Need to replace a worn out cylinder lock (yes, conclusion of the ongoing
3-year front door refurb - qv!)

Didn't realise there were so many options to choose from: apparently I
can have it in brass, satin chrome or polished chrome (or anything
else?): http://tinyurl.com/pc75k or
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/searchresults.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&howMany=15&searchText=yale+replacement&x=7&y=5

Is the choice purely cosmetic (if so I don't care), or is one any better
than others in terms of durability etc?

Ta
David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Need to replace a worn out cylinder lock (yes, conclusion of the ongoing
3-year front door refurb - qv!)

Didn't realise there were so many options to choose from: apparently I can
have it in brass, satin chrome or polished chrome (or anything else?):
http://tinyurl.com/pc75k or
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/searchresults.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&howMany=15&searchText=yale+replacement&x=7&y=5

Is the choice purely cosmetic (if so I don't care), or is one any better
than others in terms of durability etc?

The Yale 1109 cylinder is the most basic one you can buy and the differences
are purely cosmetic. The Yale X-Tech series would be a better choice. Best
would be to fit a complete XBS nightlatch, which is BS 3621 kite marked.

Colin Bignell

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:43:59 UTC, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my
surname here.uk.com wrote:

The Yale 1109 cylinder is the most basic one you can buy and the differences
are purely cosmetic. The Yale X-Tech series would be a better choice. Best
would be to fit a complete XBS nightlatch, which is BS 3621 kite marked.

We've been told that even the latter is as much use as a chocolate
teapot. No rationale yet, though..

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:43:59 UTC, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my
surname here.uk.com wrote:

The Yale 1109 cylinder is the most basic one you can buy and the
differences
are purely cosmetic. The Yale X-Tech series would be a better choice.
Best
would be to fit a complete XBS nightlatch, which is BS 3621 kite marked.

We've been told that even the latter is as much use as a chocolate
teapot. No rationale yet, though..

It is good for a rim lock. Ideally, you don't fit a rim lock at all, but a
BS 3621 mortise lock at each of 1/3 and 2/3 of the door height. However, I
was presuming that, if he was looking at the 1109, the OP was not wanting
the no cost spared option..

Colin Bignell

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...

The problem with mortice locks is that

(a) they're a complete faff to lock and unlock, needing a key even from
inside

Oh come ON! It's nbot rocket science and you don't need to be Mr Universe!

(b) the keys are the size of Tunisia

Don't be silly.

(c) If you have a fire in the night, your children will end up as frazzled
blackened balls pressed against the locked door

No such luck.

Mary

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:03:24 UTC, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

The problem with mortice locks is that

(a) they're a complete faff to lock and unlock, needing a key even from
inside
(b) the keys are the size of Tunisia

I would generally agree. But we have a nice 6 pin Yale cylinder mortice
on one door...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

(a) they're a complete faff to lock and unlock, needing a key even from
inside

Oh come ON! It's nbot rocket science and you don't need to be Mr Universe!

I really can't be bothered to find my keys just to take the rubbish out or
answer the door.

(b) the keys are the size of Tunisia

Don't be silly.

It doesn't matter for the wimmin, with their handbags. My keys go in my
pocket and a Yale cylinder key is much more comfortable than a Chubb mortice
one.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
(a) they're a complete faff to lock and unlock, needing a key even from
inside

Oh come ON! It's nbot rocket science and you don't need to be Mr
Universe!

I really can't be bothered to find my keys just to take the rubbish out or
answer the door.

Funnily enough that's exactly the reason I go for a chubb mortice type lock
rather than a yale type one.

If I was the nervous door locking type, I'd be using a bolt/chain for when I
was in the house, rather than actually locking the thing.

cheers,
clive

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:34:57 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
had this to say:

(a) they're a complete faff to lock and unlock, needing a key even from
inside

Oh come ON! It's nbot rocket science and you don't need to be Mr Universe!

I really can't be bothered to find my keys just to take the rubbish out or
answer the door.

(b) the keys are the size of Tunisia

Don't be silly.

It doesn't matter for the wimmin, with their handbags. My keys go in my
pocket and a Yale cylinder key is much more comfortable than a Chubb mortice
one.

A cylinder key is much more likely to wear a hole in your pocket,
though.

--
Frank Erskine

Clive George wrote:
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
(a) they're a complete faff to lock and unlock, needing a key even from
inside

[...]

Funnily enough that's exactly the reason I go for a chubb mortice type lock
rather than a yale type one.

If I was the nervous door locking type, I'd be using a bolt/chain for when I
was in the house, rather than actually locking the thing.


I have mortice lock on front and back doors, together with a
bog-standard Yale-style (night latch?) on the front. I used to lock the
front mortice - reasoning that an openable-without-key front door would
be rather handy for a burgular (thinking ease of removing heavy stuff,
compared to a broken window).

Then house guests warned me of the possible difficulty of finding the
key etc. in a fire emergency. From then on, I use just the bolt and
chain.

Any comments? Same goes for window locks all round; I used to hide the
keys, now I leave them in a reasonably accessable place (from the
inside). I'm pretty sure all this raises an important health-and-safety
issue - though when I mentioned this before, nobody agreed.

Best regards,

Jon C.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
I really can't be bothered to find my keys just to take the rubbish out
or
answer the door.

Funnily enough that's exactly the reason I go for a chubb mortice type
lock
rather than a yale type one.

Er, but you need a key to open a chubb mortice, whilst a yale can be
opened
without one. How do you find the opposite?

You don't need a key to open it if it isn't locked - like I said elsewhere,
a bolt/chain provides the security should you need it while you're in the
house.

OTOH if when I'm taking the rubbish out the door shuts behind me, I don't
need to have my keys with me to get it open again. I've always hated that
about yale type locks. Ok, you can put the latch/whatever on, but that's
just an extra layer of faff to forget about - and I will...

cheers,
clive

Any comments? Same goes for window locks all round; I used to hide the
keys, now I leave them in a reasonably accessable place (from the
inside). I'm pretty sure all this raises an important health-and-safety
issue - though when I mentioned this before, nobody agreed.

I prefer to keep doors and windows openable in an emergency. My laptop can
be replaced. Children and wives are less easy. The Yale lock can be locked
so that the handle is disabled. I do this when leaving the house empty for a
while. What would be good is that this mode could be invoked without the use
of a key, as I would do it much more often. Even better if the mode was
disabled when the door was next unlocked.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
Ok, you can put the latch/whatever on, but that's just an
extra layer of faff to forget about - and I will...

Putting the latch on the PBS1 is very easy, you just press the button as
you
turn the lever. If the door is already open and you can't be bothered to
turn the lever, simultaneously pressing the bolt in and pressing the latch
button works well. It is certainly less work than moving a bolt or
unhooking
a chain. It is also has much better security than either.

Maybe - hut I'd still fail to do it at some point.

If I'm in the house, which is the situation we're talking about here, I
think the security provided by a bolt + chain should be enough. When away
from the house, there's proper mortice locks for security.

cheers,
clive

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:29:41 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
had this to say:

Any comments? Same goes for window locks all round; I used to hide the
keys, now I leave them in a reasonably accessable place (from the
inside). I'm pretty sure all this raises an important health-and-safety
issue - though when I mentioned this before, nobody agreed.

I prefer to keep doors and windows openable in an emergency. My laptop can
be replaced. Children and wives are less easy.

How many wives have you got?

:-)

--
Frank Erskine

nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
"Lobster" wrote in message
...

Need to replace a worn out cylinder lock (yes, conclusion of the ongoing
3-year front door refurb - qv!)

Didn't realise there were so many options to choose from: apparently I can
have it in brass, satin chrome or polished chrome (or anything else?):
http://tinyurl.com/pc75k or
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/searchresults.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&howMany=15&searchText=yale+replacement&x=7&y=5

Is the choice purely cosmetic (if so I don't care), or is one any better
than others in terms of durability etc?

The Yale 1109 cylinder is the most basic one you can buy and the differences
are purely cosmetic. The Yale X-Tech series would be a better choice. Best
would be to fit a complete XBS nightlatch, which is BS 3621 kite marked.

Clearly far more options than I'd realised...

Does the X-Tech and XBS bit refer to the lock itself or the cylinder
part, or both? Really I'm just wanting to replace a worn cylinder, for
which I know the 1109 is a like-for-like replacement. Are the X-Tech
and XBS ones similarly?

If not, does anyone know if the hole in the door would be in the same
place for all these locks, or would it need 'moving' (which is not
likely to happen!)?

Thanks
David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Need to replace a worn out cylinder lock (yes, conclusion of the ongoing
3-year front door refurb - qv!)

Didn't realise there were so many options to choose from: apparently I can
have it in brass, satin chrome or polished chrome (or anything else?):
http://tinyurl.com/pc75k or
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/searchresults.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&howMany=15&searchText=yale+replacement&x=7&y=5

Is the choice purely cosmetic (if so I don't care), or is one any better
than others in terms of durability etc?

By all means fit another cylinder, don't buy junk. virtually no security
though.
The ideal is a mortice lock with a 6 pin cylinder with thumbturn on the
inside fitted with security escutcheons.
To conform to Insurance requirements they have to conform to certain
standards, ie bought as a set.
Find a locksmith.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
It is good for a rim lock. Ideally, you don't fit a rim lock at all, but
a
BS 3621 mortise lock at each of 1/3 and 2/3 of the door height.

It's not really a rim lock, as rim locks are entirely surface mounted, so
can be kicked off. On the PBS1, the lock wraps around the edge of the door
and the main mounting screws drive into the door through the edge, giving
much better strength.

Even the old warded rim locks that adorn Victorian interior doors and that
would yield to a hair grip usually had screws through a plate over the door
edge. If it mounts on the surface of the door, it is, by definition, a rim
lock.

OK, maybe not quite as much strength as a mortice, but
getting there. You will almost certainly lose the hinges before the lock
in
a kicking attack, I would have thought.

More important is the strength of the door frame and the latch plate fitted
to it. That will usually give before the door or the lock or, if you have
the recommended pair and a half of 100mm long metal hinges, the hinges.

The problem with mortice locks is that

(a) they're a complete faff to lock and unlock, needing a key even from
inside

Not necessarily, although it is more secure not to have a thumb turn on the
inside.

(b) the keys are the size of Tunisia

Mine is about 3mm longer than the Yale rim lock key, because it has an extra
pin in the cylinder, but is otherwise similar in size.

(c) If you have a fire in the night, your children will end up as frazzled
blackened balls pressed against the locked door

Generally, you need most security during the day, particularly when the
house is unoccupied. At night, I use a BS 3621 nightlatch and some very
heavy duty draw bolts. However, the safest route out of most houses in a
fire is through the window; hallways are easily blocked by smoke. An adult
can hang from the window and only have a relatively small drop, while
children might benefit from a flexible window escape ladder.

Colin Bignell

wrote:

I have mortice lock on front and back doors, together with a
bog-standard Yale-style (night latch?) on the front. I used to lock the
front mortice - reasoning that an openable-without-key front door would
be rather handy for a burgular (thinking ease of removing heavy stuff,
compared to a broken window).

Then house guests warned me of the possible difficulty of finding the
key etc. in a fire emergency. From then on, I use just the bolt and
chain.

Get a mortice with turn button on the inside. This covers the fire
escape requirement though it does loose the option of deadlocking to
prevent the burglars easy escape.

Personally I have one mortice with key both sides to lock when I am out.
A mortice with turn button to lock if inside, and a key on the outside.
Plus a night latch, to for general convenience.

They are all operated by the same key: as small as a cylinder type but
with holes down the side rather than a serrated edge so kinder to
pockets (Not so useful for opening parcels though).


--
David Clark
http://www.publishing.ucl.ac.uk
$replyto = 'an.rnser.is.reqird'

Christian McArdle wrote:
If not, does anyone know if the hole in the door would be in the same
place for all these locks, or would it need 'moving' (which is not
likely to happen!)?


Measure the distance from the edge of the door to the centre of the hole for
the outside key. These days there are two standard widths, 40mm and 60mm. I
fitted a PBS2 to my mother's back door recently. The lock it replaced (which
was marked in imperial) had been there at least since I can remember, which
would have been about 1978. The 40mm fitted perfectly, so I suspect these
have been standard sizes for decades.

Great - looks like it's 60mm.

Thanks
David