Hi all.
My parent's house (4 beds) needs a new gas boiler. Quotes for this and
to "modernise" the heating system range from just over 3K-4K - seems a
lot of money.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the way to proceed. Is
this a reasonable price? How do I watch for rip-offs etc? What *needs*
doing from a legal point of view?
My ideas are 1) scrap the gas completely and go all electric (is this
possible with a water-based radiator system? Is it feasible on the cost
front? Perhaps going with economy 7 for hot water (currently have a
lagged tank in the airing cupboard).

Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated.

Vista

In article ,
Vista writes:
Hi all.
My parent's house (4 beds) needs a new gas boiler. Quotes for this and
to "modernise" the heating system range from just over 3K-4K - seems a
lot of money.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the way to proceed. Is
this a reasonable price? How do I watch for rip-offs etc? What *needs*
doing from a legal point of view?
My ideas are 1) scrap the gas completely and go all electric (is this
possible with a water-based radiator system? Is it feasible on the cost
front? Perhaps going with economy 7 for hot water (currently have a
lagged tank in the airing cupboard).

Start by giving much more detail of the current system.

Boiler make/model/size/age, condition of pipework, radiators
(do they look fine, or like they're all just about to rust
through?), do they have thermostatic radiator valves, is there
a room stat somewhere?

Also number of rooms, number of baths/showers and usage pattern,
normal number of house occupents. Does the existing system cope
(or did it when it was working properly)?
Why does it need a new boiler now?
Who did you get quotes from, and what do they include?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Vista writes:
Hi all.
My parent's house (4 beds) needs a new gas boiler. Quotes for this and
to "modernise" the heating system range from just over 3K-4K - seems a
lot of money.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the way to proceed. Is
this a reasonable price? How do I watch for rip-offs etc? What *needs*
doing from a legal point of view?
My ideas are 1) scrap the gas completely and go all electric (is this
possible with a water-based radiator system? Is it feasible on the cost
front? Perhaps going with economy 7 for hot water (currently have a
lagged tank in the airing cupboard).

Start by giving much more detail of the current system.

Boiler make/model/size/age, condition of pipework, radiators
(do they look fine, or like they're all just about to rust
through?), do they have thermostatic radiator valves, is there
a room stat somewhere?

Also number of rooms, number of baths/showers and usage pattern,
normal number of house occupents. Does the existing system cope
(or did it when it was working properly)?
Why does it need a new boiler now?
Who did you get quotes from, and what do they include?

Boiler make - will look today, at least 20 years old.
Occupants: 2
Showers: 2 a day (one each), baths once a week (each person)
Radiators - mainly good condition 9one small leak on inlet (nothing serious)
pipework: OK
rooms: 4 beds, kitchen, dinning, living, hall, 2 bathrooms, storeroom.
existing system: working OK, but very old and very expensive to run
Quotes (don't actually have them but will report back)

In article ,
Vista writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Vista writes:
Hi all.
My parent's house (4 beds) needs a new gas boiler. Quotes for this and
to "modernise" the heating system range from just over 3K-4K - seems a
lot of money.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the way to proceed. Is
this a reasonable price? How do I watch for rip-offs etc? What *needs*
doing from a legal point of view?
My ideas are 1) scrap the gas completely and go all electric (is this
possible with a water-based radiator system? Is it feasible on the cost
front? Perhaps going with economy 7 for hot water (currently have a
lagged tank in the airing cupboard).

Start by giving much more detail of the current system.

Boiler make/model/size/age, condition of pipework, radiators
(do they look fine, or like they're all just about to rust
through?), do they have thermostatic radiator valves, is there
a room stat somewhere?

Also number of rooms, number of baths/showers and usage pattern,
normal number of house occupents. Does the existing system cope
(or did it when it was working properly)?
Why does it need a new boiler now?
Who did you get quotes from, and what do they include?

Boiler make - will look today, at least 20 years old.
Occupants: 2
Showers: 2 a day (one each), baths once a week (each person)
Radiators - mainly good condition 9one small leak on inlet (nothing serious)
pipework: OK
rooms: 4 beds, kitchen, dinning, living, hall, 2 bathrooms, storeroom.
existing system: working OK, but very old and very expensive to run

What is the existing expense, given you are considering several
£k to fix it?
Repeated boiler breakdowns and callouts?
Boiler servicing?
Fuel?

In the latter case, what's the state of the insulation in the house?
Loft?
cavity wall?
Drafty doors/windows?
Fixing any of these might be a lot cheaper and more effective; you
might gain as much as a 50% reduction in fuel. Replacing a 20 year
old boiler is only likely to get around a 20% reduction, or
possibly more if the existing controls (thermostat, etc) are wasteful
and need replacing too. (You could replace controls by themselves.)

Quotes (don't actually have them but will report back)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Vista" wrote in message ...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Vista writes:
Hi all.
My parent's house (4 beds) needs a new gas boiler. Quotes for this and
to "modernise" the heating system range from just over 3K-4K - seems a
lot of money.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the way to proceed. Is
this a reasonable price? How do I watch for rip-offs etc? What *needs*
doing from a legal point of view?
My ideas are 1) scrap the gas completely and go all electric (is this
possible with a water-based radiator system? Is it feasible on the cost
front? Perhaps going with economy 7 for hot water (currently have a
lagged tank in the airing cupboard).

Start by giving much more detail of the current system.

Boiler make/model/size/age, condition of pipework, radiators
(do they look fine, or like they're all just about to rust
through?), do they have thermostatic radiator valves, is there
a room stat somewhere?

Also number of rooms, number of baths/showers and usage pattern,
normal number of house occupents. Does the existing system cope
(or did it when it was working properly)?
Why does it need a new boiler now?
Who did you get quotes from, and what do they include?

Boiler make - will look today, at least 20 years old.
Occupants: 2
Showers: 2 a day (one each), baths once a week (each person)
Radiators - mainly good condition 9one small leak on inlet (nothing
serious)
pipework: OK
rooms: 4 beds, kitchen, dinning, living, hall, 2 bathrooms, storeroom.
existing system: working OK, but very old and very expensive to run
Quotes (don't actually have them but will report back)


A new gasboiler isn't that expensive, you can get a combination one for
around £600 and fitting it doesn't take long. Trade prices are even
cheaper, especially to bigger companies. The system will be flushed out and
refilled with a corrosion inhibiter. An entire new heating system with
pipes etc will cost a lot, but is not required. Some companies will lie
about replacing copper pipes and just use the old ones.
If your parents are with british Gas, don't forget that they increased their
prices by 91% in 12months using a variety of excuses. They recently reduced
them slightly but are still 100% more expensive unit for unit than what I am
paying with another company. People staying with BG are stupid or a bit too
slow to understand what a price increase is!
Your parents could get a simple replacement boiler (made by Ideal) for £400
to replace an old one on the type of system they have. I had mine done as I
didn't want a combination boiler.
It was put in a cupboard by the bathroom. A gas pipe was fitted, then the
pipes feeding the old back boiler behind the living room fire capped off and
the inlet/outlet connected to the heating system and tank. A new pump and
valve were added. It took about 5 hours to sort out as a new programmer and
thermostat were installed.
A certificate was issued by the Corgi fitter and that was it! The flue just
goes out of the wall and sticks out about 8 inches. The condensation drain
drops in to a nearby hopper for the rainwater.

Unfortunately a lot of companies will try to rip you off and once they see
older people that's it. Far too many want to get rich quick rather than
provide a good service and get repeated custom.
I know one local council that recommend a company who simply subcontract
unqualified people to fit central heating. The council still refuses to
stop recommending them as they paid "to advertise" in their local public
info brochures.

As for storage heaters, I would be interested to know what you were quoted
for that. It will mean floorboards coming up! Each heater will require
it's own mains cable and that leads to a new consumer unit. Maybe a new
main fuse. Also watch that the house is not fed from a cable used for a
neighbour. This "one feed per two houses" used to be common practice years
ago rather than each house having it's own main cable coming in from the
street. I looked at a few houses in Chester that had gone on fire when the
economy 7 kicked in due to overloading the supply cable. Then a lot of
companies will not connect up your "old" house wiring so will suggest a
rewire which again is an excuse for a blank cheque. On the economy 7 it's
far more expensive per unit in the day, but cheaper at night. So in the day
and especially summer you pay far more for electric.

I would stick to gas and get a few more quotes being specific in what YOU
require. Tell the company you ONLY need a replacement boiler. The whole
job including the supply and fitting of a condensing boiler should cost no
more than £800 as a maximum.

If your parents are getting on a bit tell them to apply for a "warmfront
grant" and they can get the boiler replaced for free (if they meet certain
requirements), they can also get cavity wall insulation and loft/tank
insulation free.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:49:42 +0100, "Bob" mused:

A new gasboiler isn't that expensive, you can get a combination one for
around £600 and fitting it doesn't take long. Trade prices are even
cheaper, especially to bigger companies. The system will be flushed out and
refilled with a corrosion inhibiter. An entire new heating system with
pipes etc will cost a lot, but is not required. Some companies will lie
about replacing copper pipes and just use the old ones.

A load of ********. Sure in some cases it can be that easy but you
have to take each job on it's own merits. You obviously harbour some
grudge about something and therfore have a bitter and twisted biased
outlook on this.


Then a lot of
companies will not connect up your "old" house wiring

Where do you get this from? As long as it's safe then it can be
reconnected. Even if it's unsafe it can be reconnected as long as you
are made aware of the fact.

so will suggest a
rewire which again is an excuse for a blank cheque.

No, a rewire isn't a blalk cheque. IF the quotes are brought in before
the job starts and it's carried out by a reputable company then
there's no blank cheques involved.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Vista writes:
Hi all.
My parent's house (4 beds) needs a new gas boiler. Quotes for this and
to "modernise" the heating system range from just over 3K-4K - seems a
lot of money.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the way to proceed. Is
this a reasonable price? How do I watch for rip-offs etc? What *needs*
doing from a legal point of view?
My ideas are 1) scrap the gas completely and go all electric (is this
possible with a water-based radiator system? Is it feasible on the cost
front? Perhaps going with economy 7 for hot water (currently have a
lagged tank in the airing cupboard).

Start by giving much more detail of the current system.

Boiler make/model/size/age, condition of pipework, radiators
(do they look fine, or like they're all just about to rust
through?), do they have thermostatic radiator valves, is there
a room stat somewhere?

Also number of rooms, number of baths/showers and usage pattern,
normal number of house occupents. Does the existing system cope
(or did it when it was working properly)?
Why does it need a new boiler now?
Who did you get quotes from, and what do they include?

Boiler is a Ideal W RS 450 (Stellard Group).

Quote (EDF):
de-sludge
remove existing boiler, hot water tank, unnecessary piping, close flue hole
fit new boiler (Vaillant Ecomax PRO 18E + fan assisted vertical flue
each radiator to have new chromium Belmont Terrier Lockshield valve
new tank 117L pre-lagged copper indirect cylinder
21mm plastic condense pipe
install one Blackerloy anti-corrosive thermo 3kw immersion heater and
power supply
ACL LP 722 digital programmer
supply Grundfos 15-50 variable head pump (to new cylinder)
supply and fit RF2 24 hour wireless room thermostat
cylinder thermostat - to control temp of hot water (in conjunction with
hot water cylinder
Honeywell three port controlling motorised value
13 amp switched fuse spur adjacent to boiler
heating circuit to be reconnected (BSS 2871X copper) - pipework in in
cupboard areas to be lagged in climatube poly lagging
system filling with Sentinel x300 and cleaned, then Sentinel x100
inhibitor added. Refill system , balance and test
£3,600

Vista





Vista

Bob wrote:
I would stick to gas and get a few more quotes being specific in what YOU
require. Tell the company you ONLY need a replacement boiler. The whole
job including the supply and fitting of a condensing boiler should cost no
more than £800 as a maximum.

I think you'd be doing pretty damned well to get a new boiler supplied
and fitted by a CORGI for that price...

David

"Vista" wrote in message ...
Boiler is a Ideal W RS 450 (Stellard Group).

Quote (EDF):
de-sludge
remove existing boiler, hot water tank, unnecessary piping, close flue
hole
fit new boiler (Vaillant Ecomax PRO 18E + fan assisted vertical flue
each radiator to have new chromium Belmont Terrier Lockshield valve
new tank 117L pre-lagged copper indirect cylinder
21mm plastic condense pipe
install one Blackerloy anti-corrosive thermo 3kw immersion heater and
power supply
ACL LP 722 digital programmer
supply Grundfos 15-50 variable head pump (to new cylinder)
supply and fit RF2 24 hour wireless room thermostat
cylinder thermostat - to control temp of hot water (in conjunction with
hot water cylinder
Honeywell three port controlling motorised value
13 amp switched fuse spur adjacent to boiler
heating circuit to be reconnected (BSS 2871X copper) - pipework in in
cupboard areas to be lagged in climatube poly lagging
system filling with Sentinel x300 and cleaned, then Sentinel x100
inhibitor added. Refill system , balance and test
£3,600

Now you've got at least one fairly comprehensive quote. Get some more and
eventually you will have the market price for somebody doing the job for
you. The EDF one doesn't seem bad considering the non-combi scope.
Bechmark it against BG and an independent. You may be able to find cheaper.
Only you can decide the value of going with a big name.

( I assume its you that has omitted the TRVs)

Jim A

In article ,
Vista writes:
Quote (EDF):
de-sludge
remove existing boiler, hot water tank, unnecessary piping, close flue hole
fit new boiler (Vaillant Ecomax PRO 18E + fan assisted vertical flue
each radiator to have new chromium Belmont Terrier Lockshield valve
new tank 117L pre-lagged copper indirect cylinder
21mm plastic condense pipe
install one Blackerloy anti-corrosive thermo 3kw immersion heater and
power supply
ACL LP 722 digital programmer
supply Grundfos 15-50 variable head pump (to new cylinder)
supply and fit RF2 24 hour wireless room thermostat
cylinder thermostat - to control temp of hot water (in conjunction with
hot water cylinder
Honeywell three port controlling motorised value
13 amp switched fuse spur adjacent to boiler
heating circuit to be reconnected (BSS 2871X copper) - pipework in in
cupboard areas to be lagged in climatube poly lagging
system filling with Sentinel x300 and cleaned, then Sentinel x100
inhibitor added. Refill system , balance and test
£3,600

Well, except the the radiators and some of the pipework,
that's a complete new central heating system.

I would find a local independant plumber and ask for a quote
for replacing the boiler. They'll still do more than just that,
but maybe get away with less than EDF and without the large
company overheards.

You still didn't reply to my question about where the expense
arises in the current system, maintenance, servicing or fuel.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Vista writes:
Quote (EDF):
de-sludge
remove existing boiler, hot water tank, unnecessary piping, close flue hole
fit new boiler (Vaillant Ecomax PRO 18E + fan assisted vertical flue
each radiator to have new chromium Belmont Terrier Lockshield valve
new tank 117L pre-lagged copper indirect cylinder
21mm plastic condense pipe
install one Blackerloy anti-corrosive thermo 3kw immersion heater and
power supply
ACL LP 722 digital programmer
supply Grundfos 15-50 variable head pump (to new cylinder)
supply and fit RF2 24 hour wireless room thermostat
cylinder thermostat - to control temp of hot water (in conjunction with
hot water cylinder
Honeywell three port controlling motorised value
13 amp switched fuse spur adjacent to boiler
heating circuit to be reconnected (BSS 2871X copper) - pipework in in
cupboard areas to be lagged in climatube poly lagging
system filling with Sentinel x300 and cleaned, then Sentinel x100
inhibitor added. Refill system , balance and test
£3,600

Well, except the the radiators and some of the pipework,
that's a complete new central heating system.

I would find a local independant plumber and ask for a quote
for replacing the boiler. They'll still do more than just that,
but maybe get away with less than EDF and without the large
company overheards.

You still didn't reply to my question about where the expense
arises in the current system, maintenance, servicing or fuel.

The boiler is serviced once a year - normal cost for new or old boiler,
I presume.
Annual spend on gas about 800 quid
breakdowns - non-yet, but the system is very old and will *need* to be
replaced sometime soon I imagine.

So far nobody has mentioned the electricity only route, and whether that
might be viable. I guess the water radiators would have to go, but so
would the cost of the new boiler and the annual servicing.
Anybody know anything about economy 7 or 10 or whatever it's called
these days? My experience E7 heating is that it's crap, but hot water
has been excellent.

Vista

Vista

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:38:21 +0100, Vista mused:

So far nobody has mentioned the electricity only route, and whether that
might be viable. I guess the water radiators would have to go,

No, you could use an electric boiler but it is hugely more inefficient
than a gas\oil boiler.

but so
would the cost of the new boiler and the annual servicing.

But running costs would spiral upwards.

Anybody know anything about economy 7 or 10 or whatever it's called
these days? My experience E7 heating is that it's crap, but hot water
has been excellent.

If there's an option to have gas or oil fired then forget about
electric.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Jim Alexander wrote:
"Vista" wrote in message ...
Boiler is a Ideal W RS 450 (Stellard Group).
Quote (EDF):
de-sludge
remove existing boiler, hot water tank, unnecessary piping, close flue
hole
fit new boiler (Vaillant Ecomax PRO 18E + fan assisted vertical flue
each radiator to have new chromium Belmont Terrier Lockshield valve
new tank 117L pre-lagged copper indirect cylinder
21mm plastic condense pipe
install one Blackerloy anti-corrosive thermo 3kw immersion heater and
power supply
ACL LP 722 digital programmer
supply Grundfos 15-50 variable head pump (to new cylinder)
supply and fit RF2 24 hour wireless room thermostat
cylinder thermostat - to control temp of hot water (in conjunction with
hot water cylinder
Honeywell three port controlling motorised value
13 amp switched fuse spur adjacent to boiler
heating circuit to be reconnected (BSS 2871X copper) - pipework in in
cupboard areas to be lagged in climatube poly lagging
system filling with Sentinel x300 and cleaned, then Sentinel x100
inhibitor added. Refill system , balance and test
£3,600

Now you've got at least one fairly comprehensive quote. Get some more and
eventually you will have the market price for somebody doing the job for
you. The EDF one doesn't seem bad considering the non-combi scope.
Bechmark it against BG and an independent. You may be able to find cheaper.
Only you can decide the value of going with a big name.

( I assume its you that has omitted the TRVs)

Jim A

Yes, sorry.

To suppply and fit Belmont Terrier thermo controlled radiator valves on
all radiators excluding are where new wireless room thermostat is fitted.

Vista

Lurch wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:38:21 +0100, Vista mused:

So far nobody has mentioned the electricity only route, and whether that
might be viable. I guess the water radiators would have to go,

No, you could use an electric boiler but it is hugely more inefficient
than a gas\oil boiler.

but so
would the cost of the new boiler and the annual servicing.

But running costs would spiral upwards.

Anybody know anything about economy 7 or 10 or whatever it's called
these days? My experience E7 heating is that it's crap, but hot water
has been excellent.

If there's an option to have gas or oil fired then forget about
electric.

Why not (individually controlled) electric heaters in each room running
on night electric?

Vista

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:57:01 +0100, Vista mused:

Lurch wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:38:21 +0100, Vista mused:

So far nobody has mentioned the electricity only route, and whether that
might be viable. I guess the water radiators would have to go,

No, you could use an electric boiler but it is hugely more inefficient
than a gas\oil boiler.

but so
would the cost of the new boiler and the annual servicing.

But running costs would spiral upwards.

Anybody know anything about economy 7 or 10 or whatever it's called
these days? My experience E7 heating is that it's crap, but hot water
has been excellent.

If there's an option to have gas or oil fired then forget about
electric.

Why not (individually controlled) electric heaters in each room running
on night electric?

Convenience\usability and running costs mainly.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Vista wrote:


Why not (individually controlled) electric heaters in each room
running on night electric?

Vista

Fine if you're up and about all night, and sleep during the daytime.
Otherwise, a waste of space!

Although modern electric storage heaters are better than earlier ones, they
still leave a lot to be desired. You have to anticipate when it's going to
be cold. If it's unexpectedly mild, they'll still give out some of their
heat even if you don't want it. In cold weather they will have exhausted all
the stored heat long before the next overnight boost is due. Electricity
(even off-peak) is more expensive than gas.

Other than that, they're the best thing since sliced bread. g
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Vista wrote:
Jim Alexander wrote:
"Vista" wrote in message
...
Boiler is a Ideal W RS 450 (Stellard Group).
Quote (EDF):
de-sludge
remove existing boiler, hot water tank, unnecessary piping, close
flue hole
fit new boiler (Vaillant Ecomax PRO 18E + fan assisted vertical flue
each radiator to have new chromium Belmont Terrier Lockshield valve
new tank 117L pre-lagged copper indirect cylinder
21mm plastic condense pipe
install one Blackerloy anti-corrosive thermo 3kw immersion heater and
power supply
ACL LP 722 digital programmer
supply Grundfos 15-50 variable head pump (to new cylinder)
supply and fit RF2 24 hour wireless room thermostat
cylinder thermostat - to control temp of hot water (in conjunction
with hot water cylinder
Honeywell three port controlling motorised value
13 amp switched fuse spur adjacent to boiler
heating circuit to be reconnected (BSS 2871X copper) - pipework in in
cupboard areas to be lagged in climatube poly lagging
system filling with Sentinel x300 and cleaned, then Sentinel x100
inhibitor added. Refill system , balance and test
£3,600

Now you've got at least one fairly comprehensive quote. Get some more
and eventually you will have the market price for somebody doing the
job for you. The EDF one doesn't seem bad considering the non-combi
scope. Bechmark it against BG and an independent. You may be able to
find cheaper. Only you can decide the value of going with a big name.

( I assume its you that has omitted the TRVs)

Jim A

Yes, sorry.

To suppply and fit Belmont Terrier thermo controlled radiator valves on
all radiators excluding are where new wireless room thermostat is fitted.

Vista

I have just found another quote - £3600 - for basically the same thing
(but to include power-flushing). Interestingly, they include the
"option" of going with a combi boiler - that's only £300 cheaper at £3300

"Vista" wrote in message ...
Vista wrote:
Jim Alexander wrote:
"Vista" wrote in message
...
Boiler is a Ideal W RS 450 (Stellard Group).
Quote (EDF):
de-sludge
remove existing boiler, hot water tank, unnecessary piping, close flue
hole
fit new boiler (Vaillant Ecomax PRO 18E + fan assisted vertical flue
each radiator to have new chromium Belmont Terrier Lockshield valve
new tank 117L pre-lagged copper indirect cylinder
21mm plastic condense pipe
install one Blackerloy anti-corrosive thermo 3kw immersion heater and
power supply
ACL LP 722 digital programmer
supply Grundfos 15-50 variable head pump (to new cylinder)
supply and fit RF2 24 hour wireless room thermostat
cylinder thermostat - to control temp of hot water (in conjunction with
hot water cylinder
Honeywell three port controlling motorised value
13 amp switched fuse spur adjacent to boiler
heating circuit to be reconnected (BSS 2871X copper) - pipework in in
cupboard areas to be lagged in climatube poly lagging
system filling with Sentinel x300 and cleaned, then Sentinel x100
inhibitor added. Refill system , balance and test
£3,600

Now you've got at least one fairly comprehensive quote. Get some more
and eventually you will have the market price for somebody doing the job
for you. The EDF one doesn't seem bad considering the non-combi scope.
Bechmark it against BG and an independent. You may be able to find
cheaper. Only you can decide the value of going with a big name.

( I assume its you that has omitted the TRVs)

Jim A

Yes, sorry.

To suppply and fit Belmont Terrier thermo controlled radiator valves on
all radiators excluding are where new wireless room thermostat is fitted.

Vista

I have just found another quote - £3600 - for basically the same thing
(but to include power-flushing). Interestingly, they include the "option"
of going with a combi boiler - that's only £300 cheaper at £3300

BTW I'm not justifying quotes only reflecting what appears to be market
reality but as a component of house value the cost is neither here nor
there. Question - do the rads appear at the bottom indicating sludge -
which may or may not be cleared by power flushing - never tried so can't
vouch.

You touched on maintenance but it hasn't been discussed much. FWIW I think
there are market realities here too. Factor in £13 or so per month for a
maintenance contract unless you are prepared to trust to "market realities"
when the chips are down. Again your choice. A DIYer might have a
different view.

Your most focussed advice has been is the boiler/system upgrade necessary.
Implicitly your answer has been not quite yet so if its under contract why
bother until forced? OTOH now is a good time of year and you are right,
eventually something will have to be done. And the electrical option is
daft.

Jim A

In article ,
Vista writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
You still didn't reply to my question about where the expense
arises in the current system, maintenance, servicing or fuel.

The boiler is serviced once a year - normal cost for new or old boiler,
I presume.

To be honest, room sealed boilers don't generally need servicing
every year. Open flued boilers most certainly do.

Annual spend on gas about 800 quid
breakdowns - non-yet, but the system is very old and will *need* to be
replaced sometime soon I imagine.

I'm still having trouble working out _why_ you want to do
anything to this system now. The expenditure would appear
to be mainly on fuel. It may well be that for very much
less outlay, you could improve the insulation in the house
and save significantly more than you would save on gas with
a new boiler. You might achieve payback in a year or two,
whereas it's more likely to be 10 years payback on the
quotes you have.

So far nobody has mentioned the electricity only route, and whether that
might be viable.

In fuel terms, it's pretty well always very much more
expensive, which would seem to defeat what you're trying
to do.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:49:33 +0100, Vista wrote:

Hi all.
My parent's house (4 beds) needs a new gas boiler. Quotes for this and
to "modernise" the heating system range from just over 3K-4K - seems a
lot of money.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the way to proceed. Is
this a reasonable price? How do I watch for rip-offs etc? What *needs*
doing from a legal point of view?
My ideas are 1) scrap the gas completely and go all electric (is this
possible with a water-based radiator system? Is it feasible on the cost
front? Perhaps going with economy 7 for hot water (currently have a
lagged tank in the airing cupboard).

Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated.

Vista

Much background info in the BoilerChoice FAQ linked below.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:49:33 +0100, Vista wrote:

Hi all.
My parent's house (4 beds) needs a new gas boiler. Quotes for this and
to "modernise" the heating system range from just over 3K-4K - seems a
lot of money.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the way to proceed. Is
this a reasonable price? How do I watch for rip-offs etc? What *needs*
doing from a legal point of view?
My ideas are 1) scrap the gas completely and go all electric (is this
possible with a water-based radiator system? Is it feasible on the cost
front? Perhaps going with economy 7 for hot water (currently have a
lagged tank in the airing cupboard).

Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated.

Vista

Much background info in the BoilerChoice FAQ linked below.

Ja, thanks, read all that.

|V

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:49:42 +0100, Bob wrote:


"Vista" wrote in message ...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Vista writes:
Hi all.
My parent's house (4 beds) needs a new gas boiler. Quotes for this and
to "modernise" the heating system range from just over 3K-4K - seems a
lot of money.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the way to proceed. Is
this a reasonable price? How do I watch for rip-offs etc? What *needs*
doing from a legal point of view?
My ideas are 1) scrap the gas completely and go all electric (is this
possible with a water-based radiator system? Is it feasible on the cost
front? Perhaps going with economy 7 for hot water (currently have a
lagged tank in the airing cupboard).

Start by giving much more detail of the current system.

Boiler make/model/size/age, condition of pipework, radiators
(do they look fine, or like they're all just about to rust
through?), do they have thermostatic radiator valves, is there
a room stat somewhere?

Also number of rooms, number of baths/showers and usage pattern,
normal number of house occupents. Does the existing system cope
(or did it when it was working properly)?
Why does it need a new boiler now?
Who did you get quotes from, and what do they include?

Boiler make - will look today, at least 20 years old.
Occupants: 2
Showers: 2 a day (one each), baths once a week (each person)
Radiators - mainly good condition 9one small leak on inlet (nothing
serious)
pipework: OK
rooms: 4 beds, kitchen, dinning, living, hall, 2 bathrooms, storeroom.
existing system: working OK, but very old and very expensive to run
Quotes (don't actually have them but will report back)


A new gasboiler isn't that expensive, you can get a combination one for
around £600

One that's worth fitting where you aren't about to sell the property
immediately costs a bit more. Budget £750+ for a good make.

Your parents could get a simple replacement boiler (made by Ideal) for £400

On which planet is that?


I had mine done as I didn't want a combination boiler.
It was put in a cupboard by the bathroom. A gas pipe was fitted, then the
pipes feeding the old back boiler behind the living room fire capped off and
the inlet/outlet connected to the heating system and tank. A new pump and
valve were added. It took about 5 hours to sort out as a new programmer and
thermostat were installed.
A certificate was issued by the Corgi fitter and that was it! The flue just
goes out of the wall and sticks out about 8 inches. The condensation drain
drops in to a nearby hopper for the rainwater.

Properly insulated I hope.

Sounds from the EDF quote as if the OP's parent's CH system needs bringing
up to current energy efficiency standards (Building Regs Part L) with
TRVs, a fully pumped DHW system and time and temperature control of CH and
DHW.


The whole job including the supply and fitting of a condensing boiler should
cost no more than £800 as a maximum.

The boiler plus other parts will cost that alone.

If your parents are getting on a bit tell them to apply for a "warmfront
grant" and they can get the boiler replaced for free (if they meet
certain requirements)

Only if their system has broken down and they're pretty poor.