[None]

I changed my dishwasher the other day to be horrified at the amount of
mud underneath the old unit. I then checked under the dishwasher...
same. To see the extent of the problem I drained the attic tank, and
there was a thick brown sludgy mess at the bottom also. I wonder is it
due to a mains leak somewhere? Any help/advice on this would be great.
I'm on a mains water supply with strict regs... so I don't think this
should be happening?!

[None]

None wrote:

I changed my dishwasher the other day to be horrified at the amount of
mud underneath the old unit. I then checked under the dishwasher...
same. To see the extent of the problem I drained the attic tank, and
there was a thick brown sludgy mess at the bottom also. I wonder is it
due to a mains leak somewhere? Any help/advice on this would be great.
I'm on a mains water supply with strict regs... so I don't think this
should be happening?!

Sorry, meant to say I changed my washing machine...

[Dave Baker]

"None" wrote in message
ps.com...
I changed my dishwasher the other day to be horrified at the amount of
mud underneath the old unit. I then checked under the dishwasher...
same. To see the extent of the problem I drained the attic tank, and
there was a thick brown sludgy mess at the bottom also. I wonder is it
due to a mains leak somewhere? Any help/advice on this would be great.
I'm on a mains water supply with strict regs... so I don't think this
should be happening?!

Just contact your water company for a water quality test. You can also
contact the Drinking Water Inspectorate if you don't get a satisfactory
result from the water board. However if there is a leak and it's on your
property I think you'll end up paying for the repairs so it might be a
double edged sword.

I'm not sure why there should be anything under your dishwasher unless it
was leaking in which case most of the mess might be rust. The attic tank
should be clean though.
--
Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines
www.pumaracing.co.uk
Camp USA engineer minces about for high performance specialist (4,4,7)

[VisionSet]

"None" wrote in message
ps.com...
I changed my dishwasher the other day to be horrified at the amount of
mud underneath the old unit. I then checked under the dishwasher...
same. To see the extent of the problem I drained the attic tank, and
there was a thick brown sludgy mess at the bottom also. I wonder is it
due to a mains leak somewhere? Any help/advice on this would be great.
I'm on a mains water supply with strict regs... so I don't think this
should be happening?!

Have you a hose attached outside? Is there a double check valve
incorporated (usually in the tap).
If not this could be a cause, but back syphoning into your loft storage tank
sounds a little far fetched!

--
Mike W

[Dave Fawthrop]

On 3 Dec 2006 07:22:29 -0800, "None" wrote:

|I changed my dishwasher the other day to be horrified at the amount of
|mud underneath the old unit. I then checked under the dishwasher...
|same. To see the extent of the problem I drained the attic tank, and
|there was a thick brown sludgy mess at the bottom also. I wonder is it
|due to a mains leak somewhere? Any help/advice on this would be great.
|I'm on a mains water supply with strict regs... so I don't think this
|should be happening?!

Your kitchen tap comes straight from the mains supply, that is OK for
cooking and drinking and to the appropriate specifications.

You should not use any water from an attic tank for cooking or drinking,
because the problem of sludge in attic tanks which you observed is common
in UK houses.

Hot water from a combi is OK for cooking and drinking, because it has not
been stored. I have had this from an Environmental Health Officer.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

[None]

The mess underneath the appliances was definitely soil, as I gave it
the 'smell test' unorthodox as that may seem... but not rust. I have
had to clean out the attic tank before because of this, but I presumed
that it was a normal thing, now I doubt that. The water has a yellow
hue to it (slight) that I have noticed, but I suppose I will ring the
water supplier tomorrow, although I'm pretty sure they won't find
anything wrong outside. The plumbing under the sink looks suspect and
the black plastic main pipe is lightly covered in soil smelling
stuff... weird. There is a strong 'earthy' odour there too.

[David Hansen]

On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:28:20 +0000 someone who may be Dave Fawthrop
wrote this:-

You should not use any water from an attic tank for cooking or drinking,
because the problem of sludge in attic tanks which you observed is common
in UK houses.

And the sludge is thus not in the water one is drinking.

Hot water from a combi is OK for cooking and drinking, because it has not
been stored. I have had this from an Environmental Health Officer.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to council officials on the
subject. There are ways of making water in a storage tank unsuitable
to drink, but if the tank is installed and maintained properly there
is very little risk drinking water from such a tank. The water that
comes in the mains is more dangerous, as the residents of several
places including Camelford would attest.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

[Dave Liquorice]

On 3 Dec 2006 07:22:29 -0800, None wrote:

To see the extent of the problem I drained the attic tank, and there
was a thick brown sludgy mess at the bottom also. I wonder is it due to
a mains leak somewhere?

A leak with several bar of pressure behind it is not likley to let any
muck in. Now if the pressure drops and becomes negative relative to the
inside of the pipe...

I'm on a mains water supply with strict regs... so I don't think this
should be happening?!

You don't say where you are. Birmingham's water is lovely and soft but is
distinctly brown, either from Elan peat and/or the iron pipes that ship
it to Birmingham from Wales.

Is the tank covered with a close fitting lid? If not then don't expect
clean tanks, even with a lid I doubt the builders will have cleaned the
tanks before fitting so a layer of brick dust and other muck is "normal".

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

[None]

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On 3 Dec 2006 07:22:29 -0800, None wrote:

To see the extent of the problem I drained the attic tank, and there
was a thick brown sludgy mess at the bottom also. I wonder is it due to
a mains leak somewhere?

A leak with several bar of pressure behind it is not likley to let any
muck in. Now if the pressure drops and becomes negative relative to the
inside of the pipe...

I'm on a mains water supply with strict regs... so I don't think this
should be happening?!

You don't say where you are. Birmingham's water is lovely and soft but is
distinctly brown, either from Elan peat and/or the iron pipes that ship
it to Birmingham from Wales.

Is the tank covered with a close fitting lid? If not then don't expect
clean tanks, even with a lid I doubt the builders will have cleaned the
tanks before fitting so a layer of brick dust and other muck is "normal".

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



I'm actually in Dublin, but we have the same system as in Britain...
also supposed to have the best water in the country around here too!
It's soft, not hard also. I had the water tested, and the main
difference with other samples in the area was the level of sediment
which was higher than usual and pH (6.7) which was much lower than the
norm.

The tank is fitted with a lid and has to cleaned out periodically due
to soil buildup. Even the filter inside the Triton T90 shower gets soil
in it. Really odd problem I know, maybe I should get the mains
replumbed?

[Roly]

None wrote:

I changed my dishwasher the other day to be horrified at the amount of
mud underneath the old unit. I then checked under the dishwasher...
same. To see the extent of the problem I drained the attic tank, and
there was a thick brown sludgy mess at the bottom also. I wonder is it
due to a mains leak somewhere? Any help/advice on this would be great.
I'm on a mains water supply with strict regs... so I don't think this
should be happening?!

We had exactly the same problem in our house. It was certainly soil
rather than any other sort of crud. A few months later, a water leak was
discovered in the mains supply under our drive.

It was explained to us that although the water was at a fairly high
pressure, it escaped into the soil which pretty well withstood the water
pressure, but a cavity was formed and water would swirl around in that
cavity at something like mains pressure and find it's way back into the
pipe at times when the pipe pressure momentarily dipped - flushing the
loo etc. At that instant, the pressure in the cavity was equal or
greater than in the pipe and water and soil could flow into the pipe.

When the pipe was fixed the soil in the water never came back.

I've no idea if this explanation is reliable, but it sounds reasonably
plausible.

[None]

Roly wrote:

None wrote:

I changed my dishwasher the other day to be horrified at the amount of
mud underneath the old unit. I then checked under the dishwasher...
same. To see the extent of the problem I drained the attic tank, and
there was a thick brown sludgy mess at the bottom also. I wonder is it
due to a mains leak somewhere? Any help/advice on this would be great.
I'm on a mains water supply with strict regs... so I don't think this
should be happening?!

We had exactly the same problem in our house. It was certainly soil
rather than any other sort of crud. A few months later, a water leak was
discovered in the mains supply under our drive.

It was explained to us that although the water was at a fairly high
pressure, it escaped into the soil which pretty well withstood the water
pressure, but a cavity was formed and water would swirl around in that
cavity at something like mains pressure and find it's way back into the
pipe at times when the pipe pressure momentarily dipped - flushing the
loo etc. At that instant, the pressure in the cavity was equal or
greater than in the pipe and water and soil could flow into the pipe.

When the pipe was fixed the soil in the water never came back.

I've no idea if this explanation is reliable, but it sounds reasonably
plausible.




How serious was your problem i.e. was your actual drinking water
running brown, because ours isn't, though there is a definite yellowy
colour to it. How did the council/water company fix it? Did they have
to dig up your whole driveway?

[None]

None wrote:

Roly wrote:

None wrote:

I changed my dishwasher the other day to be horrified at the amount of
mud underneath the old unit. I then checked under the dishwasher...
same. To see the extent of the problem I drained the attic tank, and
there was a thick brown sludgy mess at the bottom also. I wonder is it
due to a mains leak somewhere? Any help/advice on this would be great.
I'm on a mains water supply with strict regs... so I don't think this
should be happening?!

We had exactly the same problem in our house. It was certainly soil
rather than any other sort of crud. A few months later, a water leak was
discovered in the mains supply under our drive.

It was explained to us that although the water was at a fairly high
pressure, it escaped into the soil which pretty well withstood the water
pressure, but a cavity was formed and water would swirl around in that
cavity at something like mains pressure and find it's way back into the
pipe at times when the pipe pressure momentarily dipped - flushing the
loo etc. At that instant, the pressure in the cavity was equal or
greater than in the pipe and water and soil could flow into the pipe.

When the pipe was fixed the soil in the water never came back.

I've no idea if this explanation is reliable, but it sounds reasonably
plausible.




How serious was your problem i.e. was your actual drinking water
running brown, because ours isn't, though there is a definite yellowy
colour to it. How did the council/water company fix it? Did they have
to dig up your whole driveway?

Bump

[Roly]

None wrote:


How serious was your problem i.e. was your actual drinking water
running brown, because ours isn't, though there is a definite yellowy
colour to it. How did the council/water company fix it? Did they have
to dig up your whole driveway?

We don't really know how long it had been going on for before we
detected it. We would occasionally spot bits of grit in a bowl or the
sink when you wouldn't expect there to be any, but we did note that a
lot had built up in the washing machine filter, trapped by the fluff
that accululates there. It looked quite different to how it normally
did, but even then didn't think anything of it.

The big problem came when the bath became very slow to fill and
eventually we discovered that the cold water pipe to the tap was a long,
horizontal run and it had mostly clogged up with sediment and was hardly
letting water through.

At that point we started to wonder where the contamination was coming
from. I fitted a particle filter just after the house stop cock and it
soon became obvious that the muck was coming in from the mains.

Once the pipe was fixed, the filter never again trapped any significant
amount of muck.

[Roly]

Roly wrote:

None wrote:


How serious was your problem i.e. was your actual drinking water
running brown, because ours isn't, though there is a definite yellowy
colour to it. How did the council/water company fix it? Did they have
to dig up your whole driveway?

We don't really know how long it had been going on for before we
detected it. We would occasionally spot bits of grit in a bowl or the
sink when you wouldn't expect there to be any, but we did note that a
lot had built up in the washing machine filter, trapped by the fluff
that accululates there. It looked quite different to how it normally
did, but even then didn't think anything of it.

The big problem came when the bath became very slow to fill and
eventually we discovered that the cold water pipe to the tap was a long,
horizontal run and it had mostly clogged up with sediment and was hardly
letting water through.

At that point we started to wonder where the contamination was coming
from. I fitted a particle filter just after the house stop cock and it
soon became obvious that the muck was coming in from the mains.

Once the pipe was fixed, the filter never again trapped any significant
amount of muck.

I should have added that the pipe was replaced by only digging up two
small bits of the drive. The job was done while I was out, so I didn't
see how they did it, but they dug a small hole near the stop cock in the
pavement and a small hole where the water pipe enters the house, but the
forty feet or so between those two points wasn't disturbed.

[Dave Fawthrop]

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 01:39:11 GMT, (Roly) wrote:


| Once the pipe was fixed, the filter never again trapped any significant
| amount of muck.
|
|I should have added that the pipe was replaced by only digging up two
|small bits of the drive. The job was done while I was out, so I didn't
|see how they did it, but they dug a small hole near the stop cock in the
|pavement and a small hole where the water pipe enters the house, but the
|forty feet or so between those two points wasn't disturbed.

I watched the gas people installing a new gas mail using the same technique
for our house. Dig two small holes. Put a mole, (a long thin, air
powered, thing which goes bang bang, bang), heading in the right direction
in one, drilling a tunnel between the two holes. Draw a plastic pipe after
it.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.