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Default Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe

I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into, but cant find a
strap on boss designed to fit such a diameter. Does anyone know if
such a thing is sold? Thanks.

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Default Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe

In article . com,
Mr Uncalled-For writes
I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into, but cant find a
strap on boss designed to fit such a diameter. Does anyone know if
such a thing is sold? Thanks.

Try part no 16148, 82 mm, black, strap boss, 2/3 down this page:
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130a.asp
Boss adaptors here, top of the page:
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130b.asp

But a local plumbers' merchant or drainage supplies place should do the
same. It is 3" nominal so that is what you should be asking for.
--
fred
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Default Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe

Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into, but cant find a
strap on boss designed to fit such a diameter. Does anyone know if
such a thing is sold? Thanks.

Normally you cut the pipe and insert a branch, or a hopper.
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On Aug 15, 9:53 am, fred wrote:

Try part no 16148, 82 mm, black, strap boss, 2/3 down this page:http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130a.asp
Boss adaptors here, top of the page:http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130b.asp

But a local plumbers' merchant or drainage supplies place should do the
same. It is 3" nominal so that is what you should be asking for.


Thanks. It's exactly 3.5 inches external though - I'm not sure if
that's the same as 3 inches nominal.

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On Aug 15, 9:57 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into, but cant find a
strap on boss designed to fit such a diameter. Does anyone know if
such a thing is sold? Thanks.


Normally you cut the pipe and insert a branch, or a hopper.


I was hoping that the strap-on-boss route might be easier!
The pipe is also crammed into a corner, partially submerged in render
(harling) on one side, which I'll need to chip off to do anything. If
I need to do it properly I think I'd get a plumber in to do it. I am a
bit concerned that the pipe would drop if a section were removed,
although it already does have a branch coming into it that's rendered
into the wall as well, so maybe that'd act as enough of a support. Hmm.



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In article .com,
Mr Uncalled-For writes
On Aug 15, 9:53 am, fred wrote:

Try part no 16148, 82 mm, black, strap boss, 2/3 down this page:http://www.bes.

ltd.uk/products/130a.asp
Boss adaptors here, top of the page:http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130b.asp

But a local plumbers' merchant or drainage supplies place should do the
same. It is 3" nominal so that is what you should be asking for.


Thanks. It's exactly 3.5 inches external though - I'm not sure if
that's the same as 3 inches nominal.

The one at BES is 82mm so 3.25" which is plenty close enough for a strap
on boss but buy a longer bolt for the back fixing which I'd guess will be M6.

Last one I fitted needed a 57mm hole saw for the pipe, cut slow and use
lube.
--
fred
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Default Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe

On Aug 15, 12:05 pm, fred wrote:
In article .com,
Mr Uncalled-For writesOn Aug 15, 9:53 am, fred wrote:

Try part no 16148, 82 mm, black, strap boss, 2/3 down this page:http://www.bes.

ltd.uk/products/130a.asp
Boss adaptors here, top of the page:http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130b.asp


But a local plumbers' merchant or drainage supplies place should do the
same. It is 3" nominal so that is what you should be asking for.


Thanks. It's exactly 3.5 inches external though - I'm not sure if
that's the same as 3 inches nominal.


The one at BES is 82mm so 3.25" which is plenty close enough for a strap
on boss but buy a longer bolt for the back fixing which I'd guess will be M6.

Last one I fitted needed a 57mm hole saw for the pipe, cut slow and use
lube.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla


On Aug 15, 12:05 pm, fred wrote:
The one at BES is 82mm so 3.25" which is plenty close enough for a strap
on boss but buy a longer bolt for the back fixing which I'd guess will be M6.

Last one I fitted needed a 57mm hole saw for the pipe, cut slow and use
lube.


Thanks fred. Yes, a longer bolt should do the trick.

Presumably I should use an appropriate grade of waterproof sealant to
ensure a watertight connection between boss and pipe.

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On Aug 15, 12:05 pm, fred wrote:

Last one I fitted needed a 57mm hole saw for the pipe, cut slow and use
lube.


Fred, could you tell me would you'd use as a lubricant, when drilling
cast iron?

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On Aug 15, 9:23 am, Mr Uncalled-For
wrote:
I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into


Well, I checked with a plumber and apparently I would:
* Not be permitted by 'building control' to use the strap-on-boss
solution.
* Would have to do it all in cast iron (externally, that is).
* Have to get a building warrant, covering the entire job, including
routing of the pipe internally.

So, from previous rough quotes I've had in the past for putting
together building warrant applications, I bet it would probably all
cost in the region of £600 if I'm lucky.

For installing a kitchen sink!

But at least I'll now have various speedfit fittings and plastic pipe
that I can take out admire of an evening.

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Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
On Aug 15, 9:23 am, Mr Uncalled-For
wrote:
I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into


Well, I checked with a plumber and apparently I would:
* Not be permitted by 'building control' to use the strap-on-boss
solution.
* Would have to do it all in cast iron (externally, that is).
* Have to get a building warrant, covering the entire job, including
routing of the pipe internally.


I would not take that as gospel....

The pipe you want to attach to, what is it a soil pipe or a rainwater pipe?

If the latter then you would not be able to tee into it unless you also
have a combined surface and foul water sewer.

There is nothing to stop you mixing plastic with CI in this way as far
as I am aware either.

--
Cheers,

John.

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On Aug 15, 11:54 pm, John Rumm wrote:

I would not take that as gospel....

The pipe you want to attach to, what is it a soil pipe or a rainwater pipe?

If the latter then you would not be able to tee into it unless you also
have a combined surface and foul water sewer.

There is nothing to stop you mixing plastic with CI in this way as far
as I am aware either.


Hi John. I spoke to a guy at the council building control department,
and he said that the new branch would need to be cast iron, but the
drain pipe that feeds into this branch could be 50mm plastic. So no
strap-on-bossage allowed.

Also I discovered that because I'm not installing the kitchen in a
room that already had a kitchen in it, all the work would need a
building warrant - and I've already started the work, including
putting in some sockets. I hate the world!



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Mr Uncalled-For wrote:

Hi John. I spoke to a guy at the council building control department,
and he said that the new branch would need to be cast iron, but the
drain pipe that feeds into this branch could be 50mm plastic. So no
strap-on-bossage allowed.


Why do you need a new branch in the first place? (assuming you are only
connecting a small (ish) bore sink style waste pipe.

Also I discovered that because I'm not installing the kitchen in a
room that already had a kitchen in it, all the work would need a
building warrant - and I've already started the work, including
putting in some sockets. I hate the world!


Did you tell him who you were? ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

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On Aug 16, 1:06 pm, John Rumm wrote:

Why do you need a new branch in the first place? (assuming you are only
connecting a small (ish) bore sink style waste pipe.


The new sink is quite a bit further away from the stack and the fall
over the distance means that the existing branches are too high up -
the existing drain exits the building at just below the height of the
floorboards.

Did you tell him who you were? ;-)


Nope! But I think he kept me on the line long enough to trace the
call. I'm going to phone architectural technician to see how to
proceed with regards to the (bleeding) building warrant.

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Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:06 pm, John Rumm wrote:

Why do you need a new branch in the first place? (assuming you are only
connecting a small (ish) bore sink style waste pipe.


The new sink is quite a bit further away from the stack and the fall
over the distance means that the existing branches are too high up -
the existing drain exits the building at just below the height of the
floorboards.


You can if it is easier, change the stack from CI to plastic half way
up. So you could switch to plastic and add a new branch in that.

Did you tell him who you were? ;-)


Nope! But I think he kept me on the line long enough to trace the
call. I'm going to phone architectural technician to see how to
proceed with regards to the (bleeding) building warrant.


This was building control you were talking to and not MI5!

(I expect that are not going to be loosing too much sleep over an
"enquiry").

If you are going the building notice warrant route, I would phone them
again and ask about how they handle part P. Make sure your council is
not one that will try to stiff you into paying for an external test
report - because that could add another couple of hundred to the bill.

--
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John.

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On Aug 16, 1:41 pm, John Rumm wrote:

You can if it is easier, change the stack from CI to plastic half way
up. So you could switch to plastic and add a new branch in that.


That'd be great. I'd like that, because I bet one of these:
http://tinyurl.com/2wqwpy is not cheap.
But it seems like swapping plastic into cast iron stacks really isn't
approved of in this neck of the woods.
One plumber and the building control guy concur on this.

I could just do what I wanted, but then might have problems selling
the house if I've done something easily visible that's not allowed.

This was building control you were talking to and not MI5!


Just kidding about the call tracing.

If you are going the building notice warrant route, I would phone them
again and ask about how they handle part P. Make sure your council is
not one that will try to stiff you into paying for an external test
report - because that could add another couple of hundred to the bill.


Part N up here, I think.
Frankly I'm becoming resigned to hundreds being added onto the bill.
After all I need to interact with the government, and trained
professionals, sob.



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Mr Uncalled-For wrote:

You can if it is easier, change the stack from CI to plastic half way
up. So you could switch to plastic and add a new branch in that.


That'd be great. I'd like that, because I bet one of these:
http://tinyurl.com/2wqwpy is not cheap.
But it seems like swapping plastic into cast iron stacks really isn't
approved of in this neck of the woods.
One plumber and the building control guy concur on this.


Judging from your later comment I assume you are in Scotland... that may
change things - I don't know anything about specific requirements there.

Here there is nothing stopping you converting from CI to plastic that I
am aware of (assuming you are not in a listed building anyway). I did it
on my loft conversion to extend the stack upwards. Took of the last bit
of CI leaving a collar on the top remaining section, wound some cord
tightly round the base of the new plastic bit and sat it in the collar,
then added a fillet of mortar to finish the joint.

I could just do what I wanted, but then might have problems selling
the house if I've done something easily visible that's not allowed.


http://www.wickes.co.uk/content/ebiz...ges/gil/73.pdf

(describes strap on bosses with CI pipe)

Part N up here, I think.
Frankly I'm becoming resigned to hundreds being added onto the bill.
After all I need to interact with the government, and trained
professionals, sob.


;-)


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John.

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In article .com
, Mr Uncalled-For writes
On Aug 16, 1:41 pm, John Rumm wrote:

You can if it is easier, change the stack from CI to plastic half way
up. So you could switch to plastic and add a new branch in that.


That'd be great. I'd like that, because I bet one of these:
http://tinyurl.com/2wqwpy is not cheap.
But it seems like swapping plastic into cast iron stacks really isn't
approved of in this neck of the woods.
One plumber and the building control guy concur on this.

I could just do what I wanted, but then might have problems selling
the house if I've done something easily visible that's not allowed.

This was building control you were talking to and not MI5!


Just kidding about the call tracing.

If you are going the building notice warrant route, I would phone them
again and ask about how they handle part P. Make sure your council is
not one that will try to stiff you into paying for an external test
report - because that could add another couple of hundred to the bill.


Part N up here, I think.
Frankly I'm becoming resigned to hundreds being added onto the bill.
After all I need to interact with the government, and trained
professionals, sob.

sigh, how tiresome.

I was trying to work out the objection for the strap on but I suppose it the
lack of a sweep meaning that passing fluids could go back up the branch.
Sounds pretty remote to me. I thought of that when doing mine (in an
enclosed location) and placed a step drop of about 150mm in the branch
just before the joint to the stack.

One of my (tenement) neighbours has had one done recently and a section
of CI was cut out and a plastic branch grafted in with those universal rubber
couplers. Not the tidiest of solutions but it was a new bathroom so should
have been BC assessed.

In reply to your other questions, I used silicone on the boss before
assembly and used WD40 when cutting which was not ideal, I think tallow
is meant to be the preferred option.
--
fred
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fred wrote:

I was trying to work out the objection for the strap on but I suppose it the
lack of a sweep meaning that passing fluids could go back up the branch.
Sounds pretty remote to me. I thought of that when doing mine (in an
enclosed location) and placed a step drop of about 150mm in the branch
just before the joint to the stack.


In England that is a building regs requirement, see page 8 onward:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADH_2002.pdf


--
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John.

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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:12:23 -0700, Mr Uncalled-For wrote:

On Aug 15, 9:23 am, Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into


Well, I checked with a plumber and apparently I would:
* Not be permitted by 'building control' to use the strap-on-boss

solution.
* Would have to do it all in cast iron (externally, that is).


You could cut into the pipe and fit a cast iron branch. There are
various manufactures, but you can find a .pdf catalogue of the one I know
most about at www.saint-gobain.co.uk - you'ld be looking for a Timesaver
Soil catalogue where you'll find details of GT12 90x100mm stepped
couplings designed for 3.5" LCC pipe and GT06 100mm branches. If the
stepped couplings were frowned upon by the council then you'ld have to
get a 3.5" LCC branch, they are still available.

You did say that space is tight but maybe you can get a disc cutter to do
most of the work. Do you have control over the whole stack or is someone
above you. If the former, then you have the luxury of time for the
installation at least.

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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:36:55 +0000, Colin Murphy wrote:


the one I know most about at www.saint-gobain.co.uk -


Err, http://www.saint-gobain-pipelines.co.uk/ , is a much better link.



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In article , John Rumm
writes
fred wrote:

I was trying to work out the objection for the strap on but I suppose it the
lack of a sweep meaning that passing fluids could go back up the branch.
Sounds pretty remote to me. I thought of that when doing mine (in an
enclosed location) and placed a step drop of about 150mm in the branch
just before the joint to the stack.


In England that is a building regs requirement, see page 8 onward:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADH_2002.pdf

A good doc, now filed, thanks for that.

I suspect the o/p's pipe is the grey water pipe for his part of the block (if it
is a tenement) in which rain and non-foul waste is mixed (around here at
least).


--
fred
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On Aug 16, 9:58 pm, fred wrote:
In article , John Rumm
writesfred wrote:

I was trying to work out the objection for the strap on but I suppose it the
lack of a sweep meaning that passing fluids could go back up the branch.
Sounds pretty remote to me. I thought of that when doing mine (in an
enclosed location) and placed a step drop of about 150mm in the branch
just before the joint to the stack.


In England that is a building regs requirement, see page 8 onward:


http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADH_2002.pdf


A good doc, now filed, thanks for that.


Yeah. I've been having a whinge elsewhere in this group about how the
equivalent website in Scotland only publishes a high level
platitudinous version of the building regs.

I suspect the o/p's pipe is the grey water pipe for his part of the block (if it
is a tenement) in which rain and non-foul waste is mixed (around here at
least).


Yep that's the case.

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On Aug 16, 8:36 pm, Colin Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:12:23 -0700, Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
On Aug 15, 9:23 am, Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into


Well, I checked with a plumber and apparently I would:
* Not be permitted by 'building control' to use the strap-on-boss

solution.
* Would have to do it all in cast iron (externally, that is).


You could cut into the pipe and fit a cast iron branch. There are
various manufactures, but you can find a .pdf catalogue of the one I know
most about atwww.saint-gobain.co.uk- you'ld be looking for a Timesaver
Soil catalogue where you'll find details of GT12 90x100mm stepped
couplings designed for 3.5" LCC pipe and GT06 100mm branches. If the
stepped couplings were frowned upon by the council then you'ld have to
get a 3.5" LCC branch, they are still available.

You did say that space is tight but maybe you can get a disc cutter to do
most of the work. Do you have control over the whole stack or is someone
above you. If the former, then you have the luxury of time for the
installation at least.


Actually, I've been drawing layouts using the data from the saint
gobain site. It looks doable, apart from the fact that the timesaver
couplings stick out quite far from the pipe and would probably
neccessitate hacking into the brickwork on the close side at least.
The LLC stuff is more compact, but longer so there is less space
vertically.
Unfortunately there's a flat upstairs that shares the same stack, but
it is just the rainwater/grey water stack at least.

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On Aug 16, 10:25 pm, Mr Uncalled-For
wrote:

I had a go at using google documents to publish some pictures of the
situation:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dd8vc3rg_0cbmp2v

There's a fair bit of hacking to be done just to expose the existing
pipe.


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On Aug 16, 5:59 pm, fred wrote:

One of my (tenement) neighbours has had one done recently and a section
of CI was cut out and a plastic branch grafted in with those universal rubber
couplers. Not the tidiest of solutions but it was a new bathroom so should
have been BC assessed.


Fred, what local authority would that be? It could provide precedent.

(Yes, I'm starting to talk about plumbing like a solicitor. It has
come to this




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In article . com,
Mr Uncalled-For writes
On Aug 16, 5:59 pm, fred wrote:

One of my (tenement) neighbours has had one done recently and a section
of CI was cut out and a plastic branch grafted in with those universal rubber
couplers. Not the tidiest of solutions but it was a new bathroom so should
have been BC assessed.


Fred, what local authority would that be? It could provide precedent.

(Yes, I'm starting to talk about plumbing like a solicitor. It has
come to this

It's Glasgow City Council, in a conservation area and was completed in the
last 8mths or so.

If it's any help I can post a pic but TBH it looks like an example of how not
to do a job, it looks like ****.

In fact, here it is (note, this is not mine!):
http://i14.tinypic.com/6gapmhv.jpg

I've just noticed the one above is a bit neater, or so I thought:
http://i15.tinypic.com/6bmmhar.jpg
, the soil is neater, plastic branch into CI with I think CI direct into the
plastic above. However, take a look at the branch on the skinny pipe, looks
like a hole has been drilled and the pipe just poked in, how very Glasgow
plumber :-/. This one is quite a bit older.

Building control may be wanting CI to handle the weight of the stack,
which I think is wrong, it should be on the supports. However, I saw an old
build specification a long time ago that showed the bottom bend on the
stack having a cast foot which was required to be supported, presumably
to take the weight of the stack if need be but presumably only in the event
of a failure of the fixings into the stonework.

Just seen your pics in the other part of the thread and it looks er
interesting :-)

Reading the doc that John linked to I notice a requirement for a min
450mm between a the lowest branch and the base of the bottom bend,
watch you don't get caught with that one.

Good luck.
--
fred
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On Aug 17, 12:29 am, fred wrote:
In article . com,
Mr Uncalled-For writesOn Aug 16, 5:59 pm, fred wrote:

One of my (tenement) neighbours has had one done recently and a section
of CI was cut out and a plastic branch grafted in with those universal rubber
couplers. Not the tidiest of solutions but it was a new bathroom so should
have been BC assessed.


Fred, what local authority would that be? It could provide precedent.


(Yes, I'm starting to talk about plumbing like a solicitor. It has
come to this


It's Glasgow City Council, in a conservation area and was completed in the
last 8mths or so.

If it's any help I can post a pic but TBH it looks like an example of how not
to do a job, it looks like ****.

In fact, here it is (note, this is not mine!):http://i14.tinypic.com/6gapmhv.jpg

However, take a look at the branch on the skinny pipe, looks
like a hole has been drilled and the pipe just poked in


Yeah, I noticed that. Interesting!


Reading the doc that John linked to I notice a requirement for a min
450mm between a the lowest branch and the base of the bottom bend,
watch you don't get caught with that one.


That is the one that I am hoping wont be a problem - it would require
the drain to bend below about 200mm below the ground level.
Not sure how you'd check that without digging or in this case lifting
slabs, then digging.

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Default Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe

On Aug 16, 5:59 pm, fred wrote:

One of my (tenement) neighbours has had one done recently and a section
of CI was cut out and a plastic branch grafted in with those universal rubber
couplers. Not the tidiest of solutions but it was a new bathroom so should
have been BC assessed.


For the record, I checked with building control and this isn't allowed
in Edinburgh.
You must 'maintain the integrity of the cast iron stack'.
That's Edinburgh for ya.

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