[Tim Downie]

I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new fence and
I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged to within a couple
of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at 6'
intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts to give
them the greatest longevity.

Given that they're bound to need replacing at some point, should I be
thinking about making them *easy* to remove (by, i.e. setting them in
gravel) or are there other things I should be considering.

Tim

[Ian Stirling]

Tim Downie wrote:
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new fence and
I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged to within a couple
of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at 6'
intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts to give
them the greatest longevity.

Concrete posts?
Steel 'metpost' type holders?

[Tim Downie]

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Tim Downie wrote:
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new fence and
I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged to within a
couple
of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at 6'
intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts to give
them the greatest longevity.

Concrete posts?

Would be sensible, but ugly. I don't want them.

Steel 'metpost' type holders?

The work of Satan Sorry, but I hate these too.

Tim

[Weatherlawyer]

On Feb 22, 8:28 pm, Ian Stirling wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new fence and
I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged to within a couple
of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at 6'
intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts to give
them the greatest longevity.

Concrete posts?
Steel 'metpost' type holders?

Half a brain?

What was wrong with the hedge?

How much work will the new labour intensive scheme involve over the
next two centuries? How much wildlife will the new labour intensive
scheme support over the next two centuries?

Who is going to get rid of the **** you install when you are poking
out daisies?

[Phil L]

Tim Downie wrote:
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new fence
and I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged to
within a couple of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at 6'
intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts to
give them the greatest longevity.


What kind of longevity are you expecting in waterlogged ground? - I estimate
5 years maximum, and I don't believe the 'tannalised' part makes much
difference - you may get up to 7 or 8 years, provided you soak the last 18
inches in creosote for a few days prior to planting - this isn't as hard or
complicated as it sounds - you need a length of 100mm plastic pipe with a
stop end, a plastic bag that fits inside it and a few gallon of creosote
(creosote substitute now, but it's basically the same stuff).
Fit bag inside pipe, stand in one post, fill to top with creosote and leave
for 48 hours - if the stop end of the pipe is watertight you can do away
with the bag.

Given that they're bound to need replacing at some point, should I be
thinking about making them *easy* to remove (by, i.e. setting them in
gravel) or are there other things I should be considering.


Lean mix concrete might be better, IE 10 gravel, 6 sand, 1 cement - just
something that won't wash away, but will be easily broken up when the need
arises - it will also allow water through, which is important with wood -
it's the cracks which appear in hard concrete around the base of the
shrunken timber which hold water and cause end rot - soft, gravelly concrete
eliminates this but still adds mass to the bottom of the post for stability,
also, mix it completely dry - no water at all.


HTH

[Tim Downie]

Phil L wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new fence
and I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged to
within a couple of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at 6'
intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts to
give them the greatest longevity.


What kind of longevity are you expecting in waterlogged ground? - I
estimate 5 years maximum,

Hmm.., this was my "worse case scenario". I was hoping for nearer 10. I
grant you 3x3 inch posts wouldn't last long but I was hopeful that 4x4 would
do a bit better than that.

and I don't believe the 'tannalised' part
makes much difference - you may get up to 7 or 8 years, provided you
soak the last 18 inches in creosote for a few days prior to planting
- this isn't as hard or complicated as it sounds - you need a length
of 100mm plastic pipe with a stop end, a plastic bag that fits inside
it and a few gallon of creosote (creosote substitute now, but it's
basically the same stuff). Fit bag inside pipe, stand in one post, fill to
top with creosote and
leave for 48 hours - if the stop end of the pipe is watertight you
can do away with the bag.

Given that they're bound to need replacing at some point, should I be
thinking about making them *easy* to remove (by, i.e. setting them in
gravel) or are there other things I should be considering.


Lean mix concrete might be better, IE 10 gravel, 6 sand, 1 cement -
just something that won't wash away, but will be easily broken up
when the need arises - it will also allow water through, which is
important with wood - it's the cracks which appear in hard concrete
around the base of the shrunken timber which hold water and cause end
rot - soft, gravelly concrete eliminates this but still adds mass to
the bottom of the post for stability, also, mix it completely dry -
no water at all.

Thanks. I might well give the creosote a try (and your cement mix)

Tim

[Tim Downie]

Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Feb 22, 8:28 pm, Ian Stirling wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new
fence and I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged
to within a couple of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at
6' intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts
to give them the greatest longevity.

Concrete posts?
Steel 'metpost' type holders?

Half a brain?

Yours or mine?

What was wrong with the hedge?

Lot of things with this particular hedge. Leylandii for a start, too high,
too thick, wrong place.


How much work will the new labour intensive scheme involve over the
next two centuries? How much wildlife will the new labour intensive
scheme support over the next two centuries?

Having hacked through the bl**dy thing I can assure you that there wasn't a
single nest concealed within. It did seem to support the odd spider. I do
plan to plant a new (much smaller hedge) but in the meantime, my neighbour
and I want a new fence to mark the boundary.


Who is going to get rid of the **** you install when you are poking
out daisies?

What have you been smoking? Suggest you lay off the illicit substances
before you next post.

Perhaps you should stick to shouting abuse at spammers (who I'm sure will
listen to
your every word).

Tim

[Tom Woods]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:53:44 -0000, "Tim Downie"
wrote:


"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Tim Downie wrote:
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new fence and
I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged to within a
couple
of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at 6'
intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts to give
them the greatest longevity.

Concrete posts?

Would be sensible, but ugly. I don't want them.

Steel 'metpost' type holders?

The work of Satan Sorry, but I hate these too.

Add some more soil to the ground and thus increase the ground level by
a couple of foot and get above the water? (it just so happens i
have some spare soil...)

[[email protected]]

Tim

At least Phil offers a sensible sollution to your dilema. However dont
worry too much about making up a week concrete. It will resist water
better if made stronger so you will get more time out of your fence.
In addition bring the concrete slighly above ground level in a cone
shape so that water runs off.

An alternative (so long as you or your neighbour isnt growing veg next
to the fence) Is to soak the ends of the posts in used engine oil for
a few days prior to putting them in. This greatly increases their
life, and any garage will give you some for free. You can then take it
to a car breaker, or back to the same garage for them to dispose of.

Good luck

Calum Sabey
NewArk Traditional Kitchens 01556 690544

[Tom Woods]

On 22 Feb 2007 15:02:04 -0800, "
wrote:

Tim

At least Phil offers a sensible sollution to your dilema. However dont
worry too much about making up a week concrete. It will resist water
better if made stronger so you will get more time out of your fence.
In addition bring the concrete slighly above ground level in a cone
shape so that water runs off.

I built a carport recently. I read and was told that if you set a
wooden post in concrete the worst rot will happen in the post just
above the top of the concrete.
Assuming that you do some decent concreting the section of the wood
that will be stuck in the concrete will be quite protected and stay
healthily moist and the worst rot will happen where the concrete ends
and it isnt quite dry or wet. Additionally it rots worse if you do the
concrete so it can puddle round the post.
Looking at my wooden posts I can see where they change from wet to dry
just above my concrete.

I set my posts by digging a hole and putting a 6 inch concrete base in
it (normal wet mix even if it is underwater works fine). Leave that to
set then drop the post onto it. Fill round the post with normal wet
mix concrete and like Calum says bring the concrete up the post to
above water level and slope it so the water runs off.

An alternative (so long as you or your neighbour isnt growing veg next
to the fence) Is to soak the ends of the posts in used engine oil for
a few days prior to putting them in. This greatly increases their
life, and any garage will give you some for free. You can then take it
to a car breaker, or back to the same garage for them to dispose of.

I also did this. Get buckets or whatever you can and leave the post
standing in it for as long as possible. I only had a couple of days
and a big post standing in around 2 inches of engine oil soaked it up
to 4-6 inches.

[Tim Downie]

wrote in message
ups.com...
Tim

At least Phil offers a sensible sollution to your dilema.

Oh I know that. It's just that concrete posts are, IMO, as ugly as sin.
It's a boundary fence between the front gardens of mine and my neighbours
house so appearance matters. Metposts just seem like a way of guaranteeing
that your posts are wobbly (& squint) for the whole of their life-time. I
didn't mean to sound ungrateful for the suggestions.

However dont
worry too much about making up a week concrete. It will resist water
better if made stronger so you will get more time out of your fence.
In addition bring the concrete slighly above ground level in a cone
shape so that water runs off.

An alternative (so long as you or your neighbour isnt growing veg next
to the fence) Is to soak the ends of the posts in used engine oil for
a few days prior to putting them in. This greatly increases their
life, and any garage will give you some for free. You can then take it
to a car breaker, or back to the same garage for them to dispose of.

Good luck

Cheers!

Tim

[Frank Erskine]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:55:07 -0000, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new fence and
I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged to within a couple
of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at 6'
intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts to give
them the greatest longevity.

Given that they're bound to need replacing at some point, should I be
thinking about making them *easy* to remove (by, i.e. setting them in
gravel) or are there other things I should be considering.

The secret is to stop the bottoms of the posts absorbing water. Rather
than just plonking the posts into their holes and pouring concrete
around them, you should place a bit of slate or other impervious
material at the bottom of the hole, so that the post is reasonably
encapsulated from the soil.

--
Frank Erskine

[Great Scot]

(it just so happens i
have some spare soil...)

LOL

[Great Scot]

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new fence and
I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged to within a
couple of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at 6'
intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts to give
them the greatest longevity.

Given that they're bound to need replacing at some point, should I be
thinking about making them *easy* to remove (by, i.e. setting them in
gravel) or are there other things I should be considering.

Tim
I shouldn't worry too much about the existing water table.
Make sure the ends of your posts are V well treated. Dig or bore your
postholes to 2 feet. Set the posts in and fill the void. Tamp firmly. Don't
use gravel or concrete, just soil to fill the void. Gravel will leave the
post wobbly and concrete creates a moisture retaining necklace around the
post.
Decent posts should last about 20 years. Well bedded in soil it only takes a
wiggle back/forth and left/right to uproot them.
Alternatively, and this is a good time of year, try willow cuttings which
could produce a 'living' fence.
Good luck
GS

[Ian Stirling]

Tim Downie wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Tim Downie wrote:
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new fence and
I've found that in some areas, the ground is waterlogged to within a
couple
of inches of the surface.

The plan was for a ranch style fence with 4"x4" tanalised posts at 6'
intervals and I'm wondering what's the best way to set the posts to give
them the greatest longevity.

Concrete posts?

Would be sensible, but ugly. I don't want them.

Steel 'metpost' type holders?

The work of Satan Sorry, but I hate these too.

I'd wonder about a nice big bit of concrete in the ground, to a couple
of inches above the ground, (same section as the post at the top)
with several stainless threaded bars in. Then an actual air gap - 1cm
or so between this and the wood.

Make something decorative around this to cover and still let air flow
through, and still be easy to wash through with the hose every couple of
years to keep the gap.

[luke58]

So what u r saying is put them in a bucket of water ??

Concrete all around and at the bottom, so the posts will be resting in
a pool of water all there life.

Its ground level down by 6 ins that always rots, its the water and
microbes that do all the damage.

So you must get rid of
1 - Wood
2 - Water
3 - Microbes

Why not concrete godfathers and then wooden posts, I have these, and
they have lasted 20 years. The wood is as good as 'new' and no sign of
rotting. They have never been re-treated from new.

Is this water level just the normal winter water table and in summer
it dries out.


The secret is to stop the bottoms of the posts absorbing water. Rather
than just plonking the posts into their holes and pouring concrete
around them, you should place a bit of slate or other impervious
material at the bottom of the hole, so that the post is reasonably
encapsulated from the soil.

[luke58]

Watch out in buying treated timber.

Some places only dip the timber, and are thus cheaper.

As opposed to the vacuum treated timber.

If you can get hold of the posts from a farmers suppliers, these will
have been treated to MAFF standards which will last inexcess of 25
years.

Check out http://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/pa...e/process.aspx


Oh I know that. It's just that concrete posts are, IMO, as ugly as sin.
It's a boundary fence between the front gardens of mine and my neighbours
house so appearance matters. Metposts just seem like a way of guaranteeing
that your posts are wobbly (& squint) for the whole of their life-time. I
didn't mean to sound ungrateful for the suggestions.

[Tony Williams]

In article ,
Tim Downie wrote:
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new
fence and I've found that in some areas, the ground is
waterlogged to within a couple of inches of the surface.

Perhaps worry about the waterlogging first.

No fencepost is going to sit securely in
waterlogged soil.

You say Leylandii in a later post. They would
not have survived sitting with their feet
permanently in water. So where has the water
suddenly come from? Is there a new source of
water, (a leak or something?), or is it bad
drainage, or what?

Maybe think about digging a trench parallel to
the fenceline and draining the water to a sump.

--
Tony Williams.

[Tim Downie]

luke58 wrote:

Why not concrete godfathers and then wooden posts, I have these, and
they have lasted 20 years.

Never heard of them but after a quick google they sound like they could be a
good idea.

Thanks

Tim

[Tim Downie]

Tony Williams wrote:
In article ,
Tim Downie wrote:
I'm in the process of taking down a hedge and putting up a new
fence and I've found that in some areas, the ground is
waterlogged to within a couple of inches of the surface.

Perhaps worry about the waterlogging first.

No fencepost is going to sit securely in
waterlogged soil.

You say Leylandii in a later post. They would
not have survived sitting with their feet
permanently in water. So where has the water
suddenly come from?

The waterlogged part didn't have a hedge, it's at a low point in our
neighbours front garden/drive and there's clay not too far beneath. There
was a wobbly panel fence over the boggy stretch (vaguely secured with
metposts).

Is there a new source of
water, (a leak or something?), or is it bad
drainage, or what?

Nah. It's just Ayrshire. ;-)

Tim

[Stuart Noble]

Phil L wrote:

Lean mix concrete might be better, IE 10 gravel, 6 sand, 1 cement - just
something that won't wash away, but will be easily broken up when the need
arises - it will also allow water through, which is important with wood -
it's the cracks which appear in hard concrete around the base of the
shrunken timber which hold water and cause end rot - soft, gravelly concrete
eliminates this but still adds mass to the bottom of the post for stability,
also, mix it completely dry - no water at all.

Never tried this, but it sounds eminently sensible.

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article , Frank Erskine
writes

Rather
than just plonking the posts into their holes and pouring concrete
around them, you should place a bit of slate or other impervious
material at the bottom of the hole, so that the post is reasonably
encapsulated from the soil.

How about putting the bottom of the post in a plastic bag? Something
like a rubble sack, and taping it up, before pouring the concrete around
it? In addition to engine oil/creosote?

--
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

[Frank Erskine]

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 21:59:11 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:

In article , Frank Erskine
writes

Rather
than just plonking the posts into their holes and pouring concrete
around them, you should place a bit of slate or other impervious
material at the bottom of the hole, so that the post is reasonably
encapsulated from the soil.

How about putting the bottom of the post in a plastic bag? Something
like a rubble sack, and taping it up, before pouring the concrete around
it? In addition to engine oil/creosote?

Plastic's bad news, environmentally :-)

The important thing is to pour the concrete so that it's slightly
above ground level and flaunch it to slope slightly from the post so
that water running down the post will tend to flow away.

Creosote is still a very good idea - soak the posts in it for a couple
of days before use. Preferably real creosote, which is quite
obtainable if you try ;-)

--
Frank Erskine

[Stuart Noble]

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 21:59:11 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:

In article , Frank Erskine
writes

Rather
than just plonking the posts into their holes and pouring concrete
around them, you should place a bit of slate or other impervious
material at the bottom of the hole, so that the post is reasonably
encapsulated from the soil.
How about putting the bottom of the post in a plastic bag? Something
like a rubble sack, and taping it up, before pouring the concrete around
it? In addition to engine oil/creosote?

Plastic's bad news, environmentally :-)

It also makes the wood sweat and so encourages rot