[The Medway Handyman]

Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great saw, but
the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less that 40mm - and
is big & heavy.

Looking for a 160mm ish saw with a 50mm depth of cut & I notice that many
circ saws no longer have a riving knife fitted.

I've removed the one on my old B&D because its a PITA in many ways, but I
can always re fit it if I need to.

The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding
on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't
they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

[Mr Fuxit]

On 30 Mar, 20:14, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great saw, but
the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less that 40mm - and
is big & heavy.

Looking for a 160mm ish saw with a 50mm depth of cut & I notice that many
circ saws no longer have a riving knife fitted.

I've removed the one on my old B&D because its a PITA in many ways, but I
can always re fit it if I need to.

The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding
on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't
they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them?

--
Dave
The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257


The RK is really only needed when rip sawing natural timber, which
might close onto the blade. When cross cutting natural timber, or
cutting man-made board, there is almost no chance of the blade being
closed upon.

[Lurch]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:14:48 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
mused:

Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great saw, but
the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less that 40mm - and
is big & heavy.

Looking for a 160mm ish saw with a 50mm depth of cut & I notice that many
circ saws no longer have a riving knife fitted.

I've removed the one on my old B&D because its a PITA in many ways, but I
can always re fit it if I need to.

Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a
riving knife AFAICS.

The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding
on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't
they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them?

Took mine off when I bought the saw nearly 10 years ago and have never
touched it since.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

[[email protected]]

On 30 Mar, 23:56, Lurch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:14:48 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
mused:

Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great saw, but
the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less that 40mm - and
is big & heavy.
Looking for a 160mm ish saw with a 50mm depth of cut & I notice that many
circ saws no longer have a riving knife fitted.

I've removed the one on my old B&D because its a PITA in many ways, but I
can always re fit it if I need to.

Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a
riving knife AFAICS.

The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding
on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't
they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them?

Took mine off when I bought the saw nearly 10 years ago and have never
touched it since.

If the saw jams at the front, no harm done, as the wood is pulled
against the baseplate, so nothing goes anywhere. If the saw jams at
the back, the circ saw is thrown upwards at the user. So I kept my
riving knife.


NT

[[email protected]]

On 31 Mar, 08:16, wrote:

If the saw jams at the front, no harm done, as the wood is pulled
against the baseplate, so nothing goes anywhere. If the saw jams at
the back, the circ saw is thrown upwards at the user. So I kept my
riving knife.

NT

they also protect against forceful upthrust caused by pushing the saw
to the side, which is an easy thing to unintentionally do.


NT

[Lurch]

On 31 Mar 2007 00:30:18 -0700, mused:

On 31 Mar, 08:16, wrote:

If the saw jams at the front, no harm done, as the wood is pulled
against the baseplate, so nothing goes anywhere. If the saw jams at
the back, the circ saw is thrown upwards at the user. So I kept my
riving knife.

NT

they also protect against forceful upthrust caused by pushing the saw
to the side, which is an easy thing to unintentionally do.

I just keep a tight grip.

Most of my work is awkward to do with a riving knife in the way, and
the stuff where a riving knife wouldn't be in the way is usually
chipbord of some sort which generally wouldn't close in in the blade
as you cut it.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

[The Medway Handyman]

Lurch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:14:48 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
mused:

Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great
saw, but the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less
that 40mm - and is big & heavy.

Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a
riving knife AFAICS.

I still am, but I can't find out if the fence tucks under the base. And the
Makita doesn't seem to come with a case, which is a PITA and adds to the
cost.

The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up &
binding on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome
this - or don't they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them?

Took mine off when I bought the saw nearly 10 years ago and have never
touched it since..

But I wondered why they now make them without - given all the safety regs
these days?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-03-31 09:29:40 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Lurch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:14:48 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
mused:

Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great
saw, but the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less
that 40mm - and is big & heavy.

Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a
riving knife AFAICS.

I still am, but I can't find out if the fence tucks under the base. And the
Makita doesn't seem to come with a case, which is a PITA and adds to the
cost.

That ought to be a minor consideration though. I know that
manufacturers like to throw in blades, sets of gloves etc. Cases are an
arguable thing, although I tend to agree that for something sold for
trade use, there ought to be one. Even so, it shouldn't be the major
decision making criterion.




The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up &
binding on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome
this - or don't they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them?

Took mine off when I bought the saw nearly 10 years ago and have never
touched it since..

But I wondered why they now make them without - given all the safety regs
these days?

Which manufacturers? I looked at all of the major quality brands and
all seem to have riving knives. I certainly wouldn't buy or use a
portable circular saw without. They certainly can kick back
otherwise and if the timing is wrong and you are too close, the spring
return on the guard may not have completely closed off the blade.....

[Stuart Noble]

wrote:
On 31 Mar, 08:16, wrote:

If the saw jams at the front, no harm done, as the wood is pulled
against the baseplate, so nothing goes anywhere. If the saw jams at
the back, the circ saw is thrown upwards at the user. So I kept my
riving knife.

NT

they also protect against forceful upthrust caused by pushing the saw
to the side, which is an easy thing to unintentionally do.


NT


If you can't concentrate, stay away from power tools altogether

[John Rumm]

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a
riving knife AFAICS.

I still am, but I can't find out if the fence tucks under the base. And the

I am surprised you can't modify your B&D to do this... my one will rip
much closer that 40mm. I will do some photos of it shortly and post
them, you may be able to see a way of copying its layout,

Makita doesn't seem to come with a case, which is a PITA and adds to the
cost.

Some do:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ws&product=976

In fact there are quite a few on this page with cases:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ircular%20Saws

(The Hitachi saws are *really* nice IME as well)

The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up &
binding on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome
this - or don't they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them?
Took mine off when I bought the saw nearly 10 years ago and have never
touched it since..

But I wondered why they now make them without - given all the safety regs
these days?

Probably because for the majority of users it is not usually a risk
factor. Most cuts made are in man made boards. I have never seen
ordinary softwood close up on cutting. Its only when you get into less
common species, or very deep cuts (issue only on bigger saws obviously)
that the potential for this problem increases.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[[email protected]]

On 31 Mar, 11:28, Stuart Noble
wrote:
wrote:
On 31 Mar, 08:16, wrote:

If the saw jams at the front, no harm done, as the wood is pulled
against the baseplate, so nothing goes anywhere. If the saw jams at
the back, the circ saw is thrown upwards at the user. So I kept my
riving knife.

NT

they also protect against forceful upthrust caused by pushing the saw
to the side, which is an easy thing to unintentionally do.

NT

If you can't concentrate, stay away from power tools altogether

lol

[The Medway Handyman]

Andy Hall wrote:

Which manufacturers? I looked at all of the major quality brands
and all seem to have riving knives. I certainly wouldn't buy or use
a portable circular saw without. They certainly can kick back
otherwise and if the timing is wrong and you are too close, the spring
return on the guard may not have completely closed off the blade.....

Tha last one I noticed it on (or not on) was a MacAlister in B&Q but I have
seen a 'major brand' without a RK - might have been Skil?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

[The Medway Handyman]

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

Which manufacturers? I looked at all of the major quality brands
and all seem to have riving knives. I certainly wouldn't buy or use
a portable circular saw without. They certainly can kick back
otherwise and if the timing is wrong and you are too close, the
spring return on the guard may not have completely closed off the
blade.....

Tha last one I noticed it on (or not on) was a MacAlister in B&Q but
I have seen a 'major brand' without a RK - might have been Skil?

It was - Skil Orca
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ircular%20Saws


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

[The Medway Handyman]

The Medway Handyman wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

Which manufacturers? I looked at all of the major quality brands
and all seem to have riving knives. I certainly wouldn't buy or
use a portable circular saw without. They certainly can kick back
otherwise and if the timing is wrong and you are too close, the
spring return on the guard may not have completely closed off the
blade.....

Tha last one I noticed it on (or not on) was a MacAlister in B&Q but
I have seen a 'major brand' without a RK - might have been Skil?

It was - Skil Orca
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ircular%20Saws

....and the Hitachi C7SB2



--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

[The Medway Handyman]

John Rumm wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a
riving knife AFAICS.

I still am, but I can't find out if the fence tucks under the base. And
the

I am surprised you can't modify your B&D to do this... my one will rip
much closer that 40mm. I will do some photos of it shortly and post
them, you may be able to see a way of copying its layout,

Makita doesn't seem to come with a case, which is a PITA and adds to
the cost.

Some do:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ws&product=976

In fact there are quite a few on this page with cases:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ircular%20Saws


Thanks John, but it's not just the fence, the B&D is far too big & heavy.
I'm looking for a 160mm saw with a 50mm depth of cut really.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-03-31 18:41:46 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

John Rumm wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a
riving knife AFAICS.

I still am, but I can't find out if the fence tucks under the base. And
the

I am surprised you can't modify your B&D to do this... my one will rip
much closer that 40mm. I will do some photos of it shortly and post
them, you may be able to see a way of copying its layout,

Makita doesn't seem to come with a case, which is a PITA and adds to
the cost.

Some do:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ws&product=976

In fact there are quite a few on this page with cases:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ircular%20Saws


Thanks John, but it's not just the fence, the B&D is far too big & heavy.
I'm looking for a 160mm saw with a 50mm depth of cut really.

Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a Systainer case.
It's rather nice to use as well.

[The Medway Handyman]

Andy Hall wrote:


Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a
Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well.

Bloody well should be at £250 + !!!

I'd want an operator thrown in at that price!


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-03-31 19:41:56 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Andy Hall wrote:


Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a
Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well.

Bloody well should be at £250 + !!!

Actually the Hitachi one isn't bad either.


I'd want an operator thrown in at that price!

Like this one?

Maureen is a friendly, well-trained, highly-experienced operator based
in Hull. Maureen is regularly coached and tested to make sure she €“ or
he! €“ provides the sort of customer service that makes you happy.

[Ian White]

Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:
On 31 Mar, 08:16, wrote:

If the saw jams at the front, no harm done, as the wood is pulled
against the baseplate, so nothing goes anywhere. If the saw jams at
the back, the circ saw is thrown upwards at the user. So I kept my
riving knife.

NT
they also protect against forceful upthrust caused by pushing the
saw
to the side, which is an easy thing to unintentionally do.
NT


If you can't concentrate, stay away from power tools altogether

50 years ago, it was almost expected that a full-time sawyer would not
finish his career with a full set of fingers; or if he didn't, it was
entirely his own fault.

Such attitudes are not acceptable now; but even back then, the one
safety precaution they *did* insist on was a riving knife.


--
Ian White

[[email protected]]

I've got the Skil Orca, it's a very reasonable saw at it's price
point. As you say, it's designed without a riving knife. The manual
says that when held properly the operator should be able to control
kick backs, should one occur. It comes with a neat, compact case (many
power tool cases are overly large for what they hold IMO), though the
saw fits in a peculiar canted over position that isn't obvious. 90
quid at www.axminster.co.uk

For a little more money, I think CC manufacturers are bundling guide
rail systems - very useful for repetitive panel work.

[The Medway Handyman]

wrote:
I've got the Skil Orca, it's a very reasonable saw at it's price
point. As you say, it's designed without a riving knife. The manual
says that when held properly the operator should be able to control
kick backs, should one occur. It comes with a neat, compact case (many
power tool cases are overly large for what they hold IMO), though the
saw fits in a peculiar canted over position that isn't obvious. 90
quid at www.axminster.co.uk

Thanks, but it's a 190mm machine. I'm looking for a 160mm.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

[[email protected]]

Thanks, but it's a 190mm machine. I'm looking for a 160mm.

Why the smaller blade? I gave my old 140mm skilsaw away recently, as
it was never used now I have the 190mm one.

[The Medway Handyman]

wrote:
Thanks, but it's a 190mm machine. I'm looking for a 160mm.

Why the smaller blade? I gave my old 140mm skilsaw away recently, as
it was never used now I have the 190mm one.

Size & weight really. I don't need the extra depth of cut. My B&D is a
huge beast, cumbersome and the case takes up a load of space in the van.

BTW anyone know anything about the Wolf Sapphire WCS160S ?

http://tinyurl.com/ytbbsk

Seems like someone is just using the brand name - seems too cheap to be any
good.



--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

[[email protected]]

Why the smaller blade? I gave my old 140mm skilsaw away recently, as
it was never used now I have the 190mm one.

Size & weight really. I don't need the extra depth of cut. My B&D is a
huge beast, cumbersome and the case takes up a load of space in the van.

Fair enough. I did consider hanging on to mine for just that reason,
but I found in practice I'd habitually use the larger one. Those
little cordless ones look like they'd be cool for details, but I
understand they suck the batteries very quickly.

[The Medway Handyman]

wrote:
Why the smaller blade? I gave my old 140mm skilsaw away recently, as
it was never used now I have the 190mm one.

Size & weight really. I don't need the extra depth of cut. My B&D
is a huge beast, cumbersome and the case takes up a load of space in
the van.

Fair enough. I did consider hanging on to mine for just that reason,
but I found in practice I'd habitually use the larger one. Those
little cordless ones look like they'd be cool for details, but I
understand they suck the batteries very quickly.

Indeed they do - or some do. I have an SIP 18v jobby with 2 x 1.9a/h
batteries & it is rather disapointing.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

[Stuart Noble]

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a
Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well.

Bloody well should be at £250 + !!!

I'd want an operator thrown in at that price!



There are some tools you should pay good money for but the circ saw
isn't one of them IMO

[[email protected]]

On 1 Apr, 13:28, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
wrote:

but I found in practice I'd habitually use the larger one. Those
little cordless ones look like they'd be cool for details, but I
understand they suck the batteries very quickly.

Indeed they do - or some do. I have an SIP 18v jobby with 2 x 1.9a/h
batteries & it is rather disapointing.

I just assumed all ate batteries, circular sawing is a relatively
power hungry app after all. Or do people have ones that dont?


NT

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-04-01 14:10:00 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a
Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well.

Bloody well should be at £250 + !!!

I'd want an operator thrown in at that price!



There are some tools you should pay good money for but the circ saw
isn't one of them IMO


I disagree. It depends on what work you want to do.

I tend to see circular saws in four categories:

- The really cheap junk around £20-30 that isn't worth buying.

- Reasonable quality light use such as Bosch green and B&D

- Trade/industrial quality - Makita, Bosch blue, De Walt, Metabo, Hitachi

- High end quality. Festool, Mafell, possibly a few others.


In the top two categories one can expect a solid cast rather than
stamped base - yes it does make a difference - , good quality adjusters
that are easy to set and clean, smooth operation.

I've compared the Festool and Mafell with Makita, Metabo and Hitachi
and there is certainly a difference in feel between them.

Certainly if one wanted to regularly use a circular saw as part of a
panel cutting set up with guide rails, Festool and Mafell both have
very good products that inegrate with them well. Had I been doing
this, I certainly would have gone for one of these products.
As it is I have a table saw with slider and outrigger so I can handle
large panels anyway and so I have a Hitachi circular saw to cover
applications needing a portable saw.

This is a similar discussion to jig saws. People with experience only
of entry level ones assume that all are limited, and that is not really
the case.

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-04-01 15:43:15 +0100, said:

On 1 Apr, 13:28, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
wrote:

but I found in practice I'd habitually use the larger one. Those
little cordless ones look like they'd be cool for details, but I
understand they suck the batteries very quickly.

Indeed they do - or some do. I have an SIP 18v jobby with 2 x 1.9a/h
batteries & it is rather disapointing.

I just assumed all ate batteries, circular sawing is a relatively
power hungry app after all. Or do people have ones that dont?


NT

Yes I do. It's a little Makita one that I've had for years. It
has a very thin blade of about 80mm diameter which is quite highly
geared to the motor - doesn't spin very fast. However, for small
trimming jobs, it's pretty good.

Other than that, one needs to go to some of the Bosch and similar 24v
products to get anything useful.

[John Rumm]

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Size & weight really. I don't need the extra depth of cut. My B&D is a
huge beast, cumbersome and the case takes up a load of space in the van.

Many of the small smaller sizes these days are cordless ones. Perhaps
you ought to investigate some of those?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Stuart Noble]

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-04-01 14:10:00 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a
Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well.

Bloody well should be at £250 + !!!

I'd want an operator thrown in at that price!



There are some tools you should pay good money for but the circ saw
isn't one of them IMO


I disagree. It depends on what work you want to do.

I tend to see circular saws in four categories:

- The really cheap junk around £20-30 that isn't worth buying.

- Reasonable quality light use such as Bosch green and B&D

- Trade/industrial quality - Makita, Bosch blue, De Walt, Metabo, Hitachi

- High end quality. Festool, Mafell, possibly a few others.


In the top two categories one can expect a solid cast rather than
stamped base - yes it does make a difference - , good quality adjusters
that are easy to set and clean, smooth operation.

I've compared the Festool and Mafell with Makita, Metabo and Hitachi and
there is certainly a difference in feel between them.

Certainly if one wanted to regularly use a circular saw as part of a
panel cutting set up with guide rails, Festool and Mafell both have very
good products that inegrate with them well. Had I been doing this, I
certainly would have gone for one of these products.
As it is I have a table saw with slider and outrigger so I can handle
large panels anyway and so I have a Hitachi circular saw to cover
applications needing a portable saw.

This is a similar discussion to jig saws. People with experience only
of entry level ones assume that all are limited, and that is not really
the case.

Totally different to a jigsaw where sustained power at low speed is
required. A cheap jigsaw gives an inferior result every time so they
aren't worth buying.
However, any old circular saw will whizz through sheet materials and,
with the right blade, deliver as good a cut as anything else. With the
£30 Power Devil I like to leave half the pencil line (grade 2B) on the
edge of the cut, but I guess I could achieve greater accuracy by paying
a bit more :-)

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-04-01 17:53:00 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Totally different to a jigsaw where sustained power at low speed is
required. A cheap jigsaw gives an inferior result every time so they
aren't worth buying.
However, any old circular saw will whizz through sheet materials and,
with the right blade, deliver as good a cut as anything else. With the
£30 Power Devil I like to leave half the pencil line (grade 2B) on the
edge of the cut, but I guess I could achieve greater accuracy by paying
a bit more :-)

If you were using a marking knife possibly.....