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#1
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My Final post about central heating.
Firstly, my thanks to all who have helped, argued, discussed and
generally nosed around in my quest for the perfect CH system for my little house. With your help I designed a system, bought the bits and have now installed the wet bits. (Including a weekend without hot water as I ran out of pipe on a Friday night). I was chuffed to bits when I pressurised it for the first time and only had one leak in a copper elbow that was a bugger to get to behind a joist. BUT. I think I am going to hang myself. As soon as I walk away from the keyboard. Sigh. My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. So after the work I'm stuffed. The zone valves are in manual open mode so the system still works as a normal un zoned system, so all is not lost. But the zone idea is out of the window now. The controllers and stuff will be going back to the supplier in the morning, no problem there. They're still in their box's unused. The pipe work for the two zones will stay in place as ONE day if this house lasts long enough, it may need a new boiler and the new heating engineer can marvel at the readymade pipe work. If left unused the two port valves will probably fur up, so I may as well take them out and try to sell them on ebay or in the local rag and get at least a few quid back from them. Don't you just HATE days like this? Excuse me... hangs head out of window "AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... gurgle" OK, You may all laugh hysterically now. I'll have my coat please. It's that straight jacket over there........... |
#2
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My Final post about central heating.
"Mike Barnard" wrote.. My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. Which model boiler do you have? I have a 24Ri condensing non-combi which serves 2 heating zones and 1 hot water zone. Phil |
#3
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My Final post about central heating.
"TheScullster" wrote in message . uk... "Mike Barnard" wrote.. My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. Which model boiler do you have? I have a 24Ri condensing non-combi which serves 2 heating zones and 1 hot water zone. The end switches on the zone valves can be a part of the room stat circuit. All off the boiler is off. The time clock energises the zone valves. |
#4
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My Final post about central heating.
Mike Barnard wrote:
Firstly, my thanks to all who have helped, argued, discussed and generally nosed around in my quest for the perfect CH system for my little house. With your help I designed a system, bought the bits and have now installed the wet bits. (Including a weekend without hot water as I ran out of pipe on a Friday night). I was chuffed to bits when I pressurised it for the first time and only had one leak in a copper elbow that was a bugger to get to behind a joist. BUT. I think I am going to hang myself. As soon as I walk away from the keyboard. Sigh. My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. So after the work I'm stuffed. The zone valves are in manual open mode so the system still works as a normal un zoned system, so all is not lost. But the zone idea is out of the window now. The controllers and stuff will be going back to the supplier in the morning, no problem there. They're still in their box's unused. The pipe work for the two zones will stay in place as ONE day if this house lasts long enough, it may need a new boiler and the new heating engineer can marvel at the readymade pipe work. If left unused the two port valves will probably fur up, so I may as well take them out and try to sell them on ebay or in the local rag and get at least a few quid back from them. Don't you just HATE days like this? Excuse me... hangs head out of window "AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... gurgle" OK, You may all laugh hysterically now. I'll have my coat please. It's that straight jacket over there........... Hold on a second. There is ALWAYS a way. Lets have more detail before you despair.. Do you have a wiring diag for the boiler? |
#5
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My Final post about central heating.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:10:54 +0100, "TheScullster"
wrote: "Mike Barnard" wrote.. My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. Which model boiler do you have? Its a Worcester Bosch. ZWBR 7-30 R 30 HE plus. GC Number 41 311 79 I have a 24Ri condensing non-combi which serves 2 heating zones and 1 hot water zone. The techie said that many WB combi's COULD zone, but "...sorry, not this one." Phil |
#6
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My Final post about central heating.
In article ,
Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. If it can be controlled by an external thermostat it can be controlled by zone valves. That's not to say a ready made interface is available, though. -- *How come you never hear about gruntled employees? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#7
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My Final post about central heating.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. If it can be controlled by an external thermostat it can be controlled by zone valves. That's not to say a ready made interface is available, though. My thoughts exactly. What is needed is a diagram of how to.. Which I can probably do.. If we know how the boiler expects to be controlled. |
#8
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My Final post about central heating.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. If it can be controlled by an external thermostat it can be controlled by zone valves. That's not to say a ready made interface is available, though. Ok..is it this one ? http://www.worcester-bosch.ie/file.home/13231 That would appear to have a connection into the text unit thingie for 'TR2' which looks promising. See section 1.8 Yup. TR2 is the 'connection of an external room stat or frost stat' See section 4.3 So that connection can be used to completely override the text display thingie. That's what a frost stat does.. My guess is that an external clock and stat system could be used to completely control the thing with e 'text display being set to 'nothing, ever' Or use the text display thing for one zone, then set up your motorized zone valves, and external timers and stats and connect the MV switches in parallel between the switched live and switched return on the TR2 connector block. So that any zone that 'calls' for heat will override the text display. See? simple innit? |
#9
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My Final post about central heating.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:52:45 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: My thoughts exactly. What is needed is a diagram of how to.. Which I can probably do.. If we know how the boiler expects to be controlled. Scaning stuff now. Will post a link later tonight. Thanks for the inputs. |
#10
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My Final post about central heating.
Mike Barnard wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:52:45 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: My thoughts exactly. What is needed is a diagram of how to.. Which I can probably do.. If we know how the boiler expects to be controlled. Scaning stuff now. Will post a link later tonight. Thanks for the inputs. Don't bother, Found it and posted the links. I suspect you could also integrate stuff by inserting valve gear between the text display and the unit.. Reading between the lines that's low voltage anyway..so safe enough. Need to know what you have plumbing/stat wise, then i can concoct a cqt diag for you. Meanwhile a poke with a voltmeter on pins 3,4 and F on that TR2 conector wouldn't come amiss. Looking again, at the cqt diag, there is I presume an internal motorized valve to go between CH and hot water yes? Presumably the text display thing is the 'master stat' As I see it you have two options. Depending where the master stat /text object is located. 1/. If the text thing is in a really cold place, you can use the extra zone valves to shut down the zones as and when they are hot enough. That is simple enough..just use them as mechanical valves fed via room stats from the boiler switched live, so that when you switch the whole CH off, thats the end of it. 2/. Essentially junk the text display..leave it connected, but wire up a completely different timer and so on from the switched live that feeds the whole shebang, connected to all your room stats, have them fire up the motorized valves, and then connect all those zone valve switches in parallel, between two of the terminals for 'TR2'. I assume that hot water on a combi is NOT timed - its just 'on demand'? |
#11
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My Final post about central heating.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard
wrote: Firstly, my thanks to all who have helped, argued, discussed and generally nosed around in my quest for the perfect CH system for my little house. For those who have offered to help, (thanks), this is all I have in the way of diagrams. I can scan in better resolution I guess, but obviously the file sizes would increase. http://www.thunderin.co.uk/ch/boilerstuff.htm As I understand it from the WB techies help the TR2 controller does more than just send a "start now" signal. "It's a clever little box of tricks" sayeth he. I can't see what else it can or should do really, apart from sending a current saying I demand heat. There are three terminals the box connects to. Marked 3, 4 and F. There is another terminal marked A which is unused in any document I have. However, I do NOT want to destroy a circuit board by supplying high voltages from the back of a zone valve to a terminal expecting low voltages. Obviously. Does this make any sense to anyone then? |
#12
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My Final post about central heating.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:06:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. If it can be controlled by an external thermostat it can be controlled by zone valves. That's not to say a ready made interface is available, though. Ok..is it this one ? http://www.worcester-bosch.ie/file.home/13231 hah. And I've just scanned pages from this very paper manual. That would appear to have a connection into the text unit thingie for 'TR2' which looks promising. See section 1.8 Yup. TR2 is the 'connection of an external room stat or frost stat' See section 4.3 Can't see where that is written. The pdf says... "4.3 Mains Voltage external controls connections Externally wired controls are not required; the boiler has a built-in text display programmer and frost protection. The TR2 room thermostat (not supplied) provides additional frost protection and compliance to Part L of the Building Regulations." But the pdf version is different from my paper one. My paper one just shows a picture similar to 4.2. So that connection can be used to completely override the text display thingie. That's what a frost stat does.. My guess is that an external clock and stat system could be used to completely control the thing with e 'text display being set to 'nothing, ever' I don't see a button to do that either. Or use the text display thing for one zone, then set up your motorized zone valves, and external timers and stats and connect the MV switches in parallel between the switched live and switched return on the TR2 connector block. So that any zone that 'calls' for heat will override the text display. See? simple innit? Doh... donuts please. |
#13
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My Final post about central heating.
Mike Barnard wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: Firstly, my thanks to all who have helped, argued, discussed and generally nosed around in my quest for the perfect CH system for my little house. For those who have offered to help, (thanks), this is all I have in the way of diagrams. I can scan in better resolution I guess, but obviously the file sizes would increase. http://www.thunderin.co.uk/ch/boilerstuff.htm As I understand it from the WB techies help the TR2 controller does more than just send a "start now" signal. "It's a clever little box of tricks" sayeth he. I can't see what else it can or should do really, apart from sending a current saying I demand heat. There are three terminals the box connects to. Marked 3, 4 and F. There is another terminal marked A which is unused in any document I have. However, I do NOT want to destroy a circuit board by supplying high voltages from the back of a zone valve to a terminal expecting low voltages. Obviously. Does this make any sense to anyone then? Yup. Ive been looking at the manual some more. It seems that TR2 allows the temperature of the room to be displayed.. So there is more to it than meets the eye..it also says something about using low resistance low voltage wiring, which suggests that it is an analogue rather than digital link.. Short of breaking into the boiler and accessing the main motorized valve directly, its the best hope we have though. Unless you simply use the zone valves as sort of mega TRV's (which is still worth it). Don't worry about the MV's sending mains voltages tho: Sure they need mains to operate the valves, but the switches are just switches. And do not have to be used. However looking at that bloody boiler, one begins to appreciate how de-skilled it is, and hence how lacking in versatility. Its obviously designed to be used in a small house with one stat and probably TRV's... Right. I took a final look at the setup instructions on the blasted manual, and my guess is that the so called smart TR2 thing, is, as you say, possibly a smart load of ********. I must say I'd be tempted to break into the cabling that controls the internal motorized valve, and bring the 'open for CH' circuits out to a nice set of sockets meself, and run the MV's all off that..but it probably voids the warranty. I think you have two choices. 1/. Get a TR2 thingie, and reverse engineer parts of it, or add to it.. 2/. simply use the zone valves as flow switches and forget about connecting them to the boiler electrically altogether (for now anyway): Then save up for a decent boiler 'one day' :-) Used with the TR2 room stat, that should at least allow you to control the temps of individual zones well, as long as the rads in the aree where TR2 is sited are balanced right down, so that is the thing that always wants the heat the most. |
#14
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My Final post about central heating.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. What crap. WB Tech support are wrong. What model boiler is it? -- |
#15
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My Final post about central heating.
Mike Barnard wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:06:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. If it can be controlled by an external thermostat it can be controlled by zone valves. That's not to say a ready made interface is available, though. Ok..is it this one ? http://www.worcester-bosch.ie/file.home/13231 hah. And I've just scanned pages from this very paper manual. That would appear to have a connection into the text unit thingie for 'TR2' which looks promising. See section 1.8 Yup. TR2 is the 'connection of an external room stat or frost stat' See section 4.3 Can't see where that is written. The pdf says... "4.3 Mains Voltage external controls connections Externally wired controls are not required; the boiler has a built-in text display programmer and frost protection. The TR2 room thermostat (not supplied) provides additional frost protection and compliance to Part L of the Building Regulations." But the pdf version is different from my paper one. My paper one just shows a picture similar to 4.2. So that connection can be used to completely override the text display thingie. That's what a frost stat does.. My guess is that an external clock and stat system could be used to completely control the thing with e 'text display being set to 'nothing, ever' I don't see a button to do that either. Or use the text display thing for one zone, then set up your motorized zone valves, and external timers and stats and connect the MV switches in parallel between the switched live and switched return on the TR2 connector block. So that any zone that 'calls' for heat will override the text display. See? simple innit? Doh... donuts please. Se my last post. They have been more complex than I ever thought possible. The zone valves are worth keeping tho, but you may not be able to use them to actively *call* for heat. Just to passively REDUCE heat when the main system is asking.. |
#16
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My Final post about central heating.
Matt wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. What crap. WB Tech support are wrong. What model boiler is it? According to what I found, they are sadly correct. |
#17
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My Final post about central heating.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Mike Barnard wrote: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: Firstly, my thanks to all who have helped, argued, discussed and generally nosed around in my quest for the perfect CH system for my little house. For those who have offered to help, (thanks), this is all I have in the way of diagrams. I can scan in better resolution I guess, but obviously the file sizes would increase. http://www.thunderin.co.uk/ch/boilerstuff.htm As I understand it from the WB techies help the TR2 controller does more than just send a "start now" signal. "It's a clever little box of tricks" sayeth he. I can't see what else it can or should do really, apart from sending a current saying I demand heat. There are three terminals the box connects to. Marked 3, 4 and F. There is another terminal marked A which is unused in any document I have. However, I do NOT want to destroy a circuit board by supplying high voltages from the back of a zone valve to a terminal expecting low voltages. Obviously. Does this make any sense to anyone then? Yup. Ive been looking at the manual some more. Thanks NP. It seems that TR2 allows the temperature of the room to be displayed.. Yep, on the boiler. Why, I dunno, but it does. So there is more to it than meets the eye..it also says something about using low resistance low voltage wiring, which suggests that it is an analogue rather than digital link.. Probably. Short of breaking into the boiler and accessing the main motorized valve directly, its the best hope we have though. IF I knew how. I've a lot on my plate at the moment... Unless you simply use the zone valves as sort of mega TRV's (which is still worth it). Don't worry about the MV's sending mains voltages tho: Sure they need mains to operate the valves, but the switches are just switches. And do not have to be used. Makes sense. However looking at that bloody boiler, one begins to appreciate how de-skilled it is, and hence how lacking in versatility. Its obviously designed to be used in a small house with one stat and probably TRV's... But for all that it's very high in the efficiency, which is one of the reasons I chose it. I was NOT thinking zoning back then. Obviously. Right. I took a final look at the setup instructions on the blasted manual, and my guess is that the so called smart TR2 thing, is, as you say, possibly a smart load of ********. As THEY say. Me, I'm a meccano person. If it fits, I'll fit it. If it needs bending a little, I'll let someone else do it. I must say I'd be tempted to break into the cabling that controls the internal motorized valve, and bring the 'open for CH' circuits out to a nice set of sockets meself, and run the MV's all off that..but it probably voids the warranty. Probably? "WB warranty dept? Hi. I need a new boiler gizmo because I took this bit out, wired that bit in and it went pop, sizzle. Is that OK? " I think you have two choices. 1/. Get a TR2 thingie, and reverse engineer parts of it, or add to it.. Oh, I reverse engineer things like this all day! 2/. simply use the zone valves as flow switches and forget about connecting them to the boiler electrically altogether (for now anyway): Then save up for a decent boiler 'one day' :-) OY! This is a decent boiler I'll have you know. It shows the temprature on the display an evrithin. Used with the TR2 room stat, that should at least allow you to control the temps of individual zones well, as long as the rads in the aree where TR2 is sited are balanced right down, so that is the thing that always wants the heat the most. It's late, I need to study for my C&G and I'm ****ed off with boilers just now. Thanks for the time you have spent looking at this and I'll think about what to do in the next couple of days. I have no need to rush. Nighty night. |
#18
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My Final post about central heating.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:06:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: So that any zone that 'calls' for heat will override the text display. See? simple innit? Doh... donuts please. Se my last post. They have been more complex than I ever thought possible. The zone valves are worth keeping tho, but you may not be able to use them to actively *call* for heat. Just to passively REDUCE heat when the main system is asking.. I understand what you are saying, but the reason I wanted zones was for cold rooms to be able to call for heat when the main room is already warm. Oh well. See my other reply. Night. |
#19
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My Final post about central heating.
The electrickery bits of central heating are absolutely not my thing but I
can't see why, with any boiler, you can't have an external controller driving the zone valves and stats which produces a single output to the boiler telling it when to switch on. Even if you had to set the boiler to be on 24/7 with its own controls it would still only fire up when it got a stat signal saying the temperature was low enough. If the external controller sends this signal rather than having the stat itself wired directly to the boiler why wouldn't it work? Maybe I'm missing something obvious but as I say, I really don't do electrics. -- Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines |
#20
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My Final post about central heating.
Mike Barnard wrote:
I think you have two choices. 1/. Get a TR2 thingie, and reverse engineer parts of it, or add to it.. Oh, I reverse engineer things like this all day! Well look at the bright side. it only has three wires. ;-) Of which two are probably power and ground. The third could well be a serial link... got an oscilloscope handy? (Where is Geoff when you need him? He will probably know what the PCB does with this connection) It's late, I need to study for my C&G and I'm ****ed off with boilers just now. Thanks for the time you have spent looking at this and I'll think about what to do in the next couple of days. I have no need to rush. Good plan. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#21
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My Final post about central heating.
Dave Baker wrote:
The electrickery bits of central heating are absolutely not my thing but I can't see why, with any boiler, you can't have an external controller driving the zone valves and stats which produces a single output to the boiler telling it when to switch on. Even if you had to set the boiler to be on 24/7 with its own controls it would still only fire up when it got a stat signal saying the temperature was low enough. If the external controller sends this signal rather than having the stat itself wired directly to the boiler why wouldn't it work? Maybe I'm missing something obvious but as I say, I really don't do electrics. I think the difficulty here is there does not appear to be an external input that would work with a traditional stat. The TR2 thingy communicates "stuff" to the boiler including current temperature, but not it seems, ans instruction when to turn on or off. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#22
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My Final post about central heating.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Matt wrote: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. What crap. WB Tech support are wrong. What model boiler is it? According to what I found, they are sadly correct. There must be something that the TR2 can indicate that tells the boiler it is getting a bit nippy in the room though, causing it to turn on. So the next question is how to simulate that. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#23
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My Final post about central heating.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard
mused: Firstly, my thanks to all who have helped, argued, discussed and generally nosed around in my quest for the perfect CH system for my little house. With your help I designed a system, bought the bits and have now installed the wet bits. (Including a weekend without hot water as I ran out of pipe on a Friday night). I was chuffed to bits when I pressurised it for the first time and only had one leak in a copper elbow that was a bugger to get to behind a joist. BUT. I think I am going to hang myself. As soon as I walk away from the keyboard. Sigh. My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. So after the work I'm stuffed. The zone valves are in manual open mode so the system still works as a normal un zoned system, so all is not lost. But the zone idea is out of the window now. The controllers and stuff will be going back to the supplier in the morning, no problem there. They're still in their box's unused. The pipe work for the two zones will stay in place as ONE day if this house lasts long enough, it may need a new boiler and the new heating engineer can marvel at the readymade pipe work. If left unused the two port valves will probably fur up, so I may as well take them out and try to sell them on ebay or in the local rag and get at least a few quid back from them. Don't you just HATE days like this? Excuse me... hangs head out of window "AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... gurgle" OK, You may all laugh hysterically now. I'll have my coat please. It's that straight jacket over there........... So what's wrong with the 2 terminals next to the mains input for the external controls? -- Regards, Stuart. |
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My Final post about central heating.
On 2007-07-10 19:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:
Yup. Ive been looking at the manual some more. It seems that TR2 allows the temperature of the room to be displayed.. So there is more to it than meets the eye..it also says something about using low resistance low voltage wiring, which suggests that it is an analogue rather than digital link.. Short of breaking into the boiler and accessing the main motorized valve directly, its the best hope we have though. Unless you simply use the zone valves as sort of mega TRV's (which is still worth it). Don't worry about the MV's sending mains voltages tho: Sure they need mains to operate the valves, but the switches are just switches. And do not have to be used. However looking at that bloody boiler, one begins to appreciate how de-skilled it is, and hence how lacking in versatility. Its obviously designed to be used in a small house with one stat and probably TRV's... Right. I took a final look at the setup instructions on the blasted manual, and my guess is that the so called smart TR2 thing, is, as you say, possibly a smart load of ********. I must say I'd be tempted to break into the cabling that controls the internal motorized valve, and bring the 'open for CH' circuits out to a nice set of sockets meself, and run the MV's all off that..but it probably voids the warranty. I think you have two choices. 1/. Get a TR2 thingie, and reverse engineer parts of it, or add to it.. 2/. simply use the zone valves as flow switches and forget about connecting them to the boiler electrically altogether (for now anyway): Then save up for a decent boiler 'one day' :-) Used with the TR2 room stat, that should at least allow you to control the temps of individual zones well, as long as the rads in the aree where TR2 is sited are balanced right down, so that is the thing that always wants the heat the most. I have a similar arrangement to this on my boiler (MAN Micromat). This one, by default, wants to be in charge of the whole show and does not require external controls and sensors, although it does come with an external weather compensation temperature sensor - a semiconductor analogue thing with two wire connection. There are two switched live *outputs* which can go off to run external pumps or motorised valves. Operation of that depends on settings in the installer menu, hidden from the user. I have it set such that one operates the CH zone valves and the other that for the HW cylinder. The boiler then opens them according to heating/HW demand. On the input side, there is a set of three connections, similar to the WB arrangement. However, the boiler can be programmed to use them in different ways. One is with a straight and simple set of volt free contacts - in that mode, the boiler is turned on and off in the traditional way. The second mode uses a three wire connection to a specific room controller. This device has time and temperature settings for the heating (not HW), including night set back, optimised start. It also has a control term to vary the relative influence of it vs. the external temperature sensor as far as boiler operation is concerned. The boiler is aware of the settings made on the room controller including temperatures. Another aspect of this is that if you turn up the control to increase the room temperature by a small amount - say half a degree - the boiler modulates up a bit. Turn it three degrees and it goes to full power. A scope indicated what appears to be DC and ground on two of the wires and a digital transmission on the third. A bit more digging revealed that the controller itself was not made by MAN but by Landis and Staefa (now part of Siemens Building Technologies). They make a range of products that go with various control systems on a standalone and OEM basis. The data sheet describes the interface as being PPS, others in the range as PPS2 - both appear to be proprietary interfaces. The transmission is there the whole time - doesn't disappear out of hours or below the set point or anything like that. So coming back to Mike's project, I think you are right, from the descriptions in the manual, there is probably more about this TR2 controller than a simple on/off or analogue interface. It may well be using a similar concept to the Siemens controllers or even be made by them - they have quite a product range. Reverse engineering of the interface? Maybe, but decoding an unknown bit stream where even the method of encoding isn't known, is not going to be trivial. I wonder whether getting one of these TR2s and spoofing its analogue temperature sensing might not be a better proposition. More than likely that will be a thermistor or semiconductor sensor. The manufacturer might even have helpfully marked it on the legend of the PCB. Once the component is identified, it would be reasonably easy to replace it with an appropriate set of resistors, diodes etc. and a relay contact such that the controller is fooled into thinking that the room temperature is very high or very low and stopping and starting the boiler accordingly. Since the TR2 has a rotary temperature control, that may operate a potentiometer inside. If that's the case, then the job is even easier. Whip out the pot, a couple of resistors and a relay and that's it. These controllers cost about £45, which is not bad for a proprietary thermostat. Dinking with one of these would mean not having to start pulling about the boiler wiring and invalidating the warranty plus whatever other unknowns might happen. For example, breaking into one of the boiler internal wirings to a valve etc. might be detected by the boiler controller and cause a fault lockout on the boiler. In the worst case scenario with the TR2, the solution wouldn't work and £45 would have been spent. It wouldn't affect the boiler. |
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My Final post about central heating.
On 2007-07-11 00:54:55 +0100, John Rumm said:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Matt wrote: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. What crap. WB Tech support are wrong. What model boiler is it? According to what I found, they are sadly correct. There must be something that the TR2 can indicate that tells the boiler it is getting a bit nippy in the room though, causing it to turn on. So the next question is how to simulate that. Easier solution. Spend £45 on a TR2 and pull it apart. Either spoof the temperature sensor (probably thermistor or semiconductor) or the rotary control if it's a pot. A couple of resistors and a small relay should be able to have it convinced that the room temperature is changing or being changed. This avoids needing to break into the boiler and has much lower risk. |
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My Final post about central heating.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:21:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mike Barnard wrote: Firstly, my thanks to all who have helped, argued, discussed and generally nosed around in my quest for the perfect CH system for my little house. With your help I designed a system, bought the bits and have now installed the wet bits. (Including a weekend without hot water as I ran out of pipe on a Friday night). I was chuffed to bits when I pressurised it for the first time and only had one leak in a copper elbow that was a bugger to get to behind a joist. BUT. I think I am going to hang myself. As soon as I walk away from the keyboard. Sigh. My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. So after the work I'm stuffed. The zone valves are in manual open mode so the system still works as a normal un zoned system, so all is not lost. But the zone idea is out of the window now. The controllers and stuff will be going back to the supplier in the morning, no problem there. They're still in their box's unused. The pipe work for the two zones will stay in place as ONE day if this house lasts long enough, it may need a new boiler and the new heating engineer can marvel at the readymade pipe work. If left unused the two port valves will probably fur up, so I may as well take them out and try to sell them on ebay or in the local rag and get at least a few quid back from them. Don't you just HATE days like this? Excuse me... hangs head out of window "AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... gurgle" OK, You may all laugh hysterically now. I'll have my coat please. It's that straight jacket over there........... Hold on a second. There is ALWAYS a way. Lets have more detail before you despair.. Do you have a wiring diag for the boiler? Agreed. There must be a a way to connect a wall themostat to the combi. That is the way you drive the zoning. Some WB models have all the connection for zoning builtin to save you useing a wiring centre (such as the 24 SBi) that's probably what threw the WB techies. AL you need to do is connect the all the grey wires to one of the thermostat terminals and all the orange wires to the other thermostat terminal. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards |
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My Final post about central heating.
On 2007-07-11 07:14:07 +0100, Ed Sirett said:
Agreed. There must be a a way to connect a wall themostat to the combi. There is but it's a proprietary room controller. There are a couple of terminals next to the mains input with a link between them, but the manual seems to say nothing about them other than that there is a link. Possibly this is a switched live, but it doesn't seem to say. That is the way you drive the zoning. Some WB models have all the connection for zoning builtin to save you useing a wiring centre (such as the 24 SBi) that's probably what threw the WB techies. AL you need to do is connect the all the grey wires to one of the thermostat terminals and all the orange wires to the other thermostat terminal. |
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My Final post about central heating.
"Dave Baker" wrote in message ... The electrickery bits of central heating are absolutely not my thing but I can't see why, with any boiler, you can't have an external controller driving the zone valves and stats which produces a single output to the boiler telling it when to switch on. Even if you had to set the boiler to be on 24/7 with its own controls it would still only fire up when it got a stat signal saying the temperature was low enough. If the external controller sends this signal rather than having the stat itself wired directly to the boiler why wouldn't it work? Maybe I'm missing something obvious but as I say, I really don't do electrics. -- Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines That's precisely how my Potterton Kingfisher 150CF is wired up. No electronics in it at all, just a pc based external controller doing zone control on 8 zones. The actual boiler went in in 1985 and is working well, though the controller is a bit newer having run since about 1998. AWEM |
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My Final post about central heating.
Dave Baker wrote:
The electrickery bits of central heating are absolutely not my thing but I can't see why, with any boiler, you can't have an external controller driving the zone valves and stats which produces a single output to the boiler telling it when to switch on. You can. If the boiler has a way of accepting such input. This one does not. Its completely integrated and comoputerised, and the only thing apart from the mains that it takes, is a 'smart' room stat made by the manufacturer ONLY. Even if you had to set the boiler to be on 24/7 with its own controls it would still only fire up when it got a stat signal saying the temperature was low enough. If the external controller sends this signal rather than having the stat itself wired directly to the boiler why wouldn't it work? If the whole boiler is off, then no hot water either.. Maybe I'm missing something obvious but as I say, I really don't do electrics. Its highly UN-obvious. Thats someone has finally produced the plumbers dream and the DIY-ers nightmare. A boiler that doesn't need any electrical installation, beyond hooking up to a switched fused spur and turning it 'on'.. |
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My Final post about central heating.
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-11 00:54:55 +0100, John Rumm said: The Natural Philosopher wrote: Matt wrote: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. What crap. WB Tech support are wrong. What model boiler is it? According to what I found, they are sadly correct. There must be something that the TR2 can indicate that tells the boiler it is getting a bit nippy in the room though, causing it to turn on. So the next question is how to simulate that. Easier solution. Spend £45 on a TR2 and pull it apart. Either spoof the temperature sensor (probably thermistor or semiconductor) or the rotary control if it's a pot. A couple of resistors and a small relay should be able to have it convinced that the room temperature is changing or being changed. This avoids needing to break into the boiler and has much lower risk. That was my thought too. |
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My Final post about central heating.
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Andy Hall wrote: Spend £45 on a TR2 and pull it apart. Either spoof the temperature sensor (probably thermistor or semiconductor) or the rotary control if it's a pot. A couple of resistors and a small relay should be able to have it convinced that the room temperature is changing or being changed. This avoids needing to break into the boiler and has much lower risk. That was my thought too. Use a little Peltier cooler to chill the temperature sensor? Everything of WB manufacture then remains unmodified, downstream replacements off the shelf, and with all guarantees still in place. -- Tony Williams. |
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My Final post about central heating.
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 2007-07-11 07:14:07 +0100, Ed Sirett said: Agreed. There must be a a way to connect a wall themostat to the combi. There is but it's a proprietary room controller. I haven't looked. If the room controller is a resitance type (a temperature sensor) then it is more difficult. If it is 12, 24, 240v then it may be a matter of installing a simple relay. It may be a case of getting at the clock terminals to switch the boiler on and off for zoning. If the clock can be remote then the wires can be got at easily. The existing integrated clock can stay at the 24 hrs setting (always on) and clock stats fitted elsewhere for each zone. |
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My Final post about central heating.
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:42:35 +0100, Lurch
mused: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard mused: Firstly, my thanks to all who have helped, argued, discussed and generally nosed around in my quest for the perfect CH system for my little house. With your help I designed a system, bought the bits and have now installed the wet bits. (Including a weekend without hot water as I ran out of pipe on a Friday night). I was chuffed to bits when I pressurised it for the first time and only had one leak in a copper elbow that was a bugger to get to behind a joist. BUT. I think I am going to hang myself. As soon as I walk away from the keyboard. Sigh. My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. So after the work I'm stuffed. The zone valves are in manual open mode so the system still works as a normal un zoned system, so all is not lost. But the zone idea is out of the window now. The controllers and stuff will be going back to the supplier in the morning, no problem there. They're still in their box's unused. The pipe work for the two zones will stay in place as ONE day if this house lasts long enough, it may need a new boiler and the new heating engineer can marvel at the readymade pipe work. If left unused the two port valves will probably fur up, so I may as well take them out and try to sell them on ebay or in the local rag and get at least a few quid back from them. Don't you just HATE days like this? Excuse me... hangs head out of window "AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... gurgle" OK, You may all laugh hysterically now. I'll have my coat please. It's that straight jacket over there........... So what's wrong with the 2 terminals next to the mains input for the external controls? Or 3 if you cont the neutral as well, and being reasonably pedantic I'd say it should be counted as a terminal and not left out. -- Regards, Stuart. |
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My Final post about central heating.
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: The electrickery bits of central heating are absolutely not my thing but I can't see why, with any boiler, you can't have an external controller driving the zone valves and stats which produces a single output to the boiler telling it when to switch on. You can. If the boiler has a way of accepting such input. This one does not. Its completely integrated and comoputerised, and the only thing apart from the mains that it takes, is a 'smart' room stat made by the manufacturer ONLY. It would then be a matter of finding out what the actual switching signal consists of. I suppose it might be some form of digital multiplex - how many wires go to this controller? But no matter how oddball it would be *possible* to intercept this control data and alter it. -- *Why don't sheep shrink when it rains? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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My Final post about central heating.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: The electrickery bits of central heating are absolutely not my thing but I can't see why, with any boiler, you can't have an external controller driving the zone valves and stats which produces a single output to the boiler telling it when to switch on. You can. If the boiler has a way of accepting such input. This one does not. Its completely integrated and comoputerised, and the only thing apart from the mains that it takes, is a 'smart' room stat made by the manufacturer ONLY. It would then be a matter of finding out what the actual switching signal consists of. I suppose it might be some form of digital multiplex - how many wires go to this controller? But no matter how oddball it would be *possible* to intercept this control data and alter it. Sure. Knock up a pic and some mains relays |
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My Final post about central heating.
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... Dave Baker wrote: The electrickery bits of central heating are absolutely not my thing but I can't see why, with any boiler, you can't have an external controller driving the zone valves and stats which produces a single output to the boiler telling it when to switch on. You can. If the boiler has a way of accepting such input. This one does not. Its completely integrated and comoputerised, and the only thing apart from the mains that it takes, is a 'smart' room stat made by the manufacturer ONLY. If the "room stat" is actually a temperature sensor using a resistance to detect the temp (the usual method), opening the circuit will usually send the thing one way or another. I have done this many times in designs on commercial setups. The boiler fully on or fully off. So inserting a relay in the line will switch on or off the boiler. Then this circuit can go though the end switches of the zone valves. When the zone valves are open the whole circuit is engaged and the temperature control is working well. When closed the boiler is off or on. I would guess than when this temp sensor is linked out (no resistance) the boiler will be full on. It is worth full linking the stat circuit and opening and observe what the boiler does. Then close and see what happens. I would be leaning to that the circuit is just a low voltage resistance temperature setup and what I describe will easily work. If so, depending on the zone valve a relay have to be incorporated in the design. Best have a SPDT end switch on the zone valve, if possible. Its highly UN-obvious. Thats someone has finally produced the plumbers dream and the DIY-ers nightmare. A boiler that doesn't need any electrical installation, beyond hooking up to a switched fused spur and turning it 'on'.. That is the aim of many makers - fit and forget, no need to design as the experts do it for you. Also getting around Part P using a wireless stat. |
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My Final post about central heating.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:09:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Matt wrote: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. What crap. WB Tech support are wrong. What model boiler is it? According to what I found, they are sadly correct. Except the boiler uses the same basic layout and controller board as many other WB models that can use the TR2 as an *option*, these other boilers can use zone valves or mid position valves. In the R30 HE Plus manual http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind...ewFile&id=9917 Page 8 1.8 Electrical wiring diagram The terminals L N Ns Ls LR are identical to those on many other Worcester boilers. For instance look up the Greenstar R28 HE, a system boiler that can be used with a TR2, and can also optionally be fitted with an internal (24v) diverter valve. When configured like this the R28 HE is,with the exception of the hot water heat exchanger section, identical in almost every respect to the R30 HE Plus. R28 HE manual http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind...ewFile&id=9921 This online version has lost some detail available in earlier revisions of this manual. I've scanned them here. http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4153/img380hl1.jpg http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9671/img379mw5.jpg Note that in Fig 31 the Ls-Lr link is shown still in situ - this is incorrect as it must be removed! Unplug the TR2 from the main pcb (as it's used for settings and diagnostics access in the R30 this might not be a long term option) remove the Ls - Lr link and wire as per these schematics and the boiler will interface to a whole bunch of standard control plans. -- |
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My Final post about central heating.
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 2007-07-11 00:54:55 +0100, John Rumm said: The Natural Philosopher wrote: Matt wrote: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. What crap. WB Tech support are wrong. What model boiler is it? According to what I found, they are sadly correct. There must be something that the TR2 can indicate that tells the boiler it is getting a bit nippy in the room though, causing it to turn on. So the next question is how to simulate that. Easier solution. Spend £45 on a TR2 and pull it apart. Daft idea. |
#39
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My Final post about central heating.
"John Rumm" wrote in message ... The Natural Philosopher wrote: Matt wrote: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. What crap. WB Tech support are wrong. What model boiler is it? According to what I found, they are sadly correct. There must be something that the TR2 can indicate that tells the boiler it is getting a bit nippy in the room though, causing it to turn on. So the next question is how to simulate that. No need to just open or close a circuit. It "appears" that there is no link on the TR2 connections at the boiler. This means on open circuit the boiler is "on" permanently. Connect it and a resistance appears and the controller acts accordingly to turn on or off, or modulate the burner (haven't looked at this boiler in detail so it may or may not modulate the burner via room temp). So closed circuit means boiler off. Opening and closing this circuit to have the boiler on or off will work. When open the frost aspect will be disabled, but an external frost stat can be fitted if need be. When on, burner modulation is activated if a part of the control system as the circuit and the TR2 is in circuit. |
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My Final post about central heating.
Matt wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:09:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Matt wrote: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:00:05 +0100, Mike Barnard wrote: My Worcester Bosch boiler cannot be activated by external zone controls. So says the techie's at WB themselves. I've spent hours and hours and a couple of hundred pounds doing the zone thing. I tried to sort the controls today and couldn't figure out how to connect them to the boiler. So I called WB tech support and my boiler (which is only 2 years old FFS!" cannot take it. No way. "Can't I bodge a control in somewhere?" Nope. The text display controls it all. There is no single 'lightitupnow' connection in there. What crap. WB Tech support are wrong. What model boiler is it? According to what I found, they are sadly correct. Except the boiler uses the same basic layout and controller board as many other WB models that can use the TR2 as an *option*, these other boilers can use zone valves or mid position valves. In the R30 HE Plus manual http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind...ewFile&id=9917 Page 8 1.8 Electrical wiring diagram The terminals L N Ns Ls LR are identical to those on many other Worcester boilers. For instance look up the Greenstar R28 HE, a system boiler that can be used with a TR2, and can also optionally be fitted with an internal (24v) diverter valve. When configured like this the R28 HE is,with the exception of the hot water heat exchanger section, identical in almost every respect to the R30 HE Plus. R28 HE manual http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind...ewFile&id=9921 This online version has lost some detail available in earlier revisions of this manual. I've scanned them here. http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4153/img380hl1.jpg http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9671/img379mw5.jpg Note that in Fig 31 the Ls-Lr link is shown still in situ - this is incorrect as it must be removed! Unplug the TR2 from the main pcb (as it's used for settings and diagnostics access in the R30 this might not be a long term option) remove the Ls - Lr link and wire as per these schematics and the boiler will interface to a whole bunch of standard control plans. Aha ..looks promising. |
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