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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into, but cant find a
strap on boss designed to fit such a diameter. Does anyone know if such a thing is sold? Thanks. |
#2
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
In article . com,
Mr Uncalled-For writes I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into, but cant find a strap on boss designed to fit such a diameter. Does anyone know if such a thing is sold? Thanks. Try part no 16148, 82 mm, black, strap boss, 2/3 down this page: http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130a.asp Boss adaptors here, top of the page: http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130b.asp But a local plumbers' merchant or drainage supplies place should do the same. It is 3" nominal so that is what you should be asking for. -- fred Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla |
#3
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into, but cant find a strap on boss designed to fit such a diameter. Does anyone know if such a thing is sold? Thanks. Normally you cut the pipe and insert a branch, or a hopper. |
#4
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 15, 9:53 am, fred wrote:
Try part no 16148, 82 mm, black, strap boss, 2/3 down this page:http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130a.asp Boss adaptors here, top of the page:http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130b.asp But a local plumbers' merchant or drainage supplies place should do the same. It is 3" nominal so that is what you should be asking for. Thanks. It's exactly 3.5 inches external though - I'm not sure if that's the same as 3 inches nominal. |
#5
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 15, 9:57 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mr Uncalled-For wrote: I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into, but cant find a strap on boss designed to fit such a diameter. Does anyone know if such a thing is sold? Thanks. Normally you cut the pipe and insert a branch, or a hopper. I was hoping that the strap-on-boss route might be easier! The pipe is also crammed into a corner, partially submerged in render (harling) on one side, which I'll need to chip off to do anything. If I need to do it properly I think I'd get a plumber in to do it. I am a bit concerned that the pipe would drop if a section were removed, although it already does have a branch coming into it that's rendered into the wall as well, so maybe that'd act as enough of a support. Hmm. |
#6
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
In article .com,
Mr Uncalled-For writes On Aug 15, 9:53 am, fred wrote: Try part no 16148, 82 mm, black, strap boss, 2/3 down this page:http://www.bes. ltd.uk/products/130a.asp Boss adaptors here, top of the page:http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130b.asp But a local plumbers' merchant or drainage supplies place should do the same. It is 3" nominal so that is what you should be asking for. Thanks. It's exactly 3.5 inches external though - I'm not sure if that's the same as 3 inches nominal. The one at BES is 82mm so 3.25" which is plenty close enough for a strap on boss but buy a longer bolt for the back fixing which I'd guess will be M6. Last one I fitted needed a 57mm hole saw for the pipe, cut slow and use lube. -- fred Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla |
#7
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 15, 12:05 pm, fred wrote:
In article .com, Mr Uncalled-For writesOn Aug 15, 9:53 am, fred wrote: Try part no 16148, 82 mm, black, strap boss, 2/3 down this page:http://www.bes. ltd.uk/products/130a.asp Boss adaptors here, top of the page:http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/130b.asp But a local plumbers' merchant or drainage supplies place should do the same. It is 3" nominal so that is what you should be asking for. Thanks. It's exactly 3.5 inches external though - I'm not sure if that's the same as 3 inches nominal. The one at BES is 82mm so 3.25" which is plenty close enough for a strap on boss but buy a longer bolt for the back fixing which I'd guess will be M6. Last one I fitted needed a 57mm hole saw for the pipe, cut slow and use lube. -- fred Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla On Aug 15, 12:05 pm, fred wrote: The one at BES is 82mm so 3.25" which is plenty close enough for a strap on boss but buy a longer bolt for the back fixing which I'd guess will be M6. Last one I fitted needed a 57mm hole saw for the pipe, cut slow and use lube. Thanks fred. Yes, a longer bolt should do the trick. Presumably I should use an appropriate grade of waterproof sealant to ensure a watertight connection between boss and pipe. |
#8
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 15, 12:05 pm, fred wrote:
Last one I fitted needed a 57mm hole saw for the pipe, cut slow and use lube. Fred, could you tell me would you'd use as a lubricant, when drilling cast iron? |
#9
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 15, 9:23 am, Mr Uncalled-For
wrote: I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into Well, I checked with a plumber and apparently I would: * Not be permitted by 'building control' to use the strap-on-boss solution. * Would have to do it all in cast iron (externally, that is). * Have to get a building warrant, covering the entire job, including routing of the pipe internally. So, from previous rough quotes I've had in the past for putting together building warrant applications, I bet it would probably all cost in the region of £600 if I'm lucky. For installing a kitchen sink! But at least I'll now have various speedfit fittings and plastic pipe that I can take out admire of an evening. |
#10
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
On Aug 15, 9:23 am, Mr Uncalled-For wrote: I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into Well, I checked with a plumber and apparently I would: * Not be permitted by 'building control' to use the strap-on-boss solution. * Would have to do it all in cast iron (externally, that is). * Have to get a building warrant, covering the entire job, including routing of the pipe internally. I would not take that as gospel.... The pipe you want to attach to, what is it a soil pipe or a rainwater pipe? If the latter then you would not be able to tee into it unless you also have a combined surface and foul water sewer. There is nothing to stop you mixing plastic with CI in this way as far as I am aware either. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#11
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 15, 11:54 pm, John Rumm wrote:
I would not take that as gospel.... The pipe you want to attach to, what is it a soil pipe or a rainwater pipe? If the latter then you would not be able to tee into it unless you also have a combined surface and foul water sewer. There is nothing to stop you mixing plastic with CI in this way as far as I am aware either. Hi John. I spoke to a guy at the council building control department, and he said that the new branch would need to be cast iron, but the drain pipe that feeds into this branch could be 50mm plastic. So no strap-on-bossage allowed. Also I discovered that because I'm not installing the kitchen in a room that already had a kitchen in it, all the work would need a building warrant - and I've already started the work, including putting in some sockets. I hate the world! |
#12
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
Hi John. I spoke to a guy at the council building control department, and he said that the new branch would need to be cast iron, but the drain pipe that feeds into this branch could be 50mm plastic. So no strap-on-bossage allowed. Why do you need a new branch in the first place? (assuming you are only connecting a small (ish) bore sink style waste pipe. Also I discovered that because I'm not installing the kitchen in a room that already had a kitchen in it, all the work would need a building warrant - and I've already started the work, including putting in some sockets. I hate the world! Did you tell him who you were? ;-) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#13
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 16, 1:06 pm, John Rumm wrote:
Why do you need a new branch in the first place? (assuming you are only connecting a small (ish) bore sink style waste pipe. The new sink is quite a bit further away from the stack and the fall over the distance means that the existing branches are too high up - the existing drain exits the building at just below the height of the floorboards. Did you tell him who you were? ;-) Nope! But I think he kept me on the line long enough to trace the call. I'm going to phone architectural technician to see how to proceed with regards to the (bleeding) building warrant. |
#14
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:06 pm, John Rumm wrote: Why do you need a new branch in the first place? (assuming you are only connecting a small (ish) bore sink style waste pipe. The new sink is quite a bit further away from the stack and the fall over the distance means that the existing branches are too high up - the existing drain exits the building at just below the height of the floorboards. You can if it is easier, change the stack from CI to plastic half way up. So you could switch to plastic and add a new branch in that. Did you tell him who you were? ;-) Nope! But I think he kept me on the line long enough to trace the call. I'm going to phone architectural technician to see how to proceed with regards to the (bleeding) building warrant. This was building control you were talking to and not MI5! (I expect that are not going to be loosing too much sleep over an "enquiry"). If you are going the building notice warrant route, I would phone them again and ask about how they handle part P. Make sure your council is not one that will try to stiff you into paying for an external test report - because that could add another couple of hundred to the bill. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#15
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 16, 1:41 pm, John Rumm wrote:
You can if it is easier, change the stack from CI to plastic half way up. So you could switch to plastic and add a new branch in that. That'd be great. I'd like that, because I bet one of these: http://tinyurl.com/2wqwpy is not cheap. But it seems like swapping plastic into cast iron stacks really isn't approved of in this neck of the woods. One plumber and the building control guy concur on this. I could just do what I wanted, but then might have problems selling the house if I've done something easily visible that's not allowed. This was building control you were talking to and not MI5! Just kidding about the call tracing. If you are going the building notice warrant route, I would phone them again and ask about how they handle part P. Make sure your council is not one that will try to stiff you into paying for an external test report - because that could add another couple of hundred to the bill. Part N up here, I think. Frankly I'm becoming resigned to hundreds being added onto the bill. After all I need to interact with the government, and trained professionals, sob. |
#16
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
You can if it is easier, change the stack from CI to plastic half way up. So you could switch to plastic and add a new branch in that. That'd be great. I'd like that, because I bet one of these: http://tinyurl.com/2wqwpy is not cheap. But it seems like swapping plastic into cast iron stacks really isn't approved of in this neck of the woods. One plumber and the building control guy concur on this. Judging from your later comment I assume you are in Scotland... that may change things - I don't know anything about specific requirements there. Here there is nothing stopping you converting from CI to plastic that I am aware of (assuming you are not in a listed building anyway). I did it on my loft conversion to extend the stack upwards. Took of the last bit of CI leaving a collar on the top remaining section, wound some cord tightly round the base of the new plastic bit and sat it in the collar, then added a fillet of mortar to finish the joint. I could just do what I wanted, but then might have problems selling the house if I've done something easily visible that's not allowed. http://www.wickes.co.uk/content/ebiz...ges/gil/73.pdf (describes strap on bosses with CI pipe) Part N up here, I think. Frankly I'm becoming resigned to hundreds being added onto the bill. After all I need to interact with the government, and trained professionals, sob. ;-) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#17
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
In article .com
, Mr Uncalled-For writes On Aug 16, 1:41 pm, John Rumm wrote: You can if it is easier, change the stack from CI to plastic half way up. So you could switch to plastic and add a new branch in that. That'd be great. I'd like that, because I bet one of these: http://tinyurl.com/2wqwpy is not cheap. But it seems like swapping plastic into cast iron stacks really isn't approved of in this neck of the woods. One plumber and the building control guy concur on this. I could just do what I wanted, but then might have problems selling the house if I've done something easily visible that's not allowed. This was building control you were talking to and not MI5! Just kidding about the call tracing. If you are going the building notice warrant route, I would phone them again and ask about how they handle part P. Make sure your council is not one that will try to stiff you into paying for an external test report - because that could add another couple of hundred to the bill. Part N up here, I think. Frankly I'm becoming resigned to hundreds being added onto the bill. After all I need to interact with the government, and trained professionals, sob. sigh, how tiresome. I was trying to work out the objection for the strap on but I suppose it the lack of a sweep meaning that passing fluids could go back up the branch. Sounds pretty remote to me. I thought of that when doing mine (in an enclosed location) and placed a step drop of about 150mm in the branch just before the joint to the stack. One of my (tenement) neighbours has had one done recently and a section of CI was cut out and a plastic branch grafted in with those universal rubber couplers. Not the tidiest of solutions but it was a new bathroom so should have been BC assessed. In reply to your other questions, I used silicone on the boss before assembly and used WD40 when cutting which was not ideal, I think tallow is meant to be the preferred option. -- fred Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla |
#18
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
fred wrote:
I was trying to work out the objection for the strap on but I suppose it the lack of a sweep meaning that passing fluids could go back up the branch. Sounds pretty remote to me. I thought of that when doing mine (in an enclosed location) and placed a step drop of about 150mm in the branch just before the joint to the stack. In England that is a building regs requirement, see page 8 onward: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADH_2002.pdf -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#19
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:12:23 -0700, Mr Uncalled-For wrote:
On Aug 15, 9:23 am, Mr Uncalled-For wrote: I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into Well, I checked with a plumber and apparently I would: * Not be permitted by 'building control' to use the strap-on-boss solution. * Would have to do it all in cast iron (externally, that is). You could cut into the pipe and fit a cast iron branch. There are various manufactures, but you can find a .pdf catalogue of the one I know most about at www.saint-gobain.co.uk - you'ld be looking for a Timesaver Soil catalogue where you'll find details of GT12 90x100mm stepped couplings designed for 3.5" LCC pipe and GT06 100mm branches. If the stepped couplings were frowned upon by the council then you'ld have to get a 3.5" LCC branch, they are still available. You did say that space is tight but maybe you can get a disc cutter to do most of the work. Do you have control over the whole stack or is someone above you. If the former, then you have the luxury of time for the installation at least. -- The email address, should you need it, does not need the NOT. |
#20
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:36:55 +0000, Colin Murphy wrote:
the one I know most about at www.saint-gobain.co.uk - Err, http://www.saint-gobain-pipelines.co.uk/ , is a much better link. -- The email address, should you need it, does not need the NOT. |
#21
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
In article , John Rumm
writes fred wrote: I was trying to work out the objection for the strap on but I suppose it the lack of a sweep meaning that passing fluids could go back up the branch. Sounds pretty remote to me. I thought of that when doing mine (in an enclosed location) and placed a step drop of about 150mm in the branch just before the joint to the stack. In England that is a building regs requirement, see page 8 onward: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADH_2002.pdf A good doc, now filed, thanks for that. I suspect the o/p's pipe is the grey water pipe for his part of the block (if it is a tenement) in which rain and non-foul waste is mixed (around here at least). -- fred Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla |
#22
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 16, 9:58 pm, fred wrote:
In article , John Rumm writesfred wrote: I was trying to work out the objection for the strap on but I suppose it the lack of a sweep meaning that passing fluids could go back up the branch. Sounds pretty remote to me. I thought of that when doing mine (in an enclosed location) and placed a step drop of about 150mm in the branch just before the joint to the stack. In England that is a building regs requirement, see page 8 onward: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADH_2002.pdf A good doc, now filed, thanks for that. Yeah. I've been having a whinge elsewhere in this group about how the equivalent website in Scotland only publishes a high level platitudinous version of the building regs. I suspect the o/p's pipe is the grey water pipe for his part of the block (if it is a tenement) in which rain and non-foul waste is mixed (around here at least). Yep that's the case. |
#23
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 16, 8:36 pm, Colin Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:12:23 -0700, Mr Uncalled-For wrote: On Aug 15, 9:23 am, Mr Uncalled-For wrote: I have a 3 1/2 inch drainpipe that I need to T into Well, I checked with a plumber and apparently I would: * Not be permitted by 'building control' to use the strap-on-boss solution. * Would have to do it all in cast iron (externally, that is). You could cut into the pipe and fit a cast iron branch. There are various manufactures, but you can find a .pdf catalogue of the one I know most about atwww.saint-gobain.co.uk- you'ld be looking for a Timesaver Soil catalogue where you'll find details of GT12 90x100mm stepped couplings designed for 3.5" LCC pipe and GT06 100mm branches. If the stepped couplings were frowned upon by the council then you'ld have to get a 3.5" LCC branch, they are still available. You did say that space is tight but maybe you can get a disc cutter to do most of the work. Do you have control over the whole stack or is someone above you. If the former, then you have the luxury of time for the installation at least. Actually, I've been drawing layouts using the data from the saint gobain site. It looks doable, apart from the fact that the timesaver couplings stick out quite far from the pipe and would probably neccessitate hacking into the brickwork on the close side at least. The LLC stuff is more compact, but longer so there is less space vertically. Unfortunately there's a flat upstairs that shares the same stack, but it is just the rainwater/grey water stack at least. |
#24
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 16, 10:25 pm, Mr Uncalled-For
wrote: I had a go at using google documents to publish some pictures of the situation: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dd8vc3rg_0cbmp2v There's a fair bit of hacking to be done just to expose the existing pipe. |
#25
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 16, 5:59 pm, fred wrote:
One of my (tenement) neighbours has had one done recently and a section of CI was cut out and a plastic branch grafted in with those universal rubber couplers. Not the tidiest of solutions but it was a new bathroom so should have been BC assessed. Fred, what local authority would that be? It could provide precedent. (Yes, I'm starting to talk about plumbing like a solicitor. It has come to this |
#26
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
In article . com,
Mr Uncalled-For writes On Aug 16, 5:59 pm, fred wrote: One of my (tenement) neighbours has had one done recently and a section of CI was cut out and a plastic branch grafted in with those universal rubber couplers. Not the tidiest of solutions but it was a new bathroom so should have been BC assessed. Fred, what local authority would that be? It could provide precedent. (Yes, I'm starting to talk about plumbing like a solicitor. It has come to this It's Glasgow City Council, in a conservation area and was completed in the last 8mths or so. If it's any help I can post a pic but TBH it looks like an example of how not to do a job, it looks like ****. In fact, here it is (note, this is not mine!): http://i14.tinypic.com/6gapmhv.jpg I've just noticed the one above is a bit neater, or so I thought: http://i15.tinypic.com/6bmmhar.jpg , the soil is neater, plastic branch into CI with I think CI direct into the plastic above. However, take a look at the branch on the skinny pipe, looks like a hole has been drilled and the pipe just poked in, how very Glasgow plumber :-/. This one is quite a bit older. Building control may be wanting CI to handle the weight of the stack, which I think is wrong, it should be on the supports. However, I saw an old build specification a long time ago that showed the bottom bend on the stack having a cast foot which was required to be supported, presumably to take the weight of the stack if need be but presumably only in the event of a failure of the fixings into the stonework. Just seen your pics in the other part of the thread and it looks er interesting :-) Reading the doc that John linked to I notice a requirement for a min 450mm between a the lowest branch and the base of the bottom bend, watch you don't get caught with that one. Good luck. -- fred Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla |
#27
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 17, 12:29 am, fred wrote:
In article . com, Mr Uncalled-For writesOn Aug 16, 5:59 pm, fred wrote: One of my (tenement) neighbours has had one done recently and a section of CI was cut out and a plastic branch grafted in with those universal rubber couplers. Not the tidiest of solutions but it was a new bathroom so should have been BC assessed. Fred, what local authority would that be? It could provide precedent. (Yes, I'm starting to talk about plumbing like a solicitor. It has come to this It's Glasgow City Council, in a conservation area and was completed in the last 8mths or so. If it's any help I can post a pic but TBH it looks like an example of how not to do a job, it looks like ****. In fact, here it is (note, this is not mine!):http://i14.tinypic.com/6gapmhv.jpg However, take a look at the branch on the skinny pipe, looks like a hole has been drilled and the pipe just poked in Yeah, I noticed that. Interesting! Reading the doc that John linked to I notice a requirement for a min 450mm between a the lowest branch and the base of the bottom bend, watch you don't get caught with that one. That is the one that I am hoping wont be a problem - it would require the drain to bend below about 200mm below the ground level. Not sure how you'd check that without digging or in this case lifting slabs, then digging. |
#28
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Strap boss for 3.5" cast iron pipe
On Aug 16, 5:59 pm, fred wrote:
One of my (tenement) neighbours has had one done recently and a section of CI was cut out and a plastic branch grafted in with those universal rubber couplers. Not the tidiest of solutions but it was a new bathroom so should have been BC assessed. For the record, I checked with building control and this isn't allowed in Edinburgh. You must 'maintain the integrity of the cast iron stack'. That's Edinburgh for ya. |
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