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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
It won't be safe, although this has nothing to do with floor strength
or other minor points. The usual reason for avoiding Building Regulations on converted lofts is because the conversion won't meet fire safety standards. It's not unusual to find a completely unprotected stairwell and an open plan kitchen/living room. SNIP Some very interesting points there Peter, thanks - I am a wiser man. I looked at a job last week, in a loft conversion. Proper stairs went up from the landing, solid wall one side, handrail the other side. The stairs emerged roughly in the middle of the conversion. The stairwell was 'boxed in' on three sides by a waist high solid partition. No door at the bottom or top of the stairs. The client said there was a terrible noise problem from this room (occupied by teenager) & wanted me to either lift the floorboards & install insulation or fit an insulated sub floor. I turned the job down because IMO neither would solve the noise problem & I didn't want to be in a situation where I'd charged for the work and not sorted the problem. My thoughts were that the large opening on the stair well was allowing the noise transmission & insulating the floor wouldn't achieve much. It now occurs to me that the room is a fire trap? Only escape via a Velux. Is that the case? -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#2
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I looked at a job last week, in a loft conversion. Proper stairs went up from the landing, solid wall one side, handrail the other side. The stairs emerged roughly in the middle of the conversion. The stairwell was 'boxed in' on three sides by a waist high solid partition. No door at the bottom or top of the stairs. IIRC, that can be acceptable if there is only one room in the loft, and the stairways themselves are protected (i.e. door to other habitable rooms that open onto the same landing or hall are fire resisting) There is quite bit on this in Approved doc B1: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl..._ADB1_2006.pdf The client said there was a terrible noise problem from this room (occupied by teenager) & wanted me to either lift the floorboards & install insulation or fit an insulated sub floor. That may deal with some types of noise, but by no means all. I turned the job down because IMO neither would solve the noise problem & I didn't want to be in a situation where I'd charged for the work and not sorted the problem. My thoughts were that the large opening on the stair well was allowing the noise transmission & insulating the floor wouldn't achieve much. Decoupling the floor would reduce foot fall noise and general creaking etc. It now occurs to me that the room is a fire trap? Only escape via a Velux. Is that the case? Was it a means of escape velux? Close enough to the eves so as to permit a ladder rescue? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#3
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 00:53:03 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, John Rumm
randomly hit the keyboard and produced: The Medway Handyman wrote: I looked at a job last week, in a loft conversion. Proper stairs went up from the landing, solid wall one side, handrail the other side. The stairs emerged roughly in the middle of the conversion. The stairwell was 'boxed in' on three sides by a waist high solid partition. No door at the bottom or top of the stairs. IIRC, that can be acceptable if there is only one room in the loft, and the stairways themselves are protected (i.e. door to other habitable rooms that open onto the same landing or hall are fire resisting) It's not really. The stair itself needs to be separated by a full height enclosure with a door at the top landing, or separated from the floor below by an enclosure and door at the bottom. Decoupling the floor would reduce foot fall noise and general creaking etc. Yes, but the 2m² hole in the floor would probably overwhelm any such effect. -- Hugo Nebula "If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?" |
#4
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
Hugo Nebula wrote:
IIRC, that can be acceptable if there is only one room in the loft, and the stairways themselves are protected (i.e. door to other habitable rooms that open onto the same landing or hall are fire resisting) It's not really. The stair itself needs to be separated by a full height enclosure with a door at the top landing, or separated from the floor below by an enclosure and door at the bottom. Would not a hall/landing that has all rooms that open on to it protected by fire doors not count as such an enclosure? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#5
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:57:09 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, John Rumm
randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Would not a hall/landing that has all rooms that open on to it protected by fire doors not count as such an enclosure? Is there a door between the loft conversion and the stairs to the ground floor? -- Hugo Nebula "If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?" |
#6
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
Hugo Nebula wrote:
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:57:09 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, John Rumm randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Would not a hall/landing that has all rooms that open on to it protected by fire doors not count as such an enclosure? Is there a door between the loft conversion and the stairs to the ground floor? In this hypothetical case, no. The front door opens onto a hall with stairs to first one landing then the loft conversion. All doors opening onto the same hall and landing being fire doors. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#7
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
Hugo Nebula wrote:
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:57:09 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, John Rumm randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Would not a hall/landing that has all rooms that open on to it protected by fire doors not count as such an enclosure? Is there a door between the loft conversion and the stairs to the ground floor? Actually no. -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#8
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
John Rumm wrote:
Hugo Nebula wrote: On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:57:09 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, John Rumm randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Would not a hall/landing that has all rooms that open on to it protected by fire doors not count as such an enclosure? Is there a door between the loft conversion and the stairs to the ground floor? In this hypothetical case, no. The front door opens onto a hall with stairs to first one landing then the loft conversion. All doors opening onto the same hall and landing being fire doors. In this actual case, none of the doors are fire doors, just el cheapo B&Q jobbies. -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#9
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
In this actual case, none of the doors are fire doors, just el cheapo B&Q jobbies. Several times when I've talked through with friends (that are about to move) about the house (or particularly flat) they're thinking of buying, they seem to have a complete disregard for physical fire protection - even when it's pointed out to them. Even the ones that are over-protective of their children and very risk- averse, don't seem to think fire doors and compartments as an essential if they're living in close proximity to other flats. Maybe the message about smoke alarms has been too loud - to the point of many people trusting one bit of technology to the exclusion of being concerned about any need for fire-resisting and fire-limiting buildings (and the need to not over-stuff their own house or flat with junk to the point of it being a ready-made bonfire). |
#11
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
wrote in message ups.com... In this actual case, none of the doors are fire doors, just el cheapo B&Q jobbies. Several times when I've talked through with friends (that are about to move) about the house (or particularly flat) they're thinking of buying, they seem to have a complete disregard for physical fire protection - even when it's pointed out to them. Even the ones that are over-protective of their children and very risk- averse, don't seem to think fire doors and compartments as an essential if they're living in close proximity to other flats. But sometimes the rules (IMHO) go too far. In my flat all of the doors (except the bathrooms) have closers, and all of the doors are stopped open in order to stop the rooms getting stuffy. And this isn't just me, the stops were in place when I viewed the flat so were used by the previous occupant as well. If I owned this flat the closers would come off. The regs may make them a requirement, but the reality is that the average occupant finds them a pain and would rather that they weren't there. As the doors are stopped open all the time, they don't serve their purpose, so what's the point of having them? tim |
#12
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What Peter Parry said & Noise reduction
tim..... wrote:
If I owned this flat the closers would come off. The regs may make them a requirement, but the reality is that the average occupant finds them a pain and would rather that they weren't there. As the doors are stopped open all the time, they don't serve their purpose, so what's the point of having them? Perhaps this is why regs now no longer require them? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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