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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

What type of adhesive is "No More Nails"?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 1st 07, 02:03 PM posted to sci.chem,uk.d-i-y,free.uk.diy.home
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Posts: 1
Default What type of adhesive is "No More Nails"?

I am in the UK and would like to ask some questions about glues.

QUESTION ONE
Does anyone know what category or type of adhesive is Unibond's NO MORE
NAILS sold for general purpose home use?
See http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/images/UNINMNC.jpg
Does anyone have an ingredients list for this adhesive?

QUESTION TWO
Is NO MORE NAILS stronger for woodwork jobs than that white or yellow
runny woodworking adhesive which I believe is some sort of PVA adhesive
that dries off to leave a hard resin.

QUESTION THREE
Does NO MORE NAILS form a stronger bond to the materials being glued
than Araldite? Can NO MORE NAILS be heated to a greater temp than
Araldite (which I believe weakens at 70 C)?
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  #2  
Old March 1st 07, 02:30 PM posted to sci.chem,uk.d-i-y,free.uk.diy.home
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Posts: 2
Default What type of adhesive is "No More Nails"?

On Mar 1, 8:03 am, Jimbo wrote:
I am in the UK and would like to ask some questions about glues.

QUESTION ONE
Does anyone know what category or type of adhesive is Unibond's NO MORE
NAILS sold for general purpose home use?
Seehttp://www.dm-tools.co.uk/images/UNINMNC.jpg
Does anyone have an ingredients list for this adhesive?

QUESTION TWO
Is NO MORE NAILS stronger for woodwork jobs than that white or yellow
runny woodworking adhesive which I believe is some sort of PVA adhesive
that dries off to leave a hard resin.

QUESTION THREE
Does NO MORE NAILS form a stronger bond to the materials being glued
than Araldite? Can NO MORE NAILS be heated to a greater temp than
Araldite (which I believe weakens at 70 C)?


Ask the manufacturer for 1) an MSDS 2) technical data comparing NMN's
to PVA woodglue and 3) the upper working temperature for the adhesive.
They will give you far better answers than anything that these forums
will provide.

John
Aspen Research, - www.aspenresearch.com
"Turning Questions into Answers"

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my
employer.

  #3  
Old March 1st 07, 02:40 PM posted to sci.chem,uk.d-i-y,free.uk.diy.home
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Posts: 9,056
Default What type of adhesive is "No More Nails"?

Jimbo wrote:
I am in the UK and would like to ask some questions about glues.

QUESTION ONE
Does anyone know what category or type of adhesive is Unibond's NO MORE
NAILS sold for general purpose home use?
See http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/images/UNINMNC.jpg
Does anyone have an ingredients list for this adhesive?


I think its is an acrylic type glue.

QUESTION TWO
Is NO MORE NAILS stronger for woodwork jobs than that white or yellow
runny woodworking adhesive which I believe is some sort of PVA adhesive
that dries off to leave a hard resin.


its better where there are gaps..bit any CLOSE fitting glue joint is
somewhat stronger than the wood by and large.


QUESTION THREE
Does NO MORE NAILS form a stronger bond to the materials being glued
than Araldite? Can NO MORE NAILS be heated to a greater temp than
Araldite (which I believe weakens at 70 C)?


MM. Araldite will go higher than that if well mixed and heat cured.

With a slow setting epoxy like that, heating the mixture to about 70C
while mixing ensures a very good strength, and heating it to that sort
of temp while it dries seems to make it set harder.

  #4  
Old March 1st 07, 03:10 PM posted to sci.chem,uk.d-i-y,free.uk.diy.home
LSR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 129
Default What type of adhesive is "No More Nails"?

Jimbo wrote:
I am in the UK and would like to ask some questions about glues.

QUESTION ONE
Does anyone know what category or type of adhesive is Unibond's NO
MORE NAILS sold for general purpose home use?
See http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/images/UNINMNC.jpg
Does anyone have an ingredients list for this adhesive?

QUESTION TWO
Is NO MORE NAILS stronger for woodwork jobs than that white or yellow
runny woodworking adhesive which I believe is some sort of PVA
adhesive that dries off to leave a hard resin.

QUESTION THREE
Does NO MORE NAILS form a stronger bond to the materials being glued
than Araldite? Can NO MORE NAILS be heated to a greater temp than
Araldite (which I believe weakens at 70 C)?


Gripfill, No More Nails etc are (apparently) block copolymers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copolymer#Block_Copolymers

I suspect normal woodworking PVA gives a stronger overall bond because it
penetrates the wood grain to a certain extent before polymerising, so the
bond has more "depth". NMN just glues the surfaces.

Polyurethane glue may be even better in a clamped joint as it expands and
gets forced into the grain before curing.
--
LSR


  #5  
Old March 1st 07, 05:54 PM posted to sci.chem,uk.d-i-y,free.uk.diy.home
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Posts: 519
Default What type of adhesive is "No More Nails"?

In uk.d-i-y The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
I am in the UK and would like to ask some questions about glues.

QUESTION ONE
Does anyone know what category or type of adhesive is Unibond's NO MORE
NAILS sold for general purpose home use?
See http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/images/UNINMNC.jpg
Does anyone have an ingredients list for this adhesive?


I think its is an acrylic type glue.

QUESTION TWO
Is NO MORE NAILS stronger for woodwork jobs than that white or yellow
runny woodworking adhesive which I believe is some sort of PVA adhesive
that dries off to leave a hard resin.


its better where there are gaps..bit any CLOSE fitting glue joint is
somewhat stronger than the wood by and large.


QUESTION THREE
Does NO MORE NAILS form a stronger bond to the materials being glued
than Araldite? Can NO MORE NAILS be heated to a greater temp than
Araldite (which I believe weakens at 70 C)?


MM. Araldite will go higher than that if well mixed and heat cured.

With a slow setting epoxy like that, heating the mixture to about 70C
while mixing ensures a very good strength, and heating it to that sort
of temp while it dries seems to make it set harder.


Epoxys have a 'gel' temperature.

When they set firstly, they have a fraction of unreacted liquid, that's
bound in place by the matrix of already set chains.
A small fraction of this will set at room temperature.

When you heat this up to a certain level, the epoxy gets 'rubbery', and
heated a bit more may substantially weaken it.
However, at this time, the ends of the unreacted liquid molecules are
wiggling around due to the heat, and meeting their opposite numbers, and
rapidly setting more completely.
Heating an epoxy much over the temperature it has been set at will
always do this, but as less and less of the liquid remains at high
temperatures, the effect is dramatically less.
  #6  
Old March 2nd 07, 10:45 AM posted to sci.chem,uk.d-i-y,free.uk.diy.home
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Posts: 92
Default What type of adhesive is "No More Nails"?

The Natural Philosopher wrote in
:

Jimbo wrote:
I am in the UK and would like to ask some questions about glues.

QUESTION ONE
Does anyone know what category or type of adhesive is Unibond's
NO MORE NAILS sold for general purpose home use?
See http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/images/UNINMNC.jpg
Does anyone have an ingredients list for this adhesive?


I think its is an acrylic type glue.


The solvent-free flavours of adhesive are acrylate based.

I'm a great fan of Gripfill and it's now many years since I used No
More Nails, so my reply relates to Gripfill, but I expect other
brnads are similar.

The (organic solvent) adhesives are synthetic rubber based, which is
why they dry slightly rubbery are cannot be sanded. I believe the
base is polychloroprene (aka neoprene) using butanone (aka methyl
ethyl ketone, MEK) + xylene as solvent. The product is bulked out by
fillers.

It's the MEK + xylene which gives Gripfill its wondrous smell. I was
using it last night in the hallway - this morning the addictive (?)
smell is still lingering...

There was a recent thread here about what to use to remove such
adhesives - the answer is scrape off the bulk, then clean with MEK or
other ketone (eg acetone). But watch out for nearby plastics, or
painted / varnished surfaces!

But my chemistry (well, chemical engineering) is getting rusty lately
after years of disuse - or should that be (solvent) abuse...

Hope this helps

--

Richard Perkin
To email me, change the AT in the address below
richard.perkinATmyrealbox.com

It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's.
It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News
  #7  
Old March 7th 07, 09:35 PM posted to sci.chem,uk.d-i-y,free.uk.diy.home
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Posts: 15
Default What type of adhesive is "No More Nails"?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Araldite (which I believe weakens at 70 C)?


MM. Araldite will go higher than that if well mixed and heat cured.

With a slow setting epoxy like that, heating the mixture to about 70C
while mixing ensures a very good strength, and heating it to that sort
of temp while it dries seems to make it set harder.


You may be confusing Araldite with Araldite Rapid - 2 very different
animals.
The Rapid is known to soften with heat and stuck items can be easily parted
at 150C. If it cures in 10 mins then it's Rapid, if it takes 3 days it's
the original - and that is a much stronger bond, and doesn't really soften
with heat. The slow set also allows the user plenty of time to get a well
mixed glue. Most stores stock the Rapid, because they know that most people
don't want the fuss of carefully holding the parts together for 3 days.
As an aside the original will set in about 2 mins at 100C - I knew someone
who damanged the brass tap of his 1957 Ford Anglia heater supply - we used
Araldite and a large old pre-decimal (1d) penny to block the hole (with
thick gloves to hold it as it was boiling!). Lasted for years....

--
Ron Jones
Process Safety & Development Specialist
Don't repeat history, unreported chemical lab/plant near misses at
http://www.crhf.org.uk Only two things are certain: The universe and
human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe. ~ Albert
Einstein


  #8  
Old March 8th 07, 12:52 AM posted to sci.chem,uk.d-i-y,free.uk.diy.home
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Posts: 9,056
Default What type of adhesive is "No More Nails"?

Ron Jones wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Araldite (which I believe weakens at 70 C)?

MM. Araldite will go higher than that if well mixed and heat cured.

With a slow setting epoxy like that, heating the mixture to about 70C
while mixing ensures a very good strength, and heating it to that sort
of temp while it dries seems to make it set harder.


You may be confusing Araldite with Araldite Rapid - 2 very different
animals.
The Rapid is known to soften with heat and stuck items can be easily parted
at 150C. If it cures in 10 mins then it's Rapid, if it takes 3 days it's
the original - and that is a much stronger bond, and doesn't really soften
with heat. The slow set also allows the user plenty of time to get a well
mixed glue. Most stores stock the Rapid, because they know that most people
don't want the fuss of carefully holding the parts together for 3 days.
As an aside the original will set in about 2 mins at 100C - I knew someone
who damanged the brass tap of his 1957 Ford Anglia heater supply - we used
Araldite and a large old pre-decimal (1d) penny to block the hole (with
thick gloves to hold it as it was boiling!). Lasted for years....


I did the same years ago to strengthen a wire to connector join..before
the days of heatshrink..just put on araldite and used a hairdryer..it
went all dark brown and clear..then bubbles appeared and I stopped the
hair drier. Set to a amber like consistency.
  #9  
Old March 8th 07, 03:47 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,free.uk.diy.home
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Posts: 7
Default What type of adhesive is "No More Nails"?

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:35:38 -0000, "Ron Jones"
wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Araldite (which I believe weakens at 70 C)?


MM. Araldite will go higher than that if well mixed and heat cured.

With a slow setting epoxy like that, heating the mixture to about 70C
while mixing ensures a very good strength, and heating it to that sort
of temp while it dries seems to make it set harder.


You may be confusing Araldite with Araldite Rapid - 2 very different
animals.
The Rapid is known to soften with heat and stuck items can be easily parted
at 150C. If it cures in 10 mins then it's Rapid, if it takes 3 days it's
the original - and that is a much stronger bond, and doesn't really soften
with heat. The slow set also allows the user plenty of time to get a well
mixed glue. Most stores stock the Rapid, because they know that most people
don't want the fuss of carefully holding the parts together for 3 days.
As an aside the original will set in about 2 mins at 100C - I knew someone
who damanged the brass tap of his 1957 Ford Anglia heater supply - we used
Araldite and a large old pre-decimal (1d) penny to block the hole (with
thick gloves to hold it as it was boiling!). Lasted for years....


I had a cracked aluminium thermostat cover off my car back in the 70s.
Smeared araldite into the crack and left it on the radiator in the
workshop for the morning. Put it back on the car at night and drove
away. Was still on the car when I got rid of it a couple of years
later.
 




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