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Reinstating old outbuildings - need planning permission?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 2nd 06, 08:54 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 61
Default Reinstating old outbuildings - need planning permission?

Hi all, hope somebody can advise. We're looking at buying a house in
mid-beds. It's an old, terraced property with a rear garden which used
to contain two brick outbuildings (now demolished).

The old foundations for the buildings are intact and the fireplace and
chimney for what must have been the old wash house are still there
(party wall with next door). I've got the drawings from
landregistryonline and, while the outbuildings are not shown on the
newer (1980) drawing, they do appear on the older (1955) one.

I'd like to re-instate the buildings, using the larger one as a
workshop and the smaller as a garden shed. I wouldn't be surprised to
find out that I'd need building control to sign off on the completed
work, but would I need planning consent for merely re-instating an
original feature of the property?

TIA
--
Rob

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  #2  
Old September 2nd 06, 11:21 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 723
Default Reinstating old outbuildings - need planning permission?

Rob Hamadi wrote:
Hi all, hope somebody can advise. We're looking at buying a house in
mid-beds. It's an old, terraced property with a rear garden which used
to contain two brick outbuildings (now demolished).

The old foundations for the buildings are intact and the fireplace and
chimney for what must have been the old wash house are still there
(party wall with next door). I've got the drawings from
landregistryonline and, while the outbuildings are not shown on the
newer (1980) drawing, they do appear on the older (1955) one.

I'd like to re-instate the buildings, using the larger one as a
workshop and the smaller as a garden shed. I wouldn't be surprised to
find out that I'd need building control to sign off on the completed
work, but would I need planning consent for merely re-instating an
original feature of the property?


The planners are very unlikely to allow reinstatement as of right just
because there are foundations. The only sure way to tell is to go and talk
to the planners. You will certainly need building regulations approval and
the existing foundations may well not be regarded as adequate.

Peter Crosland


  #3  
Old September 2nd 06, 03:19 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
dg
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Posts: 223
Default Reinstating old outbuildings - need planning permission?


Rob Hamadi wrote:
Hi all, hope somebody can advise. We're looking at buying a house in
mid-beds. It's an old, terraced property with a rear garden which used
to contain two brick outbuildings (now demolished).

The old foundations for the buildings are intact and the fireplace and
chimney for what must have been the old wash house are still there
(party wall with next door). I've got the drawings from
landregistryonline and, while the outbuildings are not shown on the
newer (1980) drawing, they do appear on the older (1955) one.

I'd like to re-instate the buildings, using the larger one as a
workshop and the smaller as a garden shed. I wouldn't be surprised to
find out that I'd need building control to sign off on the completed
work, but would I need planning consent for merely re-instating an
original feature of the property?

TIA
--
Rob


Unless a planning application was made for their demolition (unlikely),
then you will be able to reinstate them to their original dimensions,
design and appearance without a planning application and without
affecting the property's permitted development rights.

dg



dg

  #4  
Old September 4th 06, 06:20 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 61
Default Reinstating old outbuildings - need planning permission?

Peter Crosland wrote:
The planners are very unlikely to allow reinstatement as of right just
because there are foundations. The only sure way to tell is to go and talk
to the planners. You will certainly need building regulations approval and
the existing foundations may well not be regarded as adequate.


dg wrote:
Rob Hamadi wrote:
Unless a planning application was made for their demolition (unlikely),
then you will be able to reinstate them to their original dimensions,
design and appearance without a planning application and without
affecting the property's permitted development rights.


Thanks chaps. I'd expected to need BC approval and Peter's point about
the foundations one that hadn't occured to me (assuming I had to work
to current regs - one wall is still intact so perhaps I'd just be
repairing an existing structure?).

That said, I've had two replies and two very different answers. Guess
I'd better talk to the planners (who are somewhat less accessible than
the BC people). FWIW, I intend to use the outbuilding for its original
purpose, ie a laundry room.

--
Rob

  #5  
Old September 4th 06, 07:28 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 8,415
Default Reinstating old outbuildings - need planning permission?

Rob Hamadi wrote:

Thanks chaps. I'd expected to need BC approval and Peter's point about
the foundations one that hadn't occured to me (assuming I had to work
to current regs - one wall is still intact so perhaps I'd just be
repairing an existing structure?).

That said, I've had two replies and two very different answers. Guess
I'd better talk to the planners (who are somewhat less accessible than
the BC people). FWIW, I intend to use the outbuilding for its original
purpose, ie a laundry room.


Ask, but I wouldnt assume always a truthful answer.


NT

  #7  
Old September 6th 06, 04:57 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 759
Default Reinstating old outbuildings - need planning permission?

On 6 Sep 2006 08:45:46 -0700, "Rob Hamadi" wrote:

wrote:
| Ask, but I wouldnt assume always a truthful answer.
|
|Well, I called the planners and asked. The answer, predictably, was
|"maybe, maybe not". The officer suggested that I write in with photos,
|land registry plans etc, emphasising that there is an existing
|footprint. I said, let's wait and see if I end up buying the place
|first.

You can apply for planning consent on land you do not own. IANAL

A local listed building got planning consent based on 1850s foundations.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.
  #8  
Old September 6th 06, 08:31 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,194
Default Reinstating old outbuildings - need planning permission?

The message
from Owain contains these words:

AIUI existing footprint does not *entitle* you to rebuild, but
strengthens your application for permission.


What about the ins and outs of permitted development? ISTR that previous
extensions count provided they were made after a certain date so why
shouldn't a relatively recent demolition merely restore the previous
status quo?

Having written the above I went for a brief google and found on an
architects site:

"In this document any reference to the volume of the house means the
original as-built volume including any extension built before 1st July
1948 measured externally (in cubic metres). Extensions built after this
date do not count as part of the volume of the original house.
Extensions built as Permitted Development after 1st July 1948 count
cumulatively towards the maximum size permitted."

I read that as including any demolished part but the draftsman could of
course not have thought that far ahead and in any case it is not an
official site.



--
Roger Chapman
  #9  
Old September 6th 06, 09:18 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 61
Default Reinstating old outbuildings - need planning permission?

Roger wrote:
Having written the above I went for a brief google and found on an
architects site:

"In this document any reference to the volume of the house means the
original as-built volume including any extension built before 1st July
1948 measured externally (in cubic metres). Extensions built after this
date do not count as part of the volume of the original house.
Extensions built as Permitted Development after 1st July 1948 count
cumulatively towards the maximum size permitted."

I read that as including any demolished part but the draftsman could of
course not have thought that far ahead and in any case it is not an
official site.


I followed your example and my googling turned up the London Borough of
Waltham Forest, who have a nifty step by step householder's guide to
permitted development at:
http://www.lbwf.gov.uk/index/environ...age2bguide.htm

Three important definitions given there a
# The term dwellinghouse is used to mean the house as it is before the
development is carried out. It does not include any separate buildings
such as a detached garage, even if built with the house.
# The term original dwellinghouse is used to mean the house as it was
first built or its size on 1st July 1948, if it was built before that
date. It does not include any separate buildings such as a detached
garage, even if built with the house.
# The term resulting building is used and means the original
dwellinghouse PLUS any extensions added since 1st July 1948 PLUS any
buildings bigger than 10 cubic metres, which are closer than 5 metres
from the dwellinghouse and are within your garden PLUS the proposed
extension/building.

So it seems that the outbuildings wouldn't have counted as part of the
original volume anyway, even if built as part of the original
development, but if built after 1948 would need to be counted as part
of the final volume.

After punching in all the details, the site gave the following advice:

Your proposals will be permitted development provided:

* the resulting building does not exceed the original dwellinghouse
PLUS 50 cubic metres or 10% of its volume, whichever is the greater
(subject to a maximum addition of 115 cubic metres);
* any part of the building which is enlarged, improved or altered
is not closer to a highway than the original dwellinghouse, unless it
will be at least 20 metres from the highway;
* the part of the building which is enlarged, improved or altered
is not higher than the height of the highest part of the roof of the
original dwellinghouse;
* the part of the building which is enlarged, improved or altered
is not more than 4 metres in height and is within 2 metres of the
boundary of the garden of the dwellinghouse (this does not apply to the
insertion, enlargement, improvement or other alteration of a window in
an existing wall); and
* not more than half the area of your garden (excluding the area of
the original dwellinghouse) is covered by buildings.

If I'm reading this correctly, then I reckon I'll be OK for permitted
development. Bloody useful tool from LBWF!
--
Rob

 




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