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Default Party wall dispute - who pays?

I'm planning a loft conversion. It will require two steel joists
across the party walls of our terraced house. I've given the
neighbours party wall act letters and it's not going smoothly!

One of them is saying they want to have the wall surveyed. This seems
fair enough, but who pays for the survey? Is it just me, because I'm
the person doing the work? Seems a bit unfair as it gives a grumpy
neighbour the chance to cause me unnecessary costs. A chap up the road
had this situation and his neighbour insisted on using the most
expensive surveyor in town.

On the other side, the neighbour has just accepted an offer on her
flat. She doesn't now want to say yes to the party wall notice because
she will not be here when the work is done. She's also concerned with
putting off her buyer. As I understand it the party wall act is
nothing to do with this - she is the current owner and she is meant to
either say yes or go into dispute with me over it. It's up to her
buyer as to whether this affects the sale, but as long as all is
disclosed there should be no problem. Anyway, she's delaying, which
under the act automatically means we go into dispute after 2 weeks.
More costs, but what would a surveyor say about this anyway?!?

Any advice about how to deal with these issues?

Cheers,

John

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aboleth wrote:
I'm planning a loft conversion. It will require two steel joists
across the party walls of our terraced house. I've given the
neighbours party wall act letters and it's not going smoothly!

One of them is saying they want to have the wall surveyed. This seems
fair enough, but who pays for the survey? Is it just me, because I'm
the person doing the work? Seems a bit unfair as it gives a grumpy
neighbour the chance to cause me unnecessary costs. A chap up the road
had this situation and his neighbour insisted on using the most
expensive surveyor in town.

On the other side, the neighbour has just accepted an offer on her
flat. She doesn't now want to say yes to the party wall notice because
she will not be here when the work is done. She's also concerned with
putting off her buyer. As I understand it the party wall act is
nothing to do with this - she is the current owner and she is meant to
either say yes or go into dispute with me over it. It's up to her
buyer as to whether this affects the sale, but as long as all is
disclosed there should be no problem. Anyway, she's delaying, which
under the act automatically means we go into dispute after 2 weeks.
More costs, but what would a surveyor say about this anyway?!?

Any advice about how to deal with these issues?


The bottom line is you are responsible for the costs and you can find
details below. It also explains the detail about deadlines etc.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1131402

The crucial thing is to try and deal with the matter as amicably as
possible.

Peter Crosland



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Default Party wall dispute - who pays?

On 3 May, 12:34, "Peter Crosland" wrote:

The bottom line is you are responsible for the costs and you can find
details below. It also explains the detail about deadlines etc.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1131402


Thanks for the link. I have read that document but I didn't think it
made it clear where the financial responsibilities lie. I will read it
again. So essentally if a neighbour doesn't like the idea of one doing
some work, they are free to throw a hefty spanner in the works. I
guess the obverse would be that I was free to cost them money which
would also not seem right.


The crucial thing is to try and deal with the matter as amicably as
possible.


Indeed, I have good relations with my neighbours and I value that
immensely. I think they are both acting in good faith, but the one
who's delaying because of her house sale is leaving me with no option
other than to invoke the dispute procedure, as she's refusing to
respond either way. I think she is not thinking it through - if she
agrees and informs her buyer, she is surely in a better position than
if she disputes it with me, in which case she will have to tell her
buyer about that, which is more likely to put them off.



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Default Party wall dispute - who pays?

On 3 May 2007 04:47:19 -0700, aboleth wrote:

So essentally if a neighbour doesn't like the idea of one doing
some work, they are free to throw a hefty spanner in the works. I
guess the obverse would be that I was free to cost them money which
would also not seem right.


Purely as an outside observer.... Your neighbour is doing nothing to provoke
this situation. You are choosing to alter the structure which *may* undermine
his safety and security. Why on earth should he pay for your choices ?

Indeed, I have good relations with my neighbours and I value that
immensely. I think they are both acting in good faith, but the one
who's delaying because of her house sale is leaving me with no option
other than to invoke the dispute procedure, as she's refusing to
respond either way. I think she is not thinking it through - if she
agrees and informs her buyer, she is surely in a better position than
if she disputes it with me, in which case she will have to tell her
buyer about that, which is more likely to put them off.


Are your plans so urgent? Why not wait and deal with the new occupants and
safeguard her transaction in the process. If your proposals are sound, they will
get approved eventually.

Andy
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"aboleth" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm planning a loft conversion. It will require two steel joists
across the party walls of our terraced house. I've given the
neighbours party wall act letters and it's not going smoothly!

One of them is saying they want to have the wall surveyed. This seems
fair enough, but who pays for the survey? Is it just me, because I'm
the person doing the work? Seems a bit unfair as it gives a grumpy
neighbour the chance to cause me unnecessary costs. A chap up the road
had this situation and his neighbour insisted on using the most
expensive surveyor in town.

On the other side, the neighbour has just accepted an offer on her
flat. She doesn't now want to say yes to the party wall notice because
she will not be here when the work is done. She's also concerned with
putting off her buyer. As I understand it the party wall act is
nothing to do with this - she is the current owner and she is meant to
either say yes or go into dispute with me over it. It's up to her
buyer as to whether this affects the sale, but as long as all is
disclosed there should be no problem. Anyway, she's delaying, which
under the act automatically means we go into dispute after 2 weeks.
More costs, but what would a surveyor say about this anyway?!?

Any advice about how to deal with these issues?


The PW Act is basically toothless in that if you invoke it you end up paying
lots of money but if you ignore it it isn't retrospective. Just go ahead and
do the work, preferably while the neighbours are away and make sure you
don't damage their property in the process. If you give people PW notice of
course they'll want a surveyor to safeguard their interests at your expense
but if you just go ahead they'll have no idea how to take out an injunction
to stop you or want to pay the costs involved. Once the work is done your
only liability is for damages caused but you always faced those anyway.




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On 3 May, 13:36, "Dave Baker" wrote:
"aboleth" wrote in message

oups.com...



I'm planning a loft conversion. It will require two steel joists
across the party walls of our terraced house. I've given the
neighbours party wall act letters and it's not going smoothly!


One of them is saying they want to have the wall surveyed. This seems
fair enough, but who pays for the survey? Is it just me, because I'm
the person doing the work? Seems a bit unfair as it gives a grumpy
neighbour the chance to cause me unnecessary costs. A chap up the road
had this situation and his neighbour insisted on using the most
expensive surveyor in town.


On the other side, the neighbour has just accepted an offer on her
flat. She doesn't now want to say yes to the party wall notice because
she will not be here when the work is done. She's also concerned with
putting off her buyer. As I understand it the party wall act is
nothing to do with this - she is the current owner and she is meant to
either say yes or go into dispute with me over it. It's up to her
buyer as to whether this affects the sale, but as long as all is
disclosed there should be no problem. Anyway, she's delaying, which
under the act automatically means we go into dispute after 2 weeks.
More costs, but what would a surveyor say about this anyway?!?


Any advice about how to deal with these issues?


The PW Act is basically toothless in that if you invoke it you end up paying
lots of money but if you ignore it it isn't retrospective. Just go ahead and
do the work, preferably while the neighbours are away and make sure you
don't damage their property in the process. If you give people PW notice of
course they'll want a surveyor to safeguard their interests at your expense
but if you just go ahead they'll have no idea how to take out an injunction
to stop you or want to pay the costs involved. Once the work is done your
only liability is for damages caused but you always faced those anyway.


I think technically you're probably right and it did cross my mind to
go that way when I read that they would have to take out an injunction
to stop me. But as I said in an earlier post, I value my good
relations with the neighbours.

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On 3 May, 13:17, Andy Cap wrote:
On 3 May 2007 04:47:19 -0700, aboleth wrote:

So essentally if a neighbour doesn't like the idea of one doing
some work, they are free to throw a hefty spanner in the works. I
guess the obverse would be that I was free to cost them money which
would also not seem right.


Purely as an outside observer.... Your neighbour is doing nothing to provoke
this situation. You are choosing to alter the structure which *may* undermine
his safety and security. Why on earth should he pay for your choices ?

Indeed, I have good relations with my neighbours and I value that
immensely. I think they are both acting in good faith, but the one
who's delaying because of her house sale is leaving me with no option
other than to invoke the dispute procedure, as she's refusing to
respond either way. I think she is not thinking it through - if she
agrees and informs her buyer, she is surely in a better position than
if she disputes it with me, in which case she will have to tell her
buyer about that, which is more likely to put them off.


Are your plans so urgent? Why not wait and deal with the new occupants and
safeguard her transaction in the process. If your proposals are sound, they will
get approved eventually.

Sadly they are urgent, our planning permission is about to lapse. Long
story.

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On 3 May 2007 04:17:53 -0700 Aboleth wrote :
I'm planning a loft conversion. It will require two steel joists
across the party walls of our terraced house. I've given the
neighbours party wall act letters and it's not going smoothly!

One of them is saying they want to have the wall surveyed. This seems
fair enough, but who pays for the survey? Is it just me, because I'm
the person doing the work? Seems a bit unfair as it gives a grumpy
neighbour the chance to cause me unnecessary costs. A chap up the
road had this situation and his neighbour insisted on using the most
expensive surveyor in town.


You pay. 20 years back I did the plans for a loft conversion in Notting
Hill and my client said he couldn't be doing with all this nonsense.
Unfortunately the neighbour was a drinking buddy of a partner in a high
profile firm of Mayfair surveyors. After the stop work legal letter
guess who my client ended up paying for.

You might find it worth getting hold of a copy of "Party Walls: And
What to Do with Them" originally by John Anstey, latest revision 2005.
If it's as good as the original, you'll actually enjoy reading it!

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

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The PW Act is basically toothless in that if you invoke it you end
up paying lots of money but if you ignore it it isn't retrospective.
Just go ahead and do the work, preferably while the neighbours are
away and make sure you don't damage their property in the process.
If you give people PW notice of course they'll want a surveyor to
safeguard their interests at your expense but if you just go ahead
they'll have no idea how to take out an injunction to stop you or
want to pay the costs involved. Once the work is done your only
liability is for damages caused but you always faced those anyway.


Remarkably stupid advice from someone who clearly has no idea of the
consequences. The neighbour only has to go to a solicitor who can apply for
an injunction that day. You will end up paying all those costs as well as
those for the PWA fees. Furthermore if and when you come to sell the
property you will be asked to sign a declaration that all necessary
permissions have been obtained. With a PW award you are stuffed on that.

I think technically you're probably right and it did cross my mind to
go that way when I read that they would have to take out an injunction
to stop me. But as I said in an earlier post, I value my good
relations with the neighbours.


Peter Crosland



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aboleth wrote:
I'm planning a loft conversion. It will require two steel joists
across the party walls of our terraced house. I've given the
neighbours party wall act letters and it's not going smoothly!



Why don't you 'turn the steels round' and span them front to back rather
than side to side, and avoid the party wall work? If they span side to
side, how do you expect to get them in?

If your works impact on the Party Wall you need your neighbour's
consent. That is the law. If they don't consent, then a 'dispute' is
deemed to have arisen and the provisions of the Party Wall, etc. Act apply.

For a relatively straightforward job, like a loft conversion, the Act
encourages all the owners to appoint an 'agreed surveyor', who will
fairly look after everyone's interests. And you would be responsible
for settling that person's account.

You post tends to suggest that you a) are not familiar with the Party
Wall procedures, or b) were badly advised in the first place.


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Tony Bryer wrote:

also beam ends sticking out of a roof


This is a wind up, right?
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In article ,
PL wrote:
I'm planning a loft conversion. It will require two steel joists
across the party walls of our terraced house. I've given the
neighbours party wall act letters and it's not going smoothly!


Why don't you 'turn the steels round' and span them front to back rather
than side to side, and avoid the party wall work?


Are you going to totally alter the roof too as these will often be purlins?
Also most houses are narrower side to side than front to back.

If they span side to
side, how do you expect to get them in?


You joint them or more commonly cut grooves to the padstones.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On Thu, 03 May 2007 17:38:56 +0100 Pl wrote :
Why don't you 'turn the steels round' and span them front to back rather
than side to side, and avoid the party wall work? If they span side to
side, how do you expect to get them in?


On most houses, side to side is the shorter span and you've got masses of
brickwork to dissipate the concentrated loads under the beam ends. If you've
got a bay window at the front its' even harder, also beam ends sticking out
of a roof and leaded over look awful IMO.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

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"aboleth" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm planning a loft conversion. It will require two steel joists
across the party walls of our terraced house. I've given the
neighbours party wall act letters and it's not going smoothly!

_Across_ the party wall?
Do you mean _penetrating_ the PW so that part of your steel joists will be
visible from your neighbours' side of the PW.? The usual practise is for the
joists to be fitted to 'hangars' on your sides.

One of them is saying they want to have the wall surveyed. This seems
fair enough, but who pays for the survey? Is it just me, because I'm
the person doing the work?


Yep!

--

Brian


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In article ,
Brian Sharrock wrote:
_Across_ the party wall? Do you mean _penetrating_ the PW so that part
of your steel joists will be visible from your neighbours' side of the
PW.? The usual practise is for the joists to be fitted to 'hangars' on
your sides.


Of course houses vary in construction but with mine the party wall is 9"
brick so you simply remove one bricks worth of thickness and cast in a
padstone.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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On 3 May, 19:09, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Brian Sharrock wrote:

_Across_ the party wall? Do you mean _penetrating_ the PW so that part
of your steel joists will be visible from your neighbours' side of the
PW.? The usual practise is for the joists to be fitted to 'hangars' on
your sides.


Of course houses vary in construction but with mine the party wall is 9"
brick so you simply remove one bricks worth of thickness and cast in a
padstone.


This is indeed the plan. We may joint the steels to get them in. Front-
back is much longer and there is a bay, plus the party walls are
designed to be load bearing, all the floor joists run side to side.
It's the standard way to do it around here.

While I accept that if I want to do work for my benefit, I should pay
for any surveys, it does seem unfair that an uncooperative neighbour
can force me to have to shell out for two surveyors. If all the
involved parties did this, I would be facing a hurdle of several
thousand before I could even start work, so effectively my neighbours
could make it impossible to proceed.


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On 3 May, 19:40, aboleth wrote:
On 3 May, 19:09, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Brian Sharrock wrote:


_Across_ the party wall? Do you mean _penetrating_ the PW so that part
of your steel joists will be visible from your neighbours' side of the
PW.? The usual practise is for the joists to be fitted to 'hangars' on
your sides.


Of course houses vary in construction but with mine the party wall is 9"
brick so you simply remove one bricks worth of thickness and cast in a
padstone.


This is indeed the plan. We may joint the steels to get them in. Front-
back is much longer and there is a bay, plus the party walls are
designed to be load bearing, all the floor joists run side to side.
It's the standard way to do it around here.

While I accept that if I want to do work for my benefit, I should pay
for any surveys, it does seem unfair that an uncooperative neighbour
can force me to have to shell out for two surveyors. If all the
involved parties did this, I would be facing a hurdle of several
thousand before I could even start work, so effectively my neighbours
could make it impossible to proceed.


When I did this I paid my surveyor to look at the neighbours side,
before doing anything.
It would be a very unreasonable neighbour who refuses this IMHO

The peace of mind of being to give ownership for any future compliants
to someone elses indemnity insurance was worth £350 easily
HTH phil

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"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
...


The PW Act is basically toothless in that if you invoke it you end
up paying lots of money but if you ignore it it isn't retrospective.
Just go ahead and do the work, preferably while the neighbours are
away and make sure you don't damage their property in the process.
If you give people PW notice of course they'll want a surveyor to
safeguard their interests at your expense but if you just go ahead
they'll have no idea how to take out an injunction to stop you or
want to pay the costs involved. Once the work is done your only
liability is for damages caused but you always faced those anyway.


Remarkably stupid advice from someone who clearly has no idea of the
consequences.


I have a very detailed idea of the consequences having been in the situation
and made a study of the issues.

The neighbour only has to go to a solicitor who can apply for
an injunction that day.


The neighbour has to be damn sure that whatever work they can hear being
done actually falls within the Party Wall Act provisions and that they have
a right to stop it. In most cases, the vast majority in fact, your average
neighbour will have no idea how to obtain an injunction, whether he is
entitled to one, what the PW Act is or that it even exists. The court will
want evidence that it's a PW matter before granting an injunction and if it
turns out that the neighbour has stopped the work without cause he can end
up on the receiving end of a claim for the additional costs he's created.

You will end up paying all those costs as well as
those for the PWA fees.


Only if the neighbour sues you to recover those costs and wins. Taking out
an injunction doesn't mean that the court awards the costs of it to the
other party

Furthermore if and when you come to sell the
property you will be asked to sign a declaration that all necessary
permissions have been obtained. With a PW award you are stuffed on that.


Any Party Wall matter that requires the appointment of surveyors is
technically classed as a dispute anyway and will affect both properties when
it becomes time to sell. However it's a common and easily explained matter
and unlikely to make a scrap of difference to a buyer.

To the OP. Ask any surveyor about PW matters and you'll find that in nearly
100% of cases if you serve a PW notice on a neighbour they'll escalate it to
a 'dispute' simply by not agreeing to the works within 14 days and also
require their own surveyor in addition to yours. It's a no lose situation
for them and in fact the prudent thing to do. So these costs should always
be factored in because they're always going to arise.

Similarly however, if you don't give PW notice then in nearly all cases
nothing will happen when you do the work. Your problem is in having given
the notice and revealed your hand. One strategy is to do some additional
works close to the party wall which don't actually affect it and see what
happens. The noise will travel through to the other side from a long way
from the party wall and quite likely sound as though it's affecting it. If
the neighbours threaten an injunction you can let them in the safe knowledge
that you aren't actually doing PW works. It will cost them a grand or so to
take out the injunction and they have no way of getting that back from you.
If nothing happens with what sounds to them like PW works then it's unlikely
anything will when you actually do the PW works.

Once the PW works are complete there's nothing they can do anyway. If you
can tell when they're in or out and do it when they're away there's really
nothing to stop you.
--
"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious
convictions." - Blaise Pascal


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aboleth wrote:
On 3 May, 19:09, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Brian Sharrock wrote:

_Across_ the party wall? Do you mean _penetrating_ the PW so that
part of your steel joists will be visible from your neighbours'
side of the PW.? The usual practise is for the joists to be fitted
to 'hangars' on your sides.


Of course houses vary in construction but with mine the party wall
is 9" brick so you simply remove one bricks worth of thickness and
cast in a padstone.


This is indeed the plan. We may joint the steels to get them in.
Front- back is much longer and there is a bay, plus the party walls
are designed to be load bearing, all the floor joists run side to
side. It's the standard way to do it around here.

While I accept that if I want to do work for my benefit, I should pay
for any surveys, it does seem unfair that an uncooperative neighbour
can force me to have to shell out for two surveyors. If all the
involved parties did this, I would be facing a hurdle of several
thousand before I could even start work, so effectively my neighbours
could make it impossible to proceed.


Why do you think you should be exempt from complying fully with the Act?
Your neighbours are entitled to the protection that the Act gives. It also
gives you some protection if anything goes wrong with work the surveyor(s)
have approved. Regard as a form of insurance.

Peter Crosland



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In article .com,
aboleth wrote:


Indeed, I have good relations with my neighbours and I value that
immensely.


We insisted on a survey when our neighbours knocked down an extension
alongside ours, but mainly because they never once spoke to us after we
moved in...

E.


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On Thu, 03 May 2007 18:05:43 +0100 Pl wrote :
also beam ends sticking out of a roof


This is a wind up, right?


No, I could take you to several examples round here where the main beams
run out to the hipped end of a semi and the beam end sticks up above the
plane of the tiling.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

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On Thu, 03 May 2007 19:09:48 +0100 Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
Of course houses vary in construction but with mine the party wall is 9"
brick so you simply remove one bricks worth of thickness and cast in a
padstone.


There was the sad case of the house in Tooting where I designed a loft
conversion only to find out too late (i.e. when the builder cut the
pockets for the beams) that it had a 4 1/2" party wall. "We always thought
that the neighbours were rather noisy" said the sad householder.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

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On Thu, 3 May 2007 22:00:09 +0100 Dave Baker wrote :
The neighbour has to be damn sure that whatever work they can hear being
done actually falls within the Party Wall Act provisions and that they have
a right to stop it. In most cases, the vast majority in fact, your average
neighbour will have no idea how to obtain an injunction, whether he is
entitled to one, what the PW Act is or that it even exists.


Until he phones up Building Control who fill him in on his rights ... and
chats to the builders who tell him what they are planning. Your 'advice' is
some of the most irresponsible I have ever read in this group.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

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aboleth wrote:

Sadly they are urgent, our planning permission is about to lapse. Long
story.


I thought that once you had started work the PP would not lapse? The
work you start does not have to be party wall related I would have thought?

--
Cheers,

John.

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Default Party wall dispute - who pays?

On Thu, 3 May 2007 22:00:09 +0100, "Dave Baker" wrote:

Similarly however, if you don't give PW notice then in nearly all cases
nothing will happen when you do the work. Your problem is in having given
the notice and revealed your hand.


Where in *your* scheme is there any protection for the completely innocent
neighbour, from having work performed on *their* property, which may have
serious consequences for the structural integrity of their home ? There is
clearly something wrong with your reasoning, if you have to be so deceitful.

Andy


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Default Party wall dispute - who pays?

On 2007-05-04 12:26:15 +0100, Tony Bryer said:

On Fri, 04 May 2007 08:59:35 +0100 Owain wrote :
Presumably it would work somewhere like it does in Scotland, which has
lots of party walls (and floors and ceilings) in flats, and manages
quite well without a Party Wall Act.


England and Wales outside the old London County Council (inner London)
area didn't have one until comparatively recently.


Which does beg the question of whether this is yet another piece of
legislation which attempts to address a problem that doesn't really
exist, does so poorly and ineffectively because people don't know how
to use it, and therefore achieves little or nothing.

I don't recall hearing horror stories of houses falling down prior to
1986 because of this.....


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On Fri, 04 May 2007 08:59:35 +0100 Owain wrote :
Presumably it would work somewhere like it does in Scotland, which has
lots of party walls (and floors and ceilings) in flats, and manages
quite well without a Party Wall Act.


England and Wales outside the old London County Council (inner London)
area didn't have one until comparatively recently.

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On Fri, 4 May 2007 11:58:12 +0100 Andy Hall wrote :
Which does beg the question of whether this is yet another piece of
legislation which attempts to address a problem that doesn't really
exist, does so poorly and ineffectively because people don't know how
to use it, and therefore achieves little or nothing.

I don't recall hearing horror stories of houses falling down prior to
1986 because of this.....


It's one of those cases where most of the time there is no apparent
benefit, just cost. But without the PWA if your neighbour sets about doing
works that are likely to be problematic you can do nothing until actual
damage is caused. At which point he will say that the cracks in your wall
were there before he started work.

Operated sensibly, you give notice to the AO who gets his surveyor (who
sensibly could be your surveyor on a small job) to review what is
proposed, ensure there are no issues to be addressed agrees a schedule of
condition of the wall on his side. That, inter alia, gives you protection
against false claims of damage.

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"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 May 2007 22:00:09 +0100, "Dave Baker" wrote:

Similarly however, if you don't give PW notice then in nearly all cases
nothing will happen when you do the work. Your problem is in having given
the notice and revealed your hand.


Where in *your* scheme is there any protection for the completely innocent
neighbour, from having work performed on *their* property, which may have
serious consequences for the structural integrity of their home ? There is
clearly something wrong with your reasoning, if you have to be so
deceitful.


If the boundary runs down the middle of the party wall then technically each
person owns one half of it up to the boundary line. This is the situation
that applies to most terraced or semi-detached houses and works done by one
party on his side of the wall wouldn't be on the neighbour's property
anyway. In addition the PW Act covers situations where work is done near a
boundary and again not actually on the neighbour's property. His protection
in law is what it always has been since before the PW Act came into force in
1997. Trespass and criminal damage if work is done without his consent on
his property and a claim for costs if work done near a party wall causes
damage to his property. The PW Act doesn't change any of that or in most
cases give any additional protection compared to works done properly and
with due care without it. What it does do is add a lot of extra cost like
Part P and other similar legislation to try and prevent a problem that
hardly ever occurs anyway.


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Default Party wall dispute - who pays?

In message .com,
aboleth writes
I'm planning a loft conversion. It will require two steel joists
across the party walls of our terraced house. I've given the
neighbours party wall act letters and it's not going smoothly!

One of them is saying they want to have the wall surveyed. This seems
fair enough, but who pays for the survey? Is it just me, because I'm
the person doing the work? Seems a bit unfair as it gives a grumpy
neighbour the chance to cause me unnecessary costs. A chap up the road
had this situation and his neighbour insisted on using the most
expensive surveyor in town.

On the other side, the neighbour has just accepted an offer on her
flat. She doesn't now want to say yes to the party wall notice because
she will not be here when the work is done. She's also concerned with
putting off her buyer. As I understand it the party wall act is
nothing to do with this - she is the current owner and she is meant to
either say yes or go into dispute with me over it. It's up to her
buyer as to whether this affects the sale, but as long as all is
disclosed there should be no problem. Anyway, she's delaying, which
under the act automatically means we go into dispute after 2 weeks.
More costs, but what would a surveyor say about this anyway?!?

Any advice about how to deal with these issues?


Hi,

Yes you have to pay for any surveys done, expect around 250 - 300 each.
You might get a better deal to have both side done on the same visit by
the same surveyor.

I can't suggest how to deal with your uncooperative neighbour, but as
you rightly noted if she doesn't agree then you are automatically
considered to be in dispute. The procedure is well documented, but she
must disclose this to her buyer or risk consequences for herself.

As an aside, I appreciate the cost of the surveys but they are there to
protect both of you, not just your neighbour.

Imagine if two weeks after you finish the work, a neighbour pops his
head up to point out all of his ceilings are now cracked, cracking
plaster on the party wall etc etc etc.

I have a great neighbour who I get with very well, he was happy for me
to go ahead without any surveys. Once I explained how it gives us both
protection (even from future claims/owners) we agreed we'd have a joint
surveyor at my cost.

Hth
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Someone


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On Thu, 03 May 2007 22:20:39 GMT, a particular chimpanzee, Tony Bryer
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

On Thu, 3 May 2007 22:00:09 +0100 Dave Baker wrote :
In most cases, the vast majority in fact, your average
neighbour will have no idea how to obtain an injunction, whether he is
entitled to one, what the PW Act is or that it even exists.


Until he phones up Building Control who fill him in on his rights ...


Things may different in Londonshire where you've had the Party Wall
act for ages, but we in the sticks have only had it for a few years,
so it's not pervaded our subconsciousness. I wouldn't presume to fill
someone in on their rights; at best I'd send 'em a leaflet and tell
them to see a Party Wall Surveyor.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"
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