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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

I will shortly have a field shelter, 12"x24" with an apex roof, for my two
horses. Running mains electic to the shelter is not practical just at the
moment, so I want to rig up a 12 volt system using the 85Ah leisure battery
that I currently also use to power the electric fence.

I seem to recall having similar setup to this when I was a kid, so I think
it works, but what I was planning was this:
a) Purchase 2 car headlamps and fis them in the apex of the roof at each
end, which should hopefully give sufficient light coverage.
b) Utilise the sidelight and headlight circuits so I can control the
lightling level. Maybe even the full beam for emergencies?!
c) Use a car headlamp switch (one of the dial ones not an indicator stalk
one!) to control the lights as this will also look quite groovy. Poss even
a Vaux one so I can pull it for an external light outside the shelter?

Questions:
1) Are there any bits of the plan that are a bit blonde?
2) Does the -ve connection on the headlamp come back to the battery, or to
ground, in which case do I also ground the -ve on the battery, and can I use
the same earthing rod?
3) Are there any bits of the circuit I'm missing? No relays or anything
for the switch? Do I really want to be fusing the circuits?
4) Do I need 12v wire or will 230v cabling do?

TIA for any help!

xena xx



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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

xena wrote:

I will shortly have a field shelter, 12"x24" with an apex roof, for my two
horses. Running mains electic to the shelter is not practical just at the
moment, so I want to rig up a 12 volt system using the 85Ah leisure battery
that I currently also use to power the electric fence.

I seem to recall having similar setup to this when I was a kid, so I think
it works, but what I was planning was this:
a) Purchase 2 car headlamps and fis them in the apex of the roof at each
end, which should hopefully give sufficient light coverage.
b) Utilise the sidelight and headlight circuits so I can control the
lightling level. Maybe even the full beam for emergencies?!
c) Use a car headlamp switch (one of the dial ones not an indicator stalk
one!) to control the lights as this will also look quite groovy. Poss even
a Vaux one so I can pull it for an external light outside the shelter?


Questions:


1) Are there any bits of the plan that are a bit blonde?


I'd seriously consider using 12V fluorescent lights rather than car
headlights. You will get a better spread of light and as they draw far
less current, you will get a longer running time between battery
charges.

You will also need to get some substantial cable to wire up the lights
as the voltage drop can be quite significant on a 12V circuit.

A caravan shop or boat chandlers is a good place to buy the
lights.They should also be able to supply the appropriate cable and
fuses.

2) Does the -ve connection on the headlamp come back to the battery, or to
ground, in which case do I also ground the -ve on the battery, and can I use
the same earthing rod?


To the battery. There's no need to earth a 12V circuit.

3) Are there any bits of the circuit I'm missing? No relays or anything
for the switch? Do I really want to be fusing the circuits?


You definitely need to fuse the circuit. Ideally you should do this as
close to the battery as possible. You can get high currents from a
leisure battery under fault conditions.

If you go for the fluorescent lights then a simple switch will be
enough.

4) Do I need 12v wire or will 230v cabling do?


It's the cross-sectional area of the cable that matters here, rather
than the strength of the insulation. So as long as the wire is thick
enough you can use anything with a rating of 12V or above.

Don't forget to put all the electrics well out of the way of your
horses.

John
--
John White,
Electrical Contractor
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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

"John White"
xena wrote:

I will shortly have a field shelter, 12"x24" with an apex roof, for my two
horses. Running mains electic to the shelter is not practical just at the
moment, so I want to rig up a 12 volt system using the 85Ah leisure
battery
that I currently also use to power the electric fence.


I'd seriously consider using 12V fluorescent lights rather than car
headlights. You will get a better spread of light and as they draw far
less current, you will get a longer running time between battery
charges.
snip lots of comprehensive reply


Wow, thanks for that detailed response! I have just looked further into
your argument for fluorescent lights and have seen about the relative lumens
output of fluorescent vs halogen, so definitely something to consider there.
Have to price them up.

4) Do I need 12v wire or will 230v cabling do?


It's the cross-sectional area of the cable that matters here, rather
than the strength of the insulation. So as long as the wire is thick
enough you can use anything with a rating of 12V or above.


Hmm, ok, well I have loads of 230v cabling. I have 2 core stranded flex,
loads of 1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2, and some 4.0mm2 cable too. Would the solid core
stuff do the job then? Ideally the 2.5mm2 as I have reams of that stuff?

Don't forget to put all the electrics well out of the way of your
horses.


:-D Harley is an inquisitive, nibbly little sod sometimes...

John


Thanks again John )



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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

I dont think that car headlight bulbs incorporate the side lights.
Anyway the light output from a aide lamp is pretty dim whereas the
headlamp bulbs will give a lot of glare.

I think you would be better using low voltage fluorescents like these

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search2/b...questid=235723
or
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search2/b...questid=236399

You get a lot more light per ampere-hour so you won't need to charge
the battery as often. Put four of those along the ridge or along the
wall controlled by a master switch and use the switches on the lamps to
control how many you have on at a time.

You could still have a car headlamp bulb wired up with a seperate
switch for emergency use

Any sort of switch rated at over 5amps would suit. I would use any
ordinary mains switch with a surface mount box - readily available in
single or double.

The negative wires can go straight back to the battery, no need for an
earth rod. Use ordinary mains flex if you want, but make sure it is
thick enough for the current it has to carry. Fit a fuse in the
positive wire near the battery (an inline car fuse is handy) because a
battery can deliver a lot of oomph into a short circuit and a stable
usually has a lot of combustable material about

Dave



xena wrote:
I will shortly have a field shelter, 12"x24" with an apex roof, for my two
horses. Running mains electic to the shelter is not practical just at the
moment, so I want to rig up a 12 volt system using the 85Ah leisure battery
that I currently also use to power the electric fence.

I seem to recall having similar setup to this when I was a kid, so I think
it works, but what I was planning was this:
a) Purchase 2 car headlamps and fis them in the apex of the roof at each
end, which should hopefully give sufficient light coverage.
b) Utilise the sidelight and headlight circuits so I can control the
lightling level. Maybe even the full beam for emergencies?!
c) Use a car headlamp switch (one of the dial ones not an indicator stalk
one!) to control the lights as this will also look quite groovy. Poss even
a Vaux one so I can pull it for an external light outside the shelter?

Questions:
1) Are there any bits of the plan that are a bit blonde?
2) Does the -ve connection on the headlamp come back to the battery, or to
ground, in which case do I also ground the -ve on the battery, and can I use
the same earthing rod?
3) Are there any bits of the circuit I'm missing? No relays or anything
for the switch? Do I really want to be fusing the circuits?
4) Do I need 12v wire or will 230v cabling do?

TIA for any help!

xena xx


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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

"dcbwhaley" wrote in message

I dont think that car headlight bulbs incorporate the side lights.
Anyway the light output from a aide lamp is pretty dim whereas the
headlamp bulbs will give a lot of glare.


Ok, ok, I've been soundly outvoted on the car lights idea g.
I've just been outbid on the ones I was eying up on ebay anyway, so never
mind!

I think you would be better using low voltage fluorescents like these

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search2/b...questid=235723
or
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search2/b...questid=236399



They're not as expensive as I was expecting actually - thanks for the links.
Are they about as big as you get though? I have some striplights in the
crumbly old caravan I use as a feed room and I've been less than impressed
with them, but they're probably as ancient as the caravan and I am running
them off a really knackered car battery, so maybe I will be pleasantly
suprised with some new lights and a tidy battery!

You get a lot more light per ampere-hour so you won't need to charge
the battery as often. Put four of those along the ridge or along the
wall controlled by a master switch and use the switches on the lamps to
control how many you have on at a time.

You could still have a car headlamp bulb wired up with a seperate
switch for emergency use

Any sort of switch rated at over 5amps would suit. I would use any
ordinary mains switch with a surface mount box - readily available in
single or double.


Yup, got a double weatherproof one of them.

The negative wires can go straight back to the battery, no need for an
earth rod. Use ordinary mains flex if you want, but make sure it is
thick enough for the current it has to carry. Fit a fuse in the
positive wire near the battery (an inline car fuse is handy) because a
battery can deliver a lot of oomph into a short circuit and a stable
usually has a lot of combustable material about


That's the second vote for fuses then so I'd better take heed!

The current wouldn't be anywhere near 13A anyway would it? More like about
5A if running 4 x 2 x 8w (64W) - soz, maths letting me down atm.

Thank you very much for your help.





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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

1.5mm^2 protected by a 10amp fuse will be safe. If you do fit a car
headlamp for emergency use a seperate wire and fuse for that circuit


xena wrote:
"dcbwhaley" wrote in message

I dont think that car headlight bulbs incorporate the side lights.
Anyway the light output from a aide lamp is pretty dim whereas the
headlamp bulbs will give a lot of glare.


Ok, ok, I've been soundly outvoted on the car lights idea g.
I've just been outbid on the ones I was eying up on ebay anyway, so never
mind!

I think you would be better using low voltage fluorescents like these

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search2/b...questid=235723
or
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search2/b...questid=236399



They're not as expensive as I was expecting actually - thanks for the links.
Are they about as big as you get though? I have some striplights in the
crumbly old caravan I use as a feed room and I've been less than impressed
with them, but they're probably as ancient as the caravan and I am running
them off a really knackered car battery, so maybe I will be pleasantly
suprised with some new lights and a tidy battery!

You get a lot more light per ampere-hour so you won't need to charge
the battery as often. Put four of those along the ridge or along the
wall controlled by a master switch and use the switches on the lamps to
control how many you have on at a time.

You could still have a car headlamp bulb wired up with a seperate
switch for emergency use

Any sort of switch rated at over 5amps would suit. I would use any
ordinary mains switch with a surface mount box - readily available in
single or double.


Yup, got a double weatherproof one of them.

The negative wires can go straight back to the battery, no need for an
earth rod. Use ordinary mains flex if you want, but make sure it is
thick enough for the current it has to carry. Fit a fuse in the
positive wire near the battery (an inline car fuse is handy) because a
battery can deliver a lot of oomph into a short circuit and a stable
usually has a lot of combustable material about


That's the second vote for fuses then so I'd better take heed!

The current wouldn't be anywhere near 13A anyway would it? More like about
5A if running 4 x 2 x 8w (64W) - soz, maths letting me down atm.

Thank you very much for your help.


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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

xena wrote:

They're not as expensive as I was expecting actually - thanks for the links.
Are they about as big as you get though? I have some striplights in the
crumbly old caravan I use as a feed room and I've been less than impressed
with them, but they're probably as ancient as the caravan and I am running
them off a really knackered car battery, so maybe I will be pleasantly
suprised with some new lights and a tidy battery!


Light output depends on power of the fittings. 8w would give very dim
lighting. If you have one dim + one bright fitting you can switch
whichever one on you need. A handheld light on flex would be a way to
use low power yet give you a worklight for high local light
availability. 8w isnt a lot but you could see properly under that when
its close to what youre looking at.


That's the second vote for fuses then so I'd better take heed!

The current wouldn't be anywhere near 13A anyway would it? More like about
5A if running 4 x 2 x 8w (64W) - soz, maths letting me down atm.


64w total is 6.3A, so you'd want something above that fusewise. I'd use
2.5mm rather than 1.5 cable, because less voltage drop means more
lighjt out, plus you get a system you can add more stuff onto later
without needing to rewire. So if youve got a load of 2.5, might as well
use it.


NT

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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

wrote in message
xena wrote:


If you have one dim + one bright fitting you can switch
whichever one on you need. A handheld light on flex would be a way to
use low power yet give you a worklight for high local light
availability.
snipped
I'd use
2.5mm rather than 1.5 cable, because less voltage drop means more
lighjt out, plus you get a system you can add more stuff onto later
without needing to rewire.


Thank you for your ideas. I have a lighting plan slowly coagulating in the
grey matter. Not a bad idea about the wanderlight. Might even have one
hiding in the garage now I come to think about it. Would be handy having
something like that hanging around in case one of the horses does something
stupid and we need a strong light to investigate.

If 2.5mm cable might have advantages over 1.5, I'll stick with that then.

Thank you everyone, once again. )



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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

Put 3 flus in. 2 on one switch, own fuse. 1 on one switch, seperate
fuse.
This way, if you get a fault on one circuit then you should still have
another working
circuit. Also you can then have 1, 2 or 3 lights on. Wire in 2.5mm^2.
Also have a look at CPC rechargeable floodlight. Lasts for hours and is
detachable from the base unit. It
can also be used to power other 12v appliances from it's built in ciggie
lighter socket. Well that's what I did for our field shelter, and it's
worked for years. and my missus is V V V picky when it comes to her
horses! Me?, she is not that bothered about!! HTH


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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

"Grumpy owd man" wrote in message

Also have a look at CPC rechargeable floodlight. Lasts for hours and is
detachable from the base unit. It
can also be used to power other 12v appliances from it's built in ciggie
lighter socket.


Cheers, just the bit extra I needed to spend to get free delivery on the
striplights :-/
The search brings up two:
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search2/b...questid=240765

I guess yours is the more expensive one (£40)? The top one is a tenner and
might do the trick - it's 6v and comes with a 12v adaptor.

Well that's what I did for our field shelter, and it's
worked for years. and my missus is V V V picky when it comes to her
horses! Me?, she is not that bothered about!! HTH


g I'm happy to have advice from someone who has done exactly what I'm
trying to do! Any other great tips and tricks you've found out? Like cheap
ways to avoid a quagmire in the winter?!

Cheers )





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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

"Owain" wrote in message
xena wrote:
4) Do I need 12v wire or will 230v cabling do?


2.5mm is good (using conventional ratings for mains installation use) at
up to about 20A, but that's only 240 W at 12V. Voltage drop will also be
high (you'll lose quite a lot of your energy in resistance in the wires)

And if you're using 5A switches you'll only get about 1 bulb per switch.
(I'm assuming ~55W bulbs)


Ok, I remember the calculations now P=V*I so I'll make sure I bear the
current in mind when I choose the bits.

Cheers.



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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:12:16 +0100, xena wrote:

I will shortly have a field shelter, 12"x24" with an apex roof, for my
two horses.


These are toy horses? One foot by two foot seems a bit small for real
ones. B-)

1) Are there any bits of the plan that are a bit blonde?


The size of the shelter?

Others have covered everything else and I'd also suggest 12v flourescent
over car headlights. You'll get nicer light for longer. I got an small
square all plastic (won't rust...) 12v flourescent lamp from CPC for the
garden shed. Produces as much light as at least a 60W mains bulb but
draws only an amp @ 12v.

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...sp?SKU=LA00362

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:12:16 +0100, xena wrote:

I will shortly have a field shelter, 12"x24" with an apex roof, for my
two horses.


These are toy horses? One foot by two foot seems a bit small for real
ones. B-)

1) Are there any bits of the plan that are a bit blonde?


The size of the shelter?


Was just checking you're all awake... :blush: I obviously wasn't D

Others have covered everything else and I'd also suggest 12v flourescent
over car headlights. You'll get nicer light for longer. I got an small
square all plastic (won't rust...) 12v flourescent lamp from CPC for the
garden shed. Produces as much light as at least a 60W mains bulb but
draws only an amp @ 12v.

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...sp?SKU=LA00362


You guys all got shares in CPC or something??!! Well at least I'll know
what to ask for for birthday and Christmas presents...

Ta for the advice but I'd rather go for fluorescent lights over flourescent,
might get a bit dusty... g
Seriously, a lot of it will come down to finances, I'll know what I can buy
after I've finished this flipping tax return!

Cheers everyone!



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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?


g I'm happy to have advice from someone who has done exactly what I'm
trying to do! Any other great tips and tricks you've found out? Like cheap
ways to avoid a quagmire in the winter?!

Cheers )


Plenty of sawdust [not shavings] and I bought the wife some F BIG
wellies [I don't do horses!!]
Shares in CPC? yep, that's me! Only down the road and I call in at
least once a week. They have just opened a bargain basement [callers
only] Got some 24" yard brushes for 25p each!!
Far better to deal with them face to face [if poss.] than over the phone
/ net. The lads on the trade counter are the most helpful of any of our
suppliers. You can even open packages and look at stuff prior to
deciding it is not what you want!!




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Seriously, a lot of it will come down to finances, I'll know what I can buy
after I've finished this flipping tax return!

Cost of a few lights is pretty small compared with the cost of
maintaining two horses. :-)



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Default Use car headlights for lighting field shelter?

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "xena"
saying something like:

If 2.5mm cable might have advantages over 1.5, I'll stick with that then.


You can always parallel it up if you've got scads of it.
--

Dave
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