I am running oil pipes under a gravel drive where people walk and cars
drive. I was going to put the copper pipe inside some spare MDPE mains
water pipe I've got so it should be well protected.

How shallow a trench could I get away with?

It's not (just) that I'm lazy, I'm also trying to avoid damaging some
propane lines which also run through the same ground. I will have to
cross them at some point. Hopefully they will be buried quite deep.

Cheers

Nick.

NickW wrote:

I am running oil pipes under a gravel drive where people walk and cars
drive. I was going to put the copper pipe inside some spare MDPE mains
water pipe I've got so it should be well protected.

How shallow a trench could I get away with?

It's not (just) that I'm lazy, I'm also trying to avoid damaging some
propane lines which also run through the same ground. I will have to
cross them at some point. Hopefully they will be buried quite deep.



Mine go down about 8 inches. But don't get a lot of traffic. The secret
is to use sand or fine pea shingle in teh trench to spread the load
evenly to avoid crushing. Then top up with MOT type 1, and then your
surface layer.

If you are going to take 30 ton lorries over the top on a regular basis,
I'd go deeper, maybe 15", or fill the trench with concrete, or arrange
some sort of lintel over the top.

The basic thing is to reduce the local tons-per-square-inch by spreading
the load out. MOT type one does this, but needs to be deep to spread the
load wide.

My builder had the bright idea of running them in scaffold tubes. Kinked
the pipe and fractured it drawing it through. Had to dig it all up
again. However, if you have a brain slightly more advanced than the
average Gibbon, it could be a thought.





Cheers

Nick.

On 8 Jul 2003 02:01:29 -0700, (NickW) wrote:

I am running oil pipes under a gravel drive where people walk and cars
drive. I was going to put the copper pipe inside some spare MDPE mains
water pipe I've got so it should be well protected.

How shallow a trench could I get away with?

It's not (just) that I'm lazy, I'm also trying to avoid damaging some
propane lines which also run through the same ground. I will have to
cross them at some point. Hopefully they will be buried quite deep.


A neighbour had shallow oil pipes and in the big freeze Winter 95
whilst sunnying in the Caribbean the oil stopped flowing, the boiler
went out, the radiators froze and cracked then the thaw came and they
came home to massive damage.


--
TonyL

Tony Lewis wrote:

On 8 Jul 2003 02:01:29 -0700, (NickW) wrote:


I am running oil pipes under a gravel drive where people walk and cars
drive. I was going to put the copper pipe inside some spare MDPE mains
water pipe I've got so it should be well protected.

How shallow a trench could I get away with?

It's not (just) that I'm lazy, I'm also trying to avoid damaging some
propane lines which also run through the same ground. I will have to
cross them at some point. Hopefully they will be buried quite deep.



A neighbour had shallow oil pipes and in the big freeze Winter 95
whilst sunnying in the Caribbean the oil stopped flowing, the boiler
went out, the radiators froze and cracked then the thaw came and they
came home to massive damage.




Yes, but they can more easily freeze above ground....

"NickW" wrote in message
om...
I am running oil pipes under a gravel drive where people walk and cars
drive. I was going to put the copper pipe inside some spare MDPE mains
water pipe I've got so it should be well protected.

How shallow a trench could I get away with?

It's not (just) that I'm lazy, I'm also trying to avoid damaging some
propane lines which also run through the same ground. I will have to
cross them at some point. Hopefully they will be buried quite deep.


There are standards in force for oil pipe installations which are laid down
by OFTEC in conjunction with the Building Regs. Basically since the
installation of heating systems came under building control OFTEC standards
should be applied. take a look at the OFTEC website www.oftec.org
Annex 12 to book three gives information about burying pipes in trenches
and I'm sure you will be delighted to learn that the trench should be 450mm
deep, a layer of sand 40mm thick laid down, the pipe laid on that and
covered with another 40mm layer of sand before backfilling the trench but
with a marker tape buried in the backfill material 150mm down. Any joints
in the underground section of pipe should be provided with an access
chamber for maintenance.

I'll bet you really wanted to know that didn't you?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Tony Lewis wrote:

On 8 Jul 2003 02:01:29 -0700, (NickW) wrote:


I am running oil pipes under a gravel drive where people walk and cars
drive. I was going to put the copper pipe inside some spare MDPE mains
water pipe I've got so it should be well protected.

How shallow a trench could I get away with?

It's not (just) that I'm lazy, I'm also trying to avoid damaging some
propane lines which also run through the same ground. I will have to
cross them at some point. Hopefully they will be buried quite deep.



A neighbour had shallow oil pipes and in the big freeze Winter 95
whilst sunnying in the Caribbean the oil stopped flowing, the boiler
went out, the radiators froze and cracked then the thaw came and they
came home to massive damage.




Yes, but they can more easily freeze above ground....


I doubt if kerosine froze this side of the artic circle, but the presence
of water in a low part of the piperun may have formed an ice plug which
blocked off the flow of kerosine.

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...
Mine go down about 8 inches. But don't get a lot of traffic. The secret
is to use sand or fine pea shingle in teh trench to spread the load
evenly to avoid crushing. Then top up with MOT type 1, and then your
surface layer.

8'' - that's good enough for me. Maybe I'll make it 10'' to be on the
safe side, it will only get the occaisonal car driving over it. I
haven't heard of MOT type 1 but I shall try to get some. I was going
to use sharp sand as well in case a big stone managed to penetrate the
MDPE pipe and pierce the copper.


My builder had the bright idea of running them in scaffold tubes. Kinked
the pipe and fractured it drawing it through. Had to dig it all up
again. However, if you have a brain slightly more advanced than the
average Gibbon, it could be a thought.

Oops. TBH, I think MDPE pipe would do the job just as well as scaffold
tubes, it's very tough stuff. I'm hoping the MDPE pipe will not allow
kinking because it is very stiff and likes to follow gentle curves so
it will guide the pipe smoothly.

My copper pipe arrives this weekend. I already have a Danesmore
Worcester 20/25 boiler sitting in my garage. I'm running the pipe from
the existing pool heating oil tank to the house. (The pool is now
heated by solar BTW). Work work work.

Nick

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:35:34 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Tony Lewis wrote:

On 8 Jul 2003 02:01:29 -0700, (NickW) wrote:


I am running oil pipes under a gravel drive where people walk and cars
drive. I was going to put the copper pipe inside some spare MDPE mains
water pipe I've got so it should be well protected.

How shallow a trench could I get away with?

It's not (just) that I'm lazy, I'm also trying to avoid damaging some
propane lines which also run through the same ground. I will have to
cross them at some point. Hopefully they will be buried quite deep.



A neighbour had shallow oil pipes and in the big freeze Winter 95
whilst sunnying in the Caribbean the oil stopped flowing, the boiler
went out, the radiators froze and cracked then the thaw came and they
came home to massive damage.




Yes, but they can more easily freeze above ground....


I doubt if kerosine froze this side of the artic circle, but the presence
of water in a low part of the piperun may have formed an ice plug which
blocked off the flow of kerosine.


I don't believe that was the case though plausible. That winter was
pretty severe with pretty low temperatures for several days, certainly
in the East Midlands.


--
TonyL

but presumably less easily deeper below ground, which was my point.
Above ground external would be lagged?

Underground is a pretty constant temperature. I believe that a meter
down is a steady 10C or something all year round. I think sub zero
temperatures only penetrate any distance underground in very cold
countries - ie: permafrost.

This is why mains water supplies don't freeze I guess.

Nick

On 9 Jul 2003 23:58:57 -0700, (NickW) wrote:

Underground is a pretty constant temperature. I believe that a meter
down is a steady 10C or something all year round.

I wonder if you could somehow exploit that to get a slight cooling
effect in our UK summers? I suspect A/C is slightly over the top given
the short while we'd get the benefits, and it also eats a lot of
power. And can be noisy in smaller units I have seen mentioned.

Something using that "natural cool" might make it more comfortable
than without but not as OTT as full on AC.

No idea how you'd figure it out, but it seems someone probably should!

Sort of underground radiator/ heat exchanging mechanism of some kind -
link back to CH even? Small fan to stir it into room air?

Failing that, what about getting garden water features in on the act?
Must be some sort of evap process that could be exploited and then
made to look decorative into the bargain?

Can you guess it's a hot one here today? ;O)

Take Care,
Gnube

I recently did exactly the same job, and laid the line inside 2 Inch
plastic duct.The depth was about 8" and i packed rough sand around the
pipe.It goes across my drive as well and i've had traffic on it, so far
so good.The only thing i was told was not to put it inside water pipe
because if you have workmen in in your later years and they start doing
any digging they might cut through it."I think it's against the rules
anyway.



"NickW" wrote in message
om

I am running oil pipes under a gravel drive where people walk and cars
drive. I was going to put the copper pipe inside some spare MDPE mains
water pipe I've got so it should be well protected.

How shallow a trench could I get away with?

It's not (just) that I'm lazy, I'm also trying to avoid damaging some
propane lines which also run through the same ground. I will have to
cross them at some point. Hopefully they will be buried quite deep.

Cheers

Nick.




--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Gnube wrote in message . ..
On 9 Jul 2003 23:58:57 -0700, (NickW) wrote:

Underground is a pretty constant temperature. I believe that a meter
down is a steady 10C or something all year round.

I wonder if you could somehow exploit that to get a slight cooling
effect in our UK summers? I suspect A/C is slightly over the top given

You certainly can. I've seen people who use it to cool their
overclocked PC's and all sorts of silly things.

Ground sourced heat pumps also use this constant temperature to draw
heat from. Air sourced heat pumps tend to get ice on them and need to
stop for a while to defrost.

Nick

replying to NickW, MichaelDavid70 wrote:
According to OFTEC it should be 40mm compacted sand in bottom 40mm compacted
sand over the top and warning tape 150mm below surface

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...pipes-918-.htm

On 24/09/17 18:14, MichaelDavid70 wrote:
replying to NickW, MichaelDavid70 wrote:
According to OFTEC it should be 40mm compacted sand in bottom 40mm
compacted
sand over the top and warning tape 150mmÂ* below surface


posted on July 8, 2003????



--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

What the post was that new? I was expecting it was from around the turn of
the century, and it was an archaeologist trying to find out stuff.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 24/09/17 18:14, MichaelDavid70 wrote:
replying to NickW, MichaelDavid70 wrote:
According to OFTEC it should be 40mm compacted sand in bottom 40mm
compacted
sand over the top and warning tape 150mm below surface


posted on July 8, 2003????



--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly