We had new hardwood double glazed windows fitted last November and ever
since i've had to keep going round them filling cracks that have developed
in the plaster work and in the filler they used. Two of the frames have
slight play which is enough to make the crack expand by a mil or two when
they're moved with some degree of force.

The cracks don't run the entire length of the windows frame but are
haphapzard and typically within 5mm of the frame.

They made good the first time and i've been round three times, which makes
it four times by last May and it looks like they're ready for another
flexible 10% filling/painting session.

The installer has just told me that he's never known anything like this in
22 years of being in the business and would like me to send him some photos
before he commits himself to a visit, as he's not convinced it could be due
to the windows...lol.

The house is constructed of solid plastered walls.

It's a problem we never had prior to the windows being fitted and is a
complete nuisance of a job that I hadn't expected to have to do every couple
of months.

Anyone else had any experience of this type of thing or a view of what might
be causing it would be appreciated?

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:26:22 +0100, RedOnRed wrote:

Anyone else had any experience of this type of thing or a view of what
might be causing it would be appreciated?

The frames are moving, as you point out they are loose in the wall. IMHO
a timber frame from shouldn't move at all under the sort of forces a hand
can apply. Timber will also swell and contract with the seasons and
humidity this can crack plaster but such movemment is small 1/2mm or so
not several.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

RedOnRed wrote:
We had new hardwood double glazed windows fitted last November and ever
since i've had to keep going round them filling cracks that have developed
in the plaster work and in the filler they used. Two of the frames have
slight play which is enough to make the crack expand by a mil or two when
they're moved with some degree of force.

The cracks don't run the entire length of the windows frame but are
haphapzard and typically within 5mm of the frame.

They made good the first time and i've been round three times, which makes
it four times by last May and it looks like they're ready for another
flexible 10% filling/painting session.

The installer has just told me that he's never known anything like this in
22 years of being in the business and would like me to send him some photos
before he commits himself to a visit, as he's not convinced it could be due
to the windows...lol.

The house is constructed of solid plastered walls.

It's a problem we never had prior to the windows being fitted and is a
complete nuisance of a job that I hadn't expected to have to do every couple
of months.

Anyone else had any experience of this type of thing or a view of what might
be causing it would be appreciated?

Pictures would be helpful. Is it a bay window? How much of the frame
closes the cavity and how much is actually sitting in brickwork?

What do you mean the house is made of plaster?

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
oups.com...

RedOnRed wrote:
We had new hardwood double glazed windows fitted last November and ever
since i've had to keep going round them filling cracks that have
developed
in the plaster work and in the filler they used. Two of the frames have
slight play which is enough to make the crack expand by a mil or two when
they're moved with some degree of force.

The cracks don't run the entire length of the windows frame but are
haphapzard and typically within 5mm of the frame.

They made good the first time and i've been round three times, which
makes
it four times by last May and it looks like they're ready for another
flexible 10% filling/painting session.

The installer has just told me that he's never known anything like this
in
22 years of being in the business and would like me to send him some
photos
before he commits himself to a visit, as he's not convinced it could be
due
to the windows...lol.

The house is constructed of solid plastered walls.

It's a problem we never had prior to the windows being fitted and is a
complete nuisance of a job that I hadn't expected to have to do every
couple
of months.

Anyone else had any experience of this type of thing or a view of what
might
be causing it would be appreciated?

Pictures would be helpful. Is it a bay window? How much of the frame
closes the cavity and how much is actually sitting in brickwork?

What do you mean the house is made of plaster?


Although the cracking is currently noticeable when you open the windows,
it's not severe enough to appear in a digital photo.

It's not a bay window. The frame completely closes the cavity and they are
sitting on the brickwork. The walls are solid and plastered. It's not timber
framed and dry lined etc.

"RedOnRed" wrote:
We had new hardwood double glazed windows fitted last November and ever
since i've had to keep going round them filling cracks that have developed
in the plaster work and in the filler they used. Two of the frames have
slight play which is enough to make the crack expand by a mil or two when
they're moved with some degree of force.

The cracks don't run the entire length of the windows frame but are
haphapzard and typically within 5mm of the frame.

They made good the first time and i've been round three times, which makes
it four times by last May and it looks like they're ready for another
flexible 10% filling/painting session.

The installer has just told me that he's never known anything like this in
22 years of being in the business and would like me to send him some
photos before he commits himself to a visit, as he's not convinced it
could be due to the windows...lol.

The house is constructed of solid plastered walls.

It's a problem we never had prior to the windows being fitted and is a
complete nuisance of a job that I hadn't expected to have to do every
couple of months.

Anyone else had any experience of this type of thing or a view of what
might be causing it would be appreciated?

Regarding the two frames that move, movement of the window frames could
cause plaster to crack. The frames shouldn't move. Why didn't the fitter fix
this when they made good the first time? Regarding cracking of plaster
around frames that don't move, there are a number of causes of this, some of
which can relate to the damage caused by the removal of old windows frames
and fitting new ones, and some of which have nothing to do with your new
windows. Without being able to see the property it is difficult to say. You
could ask a builder/plasterer for an estimate of the cost of repair to see
what they think is causing these cracks. It is a waste of time repeatedly
filling and painting if the cause is not found and dealt with.

"RedOnRed" wrote:
We had new hardwood double glazed windows fitted last November and ever
since i've had to keep going round them filling cracks that have developed
in the plaster work and in the filler they used. Two of the frames have
slight play which is enough to make the crack expand by a mil or two when
they're moved with some degree of force.

The cracks don't run the entire length of the windows frame but are
haphapzard and typically within 5mm of the frame.

They made good the first time and i've been round three times, which makes
it four times by last May and it looks like they're ready for another
flexible 10% filling/painting session.

The installer has just told me that he's never known anything like this in
22 years of being in the business and would like me to send him some
photos before he commits himself to a visit, as he's not convinced it
could be due to the windows...lol.

The house is constructed of solid plastered walls.

It's a problem we never had prior to the windows being fitted and is a
complete nuisance of a job that I hadn't expected to have to do every
couple of months.

Anyone else had any experience of this type of thing or a view of what
might be causing it would be appreciated?

When you tap the areas of plaster that are subject to cracking, with the
blunt handle end of a screwdriver, does it sound hollow and different to the
sound when tapping others areas of plaster away from the windows? If so, the
plaster near the new frames has come loose from the underlying masonry and
needs to be hacked off and repaired.

"Phil Anthropist" wrote in message
...
"RedOnRed" wrote:
We had new hardwood double glazed windows fitted last November and ever
since i've had to keep going round them filling cracks that have
developed in the plaster work and in the filler they used. Two of the
frames have slight play which is enough to make the crack expand by a mil
or two when they're moved with some degree of force.

The cracks don't run the entire length of the windows frame but are
haphapzard and typically within 5mm of the frame.

They made good the first time and i've been round three times, which
makes it four times by last May and it looks like they're ready for
another flexible 10% filling/painting session.

The installer has just told me that he's never known anything like this
in 22 years of being in the business and would like me to send him some
photos before he commits himself to a visit, as he's not convinced it
could be due to the windows...lol.

The house is constructed of solid plastered walls.

It's a problem we never had prior to the windows being fitted and is a
complete nuisance of a job that I hadn't expected to have to do every
couple of months.

Anyone else had any experience of this type of thing or a view of what
might be causing it would be appreciated?

Regarding the two frames that move, movement of the window frames could
cause plaster to crack. The frames shouldn't move. Why didn't the fitter
fix this when they made good the first time? Regarding cracking of plaster
around frames that don't move, there are a number of causes of this, some
of which can relate to the damage caused by the removal of old windows
frames and fitting new ones, and some of which have nothing to do with
your new windows. Without being able to see the property it is difficult
to say. You could ask a builder/plasterer for an estimate of the cost of
repair to see what they think is causing these cracks. It is a waste of
time repeatedly filling and painting if the cause is not found and dealt
with.

Cheers, an independent quote is a good suggestion that I was considering
myself.

Despite having a 10 year guarantee, the installers initial reaction is to
think of every reason possible why his windows shouldn't be causing it and
blame my property.

He has blamed the weather - but it was occuring during the winter too.

Dry lining and timber framed construction - I have neither.

Subsidence - no evidence of that.

At the moment there's slight play on at least two windows and a screw head
that's sheard off. So i'll somehow get them in to deal with those and get
them to inspect the cracking too.

"Phil Anthropist" wrote in message
...
"RedOnRed" wrote:
We had new hardwood double glazed windows fitted last November and ever
since i've had to keep going round them filling cracks that have
developed in the plaster work and in the filler they used. Two of the
frames have slight play which is enough to make the crack expand by a mil
or two when they're moved with some degree of force.

The cracks don't run the entire length of the windows frame but are
haphapzard and typically within 5mm of the frame.

They made good the first time and i've been round three times, which
makes it four times by last May and it looks like they're ready for
another flexible 10% filling/painting session.

The installer has just told me that he's never known anything like this
in 22 years of being in the business and would like me to send him some
photos before he commits himself to a visit, as he's not convinced it
could be due to the windows...lol.

The house is constructed of solid plastered walls.

It's a problem we never had prior to the windows being fitted and is a
complete nuisance of a job that I hadn't expected to have to do every
couple of months.

Anyone else had any experience of this type of thing or a view of what
might be causing it would be appreciated?

When you tap the areas of plaster that are subject to cracking, with the
blunt handle end of a screwdriver, does it sound hollow and different to
the sound when tapping others areas of plaster away from the windows? If
so, the plaster near the new frames has come loose from the underlying
masonry and needs to be hacked off and repaired.

Yes, some of the plasterwork that is cracking does seem to be making a
hollow noise when tapped, but i've also noticed that plasterwork that shows
no evidence of cracking is also making the noise too.

"RedOnRed" wrote:
Cheers, an independent quote is a good suggestion that I was considering
myself.

Despite having a 10 year guarantee, the installers initial reaction is to
think of every reason possible why his windows shouldn't be causing it and
blame my property.

He has blamed the weather - but it was occuring during the winter too.

Dry lining and timber framed construction - I have neither.

Subsidence - no evidence of that.

At the moment there's slight play on at least two windows and a screw head
that's sheard off. So i'll somehow get them in to deal with those and get
them to inspect the cracking too.

Double glazing guarantees are often limited as to what they cover. For
example, the sealed units are often guaranteed against misting for 10 years,
and the window and door handles are often guaranteed for 2 years. That may
be all that is mentioned in their written guarantee. What does your
guarantee cover? You are entitled to a satisfactory standard of work under
the Sale of Goods Act, so that would include satisfactory installation of
the window frames. This company's reluctance to turn you into a satisfied
customer doesn't look promising. Trading Standards may help.

"RedOnRed" wrote:
Yes, some of the plasterwork that is cracking does seem to be making a
hollow noise when tapped, but i've also noticed that plasterwork that
shows no evidence of cracking is also making the noise too.

Sounds like plenty of work for a plasterer.

RedOnRed wrote:
"Phil Anthropist" wrote in message

When you tap the areas of plaster that are subject to cracking, with the
blunt handle end of a screwdriver, does it sound hollow and different to
the sound when tapping others areas of plaster away from the windows? If
so, the plaster near the new frames has come loose from the underlying
masonry and needs to be hacked off and repaired.

Yes, some of the plasterwork that is cracking does seem to be making a
hollow noise when tapped, but i've also noticed that plasterwork that shows
no evidence of cracking is also making the noise too.

problem located, replastering time.

NT