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Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 9th 03, 11:57 PM
Andy Hall
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Posts: n/a
Default Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit

I don't believe that this one has come up in quite this form before so
should be worth a thread.

I'm completing a summer house in the garden and adding the electricity
supply.

This is being run from the main CU via SWA and enters the building
inside next to the outer wall. There is an inner studded and clad
wall, which over most of the building is insulated, but in the area of
the electrical services will be kept mainly clear. Thus there is a
compartment formed by a partly fixed and partly removable panel with a
65mm gap to the outside wall.

My original plan was to bring the SWA up inside the cavity and through
to the front just below a CU fitted to the front panel, terminating
in a 20mm gland fitted to the CU.

However, the CU is an insulated MK type which has T&E shaped knockouts
around the edges and some rectangular knockouts on the back. There
are no round knockouts for glands and not really a suitable place to
drill for one.

I thought of simply bringing the SWA into the back of the CU, running
the red and black core cables to the incomer breaker. However, this
does not seem that mechanically satisfactory. I can clip the cable
as far as a point close to the entry through the back.

An alternative idea is to use a metal box with 20mm knockouts at both
ends. This would be fitted in the cavity (screwed down) and use a
gland to terminate the SWA cable with the conductors going into a 30A
terminal block. 6mm^2 T&E would continue from there into the CU.

Has anyone had to deal with a similar situation, and come up with a
neat solution?
..andy

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  #2  
Old September 10th 03, 01:12 AM
Andy Wade
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Posts: n/a
Default Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

I thought of simply bringing the SWA into the back of the CU,
running the red and black core cables to the incomer breaker.
However, this does not seem that mechanically satisfactory. I can
clip the cable as far as a point close to the entry through the
back.

An alternative idea is to use a metal box with 20mm knockouts at
both ends. This would be fitted in the cavity (screwed down) and
use a gland to terminate the SWA cable with the conductors going
into a 30A terminal block. 6mm^2 T&E would continue from there
into the CU.

Has anyone had to deal with a similar situation, and come up with a
neat solution?


Could you mount an adaptable box close up to the CU housing (directly behind
it, say) and couple it mechanically with a long pattern conduit bush (would
probably need to be 25mm) and a few lockrings? Then take the SWA into the
adaptable box with a gland in the usual way, and feed the L&N thro' the bush
and into the CU itself.

It's not clear whether you're using the armour to provide an earth or
whether you need to isolate it at this end because the summer house will be
a TT system. If the latter, a plastic adaptable box may be preferable to
metal (since the armour should be considered as potentially live within the
separately earthed zone, IYSWIM).

--
Andy


  #3  
Old September 10th 03, 06:15 AM
BigWallop
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Posts: n/a
Default Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:12:22 +0100, "Andy Wade"
wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

I thought of simply bringing the SWA into the back of the CU,
running the red and black core cables to the incomer breaker.
However, this does not seem that mechanically satisfactory. I can
clip the cable as far as a point close to the entry through the
back.

An alternative idea is to use a metal box with 20mm knockouts at
both ends. This would be fitted in the cavity (screwed down) and
use a gland to terminate the SWA cable with the conductors going
into a 30A terminal block. 6mm^2 T&E would continue from there
into the CU.

Has anyone had to deal with a similar situation, and come up with a
neat solution?


Could you mount an adaptable box close up to the CU housing (directly

behind
it, say) and couple it mechanically with a long pattern conduit bush

(would
probably need to be 25mm) and a few lockrings? Then take the SWA into

the
adaptable box with a gland in the usual way, and feed the L&N thro' the

bush
and into the CU itself.


Hmmm. Yes that does seem like a good solution and certainly solid.


It's not clear whether you're using the armour to provide an earth or
whether you need to isolate it at this end because the summer house will

be
a TT system. If the latter, a plastic adaptable box may be preferable to
metal (since the armour should be considered as potentially live within

the
separately earthed zone, IYSWIM).



Yes, I see what you are saying. I hadn't really decided whether to
separately zone it. Since it is close to the house, I was thinking
more in terms of exporting the earth through the armour in this
particular case. In this case I'd add in an earth wire from the gland
tag to the earth bus bar of the CU.

Do you have a suggested way of terminating onto the tag? On a metal
CU it seems to be common practice to bolt through the small hole of
the tag to the CU metalwork and then from a terminal on the case to
the earth busbar. A nut and bolt for the wire directly onto the tag
does not seem very good mechanically, so perhaps a soldered joint?

.andy



You should have been given a brass earth tag when you bought the glands for
the SWA. Yes ? Then you will fit the brass tag (that's the thing with a
big hole in one end and small hole at the other) over the threaded end of
the brass gland before you stick it through the hole you've drilled for the
fitting, and then tighten it in with the locking nut of the gland. Next
you'll need the two nuts, the four washers and the one bolt you bought when
you got the rest of the fittings. You did get them, didn't you ?

Anyway. You can now drill a hole through the box and through the small hole
of the brass earth tag. Yes, that's right, so you can bolt the small hole
end of the earth tag to the side of consumer unit too. You only use two
washers at this bit, one on the outside and one on the inside. Then you put
one of the nuts on and tighten it all up so you make a sandwich of the wall
of the consumer unit. Next. Take another washer and put it on top of the
nut on the inside of the box. You then take the 6 mm green/yellow insulated
cable you got, you did get that as well, didn't you ?

Anyway. You crimp on the loop to one end of 6 mm cable and then slip it
over the bolt. What do you mean "I didn't get any crimp on loop" well this
is were you're you gonna' need one to do the job right. OK. You've now got
the crimp on loop on the end of the 6 mm green/yellow cable. Right. You
put the last washer on the top of that, and then the last nut on the top of
that.. Don't tighten it up to far just now though, as you've got the other
end of the cable to terminate.

Trim down the cable to the length you need and slip off some insulation,
enough to let you connect into the earth bar of the consumer unit. Yes, the
brass bar thing screwed to the side with all the holes and bolt in it. No
!!! Not the one for the neutrals, the other one. Now, you've got that end
secure, you can go back and tighten up the nut and make sure that the cable
isn't fouling anything and that the lid will go back on without mishaps.

Right !!! You're ready to tackle the red and black conductors to the main
switch now ? Good !!!

Now !!! What about the other end of the SWA. :-))


---
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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  #4  
Old September 10th 03, 06:31 AM
BigWallop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit


"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:12:22 +0100, "Andy Wade"
wrote:

snipped
A nut and bolt for the wire directly onto the tag
does not seem very good mechanically, so perhaps a soldered joint?

.andy



You should have been given a brass earth tag when you bought the glands

for
the SWA. Yes ? Then you will fit the brass tag (that's the thing with a
big hole in one end and small hole at the other) over the threaded end of
the brass gland before you stick it through the hole you've drilled for

the
fitting, and then tighten it in with the locking nut of the gland. Next
you'll need the two nuts, the four washers and the one bolt you bought

when
you got the rest of the fittings. You did get them, didn't you ?

Anyway. You can now drill a hole through the box and through the small

hole
of the brass earth tag. Yes, that's right, so you can bolt the small hole
end of the earth tag to the side of consumer unit too. You only use two
washers at this bit, one on the outside and one on the inside. Then you

put
one of the nuts on and tighten it all up so you make a sandwich of the

wall
of the consumer unit. Next. Take another washer and put it on top of the
nut on the inside of the box. You then take the 6 mm green/yellow

insulated
cable you got, you did get that as well, didn't you ?

Anyway. You crimp on the loop to one end of 6 mm cable and then slip it
over the bolt. What do you mean "I didn't get any crimp on loop" well

this
is were you're you gonna' need one to do the job right. OK. You've now

got
the crimp on loop on the end of the 6 mm green/yellow cable. Right. You
put the last washer on the top of that, and then the last nut on the top

of
that.. Don't tighten it up to far just now though, as you've got the

other
end of the cable to terminate.

Trim down the cable to the length you need and slip off some insulation,
enough to let you connect into the earth bar of the consumer unit. Yes,

the
brass bar thing screwed to the side with all the holes and bolt in it. No
!!! Not the one for the neutrals, the other one. Now, you've got that

end
secure, you can go back and tighten up the nut and make sure that the

cable
isn't fouling anything and that the lid will go back on without mishaps.

Right !!! You're ready to tackle the red and black conductors to the main
switch now ? Good !!!

Now !!! What about the other end of the SWA. :-))



What do you mean " You didn't get any shrouds to fit over the glands" ?


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/03


  #5  
Old September 10th 03, 09:31 AM
Andy Wade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Do you have a suggested way of terminating onto the tag?


I'd use a brass screw and a multiplicity of nuts (as a patent agent would
put it) through the small hole in the tag in conjunction with a crimped ring
terminal lug on the end of the earthing wire.

With care it's possible to bend the end of the tag over thro' 90 so that
the connection is entirely inside the enclosure. Do this if you're using a
plastic box because you don't really want a joint relying on pressure
applied through plastic parts which might creep.

--
Andy


  #6  
Old September 10th 03, 11:33 AM
Andy Hall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 04:31:28 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:12:22 +0100, "Andy Wade"
wrote:

snipped
A nut and bolt for the wire directly onto the tag
does not seem very good mechanically, so perhaps a soldered joint?

.andy



You should have been given a brass earth tag when you bought the glands

for
the SWA. Yes ? Then you will fit the brass tag (that's the thing with a
big hole in one end and small hole at the other) over the threaded end of
the brass gland before you stick it through the hole you've drilled for

the
fitting, and then tighten it in with the locking nut of the gland. Next
you'll need the two nuts, the four washers and the one bolt you bought

when
you got the rest of the fittings. You did get them, didn't you ?

Anyway. You can now drill a hole through the box and through the small

hole
of the brass earth tag. Yes, that's right, so you can bolt the small hole
end of the earth tag to the side of consumer unit too. You only use two
washers at this bit, one on the outside and one on the inside. Then you

put
one of the nuts on and tighten it all up so you make a sandwich of the

wall
of the consumer unit. Next. Take another washer and put it on top of the
nut on the inside of the box. You then take the 6 mm green/yellow

insulated
cable you got, you did get that as well, didn't you ?

Anyway. You crimp on the loop to one end of 6 mm cable and then slip it
over the bolt. What do you mean "I didn't get any crimp on loop" well

this
is were you're you gonna' need one to do the job right. OK. You've now

got
the crimp on loop on the end of the 6 mm green/yellow cable. Right. You
put the last washer on the top of that, and then the last nut on the top

of
that.. Don't tighten it up to far just now though, as you've got the

other
end of the cable to terminate.

Trim down the cable to the length you need and slip off some insulation,
enough to let you connect into the earth bar of the consumer unit. Yes,

the
brass bar thing screwed to the side with all the holes and bolt in it. No
!!! Not the one for the neutrals, the other one. Now, you've got that

end
secure, you can go back and tighten up the nut and make sure that the

cable
isn't fouling anything and that the lid will go back on without mishaps.

Right !!! You're ready to tackle the red and black conductors to the main
switch now ? Good !!!

Now !!! What about the other end of the SWA. :-))



What do you mean " You didn't get any shrouds to fit over the glands" ?


I have all of the above, but didn't think of using my crimp on
terminals. Yes I do have shrouds with the glands.
Thanks for the suggestion.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #7  
Old September 10th 03, 08:54 PM
Rick Hughes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
I don't believe that this one has come up in quite this form before so
should be worth a thread.

I'm completing a summer house in the garden and adding the electricity
supply.

This is being run from the main CU via SWA and enters the building
inside next to the outer wall. There is an inner studded and clad
wall, which over most of the building is insulated, but in the area of
the electrical services will be kept mainly clear. Thus there is a
compartment formed by a partly fixed and partly removable panel with a
65mm gap to the outside wall.

My original plan was to bring the SWA up inside the cavity and through
to the front just below a CU fitted to the front panel, terminating
in a 20mm gland fitted to the CU.

However, the CU is an insulated MK type which has T&E shaped knockouts
around the edges and some rectangular knockouts on the back. There
are no round knockouts for glands and not really a suitable place to
drill for one.

I thought of simply bringing the SWA into the back of the CU, running
the red and black core cables to the incomer breaker. However, this
does not seem that mechanically satisfactory. I can clip the cable
as far as a point close to the entry through the back.

An alternative idea is to use a metal box with 20mm knockouts at both
ends. This would be fitted in the cavity (screwed down) and use a
gland to terminate the SWA cable with the conductors going into a 30A
terminal block. 6mm^2 T&E would continue from there into the CU.

Has anyone had to deal with a similar situation, and come up with a
neat solution?



Andy - I did the latter fixed a small galv box alongside the CU, terminated
the SWA as normal on the galv box - and run the cores direct through the
box (with suitable grommet) into the CU.

Seemed simplest to me.

Rick


  #8  
Old September 10th 03, 09:15 PM
Andy Hall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:54:59 +0000 (UTC), "Rick Hughes"
wrote:




Andy - I did the latter fixed a small galv box alongside the CU, terminated
the SWA as normal on the galv box - and run the cores direct through the
box (with suitable grommet) into the CU.

Seemed simplest to me.

Rick

Thanks Rick.

This, or perhaps a variant with a conduit coupler or something similar
does look to be the way to go. I have the space behind the CU and
can make that panel removable for access to the terminals in order to
comply in that area.

I couldn't think of a regulatory reason why the SWA cable couldn't be
brought into the CU, the steel wires sleeved and run to the earth bus
bar. However, it seemed to be a rather shoddy way to implement.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #9  
Old September 10th 03, 10:03 PM
Ed Sirett
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit

Rick Hughes wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
I don't believe that this one has come up in quite this form before so
should be worth a thread.

I'm completing a summer house in the garden and adding the electricity
supply.

This is being run from the main CU via SWA and enters the building
inside next to the outer wall. There is an inner studded and clad
wall, which over most of the building is insulated, but in the area of
the electrical services will be kept mainly clear. Thus there is a
compartment formed by a partly fixed and partly removable panel with a
65mm gap to the outside wall.

My original plan was to bring the SWA up inside the cavity and through
to the front just below a CU fitted to the front panel, terminating
in a 20mm gland fitted to the CU.

However, the CU is an insulated MK type which has T&E shaped knockouts
around the edges and some rectangular knockouts on the back. There
are no round knockouts for glands and not really a suitable place to
drill for one.

I thought of simply bringing the SWA into the back of the CU, running
the red and black core cables to the incomer breaker. However, this
does not seem that mechanically satisfactory. I can clip the cable
as far as a point close to the entry through the back.

An alternative idea is to use a metal box with 20mm knockouts at both
ends. This would be fitted in the cavity (screwed down) and use a
gland to terminate the SWA cable with the conductors going into a 30A
terminal block. 6mm^2 T&E would continue from there into the CU.

Has anyone had to deal with a similar situation, and come up with a
neat solution?


Andy - I did the latter fixed a small galv box alongside the CU, terminated
the SWA as normal on the galv box - and run the cores direct through the
box (with suitable grommet) into the CU.



Apologies for the p[revious blank post.

I had much the same sort of problems when wired my store room.

I used plastic boxes both end and a short length of T&E.
The armouring was earthed using the tag in the house end box.
I used 3 core 2.5mm^2 SWA so the third core was used to export the
earth.
[This practice is probably wrong since I used the yellow core sleeved
with green&yellow for the earth. ]


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
  #10  
Old September 10th 03, 11:22 PM
BigWallop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Terminating SWA at insulated consumer unit


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 04:31:28 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

snipped

What do you mean " You didn't get any shrouds to fit over the glands" ?


I have all of the above, but didn't think of using my crimp on
terminals. Yes I do have shrouds with the glands.
Thanks for the suggestion.

.andy



The wording I used Andy, is roughly a conversation I had with a young 4th
yearer on a site quite recently. He was left to make all the termination
for the first time on his own. I just couldn't resist going through it
again when it was still fresh enough in my mind.

After four years on the job and he couldn't it right, SHEESH !!! I don't
think he'll go far.


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/03


 




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