[stevelup]

Hi

I'm in the process of refitting my bathroom and am seeking some tiling
advice.

Three of the walls have new unskimmed plasterboard, and the fourth wall
is made of ply (it conceals pipework and a cistern for the wall hung
WC).

Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces? If so, what preparation
is recommended. Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

Many thanks,

Steve

[Grunff]

stevelup wrote:

Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces?

Yes, but...


If so, what preparation is recommended.

PVA them first.


Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

A nice, sticky wall tile adhesive. Avoid 'adhesive and grout in one'
products. Most of the sheds carry their own brand, I've used several,
and they've been fine.


--
Grunff

[The Natural Philosopher]

stevelup wrote:
Hi

I'm in the process of refitting my bathroom and am seeking some tiling
advice.

Three of the walls have new unskimmed plasterboard, and the fourth wall
is made of ply (it conceals pipework and a cistern for the wall hung
WC).

Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces?

Yes.


If so, what preparation
is recommended.

None at all.

Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

I have found evostik waterproof to be convenient fast grabbing and
pretty easy to use.

Try and make the grout waterproof as well.. I use BAL grout and an
additive..looks like PVA to me - anyway that works well.


Many thanks,

Steve

[The Natural Philosopher]

Grunff wrote:
stevelup wrote:

Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces?

Yes, but...


If so, what preparation is recommended.

PVA them first.


Don;t bother. Waster of time. Makes the adhesive take longer to set as well.


Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

A nice, sticky wall tile adhesive. Avoid 'adhesive and grout in one'
products. Most of the sheds carry their own brand, I've used several,
and they've been fine.

[Grunff]

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Grunff wrote:
PVA them first.


Don;t bother. Waster of time. Makes the adhesive take longer to set as
well.

Well, although I can't say I've tried with and without, my reason for
always PVAing is to provide a dust-free surface. Both ply and PB tend to
be quite dusty, especially if you've been plastering/filling in the
room. A coat of PVA provides a sound, dust-free surface to tile onto.


--
Grunff

[Stuart Noble]

Grunff wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Grunff wrote:
PVA them first.


Don;t bother. Waster of time. Makes the adhesive take longer to set as
well.

Well, although I can't say I've tried with and without, my reason for
always PVAing is to provide a dust-free surface. Both ply and PB tend to
be quite dusty, especially if you've been plastering/filling in the
room. A coat of PVA provides a sound, dust-free surface to tile onto.



Yeah but the adhesive is designed to cope with bad surfaces

[Phil L]

stevelup wrote:
Hi

I'm in the process of refitting my bathroom and am seeking some tiling
advice.

Three of the walls have new unskimmed plasterboard, and the fourth
wall is made of ply (it conceals pipework and a cistern for the wall
hung WC).

On the PB walls, just tile over them, PB is the best surface for tiling
onto...WRT you plywood, if it were mine, I would screw pb to this also,
although many people just tile directly onto wood, I find it can
shrink/expand, ever so slightly over the years and the hardened adhesive
does not, meaning that the tiles and adhesive are not bonded to the
timber...the only time I have ever found tiles actually stuck to timber is
when silicone has been used as adhesive, for small boxed in pieces here and
there, obvously not full walls.


Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces? If so, what preparation
is recommended. Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

Any, they're virtually all the same

[stevelup]

Thanks everyone for your input.

Cheers,

Steve

[The Natural Philosopher]

Phil L wrote:
stevelup wrote:
Hi

I'm in the process of refitting my bathroom and am seeking some tiling
advice.

Three of the walls have new unskimmed plasterboard, and the fourth
wall is made of ply (it conceals pipework and a cistern for the wall
hung WC).

On the PB walls, just tile over them, PB is the best surface for tiling
onto...WRT you plywood, if it were mine, I would screw pb to this also,
although many people just tile directly onto wood, I find it can
shrink/expand, ever so slightly over the years and the hardened adhesive
does not, meaning that the tiles and adhesive are not bonded to the
timber...the only time I have ever found tiles actually stuck to timber is
when silicone has been used as adhesive, for small boxed in pieces here and
there, obvously not full walls.


A lot depends on the adhesive..the Evostik I mentioned is slightly
flexible when set..you can also get floor tile cement that is flexible
to a small degree.

Unless your house is subject to wild variations in humidity, these
=should be enough to cope with any slight movements.


Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces? If so, what preparation
is recommended. Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

Any, they're virtually all the same

[[email protected]]

stevelup wrote:

Hi

I'm in the process of refitting my bathroom and am seeking some tiling
advice.

Three of the walls have new unskimmed plasterboard, and the fourth wall
is made of ply (it conceals pipework and a cistern for the wall hung
WC).

Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces? If so, what preparation
is recommended. Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

Many thanks,

Steve

You can tile direct if you dont mind it all falling apart after 15
years, and having to redo it. If you want it to last better one thing
you need is a waterproof membrane, as tiles really cant be counted on
to be waterproof, and both ply and PB are vulnerable to water. The
othing thing is the right adhesive. The BAL site has guides on these
things.


NT

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-01-03 14:40:50 +0000, Grunff said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Grunff wrote:
PVA them first.


Don;t bother. Waster of time. Makes the adhesive take longer to set as well.

Well, although I can't say I've tried with and without, my reason for
always PVAing is to provide a dust-free surface. Both ply and PB tend
to be quite dusty, especially if you've been plastering/filling in the
room. A coat of PVA provides a sound, dust-free surface to tile onto.

I was curious about this one, so I contacted the technical departments
of three leading adhesives companies - BAL, Dunlop and Ardex.

One said yes and the second said no and the third said that it didn't
matter. I haven't got my notes with me and can't remember who said
which. Either way, I'm no further forward.

Then I discovered that they are all owned by the same company.

[Grunff]

Andy Hall wrote:

I was curious about this one, so I contacted the technical departments
of three leading adhesives companies - BAL, Dunlop and Ardex.

You can always count on Andy to do his research :-)


One said yes and the second said no and the third said that it didn't
matter. I haven't got my notes with me and can't remember who said
which. Either way, I'm no further forward.

Then I discovered that they are all owned by the same company.

Lol.


--
Grunff

[Stuart Noble]

wrote:
stevelup wrote:

Hi

I'm in the process of refitting my bathroom and am seeking some tiling
advice.

Three of the walls have new unskimmed plasterboard, and the fourth wall
is made of ply (it conceals pipework and a cistern for the wall hung
WC).

Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces? If so, what preparation
is recommended. Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

Many thanks,

Steve

You can tile direct if you dont mind it all falling apart after 15
years, and having to redo it. If you want it to last better one thing
you need is a waterproof membrane, as tiles really cant be counted on
to be waterproof, and both ply and PB are vulnerable to water. The
othing thing is the right adhesive. The BAL site has guides on these
things.


NT


Tiles not waterproof?
And how does this membrane idea work then? How is it fixed to the wall,
and how are the tiles stuck to the membrane? Easier to use aquapanel I
would have thought.

[Stuart Noble]

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-01-03 14:40:50 +0000, Grunff said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Grunff wrote:
PVA them first.


Don;t bother. Waster of time. Makes the adhesive take longer to set
as well.

Well, although I can't say I've tried with and without, my reason for
always PVAing is to provide a dust-free surface. Both ply and PB tend
to be quite dusty, especially if you've been plastering/filling in the
room. A coat of PVA provides a sound, dust-free surface to tile onto.

I was curious about this one, so I contacted the technical departments
of three leading adhesives companies - BAL, Dunlop and Ardex.

I can't believe you take any notice of what manufacturers say. It either
works or it doesn't and, in this case, you can tell when you slap the
first tile on. If it needs sealing, then seal it. I think perhaps you're
looking for certainties in situations where the conditions of use are
unknown.

One said yes and the second said no and the third said that it didn't
matter. I haven't got my notes with me and can't remember who said
which. Either way, I'm no further forward.

Then I discovered that they are all owned by the same company.

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-01-04 14:55:48 +0000, Stuart Noble said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-01-03 14:40:50 +0000, Grunff said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Grunff wrote:
PVA them first.


Don;t bother. Waster of time. Makes the adhesive take longer to set as well.

Well, although I can't say I've tried with and without, my reason for
always PVAing is to provide a dust-free surface. Both ply and PB tend
to be quite dusty, especially if you've been plastering/filling in the
room. A coat of PVA provides a sound, dust-free surface to tile onto.

I was curious about this one, so I contacted the technical departments
of three leading adhesives companies - BAL, Dunlop and Ardex.

I can't believe you take any notice of what manufacturers say. It
either works or it doesn't and, in this case, you can tell when you
slap the first tile on. If it needs sealing, then seal it. I think
perhaps you're looking for certainties in situations where the
conditions of use are unknown.

Well.... generally I find that following the manufacturer's
recommendations on the use of a product is a Good Thing. It
avoids embarassments like the Legendary Hacksaw Incident.

In the partcular case in point, I don't agree with you that one would
find out after the first tile. It's entirely possible that it would
appear to stick OK at first and then at some point down the road,
adhesion would turn out to be
poor and the tiles would begin to fall off. That would be something
of a waste of time an materials since one would then need to remove all
of the tiles, carefully clean them off, rectify the problem and stick
them back.

If the problem was that the substrate had not been sealed and should
have been then it is not quite so bad, but if one had sealed it and
shouldn't have done, then the thought of replacing the substrate as
well is not appealing at all.

In comparison, a few phone calls is hardly a large investment.

Many years ago, for the purposes of going to customers in remote
places, attending trade shows as an exhibitor or whatever, someone
taught me the principle of the 6Ps. In layman's terms this is
Proper Preparation Prevents **** Poor Performance.

This would appear to be a classic opportunity to apply that principle.

One manufacturer indicated that the substrate should be dusted and then
wiped with a damp cloth and allowed to dry because their adhesive works
better if its liquid content can soak into the surface - PVA reduced
that, they said.

Another said that PVA was better because it sealed the surface, cut
down the dust and prevented the liquid content of the adhesive soaking
away quickly into the substrate.

Perhaps the products are different. Probably I'll use a very weak
PVA solution and achieve the apparent benefits without the risks?

[sm_jamieson]

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2007-01-04 14:55:48 +0000, Stuart Noble said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-01-03 14:40:50 +0000, Grunff said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Grunff wrote:
PVA them first.


Don;t bother. Waster of time. Makes the adhesive take longer to set as well.

Well, although I can't say I've tried with and without, my reason for
always PVAing is to provide a dust-free surface. Both ply and PB tend
to be quite dusty, especially if you've been plastering/filling in the
room. A coat of PVA provides a sound, dust-free surface to tile onto.

I was curious about this one, so I contacted the technical departments
of three leading adhesives companies - BAL, Dunlop and Ardex.

I can't believe you take any notice of what manufacturers say. It
either works or it doesn't and, in this case, you can tell when you
slap the first tile on. If it needs sealing, then seal it. I think
perhaps you're looking for certainties in situations where the
conditions of use are unknown.

Well.... generally I find that following the manufacturer's
recommendations on the use of a product is a Good Thing. It
avoids embarassments like the Legendary Hacksaw Incident.

In the partcular case in point, I don't agree with you that one would
find out after the first tile. It's entirely possible that it would
appear to stick OK at first and then at some point down the road,
adhesion would turn out to be
poor and the tiles would begin to fall off. That would be something
of a waste of time an materials since one would then need to remove all
of the tiles, carefully clean them off, rectify the problem and stick
them back.

If the problem was that the substrate had not been sealed and should
have been then it is not quite so bad, but if one had sealed it and
shouldn't have done, then the thought of replacing the substrate as
well is not appealing at all.

In comparison, a few phone calls is hardly a large investment.

Many years ago, for the purposes of going to customers in remote
places, attending trade shows as an exhibitor or whatever, someone
taught me the principle of the 6Ps. In layman's terms this is
Proper Preparation Prevents **** Poor Performance.

This would appear to be a classic opportunity to apply that principle.

One manufacturer indicated that the substrate should be dusted and then
wiped with a damp cloth and allowed to dry because their adhesive works
better if its liquid content can soak into the surface - PVA reduced
that, they said.

Non-cement-based, cures by drying out.


Another said that PVA was better because it sealed the surface, cut
down the dust and prevented the liquid content of the adhesive soaking
away quickly into the substrate.

Cement-based, water needed as part of the cure, so stop it soaking in.


Perhaps the products are different. Probably I'll use a very weak
PVA solution and achieve the apparent benefits without the risks?

The BAL adhesive I used specified BAL primer (it would !). I may just
have used PVA, but I had spare primer from the the BAL WP1
waterproofing so used it anyway. I didn't smell like PVA (had an
ammonia smell) - the BAL stuff is all polyester-based I believe.
Cheers,
Simon.

[Stuart Noble]

Andy Hall wrote:

In the partcular case in point, I don't agree with you that one would
find out after the first tile. It's entirely possible that it would
appear to stick OK at first and then at some point down the road,
adhesion would turn out to be
poor and the tiles would begin to fall off. That would be something
of a waste of time an materials since one would then need to remove all
of the tiles, carefully clean them off, rectify the problem and stick
them back.

A tile should be difficult to pull right off a after a few minutes.
Slides a little but will hang on to even an overhead surface quite
happily without support. I've never known that sort of bond to get worse
as it dries but, if you don't have it to start with, you might consider
sealing the plaster (or using more adhesive).

If the problem was that the substrate had not been sealed and should
have been then it is not quite so bad, but if one had sealed it and
shouldn't have done, then the thought of replacing the substrate as well
is not appealing at all.

In comparison, a few phone calls is hardly a large investment.

Fine if anyone knows what they're talking about, but these technical
staff are not ex-tilers or chemists. They're just reading from a script
and telling you their name's Darren and to have a nice day.


Many years ago, for the purposes of going to customers in remote places,
attending trade shows as an exhibitor or whatever, someone taught me the
principle of the 6Ps. In layman's terms this is Proper Preparation
Prevents **** Poor Performance.

This would appear to be a classic opportunity to apply that principle.

Indeed. Prepare your surface accordingly, but someone at the other end
of the phone has no idea what *you* mean by "dusty" or "porous".

One manufacturer indicated that the substrate should be dusted and then
wiped with a damp cloth and allowed to dry because their adhesive works
better if its liquid content can soak into the surface - PVA reduced
that, they said.

But all these adhesives contain pva, or very similar resins, and the net
result is likely to be the same

Another said that PVA was better because it sealed the surface, cut down
the dust and prevented the liquid content of the adhesive soaking away
quickly into the substrate.

Different call centre I expect

Perhaps the products are different. Probably I'll use a very weak PVA
solution and achieve the apparent benefits without the risks?

Unlikely to do any harm I suppose.

[The Natural Philosopher]

wrote:
stevelup wrote:

Hi

I'm in the process of refitting my bathroom and am seeking some tiling
advice.

Three of the walls have new unskimmed plasterboard, and the fourth wall
is made of ply (it conceals pipework and a cistern for the wall hung
WC).

Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces? If so, what preparation
is recommended. Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

Many thanks,

Steve

You can tile direct if you dont mind it all falling apart after 15
years, and having to redo it.

If its going to fail, it will be in the first year.

Plasterboard will die at teh first whiff of damp, and PVA won't stop it
either.

Likewise a soaking wet bit of ply wont last long, PVA or not.

Or do you see boat builders covering ply hulls in PVA to waterproof
them? No. I think not.

PVA is not waterpoof in any sense of the word. Its not even water
resistant. It WILL stop water soaking into to stuff like screed, because
it's already there instead. It WILL go white soft and scummy when it
gets wet, and fall off a surface.


If you want it to last better one thing
you need is a waterproof membrane, as tiles really cant be counted on
to be waterproof,

That's why they are used in bathrooms, swimming pools, and on house
rooves of course. To let the water pass freely. That's why we make
basins out of glazed china, like wot tiles are made of, to let the water
soak out. Thats why toilets, also made of glazedse porcelain, leak and
dribble everywhere.


Sometimes you are a pillock.

Tiles are 100% waterproof. The only think you need to worry about is
grout, which is why you need to use a setting type grout that won't
degraded under water, and fill its pores with your blasted PVA, so
although the PVA softens when wet, it won't let water migrate through

Tiles can be couunted on to be waterproof. Your tiling apparently,
cannot. That is YOUR problem however.

and both ply and PB are vulnerable to water. The
othing thing is the right adhesive. The BAL site has guides on these
things.

Of course they are vulnerable. Guess why we put TILES ON THEM?



NT

[The Natural Philosopher]

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-01-04 14:55:48 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-01-03 14:40:50 +0000, Grunff said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Grunff wrote:
PVA them first.


Don;t bother. Waster of time. Makes the adhesive take longer to set
as well.

Well, although I can't say I've tried with and without, my reason
for always PVAing is to provide a dust-free surface. Both ply and PB
tend to be quite dusty, especially if you've been plastering/filling
in the room. A coat of PVA provides a sound, dust-free surface to
tile onto.

I was curious about this one, so I contacted the technical
departments of three leading adhesives companies - BAL, Dunlop and
Ardex.

I can't believe you take any notice of what manufacturers say. It
either works or it doesn't and, in this case, you can tell when you
slap the first tile on. If it needs sealing, then seal it. I think
perhaps you're looking for certainties in situations where the
conditions of use are unknown.

Well.... generally I find that following the manufacturer's
recommendations on the use of a product is a Good Thing. It avoids
embarassments like the Legendary Hacksaw Incident.

In the partcular case in point, I don't agree with you that one would
find out after the first tile. It's entirely possible that it would
appear to stick OK at first and then at some point down the road,
adhesion would turn out to be
poor and the tiles would begin to fall off. That would be something
of a waste of time an materials since one would then need to remove all
of the tiles, carefully clean them off, rectify the problem and stick
them back.

If the problem was that the substrate had not been sealed and should
have been then it is not quite so bad, but if one had sealed it and
shouldn't have done, then the thought of replacing the substrate as well
is not appealing at all.

In comparison, a few phone calls is hardly a large investment.

Many years ago, for the purposes of going to customers in remote places,
attending trade shows as an exhibitor or whatever, someone taught me the
principle of the 6Ps. In layman's terms this is Proper Preparation
Prevents **** Poor Performance.

This would appear to be a classic opportunity to apply that principle.

One manufacturer indicated that the substrate should be dusted and then
wiped with a damp cloth and allowed to dry because their adhesive works
better if its liquid content can soak into the surface - PVA reduced
that, they said.

Another said that PVA was better because it sealed the surface, cut down
the dust and prevented the liquid content of the adhesive soaking away
quickly into the substrate.

Perhaps the products are different. Probably I'll use a very weak PVA
solution and achieve the apparent benefits without the risks?



I think they definitely are.

Ive tiled 4 bathrooms and 2 kitchens and about 60 meters of slate floor
in this house. More in previous ones.

The typical crap wall tile adhesives that also grout, seem to be a sort
of polyfilla. They grab fast on unsealed walls, but are pretty weak, and
water does seem to soak into the grout, and I am not sure it sets
anyway. Just dries.

For wall tile use I now use evostik waterproof. This seems to also be a
drying rather than curing glue, but its flexible, fairly fast grabbing
and seems highly water resistant. Its sort of feels like no more nails
actually. Then BAL grout with a little PVA in critical areas IS a
setting type product. and is my choice for grout. When I have used the
evostik over non porous surfaces its taken an age to dry and set -
several days.

Finally I use ARDEX floor tile cement - Ive used two - a rapid set
straight and a flexible slow set. I had trouble with dust and a little
trouble where I didn't seal the screed properly..it sucked the wet out
and the setting was weak. Ripped up the offending slate and replaced it.

So the PVA before tiling is all about dust and/or not sucking up water
out of compounds that don't DRY, but SET. In my case Ardex only.

It does **** all to waterproof anything except a mortar mix. Tiles are
1000 times more waterproof, its only in the grout where it has any
possible uses in that area.

[The Natural Philosopher]

sm_jamieson wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

On 2007-01-04 14:55:48 +0000, Stuart Noble said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-01-03 14:40:50 +0000, Grunff said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Grunff wrote:
PVA them first.

Don;t bother. Waster of time. Makes the adhesive take longer to set as well.
Well, although I can't say I've tried with and without, my reason for
always PVAing is to provide a dust-free surface. Both ply and PB tend
to be quite dusty, especially if you've been plastering/filling in the
room. A coat of PVA provides a sound, dust-free surface to tile onto.
I was curious about this one, so I contacted the technical departments
of three leading adhesives companies - BAL, Dunlop and Ardex.
I can't believe you take any notice of what manufacturers say. It
either works or it doesn't and, in this case, you can tell when you
slap the first tile on. If it needs sealing, then seal it. I think
perhaps you're looking for certainties in situations where the
conditions of use are unknown.
Well.... generally I find that following the manufacturer's
recommendations on the use of a product is a Good Thing. It
avoids embarassments like the Legendary Hacksaw Incident.

In the partcular case in point, I don't agree with you that one would
find out after the first tile. It's entirely possible that it would
appear to stick OK at first and then at some point down the road,
adhesion would turn out to be
poor and the tiles would begin to fall off. That would be something
of a waste of time an materials since one would then need to remove all
of the tiles, carefully clean them off, rectify the problem and stick
them back.

If the problem was that the substrate had not been sealed and should
have been then it is not quite so bad, but if one had sealed it and
shouldn't have done, then the thought of replacing the substrate as
well is not appealing at all.

In comparison, a few phone calls is hardly a large investment.

Many years ago, for the purposes of going to customers in remote
places, attending trade shows as an exhibitor or whatever, someone
taught me the principle of the 6Ps. In layman's terms this is
Proper Preparation Prevents **** Poor Performance.

This would appear to be a classic opportunity to apply that principle.

One manufacturer indicated that the substrate should be dusted and then
wiped with a damp cloth and allowed to dry because their adhesive works
better if its liquid content can soak into the surface - PVA reduced
that, they said.

Non-cement-based, cures by drying out.

Another said that PVA was better because it sealed the surface, cut
down the dust and prevented the liquid content of the adhesive soaking
away quickly into the substrate.

Cement-based, water needed as part of the cure, so stop it soaking in.

Perhaps the products are different. Probably I'll use a very weak
PVA solution and achieve the apparent benefits without the risks?

The BAL adhesive I used specified BAL primer (it would !). I may just
have used PVA, but I had spare primer from the the BAL WP1
waterproofing so used it anyway. I didn't smell like PVA (had an
ammonia smell) - the BAL stuff is all polyester-based I believe.
Cheers,
Simon.

You bear out my experience exactly.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:
stevelup wrote:

Hi

I'm in the process of refitting my bathroom and am seeking some tiling
advice.

Three of the walls have new unskimmed plasterboard, and the fourth wall
is made of ply (it conceals pipework and a cistern for the wall hung
WC).

Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces? If so, what preparation
is recommended. Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

Many thanks,

Steve

You can tile direct if you dont mind it all falling apart after 15
years, and having to redo it. If you want it to last better one thing
you need is a waterproof membrane, as tiles really cant be counted on
to be waterproof, and both ply and PB are vulnerable to water. The
othing thing is the right adhesive. The BAL site has guides on these
things.


NT


Tiles not waterproof?
And how does this membrane idea work then? How is it fixed to the wall,
and how are the tiles stuck to the membrane? Easier to use aquapanel I
would have thought.

Meow is nearly as bad as drivel sometimes. Ignore him.

[Andy Hall]

On 2007-01-05 13:16:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:

I think they definitely are.

Ive tiled 4 bathrooms and 2 kitchens and about 60 meters of slate floor
in this house. More in previous ones.

The typical crap wall tile adhesives that also grout, seem to be a sort
of polyfilla. They grab fast on unsealed walls, but are pretty weak,
and water does seem to soak into the grout, and I am not sure it sets
anyway. Just dries.

For wall tile use I now use evostik waterproof. This seems to also be a
drying rather than curing glue, but its flexible, fairly fast grabbing
and seems highly water resistant. Its sort of feels like no more nails
actually. Then BAL grout with a little PVA in critical areas IS a
setting type product. and is my choice for grout. When I have used the
evostik over non porous surfaces its taken an age to dry and set -
several days.

Finally I use ARDEX floor tile cement - Ive used two - a rapid set
straight and a flexible slow set. I had trouble with dust and a little
trouble where I didn't seal the screed properly..it sucked the wet out
and the setting was weak. Ripped up the offending slate and replaced it.

So the PVA before tiling is all about dust and/or not sucking up water
out of compounds that don't DRY, but SET. In my case Ardex only.

It does **** all to waterproof anything except a mortar mix. Tiles are
1000 times more waterproof, its only in the grout where it has any
possible uses in that area.

Thanks for that.

I certainly felt after reading the information and talking to the
technical department of Ardex that the quality of info provided was the
best of the three. I'll probably select their products for that
reason alone.

[Stuart Noble]

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:
stevelup wrote:

Hi

I'm in the process of refitting my bathroom and am seeking some tiling
advice.

Three of the walls have new unskimmed plasterboard, and the fourth wall
is made of ply (it conceals pipework and a cistern for the wall hung
WC).

Is it OK to tile directly onto these surfaces? If so, what preparation
is recommended. Finally, could someone suggest the best tile adhesive
to use?

Many thanks,

Steve

You can tile direct if you dont mind it all falling apart after 15
years, and having to redo it. If you want it to last better one thing
you need is a waterproof membrane, as tiles really cant be counted on
to be waterproof, and both ply and PB are vulnerable to water. The
othing thing is the right adhesive. The BAL site has guides on these
things.


NT


Tiles not waterproof?
And how does this membrane idea work then? How is it fixed to the
wall, and how are the tiles stuck to the membrane? Easier to use
aquapanel I would have thought.

Meow is nearly as bad as drivel sometimes. Ignore him.


Unlike Drivel, you only have to question him and he goes away.
Back to PP no doubt to hone his damp FAQ. Even there people will just
not keep quiet while he delivers his sermon