[J Barron]

We wanted to move a projector & interactive board from one room to
another. The caretakers have said they'll move these so no problems
there. However the new location doesn't have a spur for the projector
coming from the mains. Would it be acceptable to put an extension lead
in trunking coming from the projector back to a normal socket on the
wall? Could the audio/VGA leads be included in this same trunking or
should separate trunking be used for that?

[George]

"J Barron" wrote in message
...
We wanted to move a projector & interactive board from one room to
another. The caretakers have said they'll move these so no problems
there. However the new location doesn't have a spur for the projector
coming from the mains. Would it be acceptable to put an extension lead
in trunking coming from the projector back to a normal socket on the
wall? Could the audio/VGA leads be included in this same trunking or
should separate trunking be used for that?

Hmmm! what sort of caretaker is he? my knowledge of school caretaker is they
must have basic knowledge of woodwork,electrical,heating ect,ect to be
employed as one.

[EricP]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:31:35 +0000, J Barron
wrote:

We wanted to move a projector & interactive board from one room to
another. The caretakers have said they'll move these so no problems
there. However the new location doesn't have a spur for the projector
coming from the mains. Would it be acceptable to put an extension lead
in trunking coming from the projector back to a normal socket on the
wall? Could the audio/VGA leads be included in this same trunking or
should separate trunking be used for that?

If you like working elsewhere.

If not then ring the proper department to arrange for an assessment to
be done and the work carried out and then examined and signed off.

Remember common-sense ceased to be a working factor in schools some
time ago. )

[J Barron]

George wrote:
"J Barron" wrote in message
...
We wanted to move a projector & interactive board from one room to
another. The caretakers have said they'll move these so no problems
there. However the new location doesn't have a spur for the projector
coming from the mains. Would it be acceptable to put an extension lead
in trunking coming from the projector back to a normal socket on the
wall? Could the audio/VGA leads be included in this same trunking or
should separate trunking be used for that?

Hmmm! what sort of caretaker is he? my knowledge of school caretaker is they
must have basic knowledge of woodwork,electrical,heating ect,ect to be
employed as one.

Assuming the caretakers are up to the task..

Is it acceptable to house the cable as described?

[J Barron]

EricP wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:31:35 +0000, J Barron
wrote:

We wanted to move a projector & interactive board from one room to
another. The caretakers have said they'll move these so no problems
there. However the new location doesn't have a spur for the projector
coming from the mains. Would it be acceptable to put an extension lead
in trunking coming from the projector back to a normal socket on the
wall? Could the audio/VGA leads be included in this same trunking or
should separate trunking be used for that?

If you like working elsewhere.

?

If not then ring the proper department to arrange for an assessment to
be done and the work carried out and then examined and signed off.

That was what we were trying to avoid!

Is there a problem with a caretaker carrying out work on-site that
doesn't involve any proper electrical work? Would the extension back to
the socket not suffice?

[EricP]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:09:03 +0000, J Barron
wrote:

EricP wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:31:35 +0000, J Barron
wrote:

We wanted to move a projector & interactive board from one room to
another. The caretakers have said they'll move these so no problems
there. However the new location doesn't have a spur for the projector
coming from the mains. Would it be acceptable to put an extension lead
in trunking coming from the projector back to a normal socket on the
wall? Could the audio/VGA leads be included in this same trunking or
should separate trunking be used for that?

If you like working elsewhere.

?
Well I suppose you could be in a merciful LEA and they substitute
castration for sacking. )


If not then ring the proper department to arrange for an assessment to
be done and the work carried out and then examined and signed off.

That was what we were trying to avoid!

Remember you are in a zero-tolerence zone, particularly if in a
primary. It's all inspection/certificates so blame can be passed on
and on. All hail the rules and avoid being sued at all costs.

Is there a problem with a caretaker carrying out work on-site that
doesn't involve any proper electrical work? Would the extension back to
the socket not suffice?

If the caretaker has the appropriate electrical qualifications and is
approved to do the work.

Depends which LEA you are in. Here trailing leads, are out. Covering
them compounds it because you introduce trip hazards into the
equation. You really have no choice in following the laid down path
and apply for a solution to the problem down the proper channels.

If the bod comes and says "use a plug bar", then you are ok.

[J Barron]

EricP wrote:
If the caretaker has the appropriate electrical qualifications and is
approved to do the work.

Are electrical qualifications necessary to run an extension lead in
trunking back to a socket?

Depends which LEA you are in. Here trailing leads, are out. Covering
them compounds it because you introduce trip hazards into the
equation. You really have no choice in following the laid down path
and apply for a solution to the problem down the proper channels.

I appreciate the dangers with training leads, but they wouldn't be used
in this case. We planned on running a 5m extension from the projector on
the ceiling back to a wall socket (in trunking). Does this break any
regulations?

[Tx2]

In article , J Barron
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...

I appreciate the dangers with training leads, but they wouldn't be used
in this case. We planned on running a 5m extension from the projector on
the ceiling back to a wall socket (in trunking). Does this break any
regulations?

I'm pretty sure this has been done at our college.

Plug into socket on the wall, run cable through trunking to where
projector is, socket on end of cable for projector to plug into.

Job done.

I don't see where there is any H&S risk, but I'm not qualified to tell
you if it's against regulations.

FWIW, I'm not the one who installed it, i've simply observed it.



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[TMC]

"J Barron" wrote in message
...
EricP wrote:
If the caretaker has the appropriate electrical qualifications and is
approved to do the work.

Are electrical qualifications necessary to run an extension lead in
trunking back to a socket?

Depends which LEA you are in. Here trailing leads, are out. Covering
them compounds it because you introduce trip hazards into the
equation. You really have no choice in following the laid down path
and apply for a solution to the problem down the proper channels.

I appreciate the dangers with training leads, but they wouldn't be used in
this case. We planned on running a 5m extension from the projector on the
ceiling back to a wall socket (in trunking). Does this break any
regulations?

Just which bit of 'get the LEA to tell you how the work needs to be done and
by whom' don't you understand?

Put it another way. If a child died as a result of your actions your only
safety net would be 'I followed correct procedure and I have the paperwork
to prove it' Without that where would you be?

It really does not matter what anyone on this newsgroup thinks would or
would not be ok. It is what the current regulations of your LEA say that
count

By the time I left teaching some years ago teaching staff were not even
allowed to wire or rewire a plug on any piece of equipment to be used in the
building (and some were actually teaching pupils how to wire plugs as an
approved part of the curriculum)

Any extension lead used in the building had to have an annual safety check
by an approved company along with every other piece of electrical equipment
in the building.

Tony

[Tx2]

In article , TMC
of , felt we'd be interested in the following...



Any extension lead used in the building had to have an annual safety check
by an approved company along with every other piece of electrical equipment
in the building.

Not entirely accurate.

We (that is our site manager) carries out PAT testing on our campus.
I've even done some myself, and I'm not an approved 'spark' by any
stretch of the imagination.

The college used to have a firm come in and do it, but they chose to buy
the testing kit and do the job themselves.

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[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:31:35 +0000, J Barron wrote:

Could the audio/VGA leads be included in this same trunking or
should separate trunking be used for that?

The mains should be in trunking of it's own, this is standard practice.

The white boards/projectors in our primary school seem to be a mix of
dedicated fixed wiring (mains and video) and cables stuffed in trunking
as you describe. Most of the dedicated stuff is no longer used due to the
numbers of pupils declining and the school combining year groups into
classes, freeing up at least two former classrooms.

Personally I can't see anything wrong with it provided you use a decent
quality, ready made, extension lead (unmodified) of ample rating, it is
after all going to be enclosed not in free air. And fuse it at the
minimum that the projector will allow, even if this means a 13A rated
cable with a 3A fuse.

How your LEA views things is another matter entirely and TBH is the only
thing that counts when push comes to shove.

I don't think our school caretaker does much more than cleaning. He
cerainly doesn't unblock the blocked gullies at the bottom of down spouts
or repair broken guttering. All basic, unskilled, building maintenace.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

[Lurch]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 21:20:46 -0000, Tx2
mused:

In article , TMC
of , felt we'd be interested in the following...



Any extension lead used in the building had to have an annual safety check
by an approved company along with every other piece of electrical equipment
in the building.

Not entirely accurate.

We (that is our site manager) carries out PAT testing on our campus.
I've even done some myself, and I'm not an approved 'spark' by any
stretch of the imagination.

The college used to have a firm come in and do it, but they chose to buy
the testing kit and do the job themselves.

If they're not using trained operatives to do the testing they may as
well save a few more quid and just buy a roll of 'passed' stickers
every 12 Months.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

[Stephen Howard]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:50:56 -0000, "TMC" wrote:


"J Barron" wrote in message
...
EricP wrote:
snip
I appreciate the dangers with training leads, but they wouldn't be used in
this case. We planned on running a 5m extension from the projector on the
ceiling back to a wall socket (in trunking). Does this break any
regulations?

Just which bit of 'get the LEA to tell you how the work needs to be done and
by whom' don't you understand?

Put it another way. If a child died as a result of your actions your only
safety net would be 'I followed correct procedure and I have the paperwork
to prove it' Without that where would you be?

It really does not matter what anyone on this newsgroup thinks would or
would not be ok. It is what the current regulations of your LEA say that
count

As a primary school governor, I'd say that was good advice.

I'm pretty sure there are good reasons to avoid using extension leads
( static or otherwise ) on whiteboard projectors ( extra connections,
oxidisation of terminals, arcing etc.), and with bulbs costing several
hundred quid a pop ( 'scuse pun ) I'd want to see a 'suited and
booted' installation.
I wouldn't be too happy at the prospect of just anyone hefting a
couple of grand's worth of kit about without having the necessary
insurance/qualifications.

It's also sod's law that the *very* nice man from Ofsted will point a
finger up at the projector and say "Have you got the paperwork for
this installation please?".

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

[Tx2]

In article , Lurch
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...


If they're not using trained operatives to do the testing they may as
well save a few more quid and just buy a roll of 'passed' stickers
every 12 Months.

That would probably be illegal.

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[Lurch]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 22:37:46 -0000, Tx2
mused:

In article , Lurch
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...


If they're not using trained operatives to do the testing they may as
well save a few more quid and just buy a roll of 'passed' stickers
every 12 Months.

That would probably be illegal.

Not overly convinced on the legality of just buying a PAT tester to
avoid paying a trained person to do the job.

Can't see a great difference tbh.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

[SteveT]

"J Barron" wrote in message
...
We wanted to move a projector & interactive board from one room to
another. The caretakers have said they'll move these so no problems there.
However the new location doesn't have a spur for the projector coming from
the mains. Would it be acceptable to put an extension lead in trunking
coming from the projector back to a normal socket on the wall? Could the
audio/VGA leads be included in this same trunking or should separate
trunking be used for that

I'd recommend you get an electrician to fit an extra 13A socket on the
ceiling adjacent the pole and plug the projector in directly - cost about
£100. What you do with the VGA and audio cables is up to you. Make sure the
projector is adequately fixed so it doesn't fall on someone's head.

Never ask too many health and safety questions, it's like a game of pedant
top-trumps with who can find the most inventive reason not to do something
simple.

[Tx2]

In article , Lurch
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...


Not overly convinced on the legality of just buying a PAT tester to
avoid paying a trained person to do the job.
Can't see a great difference tbh.

Of course there is a difference.

The PAT tester records the test, and cross references asset and test
numbers; thereafter the result is uploaded onto a computer, and the
record is kept in line with legislation.

Sticking a sticker on without testing is quite clearly falsehood.

I'm confident our site manager is operating within the law.

In fact, legislation seems to say:

"The IEE Code of Practice states, those carrying out the inspection and
testing must be competent to undertake the inspection and, where
appropriate, testing of electrical equipment and appliances having due
regard of their own safety and that of others."

Our site manager is certainly competent, as are members of our IT Team.

If you can offer legislation which states someone must be specifically
trained, certified or whatever is required, i'd be interested to read
it.


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[Clive George]

"Lurch" wrote in message
...

We (that is our site manager) carries out PAT testing on our campus.
I've even done some myself, and I'm not an approved 'spark' by any
stretch of the imagination.

The college used to have a firm come in and do it, but they chose to buy
the testing kit and do the job themselves.

If they're not using trained operatives to do the testing they may as
well save a few more quid and just buy a roll of 'passed' stickers
every 12 Months.

How hard is PAT testing? (serious question)

cheers,
clive

[Tom Woods]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:31:35 +0000, J Barron
wrote:

We wanted to move a projector & interactive board from one room to
another. The caretakers have said they'll move these so no problems
there. However the new location doesn't have a spur for the projector
coming from the mains. Would it be acceptable to put an extension lead
in trunking coming from the projector back to a normal socket on the
wall? Could the audio/VGA leads be included in this same trunking or
should separate trunking be used for that?

I work in lots of schools and see a fair few installations that have
been done like this. I'm not sure it is the best way of doing it but
plenty of people have done it (generally where things have been moved
unofficially by the school staff) and ive not seen anything go wrong
with it yet!.
I've seen everything in the same trunking too and it works fine (it
'works' but may not be sensible!).

My company do board and projector installations. We get a sparky in to
run a proper fused/switched supply up to the roof next to the
projector. It wouldnt cost you much to get this done.

I'm assuming that you also do not have asbestos in the ceilings like
most of the schools round here too!

[Lurch]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:39:12 -0000, "Clive George"
mused:

"Lurch" wrote in message
.. .

We (that is our site manager) carries out PAT testing on our campus.
I've even done some myself, and I'm not an approved 'spark' by any
stretch of the imagination.

The college used to have a firm come in and do it, but they chose to buy
the testing kit and do the job themselves.

If they're not using trained operatives to do the testing they may as
well save a few more quid and just buy a roll of 'passed' stickers
every 12 Months.

How hard is PAT testing? (serious question)

Depends, on the site, the amount of appliances, the type of
appliances, the time of day, the tester being used and anything else
you can think of.

If you mean the actual process of the test then if you were sat at a
desk, with a fully automatic PAT tester, with a nice shiney monitor in
front of you to test then if the tester was already programmed the
actual test itself is easy, plug it in, set the type of apliance,
press test.

Obviously this answer is 1 of thousands, it depends entirely on many
factors, but generally, it's not difficult. Best to get at least some
training on doing the job though as just buying a tester and then
going out and hoping you're doing it right is irresponsible at best,
dangerous at worst.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

[Lurch]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:16:07 -0000, Tx2
mused:

In article , Lurch
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...


Not overly convinced on the legality of just buying a PAT tester to
avoid paying a trained person to do the job.
Can't see a great difference tbh.

Of course there is a difference.

The PAT tester records the test, and cross references asset and test
numbers; thereafter the result is uploaded onto a computer, and the
record is kept in line with legislation.

Sticking a sticker on without testing is quite clearly falsehood.

The test results are only of any use if the operator knows exactly
what they are doing.

I'm confident our site manager is operating within the law.

In fact, legislation seems to say:

"The IEE Code of Practice states, those carrying out the inspection and
testing must be competent to undertake the inspection and, where
appropriate, testing of electrical equipment and appliances having due
regard of their own safety and that of others."

Our site manager is certainly competent, as are members of our IT Team.

By competent, do you mean competent as in 'are trained to operate the
test equipment and have certificates to show this' or competent as in
'they look like they know what they're doing to me'?

If you can offer legislation which states someone must be specifically
trained, certified or whatever is required, i'd be interested to read
it.

I never said they had to be specifically trained, but to just buy a
PAT tester and have anyone test appliances is not what is meant by
competent.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

[Clive George]

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:39:12 -0000, "Clive George"
mused:

"Lurch" wrote in message
. ..

We (that is our site manager) carries out PAT testing on our campus.
I've even done some myself, and I'm not an approved 'spark' by any
stretch of the imagination.

The college used to have a firm come in and do it, but they chose to buy
the testing kit and do the job themselves.

If they're not using trained operatives to do the testing they may as
well save a few more quid and just buy a roll of 'passed' stickers
every 12 Months.

How hard is PAT testing? (serious question)

Depends, on the site, the amount of appliances, the type of
appliances, the time of day, the tester being used and anything else
you can think of.

If you mean the actual process of the test then if you were sat at a
desk, with a fully automatic PAT tester, with a nice shiney monitor in
front of you to test then if the tester was already programmed the
actual test itself is easy, plug it in, set the type of apliance,
press test.

Obviously this answer is 1 of thousands, it depends entirely on many
factors, but generally, it's not difficult. Best to get at least some
training on doing the job though as just buying a tester and then
going out and hoping you're doing it right is irresponsible at best,
dangerous at worst.

Could the content of that training be presented in a non-classroom form, eg
an instruction book? An online course?

cheers,
clive

[Frank Erskine]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:16:07 -0000, Tx2
wrote:

In article , Lurch
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...


Not overly convinced on the legality of just buying a PAT tester to
avoid paying a trained person to do the job.
Can't see a great difference tbh.

Of course there is a difference.

The PAT tester records the test, and cross references asset and test
numbers; thereafter the result is uploaded onto a computer, and the
record is kept in line with legislation.

Sticking a sticker on without testing is quite clearly falsehood.

I'm confident our site manager is operating within the law.

In fact, legislation seems to say:

"The IEE Code of Practice states, those carrying out the inspection and
testing must be competent to undertake the inspection and, where
appropriate, testing of electrical equipment and appliances having due
regard of their own safety and that of others."

Our site manager is certainly competent, as are members of our IT Team.

If you can offer legislation which states someone must be specifically
trained, certified or whatever is required, i'd be interested to read
it.
Using a PAT testing machine is a relatively minor part of the actual
test. Probably much more important is examination of plugs, leads,
fuses and so on.

--
Frank Erskine

[Lurch]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:38:47 -0000, "Clive George"
mused:

Could the content of that training be presented in a non-classroom form, eg
an instruction book? An online course?

I had a look for online courses a while ago but couldn't find any. You
can get DVD's and books on the subject though, the DVD's are often on
eBay for a reasonable sum and Amazon do the books.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

[dennis@home]

"Tx2" wrote in message
T...
In article , J Barron
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...

I appreciate the dangers with training leads, but they wouldn't be used
in this case. We planned on running a 5m extension from the projector on
the ceiling back to a wall socket (in trunking). Does this break any
regulations?

I'm pretty sure this has been done at our college.

Plug into socket on the wall, run cable through trunking to where
projector is, socket on end of cable for projector to plug into.

Job done.

I don't see where there is any H&S risk, but I'm not qualified to tell
you if it's against regulations.

FWIW, I'm not the one who installed it, i've simply observed it.

If they have done a proper H&S assessment then its OK.
Failing to do the assessment is a death sentence.

[black-dog]

Message-ID: from
contained the following:

Using a PAT testing machine is a relatively minor part of the actual
test. Probably much more important is examination of plugs, leads,
fuses and so on.

With most classII equipment, there is not much the machine can do. The test
is mainly physical inspection. When I was doing PAT testing I don't think I
ever failed any class 2 gear other than on inspection.

Indeed. Is there a machine that can test for wrong fuses, frayed
wiring, loose terminal screws, broken cable clamps and odd bits of wire
floating round in the plug top?

--
black-dog

"Always spellcheck your wok to avoid mistakes"

[dennis@home]

"Clive George" wrote in message
...

How hard is PAT testing? (serious question)


Soul destroying boring.
You need a special type of person to ensure its done correctly without short
cuts being taken.
Random checks does help to keep them on their toes.

[Tx2]

In article , Lurch
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...


By competent, do you mean competent as in 'are trained to operate the
test equipment and have certificates to show this' or competent as in
'they look like they know what they're doing to me'?

What do I consider competent? Or are you asking me to define competent?

The former I would suggest is anyone who can demonstrate they have the
skill to carry out the task, i.e. previous experience, training and so
on.

The latter is down to personal interpretation I feel.

If you can offer legislation which states someone must be specifically
trained, certified or whatever is required, i'd be interested to read
it.

I never said they had to be specifically trained

I never said you did. But you suggested paying someone was the preferred
way to go. I disagree.

but to just buy a PAT tester and have anyone test
appliances is not what is meant by competent.

I never said it was.

Out site manager has the competence, experience and training to carry
out the task, or train others to do it.


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[Lurch]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 18:18:27 -0000, Tx2
mused:

In article , Lurch
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...


By competent, do you mean competent as in 'are trained to operate the
test equipment and have certificates to show this' or competent as in
'they look like they know what they're doing to me'?

What do I consider competent? Or are you asking me to define competent?

The former I would suggest is anyone who can demonstrate they have the
skill to carry out the task, i.e. previous experience, training and so
on.

The latter is down to personal interpretation I feel.

Competent by what measure? I get that you think he's competent, but
say someone was killed by a faulty appliance tested by this person,
would your opinion on his level of competence carry any weight in a
court of law?

If you can offer legislation which states someone must be specifically
trained, certified or whatever is required, i'd be interested to read
it.

I never said they had to be specifically trained

I never said you did. But you suggested paying someone was the preferred
way to go. I disagree.

I didn't say paying someone was the best way to do it, just that if
the person being paid is competent (competent as in
qualified\experienced, not qualified as in 'I reckon he knows what
he's doing even though I have received no formal training) then that
would be the preferred route if the other option is to use someone
untrained.

but to just buy a PAT tester and have anyone test
appliances is not what is meant by competent.

I never said it was.

Out site manager has the competence, experience and training to carry
out the task, or train others to do it.

And his competence is gauged by what, your opinion as an untrained (by
any recognised standard relating to PAT testing) employee of the same
company as him?
--
Regards,
Stuart.

[Dave]

SteveT wrote:
"J Barron" wrote in message
...

We wanted to move a projector & interactive board from one room to
another. The caretakers have said they'll move these so no problems there.
However the new location doesn't have a spur for the projector coming from
the mains. Would it be acceptable to put an extension lead in trunking
coming from the projector back to a normal socket on the wall? Could the
audio/VGA leads be included in this same trunking or should separate
trunking be used for that


I'd recommend you get an electrician to fit an extra 13A socket on the
ceiling adjacent the pole and plug the projector in directly - cost about
£100. What you do with the VGA and audio cables is up to you. Make sure the
projector is adequately fixed so it doesn't fall on someone's head.

There was a warning issued in Lancashire about that last year, so I
assume it was issued country wide.

Dave

[Tx2]

In article , Lurch
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...


Competent by what measure? I get that you think he's competent, but
say someone was killed by a faulty appliance tested by this person,
would your opinion on his level of competence carry any weight in a
court of law?

I couldn't be considered as a professional witness, so I doubt my
opinion would count for anything in a Court of Law.

As for measuring competence, see my answer below, which reflects an
answer I gave some while ago about personal interpretation.

Out site manager has the competence, experience and training to carry
out the task, or train others to do it.

And his competence is gauged by what, your opinion as an untrained (by
any recognised standard relating to PAT testing) employee of the same
company as him?

No, my knowledge of the fact the he used to work as an electrician, had
his own electrical installation business with electricians working for
him, is the site Health & Safety officer having attended various courses
concerning such, is the site manager with pretty high standards for work
carried out and so on.

To my 'untrained' eye, that makes him competent enough to do the job,
and train others whom he considers competent enough to also do the job.


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[Lurch]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:02:36 -0000, Tx2
mused:

In article , Lurch
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...


Competent by what measure? I get that you think he's competent, but
say someone was killed by a faulty appliance tested by this person,
would your opinion on his level of competence carry any weight in a
court of law?

I couldn't be considered as a professional witness, so I doubt my
opinion would count for anything in a Court of Law.

So really then, you're decision on his competence shouldn't count for
anything here either.

As for measuring competence, see my answer below, which reflects an
answer I gave some while ago about personal interpretation.

Righto.

Out site manager has the competence, experience and training to carry
out the task, or train others to do it.

And his competence is gauged by what, your opinion as an untrained (by
any recognised standard relating to PAT testing) employee of the same
company as him?

No, my knowledge of the fact the he used to work as an electrician, had
his own electrical installation business with electricians working for
him, is the site Health & Safety officer having attended various courses
concerning such, is the site manager with pretty high standards for work
carried out and so on.

To my 'untrained' eye, that makes him competent enough to do the job,
and train others whom he considers competent enough to also do the job.

Right, so he's probably as competent as many PAT testers out there
then.

This slightly long, off topic, splinter thread just goes to show that
without knowing all the facts then some generalisations come out that,
whilst being correct, may bear not a great deal of relevance to the
topic in hand.

Some valid points raised but I'll leave it there.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

[Tx2]

In article , Lurch
of , felt we'd be interested in the
following...


So really then, you're decision on his competence shouldn't count for
anything here either.

I, as a colleague, observe him carrying out the task and believe he is
competent to do so. That is my opinion based on a variety of factors
centering on common sense, and it very much counts "here" so far as this
thread is concerned at least.

Right, so he's probably as competent as many PAT testers out there
then.

There is no probably about it AFAIC.

This slightly long, off topic, splinter thread just goes to show that
without knowing all the facts then some generalisations come out that,
whilst being correct, may bear not a great deal of relevance to the
topic in hand.

I never generalised. I've explained why our establishment carries out
'on site' testing and who does it. Your generalisations were incorrect
in respect of our site.

You implied incompetence before you knew the facts and expressed
uncertainty over the legality of the procedure.

We didn't just go out and buy a PAT tester and declare ourselves 'fit
for purpose' - although I suspect that does occur - we had a financial,
operational and legal reason to do so.

Some valid points raised but I'll leave it there.

I suppose that's one way to admit you are wrong.

HAND.

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[Robert Moir]

Tx2 wrote:
In article , TMC
of , felt we'd be interested in the following...



Any extension lead used in the building had to have an annual safety
check by an approved company along with every other piece of
electrical equipment in the building.

Not entirely accurate.

We (that is our site manager) carries out PAT testing on our campus.
I've even done some myself, and I'm not an approved 'spark' by any
stretch of the imagination.

I do hope that you've had the appropriate training on PAT testing then!

[Robert Moir]

wrote:
On 16 Feb,
Frank Erskine wrote:

Using a PAT testing machine is a relatively minor part of the actual
test. Probably much more important is examination of plugs, leads,
fuses and so on.

With most classII equipment, there is not much the machine can do.
The test is mainly physical inspection. When I was doing PAT testing
I don't think I ever failed any class 2 gear other than on inspection.

That was certainly how I arrived at most of my "fail" conclusions for kit
back when I did the job.

[Tx2]

In article , Robert Moir
of , felt we'd be interested in the following...


Tx2 wrote:
In article , TMC
of , felt we'd be interested in the following...



Any extension lead used in the building had to have an annual safety
check by an approved company along with every other piece of
electrical equipment in the building.

Not entirely accurate.

We (that is our site manager) carries out PAT testing on our campus.
I've even done some myself, and I'm not an approved 'spark' by any
stretch of the imagination.

I do hope that you've had the appropriate training on PAT testing then!

Define appropriate training? Legislation only requires that the tester
be competent.

Our site manager felt I was competent enough to PAT test some TFT
monitors, showed me how to do it, what to expect, what to look for, and
let me get on with it which I did succesfully.

I was, it seems, appropriately trained.

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[Robert Moir]

Tx2 wrote:

I do hope that you've had the appropriate training on PAT testing
then!

Define appropriate training? Legislation only requires that the tester
be competent.

Indeed.

Our site manager felt I was competent enough to PAT test some TFT
monitors, showed me how to do it, what to expect, what to look for,
and let me get on with it which I did succesfully.

I was, it seems, appropriately trained.

Indeed.

With no comment on your personal skills or any disrespect intended, this
makes a joke of the whole thing doesn't it? My 'training' was a little more
structured than that but at the end of the day this whole exercise is less
to do with real safety and more to do with people in high places ticking
boxes and covering their own asses.

[SteveT]

There was a warning issued in Lancashire about that last year, so I
assume it was issued country wide.

What sort of warning?

[Dave]

SteveT wrote:
There was a warning issued in Lancashire about that last year, so I
assume it was issued country wide.


What sort of warning?

It looks like some installer had fitted the projector into a
plasterboard ceiling and it fell off during a weekend.

The warning came by a fax from (?) county, I think.

All the projectors at the school I worked at conformed to all safety checks.

They are proposing to install another system in a portacabin. I wonder
how they will make that one safe?

Dave

[Dave]

Robert Moir wrote:

Tx2 wrote:

In article , TMC
of , felt we'd be interested in the following...




Any extension lead used in the building had to have an annual safety
check by an approved company along with every other piece of
electrical equipment in the building.

Not entirely accurate.

We (that is our site manager) carries out PAT testing on our campus.
I've even done some myself, and I'm not an approved 'spark' by any
stretch of the imagination.


I do hope that you've had the appropriate training on PAT testing then!

Isn't there a better way of stating Portable Appliance Testing testing?

Dave