[Lobster]

I posted this a while back:

On May 29, 6:15 am, Lobster wrote:
ISTR Zircon being mentioned here before as being the only type worth
having, right? They seem to do zillions of them - which model(s) are
the ones to go for - any of them? I'm off to the Land of the Free
fairly soon, where I believe they're about half the price they are here,
so I might just avail myself of one...

....the replies indicated that the Triscanner Pro was definitely the
one to go for.

Anyway, I'm now posting from across the Pond and have called in to a
"Home Depot" looking for one of these. They don't seem to sell them,
but have a considerable other range of Zircon sensors, including their
Multiscanner i500 OneStep for 20 quid, or the i700 OneStep for 25
quid. These are evidently 'higher' spec than the Triscanner Pro, and
as far as I can see from the blurb on their website, seems to use the
same technology??

http://www.zircon.com/SellPages/ScanAndSensor/i700/i700.html

So I'm just wondering whether anybody has tried either of these
Multiscanners and can vouch for them?

One thing which worried me slightly (from the link above) is mention
of erasable marker tips which you can order from customer services in
the US (read: unobtainable in the UK!) so I wonder whether the device
will work OK once the supplied marker tip has run out?

Thanks a lot
David

PS - I know everyone hates a smug ******* (me included) but just take
a look at the view from my window today:
http://img.photoamp.com/pa/07/07/31/scRrS1sPN.JPG
(Sorry...)

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-08-01 00:00:31 +0100, Lobster said:

I posted this a while back:

On May 29, 6:15 am, Lobster wrote:
ISTR Zircon being mentioned here before as being the only type worth
having, right? They seem to do zillions of them - which model(s) are
the ones to go for - any of them? I'm off to the Land of the Free
fairly soon, where I believe they're about half the price they are here,
so I might just avail myself of one...

...the replies indicated that the Triscanner Pro was definitely the
one to go for.

Anyway, I'm now posting from across the Pond and have called in to a
"Home Depot" looking for one of these.

Interesting how Kingfisher has B&Q already packaged as a Home Depot
ready company - wouldn't even need to change the signage.

You could also take a look in Lowes if there is one. They are number 2
worldwide after HD and before Kingfisher.


They don't seem to sell them,
but have a considerable other range of Zircon sensors, including their
Multiscanner i500 OneStep for 20 quid, or the i700 OneStep for 25
quid. These are evidently 'higher' spec than the Triscanner Pro, and
as far as I can see from the blurb on their website, seems to use the
same technology??

http://www.zircon.com/SellPages/ScanAndSensor/i700/i700.html

So I'm just wondering whether anybody has tried either of these
Multiscanners and can vouch for them?

Yes I have one. It is a bit more sensitive than the Triscanner Pro,
producing a more definitive indication of edge of a stud.







One thing which worried me slightly (from the link above) is mention
of erasable marker tips which you can order from customer services in
the US (read: unobtainable in the UK!) so I wonder whether the device
will work OK once the supplied marker tip has run out?

Yes, Really it's not essential for operation. When you have the
device in position, you press a tit and it puts a mark on the wall for
you. This is helpful for Americans who are still working in
deprecated imperial units rather than following the Napoleonic Ideal.

However, you can just as easily mark the wall with a pencil.



Thanks a lot
David

PS - I know everyone hates a smug ******* (me included) but just take
a look at the view from my window today:
http://img.photoamp.com/pa/07/07/31/scRrS1sPN.JPG
(Sorry...)

Arizona?

A few tips for you for the return.

- You can bring back £145 worth of goods - i.e. $300 or so and have it
exempt from duty and VAT. Duty on tools is in the 1.5-3% range
depending on item.

- The TSA will almost certainly inspect what you have. If you have
lockable luggage, you need to leave it unlocked unless the locks can be
opened with a TSA key - a red logo shows this. Otherwise, they will
break the locks to look. One solution is to buy a suitcase strap
with a TSA combination lock in the buckle and then leave the case
unlocked on its own locks. Alternatively, if you end up with a fair
amount of stuff, a good solution is to buy a stout cardboard box from
Office Depot plus some styrofoam packing popcorn and packaging tape -
$20 max the lot. The TSA will still inspect, but seem not to turn
everything upside down. Do take care about luggage weight *and* size
and number of pieces. Excess baggage charges have become even more
ridiculous than before - a classic distress purchase.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 31, 5:44 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-08-01 00:00:31 +0100, Lobster said:

So I'm just wondering whether anybody has tried either of these
Multiscanners and can vouch for them?

Yes I have one. It is a bit more sensitive than the Triscanner Pro,
producing a more definitive indication of edge of a stud.

Excellent!

One thing which worried me slightly (from the link above) is mention
of erasable marker tips which you can order from customer services in
the US (read: unobtainable in the UK!) so I wonder whether the device
will work OK once the supplied marker tip has run out?

Yes, Really it's not essential for operation. When you have the
device in position, you press a tit and it puts a mark on the wall for
you. This is helpful for Americans who are still working in
deprecated imperial units rather than following the Napoleonic Ideal.

However, you can just as easily mark the wall with a pencil.

Great - that's what I was hoping but was just a bit worried that the
marker bit might be more 'essential' than that.

PS - I know everyone hates a smug ******* (me included) but just take
a look at the view from my window today:
http://img.photoamp.com/pa/07/07/31/scRrS1sPN.JPG
(Sorry...)

Arizona?

Yup - Monument Valley to be precise.

A few tips for you for the return.

snip

Thanks - that's very useful to know. I had been eyeing up the power
tools at Home Depot as they're so cheap compared to home; however I
think the SWMBO veto might come into play as we're already choc-a-
block and trying to travel light... we'll see!

Many thanks for the help Andy.
David

[Ian White]

Andy Hall wrote:

- The TSA will almost certainly inspect what you have. If you have
lockable luggage, you need to leave it unlocked unless the locks can be
opened with a TSA key - a red logo shows this. Otherwise, they will
break the locks to look. One solution is to buy a suitcase strap
with a TSA combination lock in the buckle and then leave the case
unlocked on its own locks.
Alternatively, if you end up with a fair amount of stuff, a good
solution is to buy a stout cardboard box from Office Depot plus some
styrofoam packing popcorn and packaging tape - $20 max the lot. The
TSA will still inspect, but seem not to turn everything upside down.

Every item of hold baggage is x-rayed, and is likely to be opened if it
contains something that they can't identify from the screen. If the TSA
do open anything, they will insert an "Inspected by TSA" slip before
closing up.

If your hold baggage contains any unusual objects, then pack them so
they can easily be inspected. If it's something highly specialised,
stick an explanatory note on each item. For some electronic test
equipment bought on eBay, I used a printout of the auction page which
included a photograph, and added a note to confirm that I had checked
inside.

There's no firm evidence that it does any good, but it certainly isn't
doing any harm. On several occasions I have found a "TSA woz here" slip
placed right on top of my note, and nothing has ever been lost or
interfered with.



--
Ian White

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-08-01 02:05:43 +0100, said:


Thanks - that's very useful to know. I had been eyeing up the power
tools at Home Depot as they're so cheap compared to home; however I
think the SWMBO veto might come into play as we're already choc-a-
block and trying to travel light... we'll see!

Many thanks for the help Andy.
David

Don't forget that you can use her allowance as well, or does she have
that earmarked for baubles? Tell her that American ones are without
taste and that power tools are a much more worthwhile investment.

Meanwhile....

If you do buy 110v power tools, do check that the motors are universal
and that they will tolerate 50Hz. Generally they do. For use in
the UK, you would need a yellow site transformer. If you think you
might buy more than one power tool, then HD sells quite rugged U.S.
power strips for site use. Chop off the plug and you can wire it
into an IEC plug when you get home. Otherwise, same plug on the tool
itself.

Cordless tools are easier. On the better ones, the charger
autoranges and will happily run on 220-240v as well as 100-120v. For
the 110v only ones, an autotransformer of 100 watts or so from RS would
take care of it. Again think about how you plug it in - wallwart
chargers need a power strip.

If you do shop at HD, ask them to open the box at the checkout and show
you the contents...

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-08-01 08:26:51 +0100, Ian White said:

Andy Hall wrote:

- The TSA will almost certainly inspect what you have. If you have
lockable luggage, you need to leave it unlocked unless the locks can be
opened with a TSA key - a red logo shows this. Otherwise, they will
break the locks to look. One solution is to buy a suitcase strap
with a TSA combination lock in the buckle and then leave the case
unlocked on its own locks.
Alternatively, if you end up with a fair amount of stuff, a good
solution is to buy a stout cardboard box from Office Depot plus some
styrofoam packing popcorn and packaging tape - $20 max the lot. The
TSA will still inspect, but seem not to turn everything upside down.

Every item of hold baggage is x-rayed, and is likely to be opened if it
contains something that they can't identify from the screen. If the TSA
do open anything, they will insert an "Inspected by TSA" slip before
closing up.

If your hold baggage contains any unusual objects, then pack them so
they can easily be inspected. If it's something highly specialised,
stick an explanatory note on each item. For some electronic test
equipment bought on eBay, I used a printout of the auction page which
included a photograph, and added a note to confirm that I had checked
inside.

There's no firm evidence that it does any good, but it certainly isn't
doing any harm. On several occasions I have found a "TSA woz here" slip
placed right on top of my note, and nothing has ever been lost or
interfered with.

True. They also do video surveillance of the inspection area and the
visiting slip has the inspector's number

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-08-01 11:56:14 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
One thing which worried me slightly (from the link above) is mention
of erasable marker tips ....
Yes, Really it's not essential for operation. When you have the
device in position, you press a tit and it puts a mark on the wall for
you. This is helpful for Americans who are still working in
deprecated imperial units rather than following the Napoleonic Ideal.

Why would the measurement system make a difference? Surely it's so
Americans can have do the job one-handed with their gun in the other?

Owain

HD sells contractors' calculators that perform arithmetic on 32nds and
so on. Such is the ridiculous extent of non-decimal measurement.

[Derek Geldard]

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:19:43 +0100, Owain
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
HD sells contractors' calculators that perform arithmetic on 32nds and
so on. Such is the ridiculous extent of non-decimal measurement.

I don't see why adding up in 32nds is any more difficult than adding up
in 10ths, unless someone is arithmetically retarded. If one converts to
binary one can do it comfortably on the fingers and still have several
digits left for whole units.




The first machines I worked on outputed in 6 digit 2* 421 BCD ( Why?)

Later machines I worked on output-ed in 6 digit 8421 BCD

After that I used to debug "Digital" (DEC) 8 bit computers in octal,
that was very easy.

But, I never did come to terms with Hexadecimal. So IGWS that mental
manipulation of 32 bit words would be out of the question.

Maybe with practice I could do mental 32 bit arithmetic as 4x8 bit
manipulations in quad precision, but TBH a bit OTT Eg. for measuring a
Ca. 1974 roof tile on top of a ladder to source a replacement.

Certainly the case for the average trailer park Yank. Just as well I
suppose that he wouldn't have any roof tiles.

As regards fractional units of measurement the system we had in the UK
worked perfectly well because we also had a monetary system which was
based on fractions, the kids were rigourously taught both at school
(So obviously that wouldn't work now). We had absolutely no problem..

All our grandparents who left school at age 12 or 14 had no difficulty
whatsoever in counting their money, or buying 2 +1/2 ounces of corned
beef at one and six pence per ounce USW. Without being ripped off.

The answer is "Three and ninepence" BTW.

Still the most efficient way to pack 10 bottles of wine, is to make a
case for twelve and leave 2 spaces empty, of course this weakens the
package.

BTW, I know very well that 32 bits and 32nds of an inch, (or an
elephant) don't compare , but YSWIM. ;-)

DG

[raden]

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-08-01 00:00:31 +0100, Lobster said:

I posted this a while back:
On May 29, 6:15 am, Lobster wrote:
ISTR Zircon being mentioned here before as being the only type worth
having, right? They seem to do zillions of them - which model(s) are
the ones to go for - any of them? I'm off to the Land of the Free
fairly soon, where I believe they're about half the price they are here,
so I might just avail myself of one...
...the replies indicated that the Triscanner Pro was definitely the
one to go for.
Anyway, I'm now posting from across the Pond and have called in to a
"Home Depot" looking for one of these.

Interesting how Kingfisher has B&Q already packaged as a Home Depot
ready company - wouldn't even need to change the signage.

You could also take a look in Lowes if there is one. They are number 2
worldwide after HD and before Kingfisher.


They don't seem to sell them,
but have a considerable other range of Zircon sensors, including their
Multiscanner i500 OneStep for 20 quid, or the i700 OneStep for 25
quid. These are evidently 'higher' spec than the Triscanner Pro, and
as far as I can see from the blurb on their website, seems to use the
same technology??
http://www.zircon.com/SellPages/ScanAndSensor/i700/i700.html
So I'm just wondering whether anybody has tried either of these
Multiscanners and can vouch for them?

Yes I have one. It is a bit more sensitive than the Triscanner Pro,
producing a more definitive indication of edge of a stud.






One thing which worried me slightly (from the link above) is mention
of erasable marker tips which you can order from customer services in
the US (read: unobtainable in the UK!) so I wonder whether the device
will work OK once the supplied marker tip has run out?

Yes, Really it's not essential for operation. When you have the
device in position, you press a tit and it puts a mark on the wall for
you. This is helpful for Americans who are still working in
deprecated imperial units rather than following the Napoleonic Ideal.


Didn't you see that article about evidence that the metric system was
invented in England long before those johnny onion sellers did
--
geoff

[Frank Erskine]

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 20:35:14 +0100, Derek Geldard
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:19:43 +0100, Owain
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
HD sells contractors' calculators that perform arithmetic on 32nds and
so on. Such is the ridiculous extent of non-decimal measurement.

I don't see why adding up in 32nds is any more difficult than adding up
in 10ths, unless someone is arithmetically retarded. If one converts to
binary one can do it comfortably on the fingers and still have several
digits left for whole units.




The first machines I worked on outputed in 6 digit 2* 421 BCD ( Why?)

Later machines I worked on output-ed in 6 digit 8421 BCD

After that I used to debug "Digital" (DEC) 8 bit computers in octal,
that was very easy.

But, I never did come to terms with Hexadecimal. So IGWS that mental
manipulation of 32 bit words would be out of the question.

Maybe with practice I could do mental 32 bit arithmetic as 4x8 bit
manipulations in quad precision, but TBH a bit OTT Eg. for measuring a
Ca. 1974 roof tile on top of a ladder to source a replacement.

Certainly the case for the average trailer park Yank. Just as well I
suppose that he wouldn't have any roof tiles.

As regards fractional units of measurement the system we had in the UK
worked perfectly well because we also had a monetary system which was
based on fractions, the kids were rigourously taught both at school
(So obviously that wouldn't work now). We had absolutely no problem..

All our grandparents who left school at age 12 or 14 had no difficulty
whatsoever in counting their money, or buying 2 +1/2 ounces of corned
beef at one and six pence per ounce USW. Without being ripped off.

The answer is "Three and ninepence" BTW.

Still the most efficient way to pack 10 bottles of wine, is to make a
case for twelve and leave 2 spaces empty, of course this weakens the
package.

BTW, I know very well that 32 bits and 32nds of an inch, (or an
elephant) don't compare , but YSWIM. ;-)

DG

It seems that Andy is the only person to have a problem with his
deprecated units of measurement. Everybody else in 'real life' seems
to manage quite happily with either.

I'm all for personal choice :-)

I've never been an absolute whizz-kid at maths, but coped well enough
at 11+ and GCE in 'deprecated units'. I really don't see the need to
dumb down just for the sake of it, such as using '6·35mm' jack 'plugs'
(or indeed router bits!), which have been ¼" for decades, and will
likely be for many more years.

--
Frank Erskine

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-08-01 17:19:43 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
HD sells contractors' calculators that perform arithmetic on 32nds and
so on. Such is the ridiculous extent of non-decimal measurement.

I don't see why adding up in 32nds is any more difficult than adding up
in 10ths, unless someone is arithmetically retarded. If one converts to
binary one can do it comfortably on the fingers and still have several
digits left for whole units.

Owain

You know that and I know that, but the average contractor doesn't.

If you work in millimetres, you are adding whole numbers in terms of
construction applications or decimal parts thereof in engineering and
fine work.

If you work in tenths of a deprecated unit, then the granularity is not
good enough.

If you work in 32nds, then you have to add the pieces and subtract 32s
rather than just shifting the decimal point.

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-08-02 00:17:51 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

It seems that Andy is the only person to have a problem with his
deprecated units of measurement. Everybody else in 'real life' seems
to manage quite happily with either.

There isn't a problem at all, other than if one mixes units, the
chances of errors increase dramatically



I'm all for personal choice :-)

I've never been an absolute whizz-kid at maths, but coped well enough
at 11+ and GCE in 'deprecated units'.

So do I, but the concept is still stupid.


I really don't see the need to
dumb down just for the sake of it, such as using '6·35mm' jack 'plugs'
(or indeed router bits!), which have been ¼" for decades, and will
likely be for many more years.

I'm sure that the sizes won't change, but the units of expression have
and will.

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-08-01 21:59:15 +0100, raden said:

Didn't you see that article about evidence that the metric system was
invented in England long before those johnny onion sellers did

Missed that one.


It appears that Onion Johnnies are a dying species as well