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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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RCD trips while working on dead circuit
"David" wrote in message om... Hi Probably bad practice, but when I'm working on the wiring in my house, rather than switching off the entire supply and incurring the wrath of family who apparently can't function without electricity, I tend to just switch off the circuit I'm working on. What puzzles me, however, is that if I happen to short out the earth/live/neutral wires (not sure which) in the dead circuit I'm working on, the RCD trips the whole house off. Why is this? Is there some infinitesimal residual current in the earth? Does it mean there's a fault in my system somewhere? By "switch off the circuit" you will mean removing the fuse/switching off the live feed only. In this situation the neutral is still connected. The neutral line will have a few volts on it which is a natural feature of the generation and distribution system. Shorting neutral to earth (whether or not the live is isolated) will cause a mismatch between the current in the live side and the neutral side of the supply to the house. This mismatch (which can only be accounted for by a leak to earth (either direct or via a higher resistance path, such as you) is what the RCD detects. Yes, it is very annoying when you are wiring in the loft! You can only get round this by isolating the live and disconnecting the neutral feed to that circuit as well. -- Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not) |
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RCD trips while working on dead circuit
In uk.d-i-y, David wrote:
What puzzles me, however, is that if I happen to short out the earth/live/neutral wires (not sure which) in the dead circuit I'm working on, the RCD trips the whole house off. Why is this? Is there some infinitesimal residual current in the earth? Does it mean there's a fault in my system somewhere? No, it means the RCD is working fine. Your MCB/fuse only isolated the live ("phase") wire. E and N are still connected back with all the Es and all the Ns on the load side of your RCD. The RCD's job is to make sure that (to within 30mA or whatever it's rating is) all of the current which goes out its L side is coming back up its N side. When you join the N to the E, you provide an alternative path back for some of the N current, and the RCD pops because you're out of balance. Probably bad practice, but when I'm working on the wiring in my house, rather than switching off the entire supply and incurring the wrath of family who apparently can't function without electricity, I tend to just switch off the circuit I'm working on. The above explanation shows you one reason why relying on the MCB alone for isolation is less than best practice. You'd do better to switch off the whole supply, physically remove the L and N conductors from the MCB and the N busbar respectively - put the bare ends out of harm's way into a bit of connector block, or for best paranoia into spare ways in the earth block. Then you can restore power to the rest of the installation, and work at leisure on the properly-isolated (or even earthed) final circuit you just disconnected. The cautious among us when first working on a circuit we haven't installed ourselves might even measure the voltage from the allegedly isolated N and L conductors to earth before grounding them, and/or do the temporary-connection-to-earth through a low-value glass fuse (so you could see it blow) or an incandescent bulb (so you could see it glow) Just In Case some eejut has cross-wired the final circuits; but that's taking caution a bit too far, IMHO. Me, I isolate the Ns and Ls, put them into free-waving terminal block, and then test AGAIN at the working position that there is no voltage between earth and the allegedly isolated Ls and Ns. 'Course, if you use a digital multimeter, you can be misled by very-low-current induced voltages - connecting a suitable resistance in parallel with the meter will soon sort out the difference between a tiny capactively-and-or-inductively coupled current, and a Nasty cross-connection. HTH, Stefek |
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RCD trips while working on dead circuit
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RCD trips while working on dead circuit
wrote in message ... In uk.d-i-y, David wrote: So... if I was to switch off just the circuit I want to work on, THEN confirm with a meter that there is no voltage across the N, L and E conductors... under what circumstances could that still put me at risk? There's little likelihood of things going awry in a normal, properly installed, domestic installation. But unlucky things can happen if a bodger has been in the house before you. (Bodgers - not the woodworking sort! - come in both d-i-y and nominally professional flavours, even on new builds. Rare, but most unfunny.) There'd have to be a fault in the installation to put you at risk - for instance, if some wazzock has "picked up" the N from your circuit "because it was convenient", it could float up to the live potential - and it might be switched off when you test, then when some other member of the family turns on the switch for the outside security light/understairs-cupboard/whatever - oops, ouch, or worse. And, yes, it does happen - it happened to me! The wazzock was the previous owner who fitted a two-way switch for the landing light. Clearly unaware of the existence of 3-core +E, he had a bit of a challenge when it came to wiring it up using 2-core+E. Then he had a bright idea. "I'll use the live from the upstairs lighting circuit for the upstairs switch and the one from the downstairs circuit (which was present in the downstaitrs switch box) for the downstairs switch and connect them together with the 2-core and earth". Hmmmmm. Muggins comes along and wants to work on a bedroom light. Pulls fuse, all OK, happy working away. SWMBO, in all innocence, turns on landing light. Disconnected neutral I am hanging onto rises to live potential through landing bulb which glows fitfully due to current through my sweaty fingers, while brain thinks WTF!? Guilty cable also buried in plaster with no conduit - hooray! Yes, it is wired correctly now. As they say in the X-files, "trust no-one". -- Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not) |
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