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GB
 
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Default Dirty folk: third shower proposed!

I have a flat with the hot water cylinder fed by a small water tank at
ceiling level within the flat with a 22mm pipe! Shower was ridiculous, as
virtually no head of water, so I fitted a pump. Dire warnings about the
cylinder running out of water and the pump running dry have so far turned
out to be garbage. No probs at all. I guess that there is only so much water
will flow through a shower head.

HTH

Geoff


"Mungo Henning" wrote in message
...
Hi Folks,
Now that I've grabbed your attention with that Subject line, let me

explain:

Three levels in my house: loft (attic) unused except for junk, bedrooms in
first floor, main living areas and bathroom on ground floor.

50 gallon cold water tank in loft, feeding a hot water tank
situated on the first floor (feed via 28mm pipe).
Thermostatic shower at ground floor (great shower).

Last year we added a second shower (in the first floor loo) but decided to
install
an electric shower (10.8 Kw) to cope with those times where someone has
had a bath and the hot tank hasn't recovered yet.

Latest brainwave from "her indoors" is to add an en-suite to our master
bedroom,
and whilst I'm installing it, I might as well put in another shower for
convenience (!)

Dilemma: what kind of shower should I install?
Since we already have an electric shower (10.8 Kw), adding another might

be
fun
when accidentally they both get used at the same time (100A consumer

unit).
Since the en-suite will be on the first floor there probably won't be

enough
head
of water for a thermostatic (gravity) shower.

Power shower then (pump the hot and cold)? Would the 28mm feed to the tank
be enough for the pump, or am I still contemplating one of those flanges?

The other part of the equation is the fact that we do have a three-phase
supply
(although we only use one and have one meter). Use another phase for the
new shower alone? Don't think so, but you might know better.

So, whaddya think?

Opinions requested; thanks in advance

Mungo




  #2   Report Post  
IMM
 
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Default Dirty folk: third shower proposed!


"GB" wrote in message
...

I have a flat with the hot water cylinder fed by a small water tank at
ceiling level within the flat with a 22mm pipe! Shower was ridiculous, as
virtually no head of water, so I fitted a pump. Dire warnings about the
cylinder running out of water and the pump running dry have so far turned
out to be garbage. No probs at all. I guess that there is only so much

water
will flow through a shower head.


Full length shower panels are now popular and are sold in Screwfix and the
sheds. These can drain a normal cylinder in a few minutes. Also a high
pressure pump can also do the same.


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  #3   Report Post  
IMM
 
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Default Dirty folk: third shower proposed!


"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:57:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


Get rid of the electric shower as they are made by Satan himself.


Why?


Satan operates in mysterious ways and electric showers are one of them.


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Julian Fowler
 
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Default Dirty folk: third shower proposed!

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:18:27 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:57:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


Get rid of the electric shower as they are made by Satan himself.


Why?


Satan operates in mysterious ways and electric showers are one of them.


My question was genuine: why the opposition to electric showers
(preferable to other options, IMO, on grounds of practicality)?

Julian

--
Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk
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IMM
 
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Default Dirty folk: third shower proposed!


"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:18:27 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:57:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


Get rid of the electric shower as they are made by Satan himself.

Why?


Satan operates in mysterious ways and electric showers are one of them.


My question was genuine: why the opposition to electric showers
(preferable to other options, IMO, on grounds of practicality)?


1. They cost 3 to 4 times more to run.
2. They are unreliable.
3. They have poor control
4. They have poor flow. To have a half decent flow you require very heavy
expensive cable right back to the CU, negating any so-called ease of
installation and reduced installation costs.
5. They are ugly.
6. They have electricity in wet room near to wet hands.
7. Electricity emits far more greenhouse gasses than

In short Satan uses one every day.



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  #6   Report Post  
David Hearn
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dirty folk: third shower proposed!


"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:26:32 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:18:27 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:57:13 +0100, "IMM"

wrote:


Get rid of the electric shower as they are made by Satan himself.

Why?

Satan operates in mysterious ways and electric showers are one of

them.

My question was genuine: why the opposition to electric showers
(preferable to other options, IMO, on grounds of practicality)?

1. They cost 3 to 4 times more to run.


Compared to?


Gas.


But they're instant - no need for having a store of water already heated (or
installing extra kit such as your suggested quick recovery cylinder).


2. They are unreliable.


Not in my experience.


The views of one don't count.


Okay - I've found that in my life, the 3 electric showers I've had (3
different properties I note!) have never been unreliable. Does that could
as 3 votes, or just 1?


3. They have poor control


Ours have multiple settings for different users - push your button,
you get your preferred temperature and flow rate. Far *better*
control than other showers we've had in the past.


Get yourself a real thermostatic shower and see the difference.


Same goes for cars - get yourself a nice sports car and you'll never want to
drive a Skoda again - however, doesn't mean that Skodas should be scrapped!


4. They have poor flow.


Compared to a GBH-with-a-sledge-hammer power shower maybe, but quite
good enough for most wake-me-up-after-a-heavy-night needs.


Still poor flow.


But may be adequate (see Skoda reference)


To have a half decent flow you require very heavy
expensive cable right back to the CU, negating any so-called ease of
installation and reduced installation costs.


Huh? We had a new shower installed earlier this year; it took the
electrician about 45 minutes to install the cable from the CU
(downstairs) to the wall behind the shower (upstairs), 15 minutes to
connect it up.


Most have to run a cable all through the house. Because yours was easy

does
not mean most are.


Though surely you still have to do this with a dedicated feed from the water
tank if you used a pumped shower? I know I'd prefer to lay cable rather
than pipework...


5. They are ugly.


Compared to?


Good well made proper showers which have style and panache.


Who cares about style and panache? Its a washing device!!!


6. They have electricity in wet room near to wet hands.


So do dishwashers, washing machines, ...


But not where water is being squirted around by wet hands.


If its sealed adequately, then its safe. Outside sockets/switches etc have
been used safely for years.


7. Electricity emits far more greenhouse gasses than


... ???


Natural gas, so they slowly kill us.


So I take it you cycle everywhere?

D


  #7   Report Post  
Christian McArdle
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dirty folk: third shower proposed!

See. Very simple when some linear thinking is applied. Satan makes them.

I am actually totally in agreement with IMM here. There are some
circumstances where they could be useful. An all-electric flat springs to
mind.

Christian.


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IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dirty folk: third shower proposed!


"David Hearn" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:26:32 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:18:27 +0100, "IMM"

wrote:


"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:57:13 +0100, "IMM"

wrote:


Get rid of the electric shower as they are made by Satan

himself.

Why?

Satan operates in mysterious ways and electric showers are one of

them.

My question was genuine: why the opposition to electric showers
(preferable to other options, IMO, on grounds of practicality)?

1. They cost 3 to 4 times more to run.

Compared to?


Gas.


But they're instant - no need for having a store of water already heated

(or
installing extra kit such as your suggested quick recovery cylinder).


The OP was installing a bath too.

2. They are unreliable.

Not in my experience.


The views of one don't count.


Okay - I've found that in my life, the 3 electric showers I've had (3
different properties I note!) have never been unreliable. Does that could
as 3 votes, or just 1?


Well your votes count with the other millions to this one.

3. They have poor control

Ours have multiple settings for different users - push your button,
you get your preferred temperature and flow rate. Far *better*
control than other showers we've had in the past.


Get yourself a real thermostatic shower and see the difference.


Same goes for cars - get yourself a nice
sports car and you'll never want to
drive a Skoda again - however, doesn't
mean that Skodas should be scrapped!


It does mean they should not be made as they were. BTW, Skoda's are now
superb cars. You see they looked at their earlier cars and electric showers
and though we must make cars like excellent proper shower, and look what
they did..

4. They have poor flow.

Compared to a GBH-with-a-sledge-hammer power shower maybe, but quite
good enough for most wake-me-up-after-a-heavy-night needs.


Still poor flow.


But may be adequate (see Skoda reference)


Those Skoda's are no longer made.

To have a half decent flow you require very heavy
expensive cable right back to the CU, negating any so-called ease of
installation and reduced installation costs.

Huh? We had a new shower installed earlier this year; it took the
electrician about 45 minutes to install the cable from the CU
(downstairs) to the wall behind the shower (upstairs), 15 minutes to
connect it up.


Most have to run a cable all through the house. Because yours was easy

does
not mean most are.


Though surely you still have to do this with a dedicated feed from the

water
tank if you used a pumped shower? I know I'd prefer to lay cable rather
than pipework...


Plastic pipe is easy these days.

5. They are ugly.

Compared to?


Good well made proper showers which have style and panache.


Who cares about style and panache? Its a washing device!!!


Old Skoda owners?

6. They have electricity in wet room near to wet hands.

So do dishwashers, washing machines, ...


But not where water is being squirted around by wet hands.


If its sealed adequately, then its safe. Outside sockets/switches etc

have
been used safely for years.


Sockets are not supposed to be near water, sinks etc.

7. Electricity emits far more greenhouse gasses than

... ???


Natural gas, so they slowly kill us.


So I take it you cycle everywhere?


No I use natural gas, and walk when I can.


---
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  #9   Report Post  
Mungo Henning
 
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Default Dirty folk: third shower proposed!

Hi folks,
Ta to all the repliers so far.

Regarding the Electric shower, I find the 10.8Kwatt one very commendable,
but
I'm worried about putting a second one in when the main consumer unit is
rated at 100A.

So, were I to go the "pumped" route, I wouldn't want it to be a fitted
power-washer,
just to mimic the flow I get on the downstairs gravity shower.
What kind of pump then? Where's the best place to buy it? What's all this
about "3 bar"
and such?

Mungo


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