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Default A water meter fiddle?

I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off to
make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.

Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit. I
wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to overcome
the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny amount
(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the meter
wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve upstream
throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should get
'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
nothing!

Julian.



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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off to
make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.

Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit. I
wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to overcome
the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny amount
(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the meter
wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve upstream
throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should get
'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
nothing!

So that somebody else pays for your water?

--
Frank Erskine
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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 09:05:23 +0100, Frank Erskine
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off to
make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.

Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit. I
wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to overcome
the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny amount
(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the meter
wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve upstream
throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should get
'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
nothing!

So that somebody else pays for your water?


So someone else contributes to the enormous profits the water
companies make.
--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
Or get it delivered for free
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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT
"Julian" wrote:

I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just
observe the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with
everything turned off to make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.

Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine
wheel that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the
counter unit. I wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow
of water to overcome the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a
cold tap just a tiny amount (just little more than a constant stream
of drips) I observed that the meter wasn't rotating at all. My theory
would appear correct.

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half
way down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop
valve upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working
24/7 I should get 'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something
for nothing!

Julian.


No, you're a thief.
No one seems to have any morals these days.
Bring back the birch!

R.
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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

|!I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
|!the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off to
|!make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.
|!
|!Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
|!that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit. I
|!wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to overcome
|!the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny amount
|!(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the meter
|!wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.
|!
|!So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
|!down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve upstream
|!throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should get
|!'free' water maybe?
|!
|!I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
|!nothing!

That way of measuring water flow is well known to under read on low flows.
If they wanted more accuracy they would have used a better/more expensive
meter.

Your idea should work, but if it would save money over the life of a ball
valve is a moot point.
--
Dave Fawthrop sf hyphenologist.co.uk 165 *Free* SF ebooks.
165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project Gutenberg
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page Completely Free to any
address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address.



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Default A water meter fiddle?

On 7 Jun, 09:42, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

|!I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
|!the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off to
|!make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.
|!
|!Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
|!that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit. I
|!wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to overcome
|!the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny amount
|!(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the meter
|!wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.
|!
|!So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
|!down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve upstream
|!throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should get
|!'free' water maybe?
|!
|!I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
|!nothing!

That way of measuring water flow is well known to under read on low flows.
If they wanted more accuracy they would have used a better/more expensive
meter.

Your idea should work, but if it would save money over the life of a ball
valve is a moot point.
--
Dave Fawthrop sf hyphenologist.co.uk 165 *Free* SF ebooks.
165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project Gutenberghttp://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_PageCompletely Free to any
address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address.


I can't condone getting free water but I'm interested to know how much
per day you can get out without the meter registering. Water costs
about 75p/1000 litres depending on where you live. Will it be worth
the effort?

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Default A water meter fiddle?


"Burlington Bertie" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 7 Jun, 09:42, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

|!I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just
observe
|!the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned
off to
|!make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.
|!
|!Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine
wheel
|!that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter
unit. I
|!wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to
overcome
|!the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny
amount
|!(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the
meter
|!wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.
|!
|!So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half
way
|!down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve
upstream
|!throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should
get
|!'free' water maybe?
|!
|!I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something
for
|!nothing!

That way of measuring water flow is well known to under read on low
flows.
If they wanted more accuracy they would have used a better/more expensive
meter.

Your idea should work, but if it would save money over the life of a
ball
valve is a moot point.
--
Dave Fawthrop sf hyphenologist.co.uk 165 *Free* SF ebooks.
165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project
Gutenberghttp://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_PageCompletely Free to any
address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address.


I can't condone getting free water but I'm interested to know how much
per day you can get out without the meter registering. Water costs
about 75p/1000 litres depending on where you live. Will it be worth
the effort?


Crikey, United Uts charge me 122p/1000 litres. Do you live in a rain forest
:-)

There's a sign up in the toilets at work that says a dripping tap uses 1/2 a
bathful of water/day, but I bet there's some hype involved. So I don't
suppose it will be worth the effort, but as I said before, it could be worth
it just for the amusement value. I may even 'report' myself to United Uts
and see what action they propose - should be a laugh trying to get someone
in Bombay to understand the mad British :-)


Julian.



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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Jun 7, 11:14 am, "Julian" wrote:
"Burlington Bertie" wrote in message

ups.com...





On 7 Jun, 09:42, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT, "Julian" wrote:


|!I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just
observe
|!the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned
off to
|!make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.
|!
|!Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine
wheel
|!that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter
unit. I
|!wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to
overcome
|!the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny
amount
|!(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the
meter
|!wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.
|!
|!So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half
way
|!down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve
upstream
|!throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should
get
|!'free' water maybe?
|!
|!I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something
for
|!nothing!


That way of measuring water flow is well known to under read on low
flows.
If they wanted more accuracy they would have used a better/more expensive
meter.


Your idea should work, but if it would save money over the life of a
ball
valve is a moot point.
--
Dave Fawthrop sf hyphenologist.co.uk 165 *Free* SF ebooks.
165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project
Gutenberghttp://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_PageCompletelyFree to any
address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address.


I can't condone getting free water but I'm interested to know how much
per day you can get out without the meter registering. Water costs
about 75p/1000 litres depending on where you live. Will it be worth
the effort?


Crikey, United Uts charge me 122p/1000 litres. Do you live in a rain forest
:-)

There's a sign up in the toilets at work that says a dripping tap uses 1/2 a
bathful of water/day, but I bet there's some hype involved.


It could be right. if it drips fas tenough to fill a teaspoon every
10 seconds say, that's 43 litres per 24 hours.

R


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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Jun 7, 9:22 am, TheOldFellow wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT





"Julian" wrote:
I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just
observe the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with
everything turned off to make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.


Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine
wheel that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the
counter unit. I wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow
of water to overcome the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a
cold tap just a tiny amount (just little more than a constant stream
of drips) I observed that the meter wasn't rotating at all. My theory
would appear correct.


So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half
way down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop
valve upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working
24/7 I should get 'free' water maybe?


I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something
for nothing!


Julian.


No, you're a thief.



It's not theft.


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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 03:26:47 -0700
adder1969 wrote:

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One
half way down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a
stop valve upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With
this working 24/7 I should get 'free' water maybe?


I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting
something for nothing!


Julian.


No, you're a thief.



It's not theft.


Care to explain that? He doesn't own it, the water company does. He
steals it, it's theft. QED.

R.



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On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:40:46 +0100 someone who may be TheOldFellow
wrote this:-

He doesn't own it, the water company does.


No they don't. Water is not owned by anyone, it is a common
resource.

What one can argue is that they do own the means of collecting this
common resource and supplying it to people in a convenient form.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
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Default A water meter fiddle?

TheOldFellow wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 03:26:47 -0700
adder1969 wrote:

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One
half way down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a
stop valve upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With
this working 24/7 I should get 'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting
something for nothing!

Julian.

No, you're a thief.



It's not theft.


Care to explain that? He doesn't own it, the water company does. He
steals it, it's theft. QED.

R.


If the water goes back into the sewer system (eventually) he's only borrowed
it. He's not "permanently deprived the owner with intent", so it's not
theft.

--
LSR


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If the water goes back into the sewer system (eventually) he's only borrowed
it. He's not "permanently deprived the owner with intent", so it's not
theft.


LOL - I think not. On that basis, we would all be returning the
elctricity we had borrowed when the current flowed back on the neutral
wire. There's specific regulations covering electricity supply - I
would be surprised if there wasn't similar regulation concerning
intentional evasion of legitimate water metering.

And "permanently deprived the owner with intent" includes
contaminating/destroying/rendering it useless/unusable.

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"LSR" wrote in message
...
TheOldFellow wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 03:26:47 -0700
adder1969 wrote:

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One
half way down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a
stop valve upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With
this working 24/7 I should get 'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting
something for nothing!

Julian.

No, you're a thief.


It's not theft.


Care to explain that? He doesn't own it, the water company does. He
steals it, it's theft. QED.

R.


If the water goes back into the sewer system (eventually) he's only
borrowed it. He's not "permanently deprived the owner with intent", so
it's not theft.
--
LSR


So if I nick your car it will be OK if I give it back a few years later?

Andy


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"Julian" wrote in message
...
I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off
to make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.

Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit.
I wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to
overcome the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a
tiny amount (just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed
that the meter wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve
upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I
should get 'free' water maybe?


It wouldn't be free, other people would be paying for it. It's stealing and
illegal.

Mary




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"Julian" wrote in message
...

.... it could be worth
it just for the amusement value. I may even 'report' myself to United Uts
and see what action they propose - should be a laugh trying to get someone
in Bombay to understand the mad British :-)


You're despicable on more than one count.


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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:06:51 -0700 someone who may be "
wrote this:-

LOL - I think not. On that basis, we would all be returning the
elctricity we had borrowed when the current flowed back on the neutral
wire.


You appear to be adopting the "water analogy" for electricity.

There may be something to this analogy for DC, where "tired"
electrons are refreshed at the dynamo, though the electrons move
very slowly. In AC the electrons are simply waggled backwards and
forwards over a very small distance.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
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LOL - I think not. On that basis, we would all be returning the
elctricity we had borrowed when the current flowed back on the neutral
wire.


You appear to be adopting the "water analogy" for electricity.

There may be something to this analogy for DC, where "tired"
electrons are refreshed at the dynamo, though the electrons move
very slowly. In AC the electrons are simply waggled backwards and
forwards over a very small distance.


OK - rms current returning on the neutral wire.

If we were counting electrons in a dc set-up, they'd be moving from
negative to positive anyway.

Whichever way, the lawmakers have it sufficently well sewn up that you
can't "borrow" electrcity from your supplier (although exploiting the
electric field from overhead powerlines might be ok).

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On 7 Jun, 08:32, "Julian" wrote:
I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off to
make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.

Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit. I
wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to overcome
the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny amount
(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the meter
wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve upstream
throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should get
'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
nothing!

Julian.


WATERloadofoldrubbish!!
Borosteve.

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"TheOldFellow" wrote in message

No, you're a thief.
No one seems to have any morals these days.
Bring back the birch!

R.


Lol and the UU are not?

My water rates used to be £25.70 a month,the bill stated what I was paying
for...even the rain that came down the gutter.
I then got a meter in and reduced the bill by less than half of previous
unmetered bill it would seem those on umetered water pay for
sewerage,sanitation,piping ect.
And when you go on a meter you only pay for what you use.

Work that one out!





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"George" wrote in message
...

"TheOldFellow" wrote in message

No, you're a thief.
No one seems to have any morals these days.
Bring back the birch!

R.


Lol and the UU are not?

My water rates used to be £25.70 a month,the bill stated what I was paying
for...even the rain that came down the gutter.
I then got a meter in and reduced the bill by less than half of previous
unmetered bill it would seem those on umetered water pay for
sewerage,sanitation,piping ect.
And when you go on a meter you only pay for what you use.


No, you pay for sewage and dranage services too.

Mary


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"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off

to
make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.

Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit.

I
wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to overcome
the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny

amount
(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the

meter
wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve

upstream
throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should get
'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
nothing!

So that somebody else pays for your water?

--
Frank Erskine


Too right,a single person in the same type of house you're in and same neck
of the woods pays the same amount as you do with your family.

Are you telling me thats right? I think not, as you would be using more
water than single person.


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"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"George" wrote in message
...

"TheOldFellow" wrote in message

No, you're a thief.
No one seems to have any morals these days.
Bring back the birch!

R.


Lol and the UU are not?

My water rates used to be £25.70 a month,the bill stated what I was

paying
for...even the rain that came down the gutter.
I then got a meter in and reduced the bill by less than half of previous
unmetered bill it would seem those on umetered water pay for
sewerage,sanitation,piping ect.
And when you go on a meter you only pay for what you use.


No, you pay for sewage and dranage services too.

Mary



No you don't.


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borosteve wrote:
On 7 Jun, 08:32, "Julian" wrote:
I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off to
make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.

Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit. I
wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to overcome
the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny amount
(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the meter
wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve upstream
throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should get
'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
nothing!

Julian.


WATERloadofoldrubbish!!
Borosteve.

So, if I dig a hole (sort of well) near a pool that is fed by a stream,
that in turn runs into a river where the local water company collect it,
process it then sell it on. Then I use the water that collects in the
hole am I stealing? If I am what about peeps who have old wells on their
property and use the water in there? Just wondering.
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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Jun 7, 4:18 pm, Broadback wrote:
borosteve wrote:
On 7 Jun, 08:32, "Julian" wrote:
I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off to
make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.


Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit. I
wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to overcome
the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny amount
(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the meter
wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.


So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve upstream
throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should get
'free' water maybe?


I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
nothing!


Julian.


WATERloadofoldrubbish!!
Borosteve.


So, if I dig a hole (sort of well) near a pool that is fed by a stream,
that in turn runs into a river where the local water company collect it,
process it then sell it on. Then I use the water that collects in the
hole am I stealing? If I am what about peeps who have old wells on their
property and use the water in there? Just wondering.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Do you not need to apply for an "abstraction licence" to sink a
borehole or well? iIIRC the licence limits you to using the water in
your own hosuehold. You might use a borehole, for example, to supply
the loos with flushing water. That woul dhave a big impact you your
water bill.

Robert




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LSR LSR is offline
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Default A water meter fiddle?

Andy McKenzie wrote:
"LSR" wrote in message
...
TheOldFellow wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 03:26:47 -0700
adder1969 wrote:

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One
half way down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a
stop valve upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With
this working 24/7 I should get 'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting
something for nothing!

Julian.

No, you're a thief.


It's not theft.


Care to explain that? He doesn't own it, the water company does. He
steals it, it's theft. QED.

R.


If the water goes back into the sewer system (eventually) he's only
borrowed it. He's not "permanently deprived the owner with intent",
so it's not theft.
--
LSR


So if I nick your car it will be OK if I give it back a few years
later?
Andy


Definitely not OK by me, but arguably not theft. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft
Theft Act 1968 : "A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly
appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently
depriving the other of it".

--
LSR


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Default A water meter fiddle?


"Andy McKenzie" wrote in message
...
"LSR" wrote in message
...
TheOldFellow wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 03:26:47 -0700
adder1969 wrote:

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One
half way down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a
stop valve upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With
this working 24/7 I should get 'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting
something for nothing!

Julian.

No, you're a thief.


It's not theft.


Care to explain that? He doesn't own it, the water company does. He
steals it, it's theft. QED.

R.


If the water goes back into the sewer system (eventually) he's only
borrowed it. He's not "permanently deprived the owner with intent", so
it's not theft.
--
LSR


So if I nick your car it will be OK if I give it back a few years later?

Andy

In my neck of the woods; the water company charge for 'supply' and
separately for 'return'.
The 'return' is a predetermined proportion of the amount 'supplied' . One
could argue that if the original _thief_ is obtaining water without the
company being aware of it - then he's definitely depriving them of revenue
when he 'returns' it. That- IMHO- is theft.

--

Brian



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Default A water meter fiddle?

The message
from "George" contains these words:

My water rates used to be £25.70 a month,the bill stated what I was paying
for...even the rain that came down the gutter.


My water bill for the current year (based on rateable value) works out
at £16 per month.

I then got a meter in and reduced the bill by less than half of previous
unmetered bill it would seem those on umetered water pay for
sewerage,sanitation,piping ect.
And when you go on a meter you only pay for what you use.


Work that one out!


Easily.

You are nowhere in England or

you are not connected to main drainage or

you are wrong in your assumption above.

Being connected to mains drainage and not paying a sewerage charge in
England would mean that you were defrauding the water company.

--
Roger Chapman
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Posts: 58
Default A water meter fiddle?

"Robert Laws" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 7, 4:18 pm, Broadback wrote:
borosteve wrote:
On 7 Jun, 08:32, "Julian" wrote:
I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just
observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned
off to
make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.


Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine
wheel
that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter
unit. I
wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to
overcome
the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny
amount
(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the
meter
wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.


So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half
way
down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve
upstream
throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should
get
'free' water maybe?


I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something
for
nothing!


Julian.


WATERloadofoldrubbish!!
Borosteve.


So, if I dig a hole (sort of well) near a pool that is fed by a stream,
that in turn runs into a river where the local water company collect it,
process it then sell it on. Then I use the water that collects in the
hole am I stealing? If I am what about peeps who have old wells on their
property and use the water in there? Just wondering.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Do you not need to apply for an "abstraction licence" to sink a
borehole or well? iIIRC the licence limits you to using the water in
your own hosuehold. You might use a borehole, for example, to supply
the loos with flushing water. That woul dhave a big impact you your
water bill.

Robert

In England and Wales no licence is required for water abstraction up to
20,000 litres per day. The rules used to specify that this licence exemption
applied just to domestic and horticultural use, but this has now been
changed, and no limits are placed on use. So, geology allowing, you can dig
a well or boreholein your own garden and extract all the water you would
need without any limits. Once you start looking at the practicalities you
may well find it uneconomic once you have costed a well, pump, energy costs
and maintenance, but if you have a suitably productive shallow aquifer and a
good diy approach you might make back your costs. IYou may still have to pay
sewage charges if you discharge to a public sewer.

Andy


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Default A water meter fiddle?

Julian wrote:
I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off to
make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.

Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine wheel
that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the counter unit. I
wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow of water to overcome
the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a cold tap just a tiny amount
(just little more than a constant stream of drips) I observed that the meter
wasn't rotating at all. My theory would appear correct.

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half way
down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop valve upstream
throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working 24/7 I should get
'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
nothing!

Julian.




In scouse terminology its whats knows as putting the meter on the drip :-P
--
mart@home


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Default A water meter fiddle?


"Martin" wrote in message

In scouse terminology its whats knows as putting the meter on the drip :-P
--
mart@home


As opposed to electric...they're all musicaly minded...even the meter is on
the fiddle. :-p


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George wrote:
"Martin" wrote in message
In scouse terminology its whats knows as putting the meter on the drip :-P
--
mart@home


As opposed to electric...they're all musicaly minded...even the meter is on
the fiddle. :-p



Not sure what terminology it is when the gas meter is done, maybe no
ones lived long enough to name it :-P
--
mart@home
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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Jun 7, 11:40 am, TheOldFellow wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 03:26:47 -0700



adder1969 wrote:
So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One
half way down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a
stop valve upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With
this working 24/7 I should get 'free' water maybe?


I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting
something for nothing!


Julian.


No, you're a thief.


It's not theft.


Care to explain that? He doesn't own it, the water company does. He
steals it, it's theft. QED.


No, he is suggesting using the water that comes through the meter. He
is not wrongfully6 using his tap is he if he doesn't have it on full
when he doesn't want it on full.

Switch your computer off and go and find your soul. Someone might be
borrowing it. I am surprised no one has told that you don't have a
life. Don't you get nebulous niggles that something might going past
you while you are sleeping?


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Default A water meter fiddle?

In message , Frank Erskine
writes
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just observe
the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with everything turned off to
make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.



I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something for
nothing!

So that somebody else pays for your water?

Not really a valid point IMO when a) lots of people still don't have
meters and b) the water companies lose such a high proportion through
leaks

If there was a level playing field, you might have had a point

--
geoff
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Default A water meter fiddle?

In message .com,
adder1969 writes
On Jun 7, 9:22 am, TheOldFellow wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:32:19 GMT





"Julian" wrote:
I was doing a routine check for water leaks at home today, I just
observe the little 'spinning' wheel on the water meter with
everything turned off to make sure it's not moving - it wasn't.


Then I started thinking. The meter works by way of a little turbine
wheel that spins in proportion to water flow and is geared to the
counter unit. I wondered if the turbine needs a certain minimum flow
of water to overcome the meter's internal friction. So, by opening a
cold tap just a tiny amount (just little more than a constant stream
of drips) I observed that the meter wasn't rotating at all. My theory
would appear correct.


So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One half
way down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a stop
valve upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With this working
24/7 I should get 'free' water maybe?


I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting something
for nothing!


Julian.


No, you're a thief.



It's not theft.

It's like the difference between taqx evasion and tax avoidance, isn't
it

It's a legal loophole, what's the problem ?

--
geoff


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Default A water meter fiddle?

In message , TheOldFellow
writes
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 03:26:47 -0700
adder1969 wrote:

So, what if I fitted two ball cocks to the DHW header tank? One
half way down the tank to work normally and one at the top with a
stop valve upstream throttled to allow a drip feed only. With
this working 24/7 I should get 'free' water maybe?

I'm not from Yorkshire BTW, I just like the idea of getting
something for nothing!

Julian.

No, you're a thief.



It's not theft.


Care to explain that? He doesn't own it, the water company does. He
steals it, it's theft. QED.


No - he's used his brains and beaten the system in his own small way
quite legally

And how can you say that the water company owns the water, it's passed
through their meter quite legally - the fact that it hasn't registered
is due to a shortcoming in their measuring system

.... and one way or another it will find it's way back through the sewer,
or rain or whatever.

This water was stolen from us by the Tories in the first place IIRC in
an attempt to try and boost their re-election chances



--
geoff
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Default A water meter fiddle?

In message , George
writes

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"George" wrote in message
...

"TheOldFellow" wrote in message

No, you're a thief.
No one seems to have any morals these days.
Bring back the birch!

R.

Lol and the UU are not?

My water rates used to be £25.70 a month,the bill stated what I was

paying
for...even the rain that came down the gutter.
I then got a meter in and reduced the bill by less than half of previous
unmetered bill it would seem those on umetered water pay for
sewerage,sanitation,piping ect.
And when you go on a meter you only pay for what you use.


No, you pay for sewage and dranage services too.

Mary



No you don't.

Of course you do, it's factored into the incoming water usage

What do you expect - they put a meter on your crapper ?

--
geoff
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George wrote:

And when you go on a meter you only pay for what you use.

No, you pay for sewage and dranage services too.

Mary



No you don't.


You do here. Two different companies as well, one supplies, and another
charges for removal.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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\================================================= ================/
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Default A water meter fiddle?

On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 13:58:21 +0100, "Andy McKenzie"
wrote:


So if I nick your car it will be OK if I give it back a few years later?


Funny you should say that, the law would tend to support that
hypothesis. I don't know about years later, but some time later ...

I.E. TWOC-ing is not theft.

DG

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Default A water meter fiddle?

No, he is suggesting using the water that comes through the meter. He
is not wrongfully6 using his tap is he if he doesn't have it on full
when he doesn't want it on full.


He is howevr breaking the law if he deliberately contrives to cause
the meter to read incorrectly.

The "2 cistern" proposal wouldseemto do exactly that.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999

PART II

REQUIREMENTS

Restriction on installation etc. of water fittings

(2) No water fitting shall be installed, connected, arranged or used
in such a manner that it causes or is likely to cause-

(i) waste, misuse, undue consumption or contamination of water
supplied by a water undertaker; or

(ii) the erroneous measurement of water supplied by a water
undertaker.

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