UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

I am aware that low energy fluorescent lamps cannot be dimmed with a
conventional dimmer. However, in order to save energy, I have replaced a
tungsten bulb in a dimmer equipped circuit, with a low energy lamp with the
intention of leaving the dimmer always set to maximum brightness.

Out of interest I tried the dimmer just to see what would happen. As
expected it was quite unsatisfactory and resulted in various modes of
flickering. I therefore set the dimmer permanently to max brightness. All
was OK for several weeks.

Now, a few weeks later, the low energy bulb has failed and flickers
constantly even on max brightness setting.

My question is this: Could I have damaged the bulb by fiddling with the
dimmer or is it a random premature failure?


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 128
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

On 03/09/2007 18:47, Malcolm H wrote:

I am aware that low energy fluorescent lamps cannot be dimmed with a
conventional dimmer.


To go off slightly at a tangent, I've tried one of these
https://www.e-tradecounter.co.uk/Lig...CA20S-B22.html

Which is a 230v CFL, with internal dimmer operated from any normal
on/off switch, it is fairly good, the colour does change quite a bit as
the brighness changes, and there is a little bit of hum when it's at
full brigtness, but it's quite good with a pullcord in the bedroom,
fitted in an uplighter the colour change is less obvious too.

  #3   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25,191
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

Malcolm H wrote:

Now, a few weeks later, the low energy bulb has failed and flickers
constantly even on max brightness setting.

My question is this: Could I have damaged the bulb by fiddling with the
dimmer or is it a random premature failure?


Chances are just running it from a dimmer could have shagged it. Dimmers
will often not provide a true sinusoidal output, even at maximum
brightness - there will often be some clipping of the waveform near
crossover. This can result in the output of a fair amount of harmonic
noise, that could end up dumping extra heat from the filter components
in the CFL circuitry.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 850
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

I am aware that low energy fluorescent lamps cannot be dimmed with a
conventional dimmer.

To go off slightly at a tangent, I've tried one of these
https://www.e-tradecounter.co.uk/Lig...CA20S-B22.html


Interesting - thanks for the link !
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer


"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
On 03/09/2007 18:47, Malcolm H wrote:

I am aware that low energy fluorescent lamps cannot be dimmed with a
conventional dimmer.


To go off slightly at a tangent, I've tried one of these
https://www.e-tradecounter.co.uk/Lig...CA20S-B22.html

Which is a 230v CFL, with internal dimmer operated from any normal on/off
switch, it is fairly good, the colour does change quite a bit as the
brighness changes, and there is a little bit of hum when it's at full
brigtness, but it's quite good with a pullcord in the bedroom, fitted in
an uplighter the colour change is less obvious too.


Thank you for that Andy. I have ordered one!




  #6   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Malcolm H wrote:

Now, a few weeks later, the low energy bulb has failed and flickers
constantly even on max brightness setting.

My question is this: Could I have damaged the bulb by fiddling with the
dimmer or is it a random premature failure?


Chances are just running it from a dimmer could have shagged it. Dimmers
will often not provide a true sinusoidal output, even at maximum
brightness - there will often be some clipping of the waveform near
crossover. This can result in the output of a fair amount of harmonic
noise, that could end up dumping extra heat from the filter components in
the CFL circuitry.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


Thank you for the info John. Yes I think it was my fault.

I have now ordered a Digiflux dimmable lamp (see relevant posts in this
thread) and have removed my dimmer. As a matter of interest the warranty on
the Digiflux is invalidated if used with an external dimmer!


  #7   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer


wrote in message
...
Thus spake Malcolm H ) unto the assembled multitudes:
I have now ordered a Digiflux dimmable lamp (see relevant posts in this
thread) and have removed my dimmer. As a matter of interest the warranty
on
the Digiflux is invalidated if used with an external dimmer!


There is a DigiFlux CFL dimmable from a standard dimmer switch, so no need
for you to change your switch:
http://www.varilight.co.uk/Pages/page%20digiflux.htm


--
Andy Clews
University of Sussex
*** Remove DENTURES if replying by email ***


Yes thank you Andy I had noticed that, but it was cheaper to change the
switch.


  #8   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,045
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

Malcolm H wrote:
wrote in message
...
Thus spake Malcolm H ) unto the assembled multitudes:
I have now ordered a Digiflux dimmable lamp (see relevant posts in this
thread) and have removed my dimmer. As a matter of interest the warranty
on
the Digiflux is invalidated if used with an external dimmer!

There is a DigiFlux CFL dimmable from a standard dimmer switch, so no need
for you to change your switch:
http://www.varilight.co.uk/Pages/page%20digiflux.htm


--
Andy Clews
University of Sussex
*** Remove DENTURES if replying by email ***


Yes thank you Andy I had noticed that, but it was cheaper to change the
switch.


What I want is low energy lamps with a BRIGHTENER!!!
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 141
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What I want is low energy lamps with a BRIGHTENER!!!


Unless your whole house is lit with 100W lamps, just buy the next size
up - 4:1 is about right compared to normal pearl, 5:1 is relative to
soft tone. Of course if you want it to have warmed up by the time
you've taken your hand off the switch that's a different matter.

--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,020
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

Chris Hodges wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What I want is low energy lamps with a BRIGHTENER!!!


Unless your whole house is lit with 100W lamps, just buy the next size
up - 4:1 is about right compared to normal pearl, 5:1 is relative to
soft tone. Of course if you want it to have warmed up by the time
you've taken your hand off the switch that's a different matter.


How the fans of CFLs fool themselves. I've fitted 24W CFLs supposed to
be equivalent to 100W incandescent bulbs. The light from them is about
the same as I get from a 15W incandescent bulb.


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer


"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Chris Hodges wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What I want is low energy lamps with a BRIGHTENER!!!


Unless your whole house is lit with 100W lamps, just buy the next size
up - 4:1 is about right compared to normal pearl, 5:1 is relative to
soft tone. Of course if you want it to have warmed up by the time
you've taken your hand off the switch that's a different matter.


How the fans of CFLs fool themselves. I've fitted 24W CFLs supposed to
be equivalent to 100W incandescent bulbs. The light from them is about
the same as I get from a 15W incandescent bulb.


A modicum of hyperbole I suspect!


  #12   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,045
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

Malcolm H wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Chris Hodges wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What I want is low energy lamps with a BRIGHTENER!!!
Unless your whole house is lit with 100W lamps, just buy the next size
up - 4:1 is about right compared to normal pearl, 5:1 is relative to
soft tone. Of course if you want it to have warmed up by the time
you've taken your hand off the switch that's a different matter.

How the fans of CFLs fool themselves. I've fitted 24W CFLs supposed to
be equivalent to 100W incandescent bulbs. The light from them is about
the same as I get from a 15W incandescent bulb.


A modicum of hyperbole I suspect!


With some, its not far off.

I run 25 watters here to get about a 40W illumination level
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,122
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

On 2007-09-04 18:06:42 +0100, (Steve Firth) said:

Chris Hodges wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What I want is low energy lamps with a BRIGHTENER!!!


Unless your whole house is lit with 100W lamps, just buy the next size
up - 4:1 is about right compared to normal pearl, 5:1 is relative to
soft tone. Of course if you want it to have warmed up by the time
you've taken your hand off the switch that's a different matter.


How the fans of CFLs fool themselves. I've fitted 24W CFLs supposed to
be equivalent to 100W incandescent bulbs. The light from them is about
the same as I get from a 15W incandescent bulb.


I've found them to be suitable for exterior use in lanterns, but that's
about it - nothing inside. Too dim and the sickly light.....






  #14   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,560
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Malcolm H wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Chris Hodges wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


What I want is low energy lamps with a BRIGHTENER!!!
Unless your whole house is lit with 100W lamps, just buy the next size
up - 4:1 is about right compared to normal pearl, 5:1 is relative to
soft tone. Of course if you want it to have warmed up by the time
you've taken your hand off the switch that's a different matter.
How the fans of CFLs fool themselves. I've fitted 24W CFLs supposed to
be equivalent to 100W incandescent bulbs. The light from them is about
the same as I get from a 15W incandescent bulb.


A modicum of hyperbole I suspect!


With some, its not far off.

I run 25 watters here to get about a 40W illumination level


Maybe time to try another brand.


NT

  #15   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
nog nog is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:38:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

---------------8
I run 25 watters here to get about a 40W illumination level


Measured how?


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,045
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

nog wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:38:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

---------------8
I run 25 watters here to get about a 40W illumination level


Measured how?

By my abilty to actually see teh keys on this ketboard.
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25,191
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

wrote:
Thus spake Andy Hall ) unto the assembled multitudes:

How the fans of CFLs fool themselves. I've fitted 24W CFLs supposed to
be equivalent to 100W incandescent bulbs. The light from them is about
the same as I get from a 15W incandescent bulb.


I've found them to be suitable for exterior use in lanterns, but that's
about it - nothing inside. Too dim and the sickly light.....


Has anyone tried LED lamps? I bought, as a trial, a couple of GU10 LED
spotlamps to fit in a five-unit ceiling fitting (the other three units are
GU10 CFLs). They give quite a bright output for only 1.2W consumption each
(the CFLs are 7W consumption). They are rather more directional than the
CFLs (not to mention having a rather 'cold' quality to their light). For
me, the jury's still deliberating...


That seems to be the general consensus at the moment, cold and
directional. OK for feature lighting perhaps. The other point to watch
is the LEDs are driven hard in this application, so the life expectancy
is not good (especially compared to what you normally expect for a LED).
One of our clients has a shop front that used a whole bunch of these for
wall washers, where they actually wanted the slightly blue effect to
match their other feature lighting. After as little as six months some
of the individual LEDs in the lamps were failing.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd -
http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 128
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

On 05/09/2007 11:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

nog wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:38:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I run 25 watters here to get about a 40W illumination level


Measured how?

By my abilty to actually see teh keys on this ketboard.


By that criteria we'd probably all assume you normally typed under the
glare of a single fairy lamp :-)
  #20   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 676
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

On Sep 5, 12:22 pm, wrote:
Has anyone tried LED lamps? I bought, as a trial, a couple of GU10 LED
spotlamps to fit in a five-unit ceiling fitting (the other three units are
GU10 CFLs). They give quite a bright output for only 1.2W consumption each
(the CFLs are 7W consumption). They are rather more directional than the
CFLs (not to mention having a rather 'cold' quality to their light). For
me, the jury's still deliberating...


I wonder if MR16s that run from 12v could be better than GU10s that
run from mains.

With mains I'd expect less conversion efficiency and greater heat
losses, and the hotter the fitting the less light the LEDs will give
out.

cheers,
Pete.



  #21   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,466
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
nog wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:38:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
---------------8
I run 25 watters here to get about a 40W illumination level

Measured how?

By my abilty to actually see teh keys on this ketboard.


Looks like you need more light there, mate

ha ha

--
geoff
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 128
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

On 04/09/2007 11:50, Malcolm H wrote:

I have now ordered a Digiflux dimmable lamp


has it arrived? if so can I check does ours "hum" sligly at full
brigtness? Just wondering if mine is normal or not.
  #23   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

In article , wrote:
Has anyone tried LED lamps? I bought, as a trial, a couple of GU10 LED
spotlamps to fit in a five-unit ceiling fitting (the other three units are

I have brought several LED GU-10 units over the last year.

Some I have put in the bathroom - white tiled walls contrasting strongly
with blue paint and tile ... well the blue-white of "white" LED is fine
there, and the blue LEDs are good too.
Others into the daughter's bedroom ... "white" is generally acceptable there
too.
Lastly (on the GU-10 front) the hallway ... has a dimmer on it to drop use
to low levels at night without going to total darkness. Not suitable for
LEDs.

General result : the coloured ones aren't a problem, but in both
cases Their Ladyships insist on having an incandescent pointing at the
mirror, so they can get their face paint correct. I don't see the problem,
but I can see where a problem could arise, so I take the ~75% energy savings
and wait for the next generation.

LEDs are not a cure-all (I use colour at work, and I am very picky
about the lamps for my microscope); but for regular use they're a 4-for-50
swap, in terms of power used.

--
Aidan
Aberdeen, Scotland
Written at Thu, 06 Sep 2007 01:45 +0100, but posted later.

  #24   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

In article , John Rumm wrote:
After as little as six months some
of the individual LEDs in the lamps were failing.

To the extent that the lamp was failing to deliver it's effect?
I ask as someone who is well acquainted with the effects of
peculiar "colour", and consider it just another issue. But for someone
else's decorative lighting, that's something I take pretty casually.
If I want two things to match in colour, I bring them adjacent,
or bring them adjacent to a colour standard. Under (of course) the same
lighting.
Having said that, I've almost lost a grand this month due to
colour ****-ups, which has been a warning to me. Different topic - I'll
describe in a separate message on ... "OT? Colour Specifying Furniture"

--
Aidan
Aberdeen, Scotland
Written at Thu, 06 Sep 2007 01:56 +0100, but posted later.

  #25   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25,191
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

Aidan Karley wrote:
In article , John Rumm wrote:
After as little as six months some
of the individual LEDs in the lamps were failing.

To the extent that the lamp was failing to deliver it's effect?


These were in a run of wall washers, so the effect remains ok, but there
is growing variation in brightness now depending on how many LEDs each
lamp has lost. It was just surprising how quickly LEDs began to fail.

There is also a concealed uplighting run of blue LED rope lights in a
raised section of ceiling (these have performed better with no dropped
LEDs yet).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

In message , John Rumm
writes
Aidan Karley wrote:
In article , John Rumm wrote:
After as little as six months some of the individual LEDs in the
lamps were failing.

To the extent that the lamp was failing to deliver it's effect?


These were in a run of wall washers, so the effect remains ok, but
there is growing variation in brightness now depending on how many LEDs
each lamp has lost. It was just surprising how quickly LEDs began to
fail.

There is also a concealed uplighting run of blue LED rope lights in a
raised section of ceiling (these have performed better with no dropped
LEDs yet).

so, a heat effect (the up-facing ones being able to dissipate heat
better)?

--
Si
  #27   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25,191
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

Si wrote:
In message , John Rumm
writes
Aidan Karley wrote:
In article , John Rumm wrote:
After as little as six months some of the individual LEDs in the
lamps were failing.

To the extent that the lamp was failing to deliver it's effect?


These were in a run of wall washers, so the effect remains ok, but
there is growing variation in brightness now depending on how many
LEDs each lamp has lost. It was just surprising how quickly LEDs began
to fail.

There is also a concealed uplighting run of blue LED rope lights in a
raised section of ceiling (these have performed better with no dropped
LEDs yet).

so, a heat effect (the up-facing ones being able to dissipate heat better)?


I think it is just a reflection of how hard they were being driven. The
uplight rope has far more LEDs with each being less stressed. Shame that
can't be said for the PSU that drives them though - that needed
replacing within four months.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer


"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
On 04/09/2007 11:50, Malcolm H wrote:

I have now ordered a Digiflux dimmable lamp


has it arrived? if so can I check does ours "hum" sligly at full
brigtness? Just wondering if mine is normal or not.


Yes, it has now arrived and appears to work well. It is absolutely silent at
all settings.


  #31   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 850
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

ho-hum another 9w GU10 CFL bites the dust. I'm going to try a couple of
5W cold cathodes and see how they go... if they bite the dust I'm
waiting 5 years for the technology to improve :-(


In the meantime, the Tesco near us has 240V 50W GU10 lamps - two in a
blister pack - for £1
  #32   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,045
Default Low energy lamps with dimmer

Colin Wilson wrote:
ho-hum another 9w GU10 CFL bites the dust. I'm going to try a couple of
5W cold cathodes and see how they go... if they bite the dust I'm
waiting 5 years for the technology to improve :-(


In the meantime, the Tesco near us has 240V 50W GU10 lamps - two in a
blister pack - for £1

So thats only a £1 a month for every 4 lights you have.,..;-)

I pay about that for 12v ones.

MOSTLY they last about 2-3 years.
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timeswitch for low energy lamps [email protected] UK diy 16 October 30th 06 05:07 PM
Energy saving lamps Trevor Smith UK diy 4 October 13th 06 12:05 AM
Low energy lamps Frank Erskine UK diy 41 September 7th 06 12:21 AM
Energy saving lamps [email protected] UK diy 5 December 31st 05 03:28 AM
'Low Energy' lamps tick Mark Carver UK diy 4 June 30th 05 06:44 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:07 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"