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[email protected] August 29th 06 04:27 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
Hi list!

I'm interested in putting gravel down to replace the grass in my small
front garden, mostly to reduce maintenance (terrace house, so to mow it
I have to drag the mower through the house). Would I be right in saying
the job is roughly:

1) dig out existing topsoil down six inches or so
2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds
3) get gravel delivered from local builders yard
4) haul gravel up onto garden (it's about 2 feet above ground level, so
I think this necessitates a 'barrow and has to be done by hand) and
spread it out with a rake.

The garden is quite small -- about 12ftx8ft, or thereabouts. The guy in
the local builder's yard reckoned a half-ton of chippings, quite chunky
ones (10-15mm or so, by eye). Does the amount seem about right to
everyone?

What about compacting, either the earth underneath or the gravel once
laid? This garden won't be walked on often or driven on, so is
compaction necessary?

Finally, costs. Seems like the DIY approach will be pretty cheap -- a
decent shovel and barrow, £10 or so for the impermeable layer, and
about £35 for the chippings. Have I missed something off the list? And
does anyone have any idea roughly what it would be cost to have the job
done by a professional? I've rung a half-dozen firms but none of them
are answering the phone.

Any help greatfully received!


Cuprager August 29th 06 04:33 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
wrote:
Hi list!

I'm interested in putting gravel down to replace the grass in my small
front garden, mostly to reduce maintenance (terrace house, so to mow it
I have to drag the mower through the house). Would I be right in saying
the job is roughly:

1) dig out existing topsoil down six inches or so
2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds
3) get gravel delivered from local builders yard
4) haul gravel up onto garden (it's about 2 feet above ground level, so
I think this necessitates a 'barrow and has to be done by hand) and
spread it out with a rake.

The garden is quite small -- about 12ftx8ft, or thereabouts. The guy in
the local builder's yard reckoned a half-ton of chippings, quite chunky
ones (10-15mm or so, by eye). Does the amount seem about right to
everyone?

What about compacting, either the earth underneath or the gravel once
laid? This garden won't be walked on often or driven on, so is
compaction necessary?

Finally, costs. Seems like the DIY approach will be pretty cheap -- a
decent shovel and barrow, £10 or so for the impermeable layer, and
about £35 for the chippings. Have I missed something off the list? And
does anyone have any idea roughly what it would be cost to have the job
done by a professional? I've rung a half-dozen firms but none of them
are answering the phone.

Any help greatfully received!

You could probably get the delivery driver to postion the ton bag of
chips over where you want them and then you could slash the bottom of
the bag that they are being delivered in and voila - a ton (or half)
chips right where you intend them to be! Then just rake them about a bit...

MikeH August 29th 06 04:56 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 

wrote:
[snip]
2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds

[snip]

Don't you want a semi-permeable barrier? It stops weeds growing but
allows drainage.

If you put down an impermeable barrier you'll get puddles unless you
arrange enough slope to ensure rainwater can run off.

Mike


Bookworm August 29th 06 04:59 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
wrote:

2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds


It is best to use woven Polypropylene sheet. It allows water through
but weeds will not come through, (though they sometimes grow in the
gravel).


[email protected] August 29th 06 05:04 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
Park your car to keep a space, so that you can be certain the truck can
get to the best position when it arrives. Tell the delivery driver how
impressed you'll be if he can swing the semi-bulk bag into the middle
of your ex-lawn.


Phil Anthropist August 29th 06 05:13 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
wrote:
Hi list!

I'm interested in putting gravel down to replace the grass in my small
front garden, mostly to reduce maintenance (terrace house, so to mow it
I have to drag the mower through the house). Would I be right in saying
the job is roughly:

1) dig out existing topsoil down six inches or so
2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds
3) get gravel delivered from local builders yard
4) haul gravel up onto garden (it's about 2 feet above ground level, so
I think this necessitates a 'barrow and has to be done by hand) and
spread it out with a rake.

The garden is quite small -- about 12ftx8ft, or thereabouts. The guy in
the local builder's yard reckoned a half-ton of chippings, quite chunky
ones (10-15mm or so, by eye). Does the amount seem about right to
everyone?

What about compacting, either the earth underneath or the gravel once
laid? This garden won't be walked on often or driven on, so is
compaction necessary?

Finally, costs. Seems like the DIY approach will be pretty cheap -- a
decent shovel and barrow, £10 or so for the impermeable layer, and
about £35 for the chippings. Have I missed something off the list? And
does anyone have any idea roughly what it would be cost to have the job
done by a professional? I've rung a half-dozen firms but none of them
are answering the phone.

Any help greatfully received!
[==================]

A couple of my neighbours have done this. One didn't use a plastic or
another membrane, and one used black butyl fish pond liner. Neither have any
weeds growing through. I have also seen it done with bark chippings instead
of gravel, which is much lighter to spread about. Again, no weeds have come
through. A lot of parks departments use bark chippings to avoid weeding in
flower beds.



[email protected] August 29th 06 05:18 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
Cuprager wrote:
You could probably get the delivery driver to postion the ton bag of
chips over where you want them and then you could slash the bottom of
the bag that they are being delivered in and voila - a ton (or half)
chips right where you intend them to be! Then just rake them about a bit...


Aye, that'd be ideal. Might not work though! The garden is about 3 feet
above street level, so I'm not sure if we'll be able to deliver them
straight onto it. To make matters worse, the driveway that runs
alongside that garden is quite sloped (3 feet vertical climb in about
16 feet of horizontal distance) so unsuitable for tipping onto. I have
the horrible idea he'll have to deliver onto the street and we'll move
the chippings by hand -- probably the hardest part of the whole job.


[email protected] August 29th 06 05:19 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
MikeH wrote:
wrote:
[snip]
2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds

[snip]

Don't you want a semi-permeable barrier? It stops weeds growing but
allows drainage.


D'oh, yes, that is of course what I mean. Usefully, the Terram factory
is only a few miles from my house; I wonder if they have a factory
shop...


Bookworm August 29th 06 05:59 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
Phil Anthropist wrote:
wrote:
Hi list!



A couple of my neighbours have done this. One didn't use a plastic or
another membrane, and one used black butyl fish pond liner. Neither have any
weeds growing through. I have also seen it done with bark chippings instead
of gravel, which is much lighter to spread about. Again, no weeds have come
through. A lot of parks departments use bark chippings to avoid weeding in
flower beds.


For heavens sake dont use Bark Chippings. They are APITA. They attract
woodlice by the million. They rot down and need replacing. When the
wind blows the top ones dry off and blow everywhere.

Bark Chippings OK in local Parks and Gardens. **** bad news in front
gardens. I know from experience.


John Rumm August 29th 06 06:15 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
wrote:

I'm interested in putting gravel down to replace the grass in my small
front garden, mostly to reduce maintenance (terrace house, so to mow it
I have to drag the mower through the house). Would I be right in saying
the job is roughly:

1) dig out existing topsoil down six inches or so


Yup - only not that deep.

2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds


No, absolutely not! You will get waterlogging etc.

If you want a membrane then you need a proper geofabric. The purpose of
this is not to stop weeds, but to prevent the sub base from
subliminating into the soil.

3) get gravel delivered from local builders yard


Yup

4) haul gravel up onto garden (it's about 2 feet above ground level, so
I think this necessitates a 'barrow and has to be done by hand) and
spread it out with a rake.


A builders merchant ought to be able to deliver into the garden as long
as it is not too far from the road (had them do this for me recently -
over a 6' wall at about 5m from the lorry - it was just on the limit of
their hi-ab).

The garden is quite small -- about 12ftx8ft, or thereabouts. The guy in
the local builder's yard reckoned a half-ton of chippings, quite chunky
ones (10-15mm or so, by eye). Does the amount seem about right to
everyone?


The volumes don't add up. That is about 9 sq m in area. If you are
digging down six inches, you are removing about 1.3 cubic m of soil
which would require over two tonnes of gravel to fill.

You have a couple of options here - the "built to last" approach, or the
"quick and cheap" decorative solution.

If you want a professional quality result then I would go for 2" of
compacted type 1 MoT granular sub base (about 0.5 cubic m) first - it is
cheap and can be compacted down with a plate vibrator. That will stay
put and not sag any further, and will also prevent any weeds coming up
through the base. It would also take foot traffic without sagging and
remain permeable to save causing drainage problems. Then finish it with
2" of your choice of decorative gravel.

If you want the cheap and chearful option, then go for a geofabric with
2" of uncompacted decorative stuff on top. As long as you don't drive or
walk on it much it should stay put and not let the weeds through.

Note that with any gravel surface, if you let soil, or leaves or other
bio matter fall onto it, it will eventually support weed growth on the
top anyway. A garden blower or vacuum can be a good way of clearing
leaves without sucking up the gavel!

What about compacting, either the earth underneath or the gravel once
laid? This garden won't be walked on often or driven on, so is
compaction necessary?


It is worth it if you are using a sub base, but you can miss it out for
a "decorative only" finish. A small plate vibrator will probably cost
£25 - £40 to hire for a day and will do the job nicely.

Finally, costs. Seems like the DIY approach will be pretty cheap -- a
decent shovel and barrow, £10 or so for the impermeable layer, and
about £35 for the chippings. Have I missed something off the list? And


Probably more like £50 for the gravel once VAT and delivery is on top.
Don't forget a mini skip to take away the soil. If you need a cheap
source of type 1, ask the skip people if they can deliver it in the skip
- many can. It would most likely work out cheaper than to get it from
the builders merchant.

does anyone have any idea roughly what it would be cost to have the job
done by a professional? I've rung a half-dozen firms but none of them
are answering the phone.


£300 to £500 perhaps less if just going for the decorative finish.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd -
http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

nightjar August 29th 06 07:27 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 

wrote in message
ps.com...

1) dig out existing topsoil down six inches or so


If that is all gravel, it will be difficult to walk on. Lay a couple of
inches of well-compacted MOT sub-base and a couple of inches of gravel on
top of that.

1a) remove large volume of topsoil from site

2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds


As others have pointed out, semi-permeable membrane is the right stuff.

3) get gravel delivered from local builders yard
4) haul gravel up onto garden (it's about 2 feet above ground level, so
I think this necessitates a 'barrow and has to be done by hand) and
spread it out with a rake.


The driver should be able to dump the bag on your new gravel area.

The garden is quite small -- about 12ftx8ft, or thereabouts. The guy in
the local builder's yard reckoned a half-ton of chippings, quite chunky
ones (10-15mm or so, by eye). Does the amount seem about right to
everyone?


Doesn't sound enough to me. It took six tonnes to do a 3m radius circle and
some paths in my house to 50mm deep. It is also worth specifying 20mm grid
chippings. They are far less attractive to cats as a litter tray than
smaller sizes.

Colin Bignell



Colin Wilson August 29th 06 07:30 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
For heavens sake dont use Bark Chippings. They are APITA. They attract
woodlice by the million. They rot down and need replacing. When the
wind blows the top ones dry off and blow everywhere.


I have the entire back garden bark chipped - the birds love it...

Yes, they rot and need adding to on an annual basis, but our two dogs
probably scatter more than the wind blows...

Ours is very shallow (2" max in places) but it still does a very good
job at keeping weeds down generally.

Phil L August 29th 06 09:28 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
wrote:
Hi list!

I'm interested in putting gravel down to replace the grass in my small
front garden, mostly to reduce maintenance (terrace house, so to mow
it I have to drag the mower through the house). Would I be right in
saying the job is roughly:

1) dig out existing topsoil down six inches or so
2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds
3) get gravel delivered from local builders yard
4) haul gravel up onto garden (it's about 2 feet above ground level,
so I think this necessitates a 'barrow and has to be done by hand) and
spread it out with a rake.

The garden is quite small -- about 12ftx8ft, or thereabouts. The guy
in the local builder's yard reckoned a half-ton of chippings, quite
chunky ones (10-15mm or so, by eye). Does the amount seem about right
to everyone?

What about compacting, either the earth underneath or the gravel once
laid? This garden won't be walked on often or driven on, so is
compaction necessary?

Finally, costs. Seems like the DIY approach will be pretty cheap -- a
decent shovel and barrow, £10 or so for the impermeable layer, and
about £35 for the chippings. Have I missed something off the list? And
does anyone have any idea roughly what it would be cost to have the
job done by a professional? I've rung a half-dozen firms but none of
them are answering the phone.

Any help greatfully received!


No barrier will stop weeds because they grow from the top down not from
underneath, that is to say, seeds blow in and are delivered by birds and
take root, there will be enough dust, dead leaves and other debris under the
gravel for them to survive easily unless you use pathclear every 6 months,
in which case you don't need a weed barrier.

6 inches is way too deep, and if you do choose to go 6 inches, you will
require almost 2 tonnes (1 tonne covers 10m2 @ 4 inch deep)

Aside from the problems of gravel mixing with surrounding soil, or soil
coming up through the gravel, you seem to be making an awful lot of work
just to get rid of a bit of lawn, why not just lay paving flags over it and
put some planters on it? - as others have said, you will need a skip to get
rid of the soil (£120), 2 tonnes of whatever (£60) plus delivery.
If you lay flags on it you only need to remove the turf (about 2 inches
deep), these can be composted or someone may take them away if they want
them...
Twenty-four 2X2ft flags @ £3 each = £72, plus a few bags of sand and cement
at about £10, it should be finished in less than two days (DIY) and you'll
have a solid surface for walking on, putting ladders on etc and it's easily
kept clean.



John Anderton August 29th 06 11:56 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 18:27:54 +0100, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my
surname here.uk.com wrote:

. It is also worth specifying 20mm grid
chippings. They are far less attractive to cats as a litter tray than
smaller sizes.


Agreed. They also don't get picked up in the soles of your shoes and
walked into the house as much as the smaller stuff (nor get stuck in
car/bike tyres)

Cheers,

John


The Medway Handyman August 30th 06 12:20 AM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
wrote:
Hi list!

I'm interested in putting gravel down to replace the grass in my small
front garden, mostly to reduce maintenance (terrace house, so to mow
it I have to drag the mower through the house). Would I be right in
saying the job is roughly:

1) dig out existing topsoil down six inches or so


Dont bother, gravel right over it.

2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds


Use a decent weed control fabric.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/160172

3) get gravel delivered from local builders yard


Yup. In 1 Tonne bags. Go for 18mm gravel, it won't move about as much as
10mm.

4) haul gravel up onto garden (it's about 2 feet above ground level,
so I think this necessitates a 'barrow and has to be done by hand) and
spread it out with a rake.


The Hiab on the delivery truck will easily lift over that.

The garden is quite small -- about 12ftx8ft, or thereabouts. The guy
in the local builder's yard reckoned a half-ton of chippings, quite
chunky ones (10-15mm or so, by eye). Does the amount seem about right
to everyone?


About right for 18mm

What about compacting, either the earth underneath or the gravel once
laid? This garden won't be walked on often or driven on, so is
compaction necessary?


Not unless you drive/walk on it.

Finally, costs. Seems like the DIY approach will be pretty cheap -- a
decent shovel and barrow, £10 or so for the impermeable layer, and
about £35 for the chippings. Have I missed something off the list?


A back support belt if you are 40+ ! Gravel in 1 tonne bags doesn't spread
itself when you cut the bag open. You have to shovel, barrow & rake.

And
does anyone have any idea roughly what it would be cost to have the
job done by a professional? I've rung a half-dozen firms but none of
them are answering the phone.


I would charge about a days labour + gravel + weed control fabric, + a
margin on a job like this, so about £300.



--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257




The Natural Philosopher August 30th 06 01:53 AM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
MikeH wrote:
wrote:
[snip]
2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds

[snip]

Don't you want a semi-permeable barrier? It stops weeds growing but
allows drainage.

If you put down an impermeable barrier you'll get puddles unless you
arrange enough slope to ensure rainwater can run off.

Mike


And both will in time get infested with weeds anyway..dust and water
collects, and seeds, and off go the weeds.

Only sure way to stop weeds is to use pathclear every year.



The Natural Philosopher August 30th 06 01:54 AM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
Bookworm wrote:
wrote:

2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds


It is best to use woven Polypropylene sheet. It allows water through
but weeds will not come through, (though they sometimes grow in the
gravel).

They won't "come through" 4" of gravel anyway. They WILL seed in almost
anything.




[email protected] August 31st 06 11:43 AM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
Bookworm wrote:
wrote:

2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds


It is best to use woven Polypropylene sheet. It allows water through
but weeds will not come through, (though they sometimes grow in the
gravel).


I've had this before though, at a house I used to live at -- weeds in
gravel are no problem as they are very easy to pull up. Weeds rooted in
the earth are a lot harder to get at. I realise no solution will be
totally weed-free, I'm just happy to only have to weed for 5 minutes a
few times a year!


The Natural Philosopher August 31st 06 12:34 PM

General advice sought on gravelling a garden
 
wrote:
Bookworm wrote:
wrote:

2) lay impermeable plastic layer to kill weeds

It is best to use woven Polypropylene sheet. It allows water through
but weeds will not come through, (though they sometimes grow in the
gravel).


I've had this before though, at a house I used to live at -- weeds in
gravel are no problem as they are very easy to pull up. Weeds rooted in
the earth are a lot harder to get at. I realise no solution will be
totally weed-free, I'm just happy to only have to weed for 5 minutes a
few times a year!

Well thats all I do..go round with path clear once a year.

No polypropylene at all.

just a deep layer of crushed limestone and a deep layer of gravel.



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