it or not I run 2 Bosch dishwashers plumbed in and running,
the latest came "Free" with a new kitchen. The older one, installed in
a utility room is probably 10+ years old and comes in handy at
Christmas and birthday parties.

At some time (many moons ago) on the then current dishwasher the
detergent dispenser door started refusing to latch closed because a
little plastic "snib" had worn away/broken off. The whole assembly had
to be changed, this did have the large wirewound china resistor
arrangement I described. Whether it was the oldest Bosch or an even
earlier predecessor machine of unknown provenance I cannot at this
stage recall.

Could well be. But the 'as I recall' part of what I wrote is from my
memory of what I found when I took it apart a couple of years ago. I may
not remember correctly, of course...!

The important bit is that this particular part can be bought separately;
I know someone (I've forgotten who) said you had to change the whole
assembly. I suspect that worn plastic does mean you have to change the
whole thing unless a DIY solution can be found.
--
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