Hi there,

I bought a conservatory from Camelot Conservatories based in Kent/Essex
6 months ago (please be advised never to use this company as you will
soon see!). Anyway I desperately need some advice. The conservatory is
leaking from the roof, in several places that seems to run in from the
joins in the roof panels. The roof is poly-carbonate with 2 skylights
in it. The company do not give a sh!t whether our roof gets fixed - all
they do is send some idiot round (12 times now!) with a mastic gun who
applies even more silicon but this is not solving the issue.

What we need is what can we do about this. Can we force them to fix the
issue - I do not really want to take legal action due to the obvious
costs we will incur, however we still do not have a floor or furniture
down as we never know when the next leak will develop

Also any idea on what needs to actually be done to fix the roof?
Initially we thought the panels might be too small but we are not sure?
Does anyone else have this problem or has solved something like this??

Thanks for your help,
Rob

On 2006-10-14 09:02:14 +0100, "Rob" said:

Hi there,

I bought a conservatory from Camelot Conservatories based in Kent/Essex
6 months ago (please be advised never to use this company as you will
soon see!). Anyway I desperately need some advice. The conservatory is
leaking from the roof, in several places that seems to run in from the
joins in the roof panels. The roof is poly-carbonate with 2 skylights
in it. The company do not give a sh!t whether our roof gets fixed - all
they do is send some idiot round (12 times now!) with a mastic gun who
applies even more silicon but this is not solving the issue.

What we need is what can we do about this. Can we force them to fix the
issue - I do not really want to take legal action due to the obvious
costs we will incur, however we still do not have a floor or furniture
down as we never know when the next leak will develop

Also any idea on what needs to actually be done to fix the roof?
Initially we thought the panels might be too small but we are not sure?
Does anyone else have this problem or has solved something like this??

Thanks for your help,
Rob

A few questions:

- Did you buy the conservatory using any form of credit vehicle - eg
credit card or finance agreement?

- Have you paid all of the money to the supplier?

- Have you written to the supplier about the problems?


There are several steps that you can take:

Firstly, it is important to begin to make sure that there is a
documentation trail. This means putting or confirming all discussions
with the company in writing and sending them via Special Delivery
(about £4 at the post office). Keep the receipts so that you can
prove later that letters were delivered if need be. This may also be
noticed by the company as your meaning business, but may not be based
on the history so far.

Take photographs of the problem showing water coming through the roof
and on the floor. Include these with the letter.

Ask them to provide a proper and permanent solution, asking for their
proposal on how they will do this within 14 working days and insisting
that works are completed to your satisfaction within 30 days.
Indicate that unless this is done, you will take the necessary "further
steps" - no need to specifiy that, they can take their own hint.

If you have bought the conservatory using credit card or finance
vehicle, in full or part, then contact that company, telling them of
the problems. Many have departments who will handle this type of
complaint with the supplier - the lender is jointly liable with the
supplier under the Consumer Credit Act. They would typically rather
have a resolution than to be swept into litigation.
However, don't withhold from making payments during any dispute because
this may violate the credit agreement and affect your credit rating.
You don't need to withhold payment to secure your rights anyway.

If there is still money directly owing to the conservatory company by
you, then you could withhold it and include in your letter that you are
doing so until they resolve the problems to your satisfaction. This
might prompt them to do nothing and write it off or to threaten legal
action against you. That's absolutely fine because they will then be
receiving legal advice at their cost which will indicate to them that
their position is weak. It is. On your side, all you need to do is
to document what is wrong to their solicitors with copies of all
correspondence and photographs. That will also indicate to said
solicitor that you are not a push over. I used this technique
myself quite successfully following a conservatory construction where
the contractor had made some collateral damage to the property.

The thing *not* to do is to attempt repairs yourself or to use a third
party to do so. This would muddy the waters and allow the supplier to
wriggle.

Ultimately you may be faced with the choice of writing off the problem
and spending money elsewhere to get it fixed or to take legal action to
force the company to fix the problem properly or settle financially.

In terms of what is likely to be wrong, it is going to be one of a few things:

- The design of the roof solution isn't fit for purpose and will
always/often leak
- Manufacturing defects of the components
- Pieces left out (e.g. seals) during fitting
- Pieces fitted incorrectly
- Pieces wrongly sized
- Sealers not used when and where they should have been e.g. during
fitting of the roof panels

Take your choice from the above. If the conservatory was a cheap one
then design/manufacturing are candidates. the practical fix is
probably that the roof needs to be taken off and properly redone,
possibly with new materials. You could also try to identify who the
manufacturer is. Some checking might reveal whether they have problems
in general. However, don't bring them or allow the supplier to bring
them into play. Your contract is with the supplier and installer.


In a legal action, tests of reasonableness are applied. For example,
if you buy a very low end product and it breaks just outside the
warranty you would not get as much of a consideration in compensation
as if it were a high end one. The court is more likely to take the
view that a higher end product should be better and last longer than a
cheap one.

However, there are basic issues for fitness for purpose here. Nobody
would hold it reasonable that a conservatory would be leaking after
installation or in six months, regardless of how cheap it is.

It's completely unreasonable that 12 visits should have been made to
fix this. Are the leaks always in the same places? Three might be
considered reasonable.

Ultimately you will be faced with some tough decisions:

- Pursue the supplier with legal action. Take legal advice and I am
fairly certain that you will find that you have a strong position.
Spending £100-150 with a solicitor or contacting Citizen's Advice is
worthwhile. The outcome would either likely be that the supplier is
required to fix the problem properly or to pay you compensation to get
it fixed.

- Find another supplier to fix the problem and take the cost yourself.
That will be more expensive than the first option and will probably
prevent you taking legal action against the original supplier if it
fails.

- Attempt your own fix. This is apparently the cheapest. However,
you don't know what the issue is and have no guarantee of success.
Again it would weaken your position to sue the supplier.

- Write the whole exercise off and pull the thing down or just use it
to grow plants rather than as habitable space.


We can conjecture about what the problems might actually be. Unless
you were going to do a DIY fix, it doesn't really matter.

If you look at the whole thing on a risk/return basis, taking legal
action if you can't get quick resolution to your satisfaction from the
supplier voluntarily (and I suspect you might not) is by far the best
option.

You have been far more than reasonable in allowing 12 visits. If
their approach was going to work it would have done so long before now.

The absolute worst case scenario in taking legal action is that you
lose and have to pay all of your own and the supplier's costs. That
is very unlikely in the scenario you describe. A visit to a solicitor
plus a letter or two to the supplier has a fair chance of getting them
to fix the problem properly if it is possible. If, in fact, the
design and manufacture is defective, then it could well take pursuing
them in the courts to completely replace the whole thing or give you
most of your money back (perhaps less the cost of the base works).

Either way, after you have done the next round of letters, a visit to
solicitor is the lowest cost next step, doesn't prejudice your position
and gives you a view on how likely you are to succeed if you pursue the
vendor in the courts.

Given the circumstances, I wouldn't entertain any of the options on
logical, financial and even moral grounds.

"Rob" wrote:
Hi there,

I bought a conservatory from Camelot Conservatories based in Kent/Essex
6 months ago (please be advised never to use this company as you will
soon see!). Anyway I desperately need some advice. The conservatory is
leaking from the roof, in several places that seems to run in from the
joins in the roof panels. The roof is poly-carbonate with 2 skylights
in it. The company do not give a sh!t whether our roof gets fixed - all
they do is send some idiot round (12 times now!) with a mastic gun who
applies even more silicon but this is not solving the issue.

What we need is what can we do about this. Can we force them to fix the
issue - I do not really want to take legal action due to the obvious
costs we will incur, however we still do not have a floor or furniture
down as we never know when the next leak will develop

Also any idea on what needs to actually be done to fix the roof?
Initially we thought the panels might be too small but we are not sure?
Does anyone else have this problem or has solved something like this??

Thanks for your help,
Rob

A few suggestions: a letter of complaint to the managing director of Camelot
Conservatories, detailing all the leaks and their ineffective attempts to
repair, followed by a meeting to insist on proper repair including
replacement of roof panels if necessary; advice from Citizens Advice and
Trading Standards; estimates for repairs from conservatory repair companies;
free initial interview with a solicitor to discuss options; consider small
claims court route. If you are not willing to get very tough and assertive
in order to get this company to make the roof watertight you might as well
just get another company in to repair the roof and then forget about it.
Life's short.

Hi Andy,

As a professional in the industry, I am all too aware of the
complexities and problems when dealing with companies who are not
providing an 'All inclusive Manufacturers Warranty'. Essentially the
most frequently offered form of "Guarantee" is an insurance backed
version. This means that, apart from the get out clauses, that you'll
probably end up dealing with a company completely different to that
which carried out the installation i.e. three quotes and the least
expensive one gets the job!

I realise that it's a bit late now, but many Insurance Backed
Guarantees include a clause that indicates Leaks are expected in a
conservatory and therefore are not covered.

Personally, I would consider legal action or at the very least getting
trading standards involved. You may also might consider checking the
(if any) professional and impartial organisations that the installer is
registered with. These include the GGF, FENSA, The Conservatory
Association, The BBA, The BSI etc. Perhaps the installer may consider
more appropriate assistance with the intervention of one or more of the
above!

To anyone else considering a Conservatory, choose one that is properly
qualified, has had many years in the industry, manufactures its own
product (this does not mean assembles someone else's!), guarantees
its own work and product, and has at least registered with the GGF,
FENSA, BBA & BSI for some peace of mind.

Hope all goes well Andy, Good Luck