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Default circuit breaker problem (fuse box) advice needed.

I've just had an electrician around who says my lazer printer may be
surging in its power usage which trips the overload protector switches
(what used to be fuses).

If this is the case, I will find out, but I have a problem with
printing now - what do I do to protect the mains ring from tripping if
the printer does indeed overload it? The electrician says the fuses
on the box are pretty standard (40 watt limit I think he said).

The electrician says he has encountered this before. So the printer
overloading is probably the problem (I suppose they use a lot of
watts).

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Default circuit breaker problem (fuse box) advice needed.

wrote:

I've just had an electrician around who says my lazer printer may be
surging in its power usage which trips the overload protector switches
(what used to be fuses).

If this is the case, I will find out, but I have a problem with
printing now - what do I do to protect the mains ring from tripping if
the printer does indeed overload it? The electrician says the fuses
on the box are pretty standard (40 watt limit I think he said).

The electrician says he has encountered this before. So the printer
overloading is probably the problem (I suppose they use a lot of
watts).


It sounds to me like your electrician doesnt know what he is talking
about.
I am assuming you have a domestic/small office printer?
If so, then there is no way such a device, if in good order, can cause
such a surge to trip a 13amp CB, never mind a 32/40 amp ring main CB.
Have you got loads of different electrical items running on the same
circuit at the same time?
If so, then they may be running near to capacity, and plugging the
printer in and its consequent extra power consumption may take the
circuit breaker above its capacity, but I doubt this will be the case.
More likely that there is a fault with the printer or its lead, causing
the CB to trip, or the CB is faulty itself.
Alan.
--
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In article . com,
wrote:
I've just had an electrician around who says my lazer printer may be
surging in its power usage which trips the overload protector switches
(what used to be fuses).


If this is the case, I will find out, but I have a problem with
printing now - what do I do to protect the mains ring from tripping if
the printer does indeed overload it? The electrician says the fuses
on the box are pretty standard (40 watt limit I think he said).


The electrician says he has encountered this before. So the printer
overloading is probably the problem (I suppose they use a lot of
watts).


Sure he wasn't talking about an RCD rather than MCB - the latter replaces
fuses in a CU. The clue would be if more than the one circuit was tripped
by the fault. An RCD would normally protect either the entire CU or a
subset of MCBs within it.

If the printer is plugged into a normal ring main and that MCB is tripping
there's something very wrong - the plug fuse in the printer should go
first.

--
*Confession is good for the soul, but bad for your career.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default circuit breaker problem (fuse box) advice needed.

wrote:

I've just had an electrician around who says my lazer printer may be
surging in its power usage which trips the overload protector switches
(what used to be fuses).


The only way this makes any sense is if your circuit is already loaded
upto and probably beyond the maximum. This seems unlikely but is
possible - you would need something like 8kW or more of loading on a
ring circuit to get into this state. The laser printer may have an
"instant on" fuser that draws 10A or so for a short burst to heat the
fuser when you start printing.

If this is the case, I will find out, but I have a problem with
printing now - what do I do to protect the mains ring from tripping if
the printer does indeed overload it?


Supply if from a different circuit.

The electrician says the fuses
on the box are pretty standard (40 watt limit I think he said).


I expect you misheard that bit...

The electrician says he has encountered this before. So the printer
overloading is probably the problem (I suppose they use a lot of
watts).


They can use a significant amount compare to most bits of IT kit, but I
have never heard of it being a problem in a domestic environment.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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Default circuit breaker problem (fuse box) advice needed.


wrote in message
ups.com...
I've just had an electrician around who says my lazer printer may be
surging in its power usage which trips the overload protector switches
(what used to be fuses).

If this is the case, I will find out, but I have a problem with
printing now - what do I do to protect the mains ring from tripping if
the printer does indeed overload it? The electrician says the fuses
on the box are pretty standard (40 watt limit I think he said).

The electrician says he has encountered this before. So the printer
overloading is probably the problem (I suppose they use a lot of
watts).


As a matter of interest my new Brother laser printer uses nearly 500Watts
whilst it is printing the first page. After that the usage drops off
somewhat. To reduce the amount of power taken by the printer set the
printing media to Card and it slows down the number of pages printed per
minute thus reducing the power required.

Andrew.


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Default circuit breaker problem (fuse box) advice needed.



"instant on" fuser that draws 10A or so for a short burst to heat the
fuser when you start printing.


I have heard a figure of 40A inrush mentioned, Like here
http://www.crs-uk.biz/pdf/HP_1100.pdf
Doesn't say how many mS, but MCBs are fast acting.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%


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Graham wrote:
"instant on" fuser that draws 10A or so for a short burst to heat the
fuser when you start printing.


I have heard a figure of 40A inrush mentioned, Like here
http://www.crs-uk.biz/pdf/HP_1100.pdf
Doesn't say how many mS, but MCBs are fast acting.


Fast acting yes, but you would need 160A to push a type B 32A MCB into
its instantaneous trip response. (or 100A for a 20A MCB on a radial)

(note also that laser printer don't usually blow their plug fuses)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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Default circuit breaker problem (fuse box) advice needed.

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 01:09:13 +0100, John Rumm
mused:

Graham wrote:
"instant on" fuser that draws 10A or so for a short burst to heat the
fuser when you start printing.


I have heard a figure of 40A inrush mentioned, Like here
http://www.crs-uk.biz/pdf/HP_1100.pdf
Doesn't say how many mS, but MCBs are fast acting.


Fast acting yes, but you would need 160A to push a type B 32A MCB into
its instantaneous trip response. (or 100A for a 20A MCB on a radial)

(note also that laser printer don't usually blow their plug fuses)


I suspect the electrician has read something similar to the above but
not really understood it.
--
Regards,
Stuart.
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On 15 Jul, 00:58, "Graham" wrote:

"instant on" fuser that draws 10A or so for a short burst to heat the
fuser when you start printing.


I have heard a figure of 40A inrush mentioned, Like herehttp://www.crs-uk.biz/pdf/HP_1100.pdf
Doesn't say how many mS, but MCBs are fast acting.


Lots of appliances have inrush current figures of 40A and higher. It
means nothing.

If the printer is popping a trip then the pr is almost certainly
faulty.


NT



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Default circuit breaker problem (fuse box) advice needed.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Might be the last straw that breaks the camels back..Although things are
better today, the inrush on a roomful of PC and monitior SMPS's was
enough to flip a 30A MCB in my day.


Had to be switched on one at a time..


Rings are designed for domestic use where diversity applies. A roomful of
PCs suggests commercial use and the circuits should be designed for that
purpose.

--
*The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default circuit breaker problem (fuse box) advice needed.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Might be the last straw that breaks the camels back..Although things are
better today, the inrush on a roomful of PC and monitior SMPS's was
enough to flip a 30A MCB in my day.


Had to be switched on one at a time..


Rings are designed for domestic use where diversity applies. A roomful of
PCs suggests commercial use and the circuits should be designed for that
purpose.


However the average house is getting more like a commercial operation
every day.
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Default circuit breaker problem (fuse box) advice needed.

He did mention RCD. It's not my printer though - this was unplugged
last night when the power went off.

Now I think it's my alarm.

On Jul 14, 11:17 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article . com,
writes:

I've just had an electrician around who says my lazer printer may be
surging in its power usage which trips the overload protector switches
(what used to be fuses).


If this is the case, I will find out, but I have a problem with
printing now - what do I do to protect the mains ring from tripping if
the printer does indeed overload it? The electrician says the fuses
on the box are pretty standard (40 watt limit I think he said).


The electrician says he has encountered this before. So the printer
overloading is probably the problem (I suppose they use a lot of
watts).


I suspect you've got what he said mixed up.
My guess is your laser printer is generating
excessive earth leakage and tripping an RCD.
Does that sound more like what the electrician
said?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]



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On Jul 14, 11:18 am, (A.Lee) wrote:
wrote:
I've just had an electrician around who says my lazer printer may be
surging in its power usage which trips the overload protector switches
(what used to be fuses).


If this is the case, I will find out, but I have a problem with
printing now - what do I do to protect the mains ring from tripping if
the printer does indeed overload it? The electrician says the fuses
on the box are pretty standard (40 watt limit I think he said).


The electrician says he has encountered this before. So the printer
overloading is probably the problem (I suppose they use a lot of
watts).


It sounds to me like your electrician doesnt know what he is talking
about.
I am assuming you have a domestic/small office printer?
If so, then there is no way such a device, if in good order, can cause
such a surge to trip a 13amp CB, never mind a 32/40 amp ring main CB.
Have you got loads of different electrical items running on the same
circuit at the same time?
If so, then they may be running near to capacity, and plugging the
printer in and its consequent extra power consumption may take the
circuit breaker above its capacity, but I doubt this will be the case.
More likely that there is a fault with the printer or its lead, causing
the CB to trip, or the CB is faulty itself.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.


thanks



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On Jul 15, 6:15 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Might be the last straw that breaks the camels back..Although things are
better today, the inrush on a roomful of PC and monitior SMPS's was
enough to flip a 30A MCB in my day.


Had to be switched on one at a time..


Rings are designed for domestic use where diversity applies. A roomful of
PCs suggests commercial use and the circuits should be designed for that
purpose.


However the average house is getting more like a commercial operation
every day


(reply to all)

It goes off at night. I left everything unplugged last night even the
fridge.
I think now it's the alarm. I'm thinking of snipping the wires from
the transformer
to the circuit board within the alarm to prove this. Is this wise?

I leave the alarm turned off at night.









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In article . com,
wrote:
He did mention RCD. It's not my printer though - this was unplugged
last night when the power went off.


Now I think it's my alarm.


The most likely thing is something with some types of heating element.
Like a water heater, cooker, washing machine etc. These can go 'leaky' and
cause an RCD to trip - even when appearing to work normally. And if not
isolated by a double pole switch can even cause problems when switched
off. Isolating that circuit via the CU MCB won't sort the problem either
as these are a single pole switch.

The cooker and immersion *should* be isolated fully by their double pole
master switches. Washing machines etc by unplugging. You can save yourself
a deal of cost by finding out just what is causing the problem.

It could be the burglar alarm, but this would be well down my list to
check. It should also have a double pole isolating FCU - but some older
ones were single pole.

--
*Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On Jul 16, 11:01 am,
wrote:
On Jul 15, 6:15 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Might be the last straw that breaks the camels back..Although things are
better today, the inrush on a roomful of PC and monitior SMPS's was
enough to flip a 30A MCB in my day.


Had to be switched on one at a time..


Rings are designed for domestic use where diversity applies. A roomful of
PCs suggests commercial use and the circuits should be designed for that
purpose.


However the average house is getting more like a commercial operation
every day


(reply to all)

It goes off at night. I left everything unplugged last night even the
fridge.
I think now it's the alarm. I'm thinking of snipping the wires from
the transformer
to the circuit board within the alarm to prove this. Is this wise?

I leave the alarm turned off at night.


By the way the alarm will go off *sometimes* when I turn the power
back on from the
main trip switch.

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By the way the alarm will go off *sometimes* when I turn the power
back on from the
main trip switch.

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On Jul 16, 11:09 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

He did mention RCD. It's not my printer though - this was unplugged
last night when the power went off.
Now I think it's my alarm.


The most likely thing is something with some types of heating element.
Like a water heater, cooker, washing machine etc. These can go 'leaky' and
cause an RCD to trip - even when appearing to work normally. And if not
isolated by a double pole switch can even cause problems when switched
off. Isolating that circuit via the CU MCB won't sort the problem either
as these are a single pole switch.

The cooker and immersion *should* be isolated fully by their double pole
master switches. Washing machines etc by unplugging. You can save yourself
a deal of cost by finding out just what is causing the problem.

It could be the burglar alarm, but this would be well down my list to
check. It should also have a double pole isolating FCU - but some older
ones were single pole.

--
*Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


I've found the main switch to the heating is on. I have turned that
off.
The secondary trip switches for the heating were all off though.

I'll see how that goes. Everything else is unplugged.



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In article .com,
wrote:
It goes off at night. I left everything unplugged last night even the
fridge. I think now it's the alarm. I'm thinking of snipping the wires
from the transformer to the circuit board within the alarm to prove
this. Is this wise?


Are you a troll? Most would disconnect the mains supply to the unit first.

I leave the alarm turned off at night.


Unless you remove the mains from it, it has still active parts.

--
*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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wrote:

He did mention RCD. It's not my printer though - this was unplugged
last night when the power went off.

Now I think it's my alarm.


Seems unlikely....

You may find this useful if it is an RCD related problem:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=RCD


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 03:01:47 -0700,
mused:

On Jul 15, 6:15 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Might be the last straw that breaks the camels back..Although things are
better today, the inrush on a roomful of PC and monitior SMPS's was
enough to flip a 30A MCB in my day.


Had to be switched on one at a time..


Rings are designed for domestic use where diversity applies. A roomful of
PCs suggests commercial use and the circuits should be designed for that
purpose.


However the average house is getting more like a commercial operation
every day


(reply to all)

It goes off at night. I left everything unplugged last night even the
fridge.
I think now it's the alarm. I'm thinking of snipping the wires from
the transformer
to the circuit board within the alarm to prove this. Is this wise?

No. All this will do is leave the internal battery to take over which
will eventually discharge, anywhere between 5 minutes and a fair few
hours, and then possibly everything will start ringing\wailing.

Your battery is also probably knackered, hence the sounding of sirens
when power is turned on\off.

I leave the alarm turned off at night.

Makes no difference, it's still using power and is still monitoring
the 24H circuits.

From what you've said so far I'd leave well alone if I were you and
get a 2nd opinion on the problem, from another electrician.
--
Regards,
Stuart.
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On Jul 17, 12:04 am, Lurch wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 03:01:47 -0700,
mused:



On Jul 15, 6:15 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Might be the last straw that breaks the camels back..Although things are
better today, the inrush on a roomful of PC and monitior SMPS's was
enough to flip a 30A MCB in my day.


Had to be switched on one at a time..


Rings are designed for domestic use where diversity applies. A roomful of
PCs suggests commercial use and the circuits should be designed for that
purpose.


However the average house is getting more like a commercial operation
every day


(reply to all)


It goes off at night. I left everything unplugged last night even the
fridge.
I think now it's the alarm. I'm thinking of snipping the wires from
the transformer
to the circuit board within the alarm to prove this. Is this wise?


No. All this will do is leave the internal battery to take over which
will eventually discharge, anywhere between 5 minutes and a fair few
hours, and then possibly everything will start ringing\wailing.

Your battery is also probably knackered, hence the sounding of sirens
when power is turned on\off.

I leave the alarm turned off at night.


Makes no difference, it's still using power and is still monitoring
the 24H circuits.

From what you've said so far I'd leave well alone if I were you and
get a 2nd opinion on the problem, from another electrician.
--
Regards,
Stuart.


the electrician solved it some wire touching on a plug

thankyou

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On Jul 17, 12:04 am, Lurch wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 03:01:47 -0700,
mused:



On Jul 15, 6:15 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Might be the last straw that breaks the camels back..Although things are
better today, the inrush on a roomful of PC and monitior SMPS's was
enough to flip a 30A MCB in my day.


Had to be switched on one at a time..


Rings are designed for domestic use where diversity applies. A roomful of
PCs suggests commercial use and the circuits should be designed for that
purpose.


However the average house is getting more like a commercial operation
every day


(reply to all)


It goes off at night. I left everything unplugged last night even the
fridge.
I think now it's the alarm. I'm thinking of snipping the wires from
the transformer
to the circuit board within the alarm to prove this. Is this wise?


No. All this will do is leave the internal battery to take over which
will eventually discharge, anywhere between 5 minutes and a fair few
hours, and then possibly everything will start ringing\wailing.

Your battery is also probably knackered, hence the sounding of sirens
when power is turned on\off.

I leave the alarm turned off at night.


Makes no difference, it's still using power and is still monitoring
the 24H circuits.

From what you've said so far I'd leave well alone if I were you and
get a 2nd opinion on the problem, from another electrician.
--
Regards,
Stuart.


plug socket it was
not my plug

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