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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Pilot light gas usage



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 6th 06, 09:55 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 2,231
Default Pilot light gas usage

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 09:18:40 -0800, John Laird wrote:

Frank Lee Speke-King wrote:
wrote:

I've worked out that the pilot light on my old Vaillant combi boiler
uses the equivalent of 60UKP of gas per year, does this sound right?


Yep. Taking meter readings (mine's a cubic metres one and reads to the
third decimal place) my ancient Glowworm boiler uses 0.44 cu.m per day
just on the pilot light.


That's nearly 5kWh per day, which suggest the pilot flame is producing
200W. I suppose it will be helping to keep the (enormous) heat
exchanger warm for the next time you need hot water or heating.

Some interesting stats at:
http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/he...97/970103.html


I have done some of my own tests and calcs and would say that 50-200W give
or take is plausible. This is 2 magnitudes smaller than when in operation,
but is 24/7. Hence the several % effect on the overall annual energy usage.

I don't agree (I wouldn't would I?) with those who _automatically_ state
that a modern boiler is less reliable than a traditional type.

A _quality_ modern boiler might also have a long life. Electronics are not
unreliable per se. The materials used are potentially better than those
used traditionally.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
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  #12  
Old December 6th 06, 10:58 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 19,019
Default Pilot light gas usage

In article . com,
wrote:
I've worked out that the pilot light on my old Vaillant combi boiler
uses the equivalent of 60UKP of gas per year, does this sound right?
This means a new boiler would repay in 10 years on the cost of pilot
light gas alone.


Forgetting the cost of the gas used for a minute, you're assuming all that
energy is wasted. It's not - only a proportion is. The rest goes to
keeping the water inside the boiler warm so it doesn't have to heat up so
far when it fires next. More wastage when the system isn't in use though I
suppose.

--
*When blondes have more fun, do they know it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #13  
Old December 6th 06, 11:13 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 9,132
Default Pilot light gas usage

On 2006-12-06 21:55:43 +0000, Ed Sirett said:

I don't agree (I wouldn't would I?) with those who _automatically_ state
that a modern boiler is less reliable than a traditional type.



Well.... no....

You could be doing the sharp intake of breath routine and saying something like

"Mrs Jones....... it's yer pump"

whereupon Mrs. Jones mouths in a hushed voice...

"Will it be all right?"

and you give a wry smile and nod, resulting in a very relieved looking
Mrs Jones (who
would be willing to pay anything to know this) and an apprentice who
looks on in total wonderment
at how BG can possibly get away with charging 150 per annum for this.




A _quality_ modern boiler might also have a long life. Electronics are not
unreliable per se. The materials used are potentially better than those
used traditionally.



  #14  
Old December 7th 06, 10:17 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 4
Default Pilot light gas usage


Forgetting the cost of the gas used for a minute, you're assuming all that
energy is wasted. It's not - only a proportion is. The rest goes to
keeping the water inside the boiler warm so it doesn't have to heat up so
far when it fires next. More wastage when the system isn't in use though I
suppose.


Hadn't thought of it like that, but there's only so much water inside a
boiler. As soon as the pump starts and cold water is drawn in then
surely this preheating effect is minimal?

  #15  
Old December 7th 06, 10:22 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 112
Default Pilot light gas usage

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
I've worked out that the pilot light on my old Vaillant combi boiler
uses the equivalent of 60UKP of gas per year, does this sound right?
This means a new boiler would repay in 10 years on the cost of pilot
light gas alone.


Forgetting the cost of the gas used for a minute, you're assuming all that
energy is wasted. It's not - only a proportion is. The rest goes to
keeping the water inside the boiler warm so it doesn't have to heat up so
far when it fires next. More wastage when the system isn't in use though I
suppose.


Of course if a boiler can effectively use this heat to keep the water
warm, you might also argue it is just as likely to be radiating it back
up the flue, once the balance has been reached between heat gain and
heat loss. At what water temperature this might occur, I wouldn't care
to guess. At 60 pounds/year and assuming the old boiler is
significantly less efficient anyway, an immediate investment in a new
boiler could be easily justified.

What surprises me is that a pilot light needs to be set at such a level
that it is producing 200W of heat anyway. Most of us would think that
leaving 200W of lighting on 24/7 would be wasteful in the extreme, even
if electricity is 3 times as expensive as gas.

[Slight topic shift - has anyone bought one of those power usage
devices and found it useful? I'm thinking of checking out what power
my various toys on standby use. For example, my laptop charger seems
to cool right off when off-charge (although I tend to disconnect it
anyway) whereas the brick for my DAB radio is always warm.]

--
"Beware of programmers carrying screwdrivers."

  #16  
Old December 7th 06, 11:27 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 512
Default Pilot light gas usage



On Dec 7, 10:22 am, "John Laird" wrote:
[Slight topic shift - has anyone bought one of those power usage
devices and found it useful? I'm thinking of checking out what power
my various toys on standby use. For example, my laptop charger seems
to cool right off when off-charge (although I tend to disconnect it


Almost certainly an efficient switch mode supply.

anyway) whereas the brick for my DAB radio is always warm.]


Probably a cheap inneficient transformer and linear regulator.

Anytime the heating is on, the heat from your wall warts isn't wasted.

  #18  
Old December 7th 06, 01:52 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 8
Default Pilot light gas usage




[Slight topic shift - has anyone bought one of those power usage
devices and found it useful? I'm thinking of checking out what power
my various toys on standby use. For example, my laptop charger seems
to cool right off when off-charge (although I tend to disconnect it
anyway) whereas the brick for my DAB radio is always warm.]


It probably also has a poor power factor as well as being left on 24/77.
Someone said there's a move afoot to replace all consumer meters with new
ones that charge by volt-amps rather than watts. They were coming to do
mine this month.
Its a double whammy since not only are gadgets like Sky and Freeview boxes
left on 24/7 (going to standby doesn't make much difference) but they will
charge consumption by the amps instead of real power. Could be nearly 10p
per day per box.

rusty



  #19  
Old December 7th 06, 02:02 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 759
Default Pilot light gas usage

On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:52:54 -0000, "rusty" wrote:

|
|
|
| [Slight topic shift - has anyone bought one of those power usage
| devices and found it useful? I'm thinking of checking out what power
| my various toys on standby use. For example, my laptop charger seems
| to cool right off when off-charge (although I tend to disconnect it
| anyway) whereas the brick for my DAB radio is always warm.]
|
|It probably also has a poor power factor as well as being left on 24/77.
|Someone said there's a move afoot to replace all consumer meters with new
|ones that charge by volt-amps rather than watts. They were coming to do
|mine this month.
|Its a double whammy since not only are gadgets like Sky and Freeview boxes
|left on 24/7 (going to standby doesn't make much difference) but they will
|charge consumption by the amps instead of real power. Could be nearly 10p
|per day per box.

Anyone selling mains power factor correction capacitors?
They should work, but I would want to use a meter which measured power
factor to check that they were not over correcting, which would cost money.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.
  #20  
Old December 7th 06, 02:17 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 8
Default Pilot light gas usage



Anyone selling mains power factor correction capacitors?
They should work, but I would want to use a meter which measured power
factor to check that they were not over correcting, which would cost
money.
--


The little 13A plug in power meter adaptors that Maplin sell and also Aldi,
Lidl from time to time will read either volt-amps or watts and show power
factor and accumulated cost. A old style Sky box has a power factor of
about 0.6 and draws 15VA which is well OTT.

rusty



 




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